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6V6 & Heathkit W5m Peerless 16309 Output Transformer

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Posted on January 18, 2017 at 08:46:16
sony6060
Audiophile

Posts: 1465
Location: USA
Joined: August 8, 2014
 The PPP 6V6 amp posted a week ago is for my son.
I am building a PP 6V6 triode connected amp for myself. What do you think of the Peerless 16309? Any experience? It is the 'smaller' nickel core stripe transformer used on the Heathkit W5m amp.

 

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RE: Should be more than fine, posted on January 18, 2017 at 15:28:55
Russ57
Audiophile

Posts: 3754
Location: South Florida
Joined: November 16, 2001
 PP 6V6's (trioded connected and run in strict class A1 operation) will give you about two watts. Those transformers will handle a good bit more and have value.

You can get a pair of Silk 10K:8 ohm at a reasonable price. I make do with Hammond's on my triode connected PP 6V6 amp. I used the Raytheon 6cg7's, which I regret talking about, as I now can't find any:(

 

RE: Should be more than fine, posted on January 18, 2017 at 15:45:30
sony6060
Audiophile

Posts: 1465
Location: USA
Joined: August 8, 2014
 PP 6V6 at 310 volt plate gives 6 watts output with 8K ohm plate to plate audio transformer.

 

RE: 6V6 & Heathkit W5m Peerless 16309 Output Transformer, posted on January 18, 2017 at 16:00:01
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 Jim
The 16309 is one of the best sounding transformers ever made.If you look at a Heathkit W-5m in stock form and look at the specs,the high bandwidth and low distortion rivals the best amps ever made IMHO.I just don't get running the output stage in class A to get two watts and lose all headroom and waste half your power. Of course,I don't believe in taking a tube that was designed to run in tetrode,or a tube that was designed to run in pentode, and then running it in triode either.There are plenty of great triodes such as the 6B4G and 2A3 for that purpose.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: 6V6 & Heathkit W5m Peerless 16309 Output Transformer, posted on January 18, 2017 at 16:21:10
sony6060
Audiophile

Posts: 1465
Location: USA
Joined: August 8, 2014
 I tried a PP 45 amp built identical to a PP 6V6 triode connected amp. Everything the same and the 6V6 sounded better. The 6V6 sounded more immediate & engaging plus had the same clarity of the 45 amp. The PP 45 amp was very smooth sounding and clear.

After rolling a lot of 6V6 tubes only the Sylvania 6V6G or Sylvania 7C5 sounded great. Both tubes had the same oval plate. Later Sylvania had a different plate that was part oval and had a box shape at the ends.

 

RE: 6V6 & Heathkit W5m Peerless 16309 Output Transformer, posted on January 18, 2017 at 17:18:27
Eli Duttman
Audiophile

Posts: 10455
Location: Monroe Township, NJ
Joined: March 31, 2000
 Those "pure" oval plate tubes were manufactured in the same time frame. For the best of reasons, starting with money, Sylvania used the same "cages" in both the 6V6 and 7C5.

Folks other than myself have stated that triode wired 6V6s are as good as it gets, with the possible exception of the #45, in this power range


Eli D.

 

RE: Should be more than fine, posted on January 18, 2017 at 18:00:13
Eli Duttman
Audiophile

Posts: 10455
Location: Monroe Township, NJ
Joined: March 31, 2000
 You are running a near ("shallow") Class "A" operating point. When peak power is being produced, the tubes cut off (alternately). FWIW, I like to state Class "Ab1". Poinz did some fine work on the "Musical Machine".


Eli D.

 

RE: Should be more than fine, posted on January 18, 2017 at 18:41:20
sony6060
Audiophile

Posts: 1465
Location: USA
Joined: August 8, 2014
 I had to look up FWIW. For what it is worth.

 

RE: 6V6 & Heathkit W5m Peerless 16309 Output Transformer, posted on January 18, 2017 at 20:26:13
Steve O
Audiophile

Posts: 12359
Location: SE MI
Joined: September 6, 2001
 The 16309 is quite good. I built an experimental class A PP #45 amp using this OPT. Used a 6J5 input direct coupled to a 6BL7 LTP to drive it. Only good for 4-6 W but open loop response was +0, -1dB ~10Hz-80KHz. I think you'll like 309 with triode strapped 6V6s.

Interestingly, another very good OPT was the Heath 51-29 as used in UA1/2, AA151 and others. Probably much less dear than a 309.

 

RE: 6V6 & Heathkit W5m Peerless 16309 Output Transformer, posted on January 19, 2017 at 03:46:43
hifipaul
Audiophile

Posts: 735
Location: NY
Joined: December 22, 2008
PPP means; push pull parallel. In said condition you need a xfmr with half the Z you are using. 16309 is a 10Kohm xfmr. PPP 6v6s need about 4-5Kohm.

Also, what is the total Ip. More than 120ma will exceed the design of the 16309s; that's 30ma/tube. You can exceed that by 10-15% but somewhere along the line you will run into overheating problems.

 

RE: 6V6 & Heathkit W5m Peerless 16309 Output Transformer, posted on January 19, 2017 at 06:39:10
sony6060
Audiophile

Posts: 1465
Location: USA
Joined: August 8, 2014
 PPP 6V6 is completed with Dynaco ST-70 transformers. This is a new PP 6V6 build with Heathkit W5m transformers.

 

RE: 6V6 & Heathkit W5m Peerless 16309 Output Transformer, posted on January 19, 2017 at 17:38:20
used-hifi
Audiophile

Posts: 1100
Location: Surprise AZ
Joined: March 18, 2003
 6v6 tubes suck you dont want those :)

rolls eyes :

 

RE: 6V6 & Heathkit W5m Peerless 16309 Output Transformer, posted on January 19, 2017 at 17:42:20
sony6060
Audiophile

Posts: 1465
Location: USA
Joined: August 8, 2014
 6V6 triode is better than 45 tubes. Like others stated, 6V6 triode are great. You must have had some really bad 6V6 amps with tiny open frame audio transformers.

 

RE: 6V6 & Heathkit W5m Peerless 16309 Output Transformer, posted on January 19, 2017 at 17:56:01
used-hifi
Audiophile

Posts: 1100
Location: Surprise AZ
Joined: March 18, 2003
 Sony this was a Joke! the point was that THEY DONT SUCK lol



sorry guys just little levity


Lawrence

 

RE: 6V6 & Heathkit W5m Peerless 16309 Output Transformer, posted on January 19, 2017 at 18:01:00
sony6060
Audiophile

Posts: 1465
Location: USA
Joined: August 8, 2014
 Oh, thought you believed 6V6 suck. 6V6 can suck in a lousy amp like any tube can in a lousy amp.

I suspect this 6V6 amp is going to be great with the Peerless 16309 audio transformers.

 

RE: 6V6 & Heathkit W5m Peerless 16309 Output Transformer, posted on January 19, 2017 at 18:02:26
used-hifi
Audiophile

Posts: 1100
Location: Surprise AZ
Joined: March 18, 2003
 How much power do you project out of a PP 6v6 amplifier?


Lawrence

 

RE: 6V6 & Heathkit W5m Peerless 16309 Output Transformer, posted on January 19, 2017 at 18:04:51
sony6060
Audiophile

Posts: 1465
Location: USA
Joined: August 8, 2014
 6 watts RMS triode out, 12 watts RMS tetrode out. Have not decided if I will install a triode/tetrode switch.

 

RE: 6V6 & Heathkit W5m Peerless 16309 Output Transformer, posted on January 19, 2017 at 18:14:06
used-hifi
Audiophile

Posts: 1100
Location: Surprise AZ
Joined: March 18, 2003
 man if i could get an honest 20 watts i would build one myself

but I dont want to parallel tubes either


Lawrence

 

Why not build 6V6 Triode, posted on January 19, 2017 at 18:25:01
sony6060
Audiophile

Posts: 1465
Location: USA
Joined: August 8, 2014
 8x 6V6 per channel is 24 watts triode & 48 watts tetrode. 6V6G tubes are so expensive, but you can buy Sylvania CHS 7C5 (same Sylvania 6V6G tube). Do not buy non CHS Sylvania 7C5.

The Sylvania CHS 7C5 & Sylvania 6V6G are the best sounding 6V6 ever made. In fact, I would not consider other brands. NOS 7C5 show up on ebay for $10 per tube,

 

RE: 20 Watts Triode, posted on January 19, 2017 at 18:40:06
sony6060
Audiophile

Posts: 1465
Location: USA
Joined: August 8, 2014
 I have an idea. The metal 6L6 is the most linear 6L6 ever made. The 6L6G 6L6GB & 6L6GC are different tubes and not as linear. The 6L6 metal tube is similar to 6V6 in triode. At 350 volts plate you would get close to 20 watts in triode. Fixed bias is about -27 volts. Perhaps 18 watts. Change 5965 to a 6SN7 or a cheaper 7N7. Use another 7N7 to drive both phase splitters.

 

RE: 20 Watts Triode, posted on January 19, 2017 at 20:02:28
used-hifi
Audiophile

Posts: 1100
Location: Surprise AZ
Joined: March 18, 2003
 if we could talk/email outside the forum that would be great!

lawrenceharasim@gmail.com

 

RE: Michael- Peerless 16309 Output Transformer Power Output, posted on January 21, 2017 at 11:29:03
sony6060
Audiophile

Posts: 1465
Location: USA
Joined: August 8, 2014
 In the Heathkit W5m manual it shows the power output at different levels in a graph. At 15 watts and higher distortion is too high to accurately measure output per Heathkit. I believe this is a great 12 watt tetrode or 6 watt triode connected tube transformer.

 

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