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Triode Kingdom reminded me of a very good point the other day.

97.95.43.235
Posted on September 16, 2016 at 02:15:03
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 Hammond manufactures a great line of chokes that are not only made in Canada as opposed to China,they are cheaper and of better quality.So scrap the Triad branded ones because these are better chokes. Even if they cost a couple dollars more on other models,it is worth it.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

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Hammond - Allied Elec, posted on September 16, 2016 at 05:36:44
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10045
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 Mikey, do you see where the Allied page says "0 can ship immediately"? That's because I bought their entire stock a month or two ago. At that price, I couldn't resist. :)


 

RE: Triode Kingdom reminded me of a very good point the other day., posted on September 16, 2016 at 07:52:41
Jim McShane
Dealer

Posts: 5910
Location: Chicago
Joined: January 13, 2003
 One thing you need to be aware of - I find Hammond chokes spec for DC resistance and what they actually measure to be quite different. I used to use a Hammond that was supposed to be about 260 Ohms - they all measured around 195 Ohms. This was not one batch, this went on for years. Plus as compared to the Triads they are larger so if you have a tight fit issue be careful.

 

RE: Triode Kingdom reminded me of a very good point the other day., posted on September 16, 2016 at 07:56:07
Eli Duttman
Audiophile

Posts: 10455
Location: Monroe Township, NJ
Joined: March 31, 2000
 Hammond has moved some production to China. Don't bet on getting North American made product.


Eli D.

 

RE: Hammond - Allied Elec, posted on September 16, 2016 at 10:40:13
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 You are rotten to the core Jack.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: Triode Kingdom reminded me of a very good point the other day., posted on September 16, 2016 at 10:44:43
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 Jim
That's a lot of variation.Hopefully this isn't the case with all models of Hammond chokes.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: Triode Kingdom reminded me of a very good point the other day., posted on September 16, 2016 at 10:48:21
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 Hammond has moved some production to China. Don't bet on getting North American made product.

Well that sucks.I love with those low inductance and low DCR chokes do tho.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

Protect Yourself from Chinese Products, posted on September 16, 2016 at 12:26:11
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10045
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 "Hammond has moved some production to China."

Purchases must be managed carefully for that reason. Here's how I do it to avoid getting burned:

First, you need either a picture of the product that says "Made in Canada/USA/Germany etc." (like the photo in the Allied catalog) or a seller's description indicating non-Chinese origin. If it's an eBay purchase without a good picture, I always ask the seller before buying. Second, be certain you can return the parts if they turn out to be Chinese. I do this by making all purchases using a credit card. I also never buy from sellers in a foreign country regarding this particular issue (Chinese vs Western manufacture). Foreign purchases are not protected by credit card contracts. Note that I'm not talking about buying things like Russian capacitors here, just items that might be deceptively made in China. Finally, when I receive parts or products that differ significantly from the description, such as being Chinese rather than the Western parts I expected, I just send them back. I don't contact the seller. I don't complain to eBay or PayPal. They just go back with delivery confirmation (tracking). It's been my experience, based on the rare cases when I've had this problem, that the credit card company will *always* credit my account.





 

I have lots of HAMMOND China stuff, posted on September 16, 2016 at 12:26:29
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Looks may be deceiving but the stuff looks fine to me.

In fact some pieces look better made as much as I would rather not have to say that.

 

Why care if it's made in China?, posted on September 16, 2016 at 12:53:05
gusser
Audiophile

Posts: 3649
Location: So. California
Joined: September 6, 2006
 As long as it's still a Hammomd product and built to their standards, why does it matter?

 

Too many assumptions on your part, posted on September 16, 2016 at 13:18:09
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10045
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 And those are assumptions that have - in my experience - been proven wrong over and over during the last 20 years. I simply won't take the risk regarding Chinese quality if there's an alternative. There are other good reasons too, but they're OT in this forum.


 

RE: I try not to purchase chinese in my business as well, posted on September 16, 2016 at 19:35:42
deafbykhorns
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: Florida
Joined: October 17, 2003
 We purchase and install LED lighting in commercial facilities.
I always tell the customer if they want cheap chinese crap, they need to find another electrical contractor....

But sometimes you just don't have a choice. Cree moved operations overseas but still makes the chip material (probably since they don't want the Chinese to copy the process).

 

Edcor makes some nice chokes right in the USA. Nt, posted on September 16, 2016 at 22:05:48
viridian
 Nt

 

RE: Edcor makes some nice chokes right in the USA. Nt, posted on September 17, 2016 at 01:36:07
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 I know.Heyboer does as well.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: Edcor makes some nice chokes right in the USA. Nt, posted on September 17, 2016 at 11:30:11
gordguide
Audiophile

Posts: 302
Joined: January 20, 2002
 As far as I know, Hammond's PCB-mounted semi-torroid transformers ... the type you might find in a phono preamp or DAC ... are the units made in the PRC. The chassis-mount transformers are still made in Canada as far as I know. Regardless, Hammond clearly labels their stuff so it's not difficult to know if what you are looking at or bought is made here or there.

 

RE: Why care if it's made in China?, posted on September 17, 2016 at 12:01:57
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 As long as it's still a Hammomd product and built to their standards, why does it matter?

Sadly,that has long been the attitude that is leading and has led to the demise of American manufacturing.The truth is,the quality isn't the same and Asian audiophiles will tell you this themselves,that our products are far superior and this is why they want them.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: Protect Yourself from Chinese Products, posted on September 17, 2016 at 12:02:58
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 Agreed.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

Deming, Juran and Japan, posted on September 17, 2016 at 15:45:34
RayP
Audiophile

Posts: 727
Location: Maryland
Joined: June 30, 2005
 I am old enough to remember when most Japanese products were considered to be junk. I would not be surprised if the Chinese learned the same lesson and embarked on a quality improvement program similar to what Japan did after WWII.

Remember these are the people who made Ming vases.

ray

 

RE: I try not to purchase chinese in my business as well, posted on September 17, 2016 at 23:33:49
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 Excellent.That is always the best thing to do.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: Why care if it's made in China?, posted on September 18, 2016 at 01:04:03
Paul Joppa
Industry Professional

Posts: 7295
Location: Seattle, WA
Joined: April 23, 2001
 A few years ago, I talked to an American transformer company about Chinese quality. he said that they had learned the hard way that to get good product, they has to supply the materials (wire and laminations) and also install one of their own personnel as quality manager in the actual factory. At the time, Chinese production was very prone to making good products initially, but switching to cheaper materials when not being watched.

Japanese manufacturing had similar issues before they "got religion" about quality and incorporated Deming's ideas. I remember my first transistor radio (from Japan), advertised as a six-transistor radio. I was a teen at the time, so naturally I disassembled it to see what was inside - sure enough, six transistors, but two of them had all three leads soldered to the ground plane. They were purely decorative.

 

RE: Why care if it's made in China?, posted on September 18, 2016 at 08:00:02
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10045
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 "sure enough, six transistors, but two of them had all three leads soldered to the ground plane."

That situation didn't improve because Japanese companies suddenly became honest. It stopped because the FTC passed regulations that made it illegal. Same thing for the ridiculous peak power claims by Japanese audio manufacturers starting in the early '70s. That didn't stop until the government put the hammer down. Even then, the regulations didn't impact autosound, and absurdly false product claims have continued in that industry to the present day. So as not to give the wrong impression, Japan in general is aligned much more closely with Western values and practices than countries like China. All Chinese companies of any real magnitude are linked to the CCP in one way or another. Most maintain product quality only at whatever minimal level is forced on them by partners and buyers. There's little or no intrinsic concern about quality or customers.




 

America has made some junk products too!, posted on September 19, 2016 at 09:59:56
gusser
Audiophile

Posts: 3649
Location: So. California
Joined: September 6, 2006
 Every country has their share of quality and junk products.

IIRC, the reason Japanese cars were able to flood the market in the early 70s was due to the poor quality of lower priced American cars.

And as far as this forum goes, remember that early American consumer transistor products were high unreliable compared to the Japanese. That's another long story as to why but it's basically because the Japanese embraced transistor technology for consumer products long before the Americans. They had more application experience with then fragile transistors in an uncontrolled residential environment. Where as the USA previously only used transistors in military and industrial applications.

I certainly agree a lot of sub standard electronic components come out of China. But let's not apply that across the board. I like to research and evaluate products manufacture by manufacture.

P.S. I am not Asian either. I am American of German decent. So this is not a race issue at all. I just want good quality at a good price. I really don't care who makes it.

 

If you can wait a month, posted on September 19, 2016 at 11:22:45
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I would like to buy more from them but the lead times send me elsewhere.

I have plenty of HAMMOND transformers marked CHINA, these are the low voltage split bobbin. I wonder if the "tube" transformers and chokes are still made in Canada? Wouldn't surprise me.

 

China copy vs. Japan copy, posted on September 22, 2016 at 04:03:58
PakProtector
Audiophile

Posts: 12363
Joined: May 14, 2002
 The China copies were deliberately cheapened.

Japan copies were either as precise a clone as could be done, or had additional engineering time put into improvements.

cheers,
Douglas

Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.

 

RE: Triode Kingdom reminded me of a very good point the other day., posted on September 25, 2016 at 10:51:49
HandmadeElect
Dealer

Posts: 2
Joined: January 30, 2001
 Last I was told Hammond will wind any transformer in their current catalog at their Canadian factory (though the cost maybe a little higher) if the quantity is worthwhile.

 

RE: Deming, Juran and Japan, posted on September 25, 2016 at 13:02:25
91derlust
Audiophile

Posts: 1101
Joined: December 25, 2014
 They may, but Japan and China are different cultures and China's place in the world is different to that of post WW2 Japan. Japan's quality success was largely due to their relative openness to change (and need for assistance) follwing the devastation of the war.

Cheers,
91.
"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein

 

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