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Start of winding, Triad C-40X Chokes

71.50.30.59
Posted on June 23, 2016 at 10:02:34
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
 As you look at the leads on the bobbin, the lead on the right side is the start of the winding ( and thus, the input to the choke ).

On my C-40Xs, there is a paint mark on the bottom of the winding, that seems to correspond to the right hand lead. But the Factory just described it to us this week as the right lead being the start of the winding, when looking at both of the choke's leads, in a normal orientation.

Its hard to find a 10 Ohm choke at about $10.00 these days, I'd suggest two in series, L1/C1/L2/C2 for up to 100 mA. of draw. Choke is rated 320 mHY at 600 mA.

Have fun!!

Jeff Medwin

 

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RE: Start of winding, Triad C-40X Chokes, posted on June 23, 2016 at 11:24:02
rage
Audiophile

Posts: 793
Joined: December 17, 2010
 they buzzed with 55mA as choke input for me.

there was someone on here that was using a vice to crimp the frame who reported good results. I never tried it.

I will agree the c40x is a great sized choke but I never made one work without buzzing in the L1 position.

hamnmond 159zb is up to the job and similar cost. bigger hunk of iron. I ran them at 80-100mA without an issue.


...and now I"m playing with push pull and L-critical choke input. :)
I've been happy with 1H and 10-20ohms.. I know it's not your thing, but... :P


 

RE: Start of winding, Triad C-40X Chokes, posted on June 23, 2016 at 12:10:26
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
 Ohh no, " 20 Ohms or less" IS my thing!! That was the very first thing my audio mentor, Robert Fulton, taught me in 1982 about power supplies for tube audio..." 20 Ohms or less if you can find it ".

1 HY at 10-20 ohms, not too large and heavy, is cool and nice.

My favorite off the shelf choke is no more, the Stancor C-2708. Never had it buzz, rated 320 mHY and it measures 490 mHY on average. Actually, I never really use Triads, as I have NLA Stancors.

The 320 mHY Triads I have measure about 340 mHY BTW. The Hammond 159ZBs were a dissapointment to me. Rated 320 mHY, out of four samples, they measure about 225 - 245 mHY !!

In all instances, I do use L1/C1/L2/C2. C1 may be about 30 uF, C2 about 50 uF. FUN to hear !!

Jeff

 

RE: Start of winding, Triad C-40X Chokes, posted on June 23, 2016 at 12:36:03
rage
Audiophile

Posts: 793
Joined: December 17, 2010
 I did not know you had measured the 159ZB. Good info!

You are using an LCR for measuring if I remember right, or maybe a Z meter?

 

RE: Start of winding, Triad C-40X Chokes, posted on June 23, 2016 at 13:39:54
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005



Sencore Z meter.

 

RE: Start of winding, Triad C-40X Chokes, posted on June 23, 2016 at 15:28:56
hennfarm
Audiophile

Posts: 535
Location: Oregon
Joined: October 8, 2008
 2 ohm. .550mhy. 4.7lb

 

Of Course They Buzz - Made in China, posted on June 23, 2016 at 17:24:27
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10049
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 Rage - Many of Triad's newer products are Chinese, and they simply don't meet the standards required for high end audio work. I recently bought a batch of Hammond 155T from Allied at a good price, still made in North America and less expensive than the Triads. The 155T is 0.5H, 300mA, 30 ohms. Initial results as a first choke in my experiments have been excellent, and they don't buzz or do anything else you wouldn't want. They're not identical to the C-40X, but if you're looking for a high-quality choke for the first position, they're worth considering.

 

Here are the readings of chokes I got on my LC-102, posted on June 24, 2016 at 00:52:47
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005


This 1.5hy choke at 40 ohms reads 1.316hy


This 500mh choke at 30 ohms is reading 396mh


This 500mh at 30 ohms and it reads 401mh


This 320mh at 10 ohms is reading 368mh



" This 320mh at 10 ohms is reading 367mh


These chokes all work well in the applications I have used them,especially the 10 to 30 ohm low mu chokes..There is a problem with consistent stated readings however,if the chokes were checked and rated with voltage applied,that can cause a variation in readings..I am impressed that the 320mh that Jeff recommended specs well because they do a phenomenal job in the Mac Mc30s.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: Start of winding, Triad C-40X Chokes, posted on June 24, 2016 at 08:39:20
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
 Congratulations, you have discovered low DCR Chokes!! Hopefully, my Forum posts have influenced you to a obtain a good result. Hope so.

I'd like to see less weight ( less stored energy ), maybe 4 Ohms, 250 mHY and 2 pounds. Double Pi filter, ie: L1/C1/L2/C2.

Have fun. Why don't you verbalize what YOU hear, when going to such a low DCR choke, so others here on the forum may learn its value in audio design??

Jeff Medwin

 

RE: Here are the readings of chokes I got on my LC-102, posted on June 24, 2016 at 09:26:33
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10912
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 Mike, I've got an older Sencor LC75. Nearly all chokes that I test in that device read a little below spec for inductance. I've wondered whether that could be due to the voltage and current supplied across the choke when the reading is made. In other words, the choke might behave more up to spec or beyond in terms of Henries, when used in circuit. Can you comment?

 

RE: Here are the readings of chokes I got on my LC-102, posted on June 24, 2016 at 10:11:34
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 I've wondered whether that could be due to the voltage and current supplied across the choke when the reading is made. In other words, the choke might behave more up to spec or beyond in terms of Henries, when used in circuit.

The inductive reactance of an inductor increases as the frequency across it increases so depending on the frequency they tested these chokes at and where our testers are testing them at,we are going to get different readings.I assume they are tested at 120hz.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: Here are the readings of chokes I got on my LC-102, posted on June 24, 2016 at 11:10:38
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10912
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 For a given inductance, the relationship between frequency and reactance would be linear. What I wonder is what voltage and current are applied by the Sencore to achieve a reading for inductance and whether those unknown parameters could be causing an artifactually low reading for L.

 

RE: Here are the readings of chokes I got on my LC-102, posted on June 24, 2016 at 13:00:18
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 For a given inductance, the relationship between frequency and reactance would be linear. What I wonder is what voltage and current are applied by the Sencore to achieve a reading for inductance and whether those unknown parameters could be causing an artifactually low reading for L.

What about the fact that the 320mh chokes read higher than the rated value? Either the chokes aren't consistent with their specified values or they are tested at a specified voltage and current or frequency to achieve their stated value.I can measure the voltage and current out of the sencore.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: Of Course They Buzz - Made in China, posted on June 24, 2016 at 13:23:34
Eli Duttman
Audiophile

Posts: 10455
Location: Monroe Township, NJ
Joined: March 31, 2000
 TK,

You did well. However, Hammond has moved some production to China. :>( The next batch of 155Ts can easily have been/will be manufactured in China.

The Chinese have been in the civilization game for thousands of years. Their best workmanship is a fair match for that of anyone else. As I see it, the problem is squeezing maximal profit out, to the detriment of the purchaser. The issue is NOT restricted to China. Remember Vanderbilt's "The public be damned".


Eli D.

 

Here is what I did., posted on June 24, 2016 at 14:14:24
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 On inductor test for value,I did measure 5vdc at the output leads before I hooked it to the choke to be tested.Once I hooked my voltmeter across the choke being tested,I measured no AC or DC voltage at all..
I did do a ringing test and they passed and I also did a 10% tolerance test and the chokes passed..I got 12 rings on each.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

"Their best workmanship is a fair match for that of anyone else.", posted on June 24, 2016 at 15:28:55
Chip647
Audiophile

Posts: 2653
Location: The South
Joined: December 24, 2012
 That must be domestic market. I have never been pleasantly surprised by unsuspected quality coming from china. Mainly super-cheap pricing through inferior/substituted materials and and part/product counterfeiting. Apple manufacturing at the Foxconn plant in Shenzhen is the exception where they seem to be able to simply abuse the human capital and maintain quality of product.

 

RE: "Their best workmanship is a fair match for that of anyone else.", posted on June 24, 2016 at 17:36:15
Eli Duttman
Audiophile

Posts: 10455
Location: Monroe Township, NJ
Joined: March 31, 2000
 I'm talking about work over huge amounts of time, not the current all too prevalent schlock.

Some of current Chinese craftspeople revere quality and a fabulous history. OTOH, far too many of today's business people, of just about every ethnicity, exhibit an attitude of all that traffic will bear and take the money and run. ;>(


Eli D.

 

"That must be domestic market. ", posted on June 24, 2016 at 18:19:12
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10049
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 You would think so, but the process of importing to the West filters out the worst of it. The chaff gets sold locally. Product quality in the domestic market is absolutely appalling, so bad even the Chinese don't want it. They pay a huge premium to get items from Taiwan, Japan and the West. In fact, the prices on Western-brand goods are 5-10 times what they cost in the States, and I'm certain at least 2/3 of those are fakes. I've been to China many times, and I could tell you much more about the exceedingly poor quality of Chinese products. Stainless silverware that rusts, blow dryers that catch fire, kitchen knives that bend like copper, 15A extension cords made from 30 gauge wire, etc., etc. Really, most Westerners don't know how good we've got it. The real surprise will come when China finally demolishes what remains of our industries, and the junk they live with now becomes all we can afford to buy. Very sad.

 

RE: "Their best workmanship is a fair match for that of anyone else.", posted on June 24, 2016 at 18:36:56
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10049
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 "Some of current Chinese craftspeople revere quality and a fabulous history. "

That's the arts and crafts genre. The Cultural Revolution virtually wiped out all other individual skills. This was made clear to me when I visited a furniture store in Nanjing a number of years ago. The mantra of the sales staff was "No worries, everything is made by machine. We don't sell any junk made by hand." And that's just the outer layer. Need a plumber or electrician? Good luck, they apparently haven't taught those trades in China for decades. Everybody just wings it...


 

DC Current Needed, posted on June 24, 2016 at 18:54:34
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10049
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006

If you don't apply DC current while making the measurement, the results won't be accurate. I raised this topic here on the forum sometime back. See the image above and the link below...

 

RE: "Their best workmanship is a fair match for that of anyone else.", posted on June 24, 2016 at 20:55:30
Eli Duttman
Audiophile

Posts: 10455
Location: Monroe Township, NJ
Joined: March 31, 2000
 I'm having difficulty tracking down a self taught sword smith whose work I previously encountered. The man communicates with Japanese masters. A jian (Chinese straight blade) he made was EXQUISITE.

World wide, we need to retain traditional skills. Yes, modern CNC equipment can do some terrific work. JMO, we need to add to the ways things get done. Augment, not discard, the traditional.

I've provided a link below to the 1st video of a set, where Keith Fenner repairs a badly damaged CNC machine using his remarkable know how and a K & T manual mill, etc. Those kind of skills can't be permitted to disappear.


Eli D.

 

RE: "Their best workmanship is a fair match for that of anyone else.", posted on June 24, 2016 at 21:51:33
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10049
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 "I'm having difficulty tracking down a self taught sword smith whose work I previously encountered."

Is this someone in China? I'll be glad to help if I can. My Mandarin makes the Chinese laugh, but others in my family are conversational.

 

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