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Panasonic ED vs EE

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Posted on April 14, 2016 at 22:26:03
Looks like it's coming down to these two?? Can anyone compare and contrast these two and is there anything better in general purpose? Small, thin, radial leads. The ED's are said to be hard to beat. Need the high voltage. Thanks, Tweaker

 

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RE: Panasonic ED vs EE, posted on April 15, 2016 at 02:00:32
Why don't you get a few and report back?

 

RE: Panasonic ED vs EE, posted on April 15, 2016 at 04:30:08
Well Uncle Mike, I'm trying to reduce my work load and trying to take it easy on the circuit boards to my amps but as people have pointed out the obvious there is no substitute for experience. One thing for sure, IMHO, the Elna Silmic II is god's gift to the audiophile in PS's. That's betwee KW,KZ, and Silmic. YMMV, When you're right your right. I thought the Silmic's blew away the KZ which is worshiped by many. I guess once I narrow it down I'll try a couple. After reading it looks like it's down to these two. Looks like IMHO and YMMV is keeping the flames and spellchecks at bay. Tweaker

 

RE: Panasonic ED vs EE, posted on April 15, 2016 at 05:05:57
If you do a search you will find hundreds of cap comparisons. Let your fingers do the walking.
Also a couple relatively small elecrolytics are hardly an item that break the bank. Then you know for yourself what YOU like, god's gift or not.

 

RE: Panasonic ED vs EE, posted on April 15, 2016 at 08:20:58
Hornlover
Manufacturer

Posts: 2529
Joined: March 8, 2002
The EE series has higher ripple current, and according to the data sheet, the ED series has been discontinued, although Digi-Key still has some.

 

I see that., posted on April 15, 2016 at 13:21:42
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
The ED series is one of the finest lytics ever made.Between the ED series and the Vishay BC series,they come very close to a film cap in the power supply in the way they store and deliver energy and Jim McShane uses a ton of these in his kits and that's one of the reasons they perform so well..The EE may be better spec wise so it will be interesting if there is an improvement of an already world class cap IMHO.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

TS-ED's, posted on April 16, 2016 at 10:17:41
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
In my Atma-sphere monoblocks, I use 14 X 2000uF/200V TS-ED Panasonics per monoblock for filtering the circlotron power supply; that's seven TS-EDs per phase. I bypass each bank with 10uF REL Multicap PPFXSs. I have no idea of the relative contribution of the TS-EDs to the sound of these amplifiers, everything else is also max'd out to the best of my knowledge and ability, but the amplifiers in sum sound wonderful.

 

ELNA Silmic II, posted on April 16, 2016 at 10:21:03
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
Tweaker, You've mentioned many times that you are enamored with the Silmics. I favor them too, whenever the available voltage ratings suit my particular need. However, I've only ever used them in power supply filtering or in a decoupling mode. How have you used them, such that you can be so sure of their "sound"? In SS or tube gear? Coupling or how else? Thanks.

 

RE: ELNA Silmic II, posted on April 16, 2016 at 17:49:42
Lew, I used them in the PS to a dac. Compared them to KZ. May try them as output coupling but I'm looking for smallish film caps of high quality. I also am not sure if polar caps can be used as output coupling caps. Probably. Some think a film will almost always be better. I will eventually use the Silmic II for cathode bypass in my headphone amp. One can see comments how PS caps don't matter that much, can you believe it. Complete transformation of timbres, deeper bass, more intimate sound, and that's comparing them to the mighty KZ. Tweaker

 

RE: I see that., posted on April 16, 2016 at 17:57:07
Mike, These caps seem to be almost universally liked or loved. I'll listen to both EE and ED and report back, unless you get to it first. It won't be after a 500 hour burn in time though. This is just about the only subject that seems mostly free of controversy. Curiously refreshing. Tweaker

 

RE: ELNA Silmic II, posted on April 17, 2016 at 10:51:44
Eli Duttman
Audiophile

Posts: 10455
Location: Monroe Township, NJ
Joined: March 31, 2000
I checked at Mouser, for availability. The combinations of WVDC and capacitance I frequently call for are not present. :>( So, I will continue to look towards Nichicon's "audio grade" parts, including the KZ series.

FWIW, 1 of my "trademarks" is a 470 μF./100 Ω network in combination bias setups.


Eli D.

 

RE: ELNA Silmic II, posted on April 17, 2016 at 11:24:51
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
I have one foot in each camp; I do believe in identifying and using "good" electrolytics, when I pretty much have to use an electrolytic. But beyond that, I do not fret. I empirically chose to use the ELNA Silmic II, based on reputation, in an outboard PS I built for a Klyne 6LX preamplifier that I bought off ebay for cheap, because it had no outboard PS. I also used the same types inside the audio chassis, where Klyne uses electrolytics as decouplers around each stage. However, I also used a big fancy Nichicon inside the audio chassis, because there is no Silmic available in the >4700uF/50V value I required. Once having done that work, I would never think about replacing all those capacitors just to see if some other type might be audibly better. The Klyne sounds great. If I were to think of tweaking it, I would look elsewhere than the filter capacitors. Other "good" electrolytics with which I have actually built things include the Nichicon brand and ELNA Cerafine (no longer in production). Frankly, I have never been excessively impressed with Black Gates, but in fairness I never used the top of the line ones, WKZ, I think. I always thought the Cerafines were a better bang for the buck.

Yes, you CAN use a polar electrolytic for a coupling application. As I understand it, many inexpensive to mid-price solid state devices do that. In my Beveridge amplifiers, the circuit calls for a 10uF electrolytic as a coupler. It's shown on the original schematic as a polar capacitance. Because one of my amplifiers was acting up (oscillating) I dared not deviate from the schematic until I finally isolated the real problem. So, for a long time I used an ELNA Silmic II, 10uF/50V, as a coupler. Eventually, I bypassed that with a 0.1uF teflon film capacitor, and this is the only time in my experience where bypassing a coupling capacitor actually seemed to sound better than not bypassing. And now I've had the guts to use a bipolar Nichicon Muse in this application, no bypass. I actually do not think it sounds any better than Silmic + teflon. Next step would be to install some 10uF/100V polystyrene film capacitors that I was lucky enough to find, in place of the bipolars. Just for fun, I compared the ESR of the 10uF Silmic polar with that of the 10uF Nichicon Muse bipolar. The latter capacitor has a much lower ESR, which I have to think is desirable.

 

RE: ELNA Silmic II, posted on April 17, 2016 at 12:47:39
Ric Schultz thinks that the Wima MPK2 sounds great as a coupling cap. Since I can use a .33uf in my situation I will be putting it up against the Muse BP. If it doesn't cream it I may try the Silmic. Thanks for the info. Tweaker

 

RE: ELNA Silmic II, posted on April 17, 2016 at 16:16:01
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
Each of us is entitled to his opinion when it comes to how this or that part or component "sounds". I don't know how you derive from my post the advice to use a Silmic as a coupling capacitor, except that I did confirm that it is possible to do so. Let us know what you think of these options.

 

RE: ELNA Silmic II, posted on April 20, 2016 at 12:41:49
Lew, I don't see or remember coming to the conclusion that you recommended the Silmic for coupling? A Sonicap Gen II is small enough for the dac I have. I'm now thinking of trying this. Should be getting the PAScaps soon for the main amp. Tweaker

 

RE: ELNA Silmic II, posted on April 26, 2016 at 03:43:29
PakProtector
Audiophile

Posts: 12363
Joined: May 14, 2002
I am re-chipping a Rane AC23B, and the PS is getting UF4004's and Silmic caps, both ahead and behind the regs. It's a small amount of re-soldering whilst under the hood anyway...:)
cheers,
Douglas

Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.

 

RE: ELNA Silmic II, posted on April 28, 2016 at 04:39:28
Hope you like the Silmics. Since you are changing two things at once you won't be able to tell exactly what they are doing but they sound, IMO, very much like their description from Elna. Excellent timbres and full bodied, deep bass. What made you choose the UF4004 over soft recovery (IXYS) or Schottky? Tweaker

 

RE: ELNA Silmic II, posted on May 4, 2016 at 03:14:17
PakProtector
Audiophile

Posts: 12363
Joined: May 14, 2002
The UF4004 choice was for the most part an ease of replacement/board choice. It works pretty well with 1N4004, so I figured the faster diodes would be worth enough to justify the replacement. Did not feel like going Schottky shopping either...LOL

The chip set in those cross overs is rather curious. The performance of the various frequency final chips is different. The biggest shortfall is the 2058 4x chips; they are getting swapped for 2060's...and the TL072 input chips will go to OPA2134's. Am going to eliminate the output couplers too; the DC offset is trivial, compared to headroom/operating point of the following input stage of the amps. Coupling through 'lytics appeals to me not at all...LOL
cheers,
Douglas

Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.

 

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