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What Speakers Are You Using for Low Power SETs?

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Posted on November 22, 2015 at 23:23:19
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10042
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 I've been using speakers that I constructed myself for roughly the last 18 years. Lacking an anechoic chamber for measurements, I don't really know how accurate they are, but the sound is very smooth and extended. Efficiency is also very good, but not as high as horns. I need at least four or five watts per channel in my livingroom. This power level, although not much by some standards, renders certain low-power SETs impractical. In an effort to alleviate this limitation, I recently brought home a pair of Klipsch Cornwalls. I would have preferred K-horns, but I don't have two spare corners, nor is the room dimensioned properly. Anyway, I've been listening to the Cornwalls for two days, and not yet sure I really like them. Certain passages have a sense of accuracy and presence that I think is lacking in my home-built design, but the Cornwalls also sound much "thinner" and somewhat less enjoyable than my other speakers. At first, I thought it was only that they lack very low bass, because mine have an F3 below 20Hz. However, it seems the effect extends much higher in frequency than that, which makes me wonder if it's an imbalance in the design between the woofer and horns. I also think I'm hearing cabinet colorations in the lower registers, but more listening is needed to be sure of this. I will say that the Cornwalls weigh 30-40% less than my other speakers (similar volume), and they're the original model made with plywood, not MDF.

I intend to audition the Cornwalls for another week or two, at the end of which I want to make a final decision as to the direction I'm headed. I can continue to build larger amplifiers and use my original speakers, or I can move permanently to more efficient speakers like the Cornwalls (perhaps with modifications) or other horns, and start designing smaller amps.

My question is, what are other DIY inmates using with their flea-power SETs? I'm thinking about the 45, 1626 (Darling), etc. Do most of you have ultra-efficient speakers? Or do you simply use the amps in an environment where less SPL is needed? If you're using horns, did you find one of the commercial offerings satisfactory, or did you have to design it yourself? I don't have time for the latter, so if individual effort of this type is required to get the most from smaller SETs, that in itself could make the decision for me.

Any input from those of you with experience in this area will be appreciated.


 

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RE: What Speakers Are You Using for Low Power SETs?, posted on November 23, 2015 at 04:22:26
caffeinator
Audiophile

Posts: 1729
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 22, 2003
 With my 300B amps (8 Watts), I use a pair of Bottlehead Straight 8 speakers that I built from a kit they sold a few years back. They are a vertical array of 8 small speakers and a (titanium I think) dome tweeter. I can't recall their efficiency but it is very good. I've been very happy with them, and they can be tucked into corners if need be. I've had Cornwalls in the past and while I loved them, they were just too big for any space I had or figured I was every likely to have.

With my Bottlead SEX amp, which is around two watts, iirc, I use home-made TQWT speakers (see link for plans) with Radio Shack 40-1354 drivers. I've likewise been happy with these; they are mostly used for background music in the den.

 

RE: What Speakers Are You Using for Low Power SETs?, posted on November 23, 2015 at 05:55:16
lugnut1
Audiophile

Posts: 132
Location: Austin,TX
Joined: September 24, 2011
 I use Altec Model 17's with a 45SET. Great match!

 

4P1L SET - Mark Audio Alpair 10s, posted on November 23, 2015 at 06:09:42
andy evans
Audiophile

Posts: 4378
Joined: October 20, 2000
 I have some 4P1L amps, all are 4P1L into 4P1L. A few are PSE with 2 output 4P1Ls. That's like using a 2a3. One is a single 4P1L - much like a 45 amp.

I thought I'd have no chance driving my full-range Mark Audio Alpair 10 columns with a single 4P1L, but it works OK in my smallish listening room. Sensitivity is listed as 88db.

I'm pleased with this combination. 2 stages in the amp, driven from my DAC output of 2v out of a Mac Mini with Audirvana+. Shows that in a smallish room you don't need super sensitive speakers or horns.

 

I Cheat (a little), posted on November 23, 2015 at 06:35:11
Chip647
Audiophile

Posts: 2649
Location: The South
Joined: December 24, 2012
 1000Hz and up go through a TAD2002 and wooden Le Cléac'h curve horns. (109db per watt)
125Hz to 1000Hz go to a pro 10' midrange (around 100db per watt).
Below 125Hz is a Pair of dedicated bass speakers driven by a solid state amp.

Crossovers are Erno Borbely discrete JFET 24dB electronic for the 125Hz, and passive 12dB for the 1000Hz. I used Fuzzmeasure and a measurement microphone to set the 1000Hz crossover. Fuzzmeasure is awesome, well worth the $150 as you can take measurements in your room that look like how it sounds.

Upstairs I have a pair of lightly modified Klipsch Heresy speakers. They do have a sound. What helps make them more HiFi is to not drive below 100Hz signals through them. The pleated surround woofers get muddy when playing full range compared to cutting them off. Again, a sub to handle the room loading really helps.

In both of these cases, keeping 20Hz signals out of both the low power amp and the high efficiency speakers seems to me to be magic. To do great bass with 1 watt is hugely expensive and huge. I have listened to 5 foot diameter bass horns that still needed subs. Most of the time I do not listen to music at live levels, and the bass will lean out when the volume is turned down. Being able to control the sound makes me happy.

 

RE: What Speakers Are You Using for Low Power SETs?, posted on November 23, 2015 at 07:46:35
SteveBrown
Audiophile

Posts: 2454
Location: Portland, OR
Joined: November 14, 2002
 I use a variation on Wayne's "4-pi" speaker and they work well on a variety of amps from 45 SET to 60w PP. Very smooth, good bass reach. I do think the 15" JBL 2226 needs a bit of power to sound it's best, I like 8 watts min. FWIW, I've heard several Klipsch (like Cornwals, Fortes and Heresys) and felt the same as you do about the sound. But I believe there are a number of after market crossovers designed to address some of those issues.

 

RE: What Speakers Are You Using for Low Power SETs?, posted on November 23, 2015 at 09:16:09
hifipaul
Audiophile

Posts: 735
Location: NY
Joined: December 22, 2008
I use Altec 601Bs or 755Cs mostly. The 601s like 7 watts. The 755s get along with 2 watts better at moderate levels. Bi-amping and/or using subs is necessary for the flea powered amps.

Another spkr setup I have is an Altec A7 (sort of). A 1 watt 46 amp drives a 302 horn louder than I can stand, sounds great, and crosses over at 300hz. For bass it uses a 200 watt solid state amp. The trick is to get a 15" paper cone woofer to blend well with a horn diaphragm. I never did get it as good as I want, but that's the trade off. When I play pink floyd at 100dbs it doesn't matter.

The Klipsh LaScalas sound great with 1-2 watt amps but the xovers have their flaws, and you will still need a sub.

You will need to choose your trade off. Efficiency, range, coherence, SPLs. In general I'd lean toward bi-tri amping with flea powered amps (and high powered amps for bass). A revisit with Edgars tractrix horn might be worth another look too.

 

RE: What Speakers Are You Using for Low Power SETs?, posted on November 23, 2015 at 09:20:10
Eli Duttman
Audiophile

Posts: 10455
Location: Monroe Township, NJ
Joined: March 31, 2000
 TK,

FWIW, I use some self engineered, nominally 94 dB. sensitive, bass reflex speakers with a pair of DECWARE SE84Bs strapped into monoblocks. Power O/P is approx. 8 WPC.

Try the "Wayback Machine" for NY Blast 2000. I was 1 of several presenters whose stuff was connected to Joerg Heyer's 300B based "Laurel" amps. The amp/speaker combo sounded good. The DIY speakers are good down to approx. 50 Hz., but in typical bass reflex fashion falling like a stone at 24 dB./octave.

I've "always" been space limited and deal in satellite/subwoofer type setups. I use a pair of tweaked early generation ProAc Tablettes with amps of higher power like a Cit 2. or AVA FET/valve and the "home brews" with amps of less power. I should get a new S/W and am thinking about Magnepan's offering.


Eli D.

 

RE: What Speakers Are You Using for Low Power SETs?, posted on November 23, 2015 at 11:03:08
merdy
Audiophile

Posts: 1625
Location: New paltz,ny
Joined: July 25, 2001



kitchen system diy se 84 modified magnavox speakers pioneer pe 12 driver with dayton ribbon at 94 db and dayton sub enough sizzle for cooking
bedroom se 45 driving lafayette sk98 about 96db active crossover with 2 th subs,sexy time
main rig 300b drd,for altec 288 g,6as4 for altec 804 ,dyna m3 kt88 in triode, driving 515b,kinergetics sw100 driving 4 jbl 2235,bash amp driving martin audio15
2 elec crossovers ,tva preamp around 112 db from 22 to 18k ,dead quiet and intoxication partner
Silence is golden duct tape is silver

 

Me too, posted on November 23, 2015 at 11:37:47
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17294
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 SET 6b4g or 300b (because of my gain structure I only get 2 watts from either amp) into a JBL 2118 with tweeter (97db) crossed at 200Hz.

JBL 2231's in JBL 4503A-1 enclosures driven a by SS amp.

The system will play louder than I ever want it to.

Tre'


Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: What Speakers Are You Using for Low Power SETs?, posted on November 23, 2015 at 12:34:47
SteveBrown
Audiophile

Posts: 2454
Location: Portland, OR
Joined: November 14, 2002
 Your post reminded me of my Lafayette SK128 "bi-axial" speakers. These 8" guys are very efficent and work well in a small BR cabinet - you could probably use one of the larger ones that are nicely pre-made from Parts Express. These come up on ebay often. I have two pairs at home and in fact, grew up with these as my dad had a pair in BR cabs for many years. Alnico, too! I think they need some top end help, so I cross them to a ribbon tweeter above 4khz.

 

RE: What Speakers Are You Using for Low Power SETs?, posted on November 23, 2015 at 12:43:48
ottoamps
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: Seattle
Joined: February 6, 2005
 Interesting to me that you're not sure about the cornwalls. For the very same reason I recently picked up some heresies. My diy 90db backhorns weren't a great match for the Darling, they sounded much better with a few more watts, but "simple" music was great. With the heresies that little darling can really belt out the tunes. I'd read a lot of klipsch hate over the years, but I'm impressed with the sound.

Now I wish I had room for some khorns or lescalas.
I should add that my listening space is only about 12 feet square.

 

RE: What Speakers Are You Using for Low Power SETs?, posted on November 23, 2015 at 13:18:32
hennfarm
Audiophile

Posts: 535
Location: Oregon
Joined: October 8, 2008
 +1

 

RE: What Speakers Are You Using for Low Power SETs?, posted on November 23, 2015 at 14:40:25
twystd
Audiophile

Posts: 2723
Location: Austin,Texas
Joined: December 9, 2000
 I have built 2 pairs of the Straight 8s, one original with the updated crossover, and another pair that is a tweaked clone. Me and 2 other audio buds each built a pair (3 pair) of clones. We built tweaked clones since Doc discontinued them, and we absolutely love them. I've never heard speakers go full range the way they do....smooth, detailed, and fast. At a Bottlehead meet years ago in Houston we measured them with a SPL meter and test CD. They measured pretty much flat from 20khz to 30hz, after that they fell off like a rock. They integrate so well, and I feel no need for a sub, 30hz is low enough.

Having said that, they are 96dB efficient, and certainly play loud enough even with a 2A3 amp, however I've heard them with more powerful amps, and the peaks are amazing with a 30 watt amp. We compared a good 2A3 amp with my 300B amp, and we (several of us) thought they had much more "authority" and dynamics with the 300B.

I have a pair of those selenium horn tweeters that I'm going to put in them one day, that is supposed to be a major upgrade. All in all, I love them, but I feel to get what they are capable of, I need to build that class A1 PP 30 watt amp I've been black boarding for the last several years. For me, truly flea powered amps like a 45, need speakers 102dB and up, to get the peaks and dynamics right....just my opinion of course.

twystd

 

RE: What Speakers Are You Using for Low Power SETs?, posted on November 23, 2015 at 16:18:08
SETdude
Audiophile

Posts: 3944
Joined: January 20, 2000
 The Corny's will need a little xover work. I'd try some Russian K75 copper foil in oil caps in the xovers. They are not expensive. PIO caps in the amp too. I would also check the tweeters to be sure they are in spec. Some new internal wiring won't hurt either. See link for other Klipsch tweaks. There is also the Klipsch forum that has a Heritage section. Good info there. Give a little tweaking a go and then decide. None of the Heritage Klipsch have ruler flat impedance so don't look to rock out with 2 watts. With a little effort you will be better able to decide if they work better for you than what you have now. BTW, Khorns really need SOLID walls behind them to really perform.

Me? I driving Heresy III's with a Dennis Had Inspire amp and preamp, good stuff, 4-12 watts depending on the output tube. I'm getting older and downsized.

 

RE: What Speakers Are You Using for Low Power SETs?, posted on November 23, 2015 at 16:37:43
Frank Mena
Audiophile

Posts: 279
Location: S Western Ontario
Joined: May 28, 2006
 Check the link below to see what this fellow did. He based his system on Inlow's 135Hz front horn. Don't know if you have the space for horns but it seems pretty cool made for low watts. It is post 35 in the link below. You might have to register to see the pic.

No affiliation blah blah blah ect...

Cheers
Frank M

 

RE: What Speakers Are You Using for Low Power SETs?, posted on November 23, 2015 at 17:10:10
calsaint
Audiophile

Posts: 552
Location: Denver
Joined: July 28, 2001
 Lowther DX3/Eminence Alpha15 OBs, active xo at 150hz (I'm using a class d amp for bass).
I had my set 2a3s in my 2nd system with Heresy's and an active sub until I made these, and while that was okay this is far better.

I use Cardas method for speaker placement, so they are pretty far out in the room. if you have some space the OBs seem to like it. Since you mention this is your living room, this setup might be out of scope.

no way do I have the diy skills to build horns, but OBs are no sweat.

best of luck and report back,
Steve

 

RE: What Speakers Are You Using for Low Power SETs?, posted on November 23, 2015 at 17:54:00
rage
Audiophile

Posts: 793
Joined: December 17, 2010
 I'm using A7 828 cabs, 416 woofers, Selenium D220ti on JBL PT-Waveguide right now. (econowave) Crossed at 1200hz.

About 3.5 watts from my SE 2a3 amp. No problem getting loud. I'm quite happy.

 

RE: I'll be the outlier here, posted on November 23, 2015 at 18:08:38
bean
 I prefer push pull DHT's over SET for a system that can reasonably reproduce a symphony at realistic volumes. A little "magic" sacrificed but usually more coherent. I personally think there is more benefit in direct heating, than there is in single ended.

Cornwalls always sound thin to me too. And to a lot of other people. Taste, room, system, etc etc. if you don't like, keep looking. You should try an Altec or JBL based system if you have the space

I use pp 6B4Gs on a 93db system (JBL based, L300 drivers). I am seriously looking at the InIow 135s described below; trying to figure out how to slip a pair of 40hz front horns into the living room below those without the wife noticing

But I'll stay with pp DHTs

 

RE: I'll be the outlier here, posted on November 23, 2015 at 18:33:34
vinnie2
Audiophile

Posts: 4481
Location: North Carolina
Joined: September 28, 2013
 Have you heard set dht? It is great.

 

RE: I'll be the outlier here, posted on November 23, 2015 at 21:24:56
bean
 Of course! Can't swing a cat in this neighborhood without hitting an SET. I have built a few; liked the 45 the best. I would try a pp 45 amp if pairs of RCA 45s were easier to find.

For me, the first "wump" of a bass drum, PP DHT typically kicks SE DHT to the curb - unless it's a full out all front horn system, then it's close.

Some of the exotic kilovolt SETs are fantastic, but out of most of our comfort and wallet zones...

 

RE: What Speakers Are You Using for Low Power SETs?, posted on November 23, 2015 at 21:33:43
SteveBrown
Audiophile

Posts: 2454
Location: Portland, OR
Joined: November 14, 2002
 As I recall, at the last (and greatest) VSAC Doc used 8 300b amps to drive the 8's. Too bad Bottlehead doesn't support a speaker product anymore. 15 years ago there were a number of players, but may have vanished. I'm thinking Hammer Dynamics, Bottlehead, there was Wayne at Pi, Cain & Cain, and another one - can't remember the name but seemed like a 12" in a BR cab. Too bad about Hammer - I remember them being by far the best sounding at the conference before the last one. I just couldn't pony up the $$ back then (two teen girls to put through school/ sports). Also too bad about Terry Cain, wonderful guy. Got to visit his shop in Walla Walla and go see some of his speaks in the local wine bars. Wayne has survived and done well. His are the "big box" sort, but very, very well done. I was listening to my 4pi knock offs tonight and thinking the soundstage in my 12x10 listening room was just amazing.

 

RE: I'll be the outlier here, posted on November 23, 2015 at 22:42:21
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17294
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 "For me, the first "wump" of a bass drum, PP DHT typically kicks SE DHT to the curb..."

Yeah, IMO SET's don't do bass for three reasons.

Not enough power, not enough primary inductance and too high an output impedance.

Bi amp with SS driving the woofers and SET on top. Problem solved. As least for me. All the magic and all the slam.

YMMV

Tre'


Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: What Speakers Are You Using for Low Power SETs?, posted on November 23, 2015 at 23:53:42
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 15703
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
 Tonian LabsTL-D1 in a small room for my 2A3/45 monos and Darling. Anything over 8W, I use LS3/5A speakers by Stirling Broadcast.

 

Strangely I don't do "bass slam"...., posted on November 24, 2015 at 01:50:16
andy evans
Audiophile

Posts: 4378
Joined: October 20, 2000
 I often read about "bass slam" and I don't subscribe to it because....... I'm a bass player.

Maybe I don't need to hear that much bass - I know what it does, and I can fill in a lot of its function in my head. Kind of "the shoemakers children have no shoes..."

But another reason is that what I want to hear is clean and well defined bass with TONE rather than "slam". I play double bass and that actually doesn't have much "slam" - the response is pretty even right down from top to bottom.

"Slam" is usually artificial - electronically boosted bass as in Reggae etc. It's an effect, and not a product of acoustic instruments.

 

Odeon La Bohemes, posted on November 24, 2015 at 02:59:41
morricab
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 9175
Location: switzerland
Joined: April 1, 2005
 In my main room. Downstairs, Reference 3a Master Control MMC.

 

RE: I'll be the outlier here, posted on November 24, 2015 at 04:02:50
vinnie2
Audiophile

Posts: 4481
Location: North Carolina
Joined: September 28, 2013
 I mean dht outputs driven by dht drivers, like the 26/26/45 I am going to build soon. Best sound I ever heard. Of course I am not a fan of heavy rock and roll bass either; if it plays a symphonic orchestra double bass well I am happy.

 

RE: yep, posted on November 24, 2015 at 05:42:02
bean
 Not slam. But a nice solid "wump" not "waaUMPth"

Tone, attacks and decays. If those aren't right it drives me nuts.

 

Unless it's Slam Stewart. , posted on November 24, 2015 at 08:43:46
kyle
Audiophile

Posts: 1839
Location: London Ontario
Joined: September 29, 1999
 Like "Shut Yo Mouth" with Major Holley, Dick Hyman and Oliver Jackson.

 

RE: yep, posted on November 24, 2015 at 08:46:45
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17294
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 Maybe I used the wrong word.

I'm a recording engineer, I know what both electric and acoustic instruments sound like.

Use whatever word you want, IMO SET does not do bass correctly for the 3 reasons I gave.

Maybe I should have said "All the magic (in the mids and highs) and all the proper authority in the bass".

Andy, to me the whole point of a custom system is to not have to "fill in a lot [] in my head". It should just all be there.

My intent wasn't to argue the point, but to share my experience and technical knowledge.

IMO (and according to my technical understanding) flea powered SET's don't do bass correctly and I will not be convinced otherwise. Ive been there, done that.

Peace and Happy Thanksgiving.

Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

If it isn't my head...., posted on November 24, 2015 at 09:27:39
andy evans
Audiophile

Posts: 4378
Joined: October 20, 2000
 Tre: "Andy, to me the whole point of a custom system is to not have to "fill in a lot [] in my head". It should just all be there. "

LOL. Pretty hard to argue with that.

I just think "slam" is totally the wrong word for an acoustic bass, amplified or not. It suggests that the bass is boosted, which as you and I know it shouldn't be. I'd be much happier with a different word, but that's what's in current usage.

 

RE: If it isn't my head...., posted on November 24, 2015 at 09:38:21
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17294
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 I agree, it was a bad choice of a word.

"proper authority" is better.

Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: Altec ..., posted on November 24, 2015 at 09:43:34
deathtube 667
 Altec 811B with 808-8A (aluminum diaphragm) driven by SE 45 active parafeed amp.

Altec 414-8B in ported enclosure for bass.

I use active EQ and crossovers in a biamped system.

Used a calibrated mic and RTA to dial it in.

DT 667

 

RE: yep (again). nt, posted on November 24, 2015 at 10:25:14
bean
 z

 

RE: What Speakers Are You Using for Low Power SETs?, posted on November 24, 2015 at 11:30:17
caffeinator
Audiophile

Posts: 1729
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 22, 2003
 I have run other amps into the 8's, and they've never diasppointed. Amps around 35W (Marantz 8B, Dyna ST-70) had plenty of volume and sounded very good. The Dyna ST-35 (17W) sounded particularly sweet.

I also have a pair of those Selenium tweeters around for s someday upgrade of the titanium dome tweeters. My main complaint about those was their fragility - I've been able to gently pop out a lot of dents they acquired over the years but some seem permanent now...not sure they affect the sound, but they just look a little off.

 

RE: What Speakers Are You Using for Low Power SETs?, posted on November 24, 2015 at 11:32:37
caffeinator
Audiophile

Posts: 1729
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 22, 2003
 I think the setup at VSAC was 8 Paramount 300B amps driving some arrays that looked like straight 8's, but were actually stacked cabinets a lot like what you seen on the Bottlehead home page these days, if not the very same setup. I remember that - they had their R2R running into them and sounding fantastic.

 

RE: Altec ..., posted on November 24, 2015 at 11:33:31
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
 Me too, but with MUCH less "stuff"..... in the audio chain.

A-7 825 enclosures, 515B woofers, 802D tweeters on Emilar EH-500 horns, ( ala Joe Roberts ) lotsa Mil Spec hook-up wire and my new prototype Type 45 amp.

I LOVE Altec, very neutral and uncolored, transparent IF you feed it correctly. I try to !!

Jeff Medwin

 

Klipsch La Scala, posted on November 24, 2015 at 13:10:02
briney
Audiophile

Posts: 179
Location: Niles, Mi.
Joined: June 5, 2004
 As I type: WE-91a maybe 8 watts. A work in progress.
Sometimes I use the Klipschorns, but since recent move haven't had them hooked up.

 

RE: What Speakers Are You Using for Low Power SETs?, posted on November 24, 2015 at 16:32:17
merdy
Audiophile

Posts: 1625
Location: New paltz,ny
Joined: July 25, 2001
 hi i love the lafayette driver it replaced the philips 9710 i found these in a church yard sale in unopened boxes around 15 yrs ago for lets say cheap after using them and waiting for other web users to post something about them as i only got the specs about 8 yrs ago from inmate GM
they are amazing ,i have seen the 128 and the larger 12 inch one on e pay but was not sure if is the same manufacturer(sk 98 is fuikuin),i will keep my eye out for them
btw did i buy the fostex ff85 from you?
happy turkey day
Silence is golden duct tape is silver

 

RE: Strangely I don't do "bass slam"...., posted on November 24, 2015 at 18:28:49
Paul Joppa
Industry Professional

Posts: 7295
Location: Seattle, WA
Joined: April 23, 2001
 When I think of "slam" I think of the Ravel/Moussorgsky Pictures at an Exhibition - particularly the final Great Gate of Kiev section, with some very enthusiastic orchestral bass drums. Or the 1812 overture with its cannon shots. It's an impulse sound, with a very high peak pressure requiring a lot of momentary acoustic energy at very low frequencies. Huge transformer inductance helps - many SETs have a power bandwidth that falls off below 50Hz - but loud bass impulses are still likely to place the most severe power requirements on an amplifier.

It is often claimed the tube watts (especially SET watts) are somehow bigger than solid-state watts. IMHO that's just because SETs overload gracefully, so you can operate them into occasional overload without noticing. Big bass transients expose their limitations, partly because the frequency range between the bass transient and the midrange is too great for the ear's masking effect to cover up the distortion.

 

Thanks for all the good info and opinions!, posted on November 25, 2015 at 08:22:44
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10042
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 I'm still evaluating the Cornwalls, but I already think they'll be difficult to live with unless modifications are made. I love their presence and dynamics, but there's a stridency in vocals that needs taming, and a subwoofer is needed to augment the region below 50 Hz or so. At this point, I'm leaning towards selling them and refining the original speakers a little more. I'll give this another week to be sure. Thanks to everyone!


 

RE: You should sell your house and, posted on November 25, 2015 at 18:33:56
deafbykhorns
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: Florida
Joined: October 17, 2003
 Find one that's suited for a pair of Khorns
I've had mine since 1985 but have undergone many revisions
Get rid of those metal horns and build them from wood

 

RE: Strangely I don't do "bass slam"...., posted on November 25, 2015 at 18:34:50
A.Wayne
Audiophile

Posts: 2527
Location: Front row center
Joined: November 30, 2011
 Nope thats not slam and it has nothing to do with reggae ... :)

 

RE: What Speakers Are You Using for Low Power SETs?, posted on November 26, 2015 at 00:21:19
91derlust
Audiophile

Posts: 1101
Joined: December 25, 2014
 Hi T-K,

Sorry I am late to this.

I use GPA 604-8H-III, Rick Craig crossover in a moderate-sized MLTL (alignment calculated for wall loading in a small to moderate room and driven by ~ 3 Ohm source impedance). Cabinet is important; crossover is critical. Sounds nice - natural. Really, a last-ever-system could be built around these.

I had others do the work for me - I just did a bit of research and coordinated the project. I'd be happy to help out if you went in this direction. Feel free to pm.

If I had more space, I might do something like a 15" mid-bass and a 1 - 1.4" compression driver crossed at 800Hz. Still, I like coax for normal listening distances - coherent.

Cheers,
91.

"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein

 

RE: Strangely I don't do "bass slam"...., posted on November 26, 2015 at 04:17:30
SETdude
Audiophile

Posts: 3944
Joined: January 20, 2000
 "Slam" is usually artificial - electronically boosted bass as in Reggae etc. It's an effect, and not a product of acoustic instruments.

+1

 

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