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Great news if these proof to be anywhere close to Black Gate WKZs

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Posted on November 11, 2014 at 04:19:00
Nickel Core
Audiophile

Posts: 870
Joined: February 11, 2005
I heard Peter Qvortrup talking about development of these things a long while ago...

Looking forward learn from the first experiences.

NC

 

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RE: Great news if these proof to be anywhere close to Black Gate WKZs, posted on November 11, 2014 at 05:02:44
vinnie2
Audiophile

Posts: 4481
Location: North Carolina
Joined: September 28, 2013
That's nice. What are we talking about?

 

RE: Great news if these proof to be anywhere close to Black Gate WKZs, posted on November 11, 2014 at 05:12:33
Nickel Core
Audiophile

Posts: 870
Joined: February 11, 2005
Oops, forgot to include link...

NC

 

RE: Great news if these proof to be anywhere close to Black Gate WKZs, posted on November 11, 2014 at 07:23:32
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
I think a little skepticism is in order, a priori. Just sayin'.

 

RE: Great news if these proof to be anywhere close to Black Gate WKZs, posted on November 11, 2014 at 07:30:12
FlaCharlie
Audiophile

Posts: 940
Location: Gville, FL
Joined: June 1, 2003
Just guessing . . . but I bet the color is significant.

 

Why? (nt), posted on November 11, 2014 at 07:53:51
Nickel Core
Audiophile

Posts: 870
Joined: February 11, 2005
.

 

RE: Great news if these proof to be anywhere close to Black Gate WKZs, posted on November 11, 2014 at 08:06:49
rage
Audiophile

Posts: 792
Joined: December 17, 2010
I wonder if the blackgates were ever really any good to begin with?

 

RE: Why? (nt), posted on November 11, 2014 at 09:17:10
Blackdog
Manufacturer

Posts: 1505
Location: Ontario
Joined: March 20, 2006
Poor tolerances, do not meet voltage spec, ESR higher than equivalent Panasonic by about 30%.
I tried Blackgates for about 6 months, because a number of my customers requested them. Had to stop using them due to about a 25% failure rate being run anything approaching 3/4 voltage.


Dan Santoni

 

Why use a 'lytic?, posted on November 11, 2014 at 12:12:52
RC Daniel
Audiophile

Posts: 1922
Location: Brisbane
Joined: November 3, 2002
There seem to be better options for cathode circuits and B+ these days.

Quality metalised films are available at a range of price points and there are some nice modern film in oils also.

Still, the proof would be in the listening.

Cheers,
Ray
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few." Shunryo Suzuki

 

RE: Why use a 'lytic?, posted on November 11, 2014 at 12:36:59
Nickel Core
Audiophile

Posts: 870
Joined: February 11, 2005
I would never use caps at all in cathode circuits.

But for Power Supplies I just love the WKZ. They keep improving every day (WKZs takes a long time to burn in, and when you switch your amp off, it takes a day again to get them up to speed)

That said, for my phono amp I only use ASC Oil caps & NOS Russian Paper/Oils (and some VCAP OIMPs near the tubes). If you can handle the size of motorrun caps, they are great too.

NC

 

Which Blackgates? , posted on November 11, 2014 at 12:40:33
Nickel Core
Audiophile

Posts: 870
Joined: February 11, 2005
I have used them all my life, and never have seen one failed.

I don't care much about ESR (although the BGs I used had almost immeasurably low ESR and where always close to spec). I care about how they sound in a circuit.

I only have experience with the more expensive BGs types though.

NC

 

With AN logo, it won't be cheap for sure. I also love WKZ (nt), posted on November 11, 2014 at 13:54:31
bouncy ball
Audiophile

Posts: 1219
Location: British Columbia
Joined: July 26, 2003
.

 

I wish Silmic came in high voltage, might start using electrolytics again if that happened~nT, posted on November 11, 2014 at 14:18:11
Cleantimestream
Audiophile

Posts: 7542
Location: Kentucky
Joined: June 30, 2005
~!
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.

 

RE: Why? (nt), posted on November 12, 2014 at 07:25:04
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
I know there are them that likes Blackgates and them that do not like them. My skepticism would be around the notion that because of the fancy wrap on these new AN products it necessarily means that the internal construction is exotic, in a good way. It's just possible that PQ sees a market niche that has been vacated since the HV Blackgates were discontinued and is seeking to capitalize on it. I personally am quite happy these days with HV Nichicons and Panasonic TS-ED, etc, when I do have to use a 'lytic. I definitely would not pay a very high price for those new Rubyons, unless there was something demonstrably exceptional about them. That said, I do very much like Rubycons in their very low voltage ratings, in solid state gear, for example.

 

What PQ says..., posted on November 12, 2014 at 07:32:56
Nickel Core
Audiophile

Posts: 870
Joined: February 11, 2005
From 12:30 on...

 

RE: Why? (nt), posted on November 12, 2014 at 09:57:51
Donald North
Manufacturer

Posts: 1296
Joined: February 8, 2001
I've visited Audio Note UK a few times the past two years and witnessed the development and evolution of these capacitors. These are not simply a rebranded Rubycon with a gold wrapper and AN logo on it. Since the discontinuation of the Black Gate products, PQ and team have been working closely with Rubycon for years on this project and made trips to Japan to work with their engineers and materials specialists to create numerous prototypes to arrive at the products you see offered now on their website. I know of no other audio company making such effort and investment to continue the advance of this category of component for audio use.

 

RE: Which Blackgates? , posted on November 12, 2014 at 12:04:44
Blackdog
Manufacturer

Posts: 1505
Location: Ontario
Joined: March 20, 2006
Pretty much all the lines, except the bipolar ones (can't remember the nomenclature). Poorest cap I have ever seen used, excluding the Chinese junk used in a lot of stuff today.
Dan Santoni

 

That's great news..., posted on November 12, 2014 at 18:51:03
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
Do you know anything about pricing?

 

RE: That's great news..., posted on November 12, 2014 at 21:45:18
Donald North
Manufacturer

Posts: 1296
Joined: February 8, 2001
Pricing is posted on their webpage. See link below.

 

RE: Great news if these proof to be anywhere close to Black Gate WKZs, posted on November 13, 2014 at 13:49:17
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
If you need high capacitance where you have limited room,that would be ok..I would much rather use a film cap for high voltage applications as opposed to an electrolytic but of the electrolytics,the 105 degree panasonic ED series is tough to beat.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

You would not wonder about it..., posted on November 13, 2014 at 14:59:01
Nickel Core
Audiophile

Posts: 870
Joined: February 11, 2005
If you ever really tried them.

NC

 

I dare to say that WKZs outperform every other type of capacitor, even non polars and film caps, due to how they actuall, posted on November 13, 2014 at 15:13:07
Nickel Core
Audiophile

Posts: 870
Joined: February 11, 2005
y work...

Read the attached article, or better... use the WK or WKZ's in the proper way. That is allow them to run in for at least 500 hours, and then do not switch your equipment off again. If you do, allow another 24 hours to judge again.


The WKZ are completely (but not quite) unlike any other capacitor. The fact that they are polarized does not mean they have the 'limitation's polarized/electrolytic capacitors. Transcendence Electron Transfer beats any other method of building caps, both from a theoretic and practical point of view (IMHO).

WKZs are really a separate class. I don't view them as either electrolytic, non-polar, film or oil caps..

They are BG WKZs.

I many cases I compared WKZs with ASC oil caps, paper oil, exotic film caps etc. etc. but WKZs proved to be unbeatable (for me).

You can read the article for theocratic background. But I trust my ears.

NC

 

my opinion, posted on November 13, 2014 at 17:37:37
Jim Dowdy
Manufacturer

Posts: 1518
Location: Atlanta, GA
Joined: July 22, 2000
Yes, the Black Gates were the best sounding electrolytics ever...but I never found them to sound any better than a run-of-the-mill ASC oiler.
And (for considerably less money) you never had to be concerned about things like never turning your equipment off.

 

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