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Pinging Vinnie, regarding clip leading ....

71.0.210.23

Posted on October 29, 2014 at 10:47:36
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005






Yo Vinnie baby,

I was THINKING of you last week as I was clip leading bypass caps into my amp, and listening to their effects.

I also listened to one clip lead, double clip leads on grounds ( better !! ), double clip leads ground and hot, and the final photo which is : doubled-up Kimber TCSS, short lead lengths, Wonder Soldered in place in the amp.

The final iteration/photo is a big difference, energy, power, purity, the one 'ya wanna take home and listen to forever. In ALL cases, at all positions, I A-Bed on music - what each change individually sounded like. Way cool to do !!

Have fun, I am also.

G-d gave us two ears and one mouth, there must be a lesson to that.

Jeff

 

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Finally, a look uder the hood of Serious Stereo 2A3 amp! [nt], posted on October 29, 2014 at 12:00:00
Ray Moth
Audiophile

Posts: 2784
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Joined: November 10, 2003
NFT

 

Incorrect, it is Jeff's 6AH4GT stereo prototype amp Raymond, posted on October 29, 2014 at 12:19:27
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
See prior post, pre bypassing.

JM

 

RE: Pinging Vinnie, regarding clip leading ...., posted on October 29, 2014 at 12:45:18
vinnie2
Audiophile

Posts: 4481
Location: North Carolina
Joined: September 28, 2013
Thanks for the photos Jeff. Since you are the only one who heard it, we will have to take your word for it. Your results don't match what I have found in my work, but I am glad to see you are using clip leads.

 

That is where the Jump Factor comes from, same effect on cats (nt), posted on October 29, 2014 at 13:21:08
Chip647
Audiophile

Posts: 2633
Location: The South
Joined: December 24, 2012

 

RE: special wires ..., posted on October 29, 2014 at 15:26:32
I was playing around with the "special" audio wires you recommended.

Swapping in CD comp caps on the 811B with double clip leads on the input/output of the cap.

I noticed subjective improvement by removing the clip leads and soldering directly to the cap terminals (motor run types) with the special wires.

The transfer effect you and DF mentioned many times came to mind.







 

Here will be the new 2A3 design, posted on October 29, 2014 at 16:19:04
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005



On the floor of one of one of my clothes closets, initial layout - as imagined by me last night, stereo JJ 2A3 DC amp. Those are MQ ES-025 outputs and my special 1/2 Ohm - 9 Ohm DCR custom power trannie, with double and triple TCSS lead outs for B+ and 5 VCT rectification ( red and tellow wires, of course ). Nickels are left and right RCA jack positions.

Thinking Midnight Blue ( with pearl ) textured powder coating for this 14 gauge chassis. Beautiful welded corners !! I have a welder friend who is artful.

JM

 

Glad to see you're back to DHT's...nt(), posted on October 29, 2014 at 16:31:28
drummerwill
Audiophile

Posts: 965
Location: St Louis Mo.
Joined: January 7, 2003


 

Kool Kats too............... (nt) , posted on October 29, 2014 at 18:02:39
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
.

 

RE: Pinging Vinnie, regarding clip leading ...., posted on October 30, 2014 at 08:50:37
rage
Audiophile

Posts: 792
Joined: December 17, 2010
jeff do you add these clip leaded caps in while the system is hot or do you power down between each change?

it is amazing to me either way that you could have the "memory" to detect differences while also knowing the sonic signature of the clip lead junk wire.

maybe you should make some fancy TCSS clip leads and get some copper aligator clips?


personally I'm starting to feel overwhelmed by all of these bypass caps and with more time a single cap solution looks better and better. :)

 

RE: special wires ..., posted on October 30, 2014 at 08:54:02
rage
Audiophile

Posts: 792
Joined: December 17, 2010
I reached the point of over stimulation once the whole power cord to the priamry of the PT thing happened and am no longer confident I can hear a difference with any of this stuff. (with a few exceptions)

one thing that I did hear a dramatic difference with was swapping output transformers to MQ DS-025. that was a definite dramatic improvement. amazingly I could even measure that difference. :)

 

a few exceptions, posted on October 30, 2014 at 12:37:54
RC Daniel
Audiophile

Posts: 1922
Location: Brisbane
Joined: November 3, 2002
Hey rage, care to share a few of those exceptions that you think make an audible difference? If not, that is cool too.

I know Jeff, "it all matters"... but I think some matters more than others (maybe the 80/20 rule-of-thumb in play?).

Cheers,
Ray
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few." Shunryo Suzuki

 

RE: a few exceptions, posted on October 30, 2014 at 12:58:01
rage
Audiophile

Posts: 792
Joined: December 17, 2010
Off the top of my head -

Cathode bypass caps. When I put in .68uf on top of ~20uf it made a big difference that was clearly audible. Smaller caps less so. This was on the driver tube moreso than the output tube cathdoe bypass.

Changing types of caps for the bypass cap, particuarly the higher valued caps made a big difference.. IE poly vs oil or different brands like ASC vs GE vs Mundorf. Changing the size of the cap made a big difference also, which makes perfect sense. Going from 10uf on the output tube to 30uf added about an octave of bass that I didn't even realize I was missing. There was a bit of a compromise to the midrange with that change. I'd like to do it again with an FFT hooked up to really dial it in, however, when changing stuff like that and actually soldering the time between changes is pretty dramatic and its diffuclt to compare.

To me going from 1-2-3 runs of TCSS wasn't that easy to distignuish a difference. I can't imagine being able to add multiple runs of alligator clipped wire and hearing a difference given that you're lead lengths could be twice as long or more and the connection is questionable.

I can hear solder break in I'm pretty sure. I know people have criticized that idea on here but after freshly soldering I'll notice a harshness for a good 20-30 minutes before things settle down...again why I have a hard time believing one can add and remove so many bypass values and distinguish an improvement.

You really are listening through "layers" and to be able to identify the sonic signitaure of components takes practice and one could easily argue its all imagined. I'm somewhere in the middle on that.




 

RE: Pinging Vinnie, regarding clip leading ...., posted on October 30, 2014 at 14:32:07
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
I power down between changes, and play the same two cuts, directly into the amp, no attenuator, switches etc. Its easy on 100 dB speakers to hear this stuff.

There is no "single cap" solution, they all may measure wide band, but they all typically PLAY the voice coil of the speaker narrow band. Actually, its very exciting to hear what multiple bypasses can do, when you get the right types and values installed. No free lunch. Walt Jung and - mostly Richard Marsh - covered this 20+ years ago.

Jeff Medwin

 

RE: special wires ..., posted on October 30, 2014 at 14:37:17
Yes, I recall your displeasure with the whole rewire of the PT experiment.



I never tried the wire surgery because I was afraid to destroy a good $$$ magnetic component.


My latest wire experiment was after the amp vs. wire that was inside the amp.

I should have taken some ARTA acoustic measurements to see if there were any changes with the special JM/DF wires .

For now, I will just listen to the new wires and enjoy the music.

 

RE: Pinging Vinnie, regarding clip leading ...., posted on October 30, 2014 at 19:30:36
gusser
Audiophile

Posts: 3649
Location: So. California
Joined: September 6, 2006
Show me where Walt Jung specifically endorsed this multiple bypass cap idea? Other than the possible use of a couple of caps to get an exact value. Yes he did do a lot of work on capacitor induced distortion but let's not stretch that into your fantasy world.

 

RE: Pinging Vinnie, regarding clip leading ...., posted on October 31, 2014 at 16:01:43
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
Hi Gusser,

It is Richard Marsh, (who did work with Walter), in his papers from 20 plus years ago, that discusses the results and problems associated with multiple bypassing. Richard, of course, then introduces his "MultiCap" idea as an alternative.

That cap line is available today, made by REL, and stocked by Percy.

Jeff

 

RE: a few exceptions, posted on October 31, 2014 at 18:33:54
RC Daniel
Audiophile

Posts: 1922
Location: Brisbane
Joined: November 3, 2002
Thanks a heap rage! I am not surprised at your findings.

I get what you mean by listening through layers. In some ways it is much like trying to apply reductionist thinking to a system - trying to isolate the impact of a single intervention/ component within a system of multiple adapting and interacting parts, often using imprecise instruments/ records/ etc. Tough. Ultimately, what we learn from our investigations can help inform our choices - they are not isolated truths - but the final decision is made by listening through the system. Do we like the system or do we not?..

Thanks again,
Ray


"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few." Shunryo Suzuki

 

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