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RTR tape question

72.250.154.7
Posted on May 10, 2015 at 15:30:30
DRam
Audiophile

Posts: 1309
Location: Montana
Joined: July 30, 2005
 Pending Post by DRam (A) on May 10, 2015 at 15:17:28

The thread below impelled me to search tapes. A search for ATR brought up a site listing ATR Magnetics ATR1040907P tape pancakes. (link below) Below a list of specs there is a disclaimer stating that the specs given are suggestions only. Does that mean this tape is meant for professional or advanced users? Or is it something I can throw on my Akai GX636 and get good results?

I also found RMGl-EMTEC SM 900 tape at a similar price for pancakes.

What is the general opinion of these two tapes? And are there others that I should consider?

Thanks.

 

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RE: RTR tape question, posted on May 10, 2015 at 17:13:21
X-2000R
Audiophile

Posts: 335
Location: SoCal
Joined: March 1, 2006
 Yes. The short answer is that they are intended primarily for the studio or serious high end user. Half track, 15 ips or higher is probably the target audience for those tapes. But....

I can't think of any reason you couldn't use either tape aside from possible biasing issues on that machine. Both tapes *will* work, but you stand the chance of having a somewhat dull and flat sound because those are both high bias requirement tapes. So keep that in mind. The good news though is that you should be able to really run deep into the red without noticeable rolloff, saturation, or distortion.

I have not used SM-900 ( the proper brand name for current production is PYRAL. EMTEC and RMGI are now technically defunct; the latter is now a distributor in name only so now the oft used term of NOS has to apply to those names...just FYI), so I can't offer any first hand insight. My understanding is that it is a high end tape intended to compete with ATR, although what I've read seems to show some preference to the ATR brand.

I have however have used ATR Master on both my Teac X-2000R and it's half track sibling, the TASCAM 3030. On both machines, the tape sounded lovely and crystal clear. No major tweaking to any of the tone controls was needed.

The only *POSSIBLE* issue that may be of concern, and I say this not based on my experience, but that of others...is that with the thicker tapes, it *MIGHT* strain the capstan motor because of the extra torque and possibly not grab the tape as well, theoretically opening the door to slippage and azimuth mistracking. I personally feel that it's a remote at best concern. But I'm throwing it out there anyway.

3M # 996 is the "thickest" tape I know of in terms of how far a known, set footage will come to as far as how much it will fill a reel (a full 2400 of the stuff comes to within about an eighth of inch of the physical top of the reel), with both Quantegy #499 and GP9 being right there at almost the same level. ATR, unless it's changed recently, a full roll leaves about a quarter of inch room in the reel diameter. So if you've used any of those tapes with no problems, then I can't think of why ATR should be a cause for concern.

As I mentioned, I have not personally tried SM-900. But I have *SEEN* it firsthand. And a full roll leaves a heck of a lot more "room" in the reel, implying a somewhat thinner tape, which would imply it being less imposing on the decks motor transport.

So in short, I don't really think you have much to worry about. And if you prefer the shorter length tapes over long play, I'd say "go for it".

 

RE: RTR tape question, posted on May 10, 2015 at 18:19:59
tesla
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: San Diego County, California
Joined: October 25, 2000
 Ok, will my RS 1500 have problems with these tapes?







Proudly serving content-free posts since 1984.

 

Thanks for the input., posted on May 10, 2015 at 18:29:19
DRam
Audiophile

Posts: 1309
Location: Montana
Joined: July 30, 2005
 I'll try a pancake of each and compare.

 

RE: RS-1500, posted on May 10, 2015 at 18:32:12
X-2000R
Audiophile

Posts: 335
Location: SoCal
Joined: March 1, 2006
 I don't think it would be an issue. But with that deck, who knows. I've always been perplexed by it's circuitous, serpentine tape path. Maybe someone who uses one of those can chime in.

 

RE: RS-1500, posted on May 11, 2015 at 10:14:10
mcgjohn@yahoo.com
Industry Professional

Posts: 501
Location: Midwest
Joined: February 5, 2008
 The only Q I would have is the deck in question have enough bias current for 900. DRam did not mention which deck was intended for use. Some of the older decks can not put out enough bias current for 900. If that is not an issue, then would agree with the other posted comments.

 

RE: RTR tape question, posted on May 11, 2015 at 10:48:57
Inmate51
 I haven't personally used those tapes, but they have a good reputation. My experience is with Ampex 406/407/456, Agfa PEM 469, BASF, Maxell UD-35, TDK GX and Quantegy 499.

I hope you have some empty reels to spool your pancakes onto, 'cause working with pancakes is a pain.

A lot (most?) of audiophiles/amateurs like to use 1 mil tape because a reel of it is longer and therefore holds more music or whatever they're recording. 1.5 mil (such as your referenced ATR tape) is/was the standard for professional recording because of reduced print-through at high signal levels, and it will tolerate more physical abuse. At 15 ips, a 10.5" reel with 2500 feet of 1.5 mil tape will get you 33 minutes of recording time.

With regard to X-2000R's comment about thicker tapes and "slippage". This is audio folklore mythology. I suppose, on a poorly maintained machine, it "could" happen, but I've never seen it. In fact, my expectation would be that it would more likely happen with thinner tapes.

As far as recording quality is concerned, the high output class of tapes need two fundamental things in order to achieve their best performance. One, appropriately higher bias and HF output settings in the machine's record electronics. Two, record electronics which are capable of hitting the tape with a very strong signal with low distortion. This is because these tapes achieve their wider S/N ratio by being able to handle higher signal levels than "regular" tapes. Some well-designed "pro-sumer" machines can do this. Many middle-of-the-road consumer decks can't. In any case, the worst that can happen is that your deck can't hit the tape hard enough to take advantage of its capabilities - kind of like driving a NASCAR car on a highway with a 75 mph speed limit. But that's not a reason to not use it.

Lastly, even if you can't adjust the bias and EQ to get flat response, you may or may not even notice it, depending on your hearing and what you record.

By the way, your link is to the Full Compass shipping page, not to the ATR tape page. (Aside: I knew the owner of Full Compass, Jonathan Lipp, way back in the late 70s!)

:)

 

I did mention that, posted on May 11, 2015 at 19:02:58
DRam
Audiophile

Posts: 1309
Location: Montana
Joined: July 30, 2005
 my deck is an Akai GX636. I'll have find out what the bias current is, and if it's enough.

 

Reels and bias/EQ, posted on May 11, 2015 at 19:09:19
DRam
Audiophile

Posts: 1309
Location: Montana
Joined: July 30, 2005
 I have four empty 10.5 inch reels waiting to be filled. Bias/EQ - as far as my ears are concerned frequencies much over 6k don't exist. Darn it.

It would be nice to use 1 mil tape, I really would like a 3600' roll. Perhaps there's some around, I'll look.

 

That didn't take long., posted on May 11, 2015 at 19:22:21
DRam
Audiophile

Posts: 1309
Location: Montana
Joined: July 30, 2005
 Splicit Reel Audio Products has 3600' pancakes of LPR35 for $38.95. Compares to Quantegy 457. Overall that sounds like a better tape for my machine and needs.

The link! When I copied it and checked it out it came up with information about buying ATR tape and a spec sheet for same. Now it doesn't. Who knows what happened.

 

RE: PYRAL LPR-35, posted on May 12, 2015 at 07:05:18
X-2000R
Audiophile

Posts: 335
Location: SoCal
Joined: March 1, 2006
 My opinion is that PYRAL LPR-35 is closer to Maxell XLI or Quantegy 407 instead of 457. The top level Quantegy is kind of unique in terms of biasing which can make it hard to work with on some decks. Whereas the other tapes should be drop in ready. Plus the PYRAL tape is comparatively thin compared to the others.

 

RE: I did mention that, posted on May 13, 2015 at 09:52:44
mcgjohn@yahoo.com
Industry Professional

Posts: 501
Location: Midwest
Joined: February 5, 2008
 One indicator would be the bias table that is usually in the manual for the 636. Does this table show a bias setting for Scotch 250? This was a high bias tape back in the day. If not, then you likely won't be able to bias the deck for EMTEC 900.

Go for 911, which biases up very closely to the old ampex 456.

best

J

 

RE: I did mention that, posted on May 14, 2015 at 09:08:05
DRam
Audiophile

Posts: 1309
Location: Montana
Joined: July 30, 2005
 It does have a setting for Scotch 250. Thanks for the help.

 

RE: I did mention that, posted on May 14, 2015 at 09:45:49
mcgjohn@yahoo.com
Industry Professional

Posts: 501
Location: Midwest
Joined: February 5, 2008
 good. just keep in mind that a 250 bias setting does not mean you'll be able to bias up 900. It means you may have a chance. If there were no bias setting for 250, then it would mean you would have a very slim chance of being able to bias up 900. Be sure to use a tone generator. If you don't have one, there is a good available for free in the trial version of ARTA software. If you under bias, you may end up with a rising top end (upper freq) which will wear on you. Will also depend on the range of the pot used to set the record EQ if the 636 has one. If you don't have a record EQ pot, or at a given bias setting you run out of room on the pot, then forget the the 1 db of over bias, and go for flat freq response at 15K @ 7 1/2 ips. Your deck should do that. Don't forget to do a fresh head demag too before attempting the bias setting. Good luck!

 

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