Speaker Asylum

General speaker questions for audio and home theater.

Return to Speaker Asylum

Message Sort: Post Order or Asylum Reverse Threaded

Ribbons have ruined me forever.

166.82.238.39
Posted on March 27, 1999 at 17:30:28
Clayton Oxendine


 
I have just completed a speaker project using a 30" Newform ribbon and the new ScanSpeak 8530 split-cone 5" mid-woofer. First, the new SS driver is a good driver, but is a waste with this ribbon. I used two of these and in a 2.34 cu.ft sealed box, they are only down 4.7 db at 50 Hz. The kicker is that they have the specs for a vented alignment. They have the flattest impedance I have ever measured on a driver also. Cone-break up is not until 6 kHz. But like I said, they are a waste with the ribbon. The New form finally came alive today. It has so much low-level detail, that recording that I had been listening to with my Dynaudio's now have things on them that were not audiable before. The Dyna's sound like they have a veil over thing. I am ruined now. I can't go back to a boxed upper end and enjoy it. By the way. The entire xo consist of a single cap on the ribbon, and a single inductor on the woofer. First time I have been able to do this. I now need donations so I can purchase these ribbons at $300 a piece, but worth every cent. Link is below for Newform if you have not seen them.

Clayton

Newform

 

Hide full thread outline!
    ...
Re: & Cones are only good for bass!, posted on March 27, 1999 at 19:48:35
Tazsmonn


 
So too it goes for the owners of Magneplaners and like speakers, I will
never surrender the subwoofer from hell thou, it too can not be beat at what it does!

 

Re: Ribbons have ruined me forever., posted on March 27, 1999 at 22:55:18
Allan


 
I just bought some MMG's last week and i'm absolutely hooked too. A friend just called and he found a used pair of Apogee centaurs (500.00 in primo condition) and after hearing the ribbon sound of the MMG's, he's buying the Apogee - I don't blame him, it's an excellent deal. Our conversation drifted into Newform speakers and with the phone still in my ear, I loaded up the Asylum site and saw this message...I told him there's something in the air - the word's out - Ribbons are defintely cool.

btw - how much of a project is a Newform 'kit'? I'm inexperienced at building speakers, but I'm willing and capable of learning.



 

Re: Ribbons have ruined me forever., posted on March 28, 1999 at 02:55:40
Mart


 
1) I always use 1st order XOs. There is no sunstitute.

2) The problem with Dynaudio tweeters is the attenuation (albeit smooth) of the last octave that lots of audiophiles somehow tout as admirable. If you bypass the attenuating resistor properly this will open up too.

for a dynaudio 28mm dome use a 2.3 uF cap.

At least try it while your waiting for the funds for your new speakers. You will not believe they are the same tweeters.

 

Re: Ribbons have ruined me forever., posted on March 28, 1999 at 08:48:28
Clayton Oxendine


 
Actually Newform sells complete kits, all you do is put them together. But you would save considerable money just buying the raw drivers and do it yourself. The xo would be the problem if you have not ever done any speakers. But there are software programs for that. You can do the frequency response with a Radio Shack meter, and a Test CD with warble tones. The box is not to much a problem because with the Newform ribbons, they mount on top of the box, so there is not any need to in-set the tweeter, which is very difficult. If you are ever interested in doing a project with one, let me know, I would be glad to help.

Clayton

 

Re: Ribbons have ruined me forever., posted on March 28, 1999 at 08:50:35
Clayton Oxendine


 
Martin, I will try it. I have to do something to be able to tolerate the lowered resolution. Will let you know how it works.

Clayton

 

forgot 2 mention, posted on March 28, 1999 at 09:55:04
Mart


 
wire the new cap across both the resistor & the XO cap, otherwise the butting of the 2 caps does some non-linear garbage to the signal. I don't know why, since DC flows properly enough to eliminate the usual floating voltage problems associated with said construction, but there is a definite jitter-ish sound that propigates out.

 

The Problem with the Apogee Centaurus Ribbon Monitors..., posted on March 28, 1999 at 13:16:47
Dave VH


 
is very narrow vertical dispersion because of the ribbon being only 4" tall.

I had considered the Newforms myself because of the 30" ribbons with resulting better vertical dispersion, but settled on the Apogees for reasons including aesthetics and the WAF. The Apogees are excellent - very smooth and detailed without harshness, but the sweet spot is small. The bass is enough to give jazz string bass some real body, but not extended. The highs drop off drastically if I stand up from the sweet spot, but I can live with that, since I sit while listening, anyway.

Dave VH

 

Interesting point.., posted on March 28, 1999 at 13:34:25
Allan


 
The first thing I noticed about the MMG was that if you're above the speakers, there's nothing - nada,zip,zero! Dropping down into the sweet spot is a very abrupt experience. It's like you're either in or out, with nothing in between. Since I'm usually sitting down too, it's not a problem but the first time I heard this aspect of the ribbon speaker, it was actually startling. Tazsmonn has his on 24" stands; that might be something to experiment with as long as the lowering of the ears doesn't produce another exit from the "sound bubble" by going too far below.

 

It's called plannar response, posted on March 29, 1999 at 10:21:05
Edp


 
Your standup and go away experience. That's the design working.

 

How would you compare newform, posted on March 29, 1999 at 10:55:18
nataraj


 
with maggies ? Its too bad maggies are the only active ribbon manufacturers (and ML the only 'stats). Competition can only be for the better.

 

Re: How would you compare newform, posted on March 29, 1999 at 14:50:47
Gangsta'


 
maggies are somewhat full range planars (but do need a sub)... the newform is a fuller range tweeter replacement... I cringe to say that the newform is a tweeter replacement, but since they can only be crossed over as low as around 1K or less, then they can't really be considered a "full range" line source... newforms are more efficient than maggies, don't need a lot of power at all, are an easy load both impedence and power wise (will work with lower powered tubes!!) and will sound good with crappy electronics (they are at home being driven by a 20 watt NAD integrated to the most esoteric gear... something the martin logans can definitely _NOT_ say).. the newforms have _HUGE_ horizontal dispersion (i.e. large sweet spot as opposed to the "head in a vise" quality I have found with ML's), but are very easy to place in a listening room because they are monopole line sources... unlike the maggies and ML's, you don't have to deal with the backwaves from the film drivers in your room....

soundwise is all a matter of preference, and I can't tell you which you would like better.... I have heard maggies and especially ML's absolutely sing with the right gear.... but they aren't nearly as flexible as the newforms can be IMNSHO....

shane

 

Re: How would you compare newform, posted on March 29, 1999 at 21:53:14
Clayton Oxendine


 
The Newforms are monopoles, so will not reflect all over the rear wall. Will have a serious review when the boxes are damped and filled and final xo is installed this weekend. I have heard Maggies and because of these being monopole, I prefer them. I will be replacing my Dynaudio D-260 Esotec tweeters which I adore when it comes to dome tweeters, with the 45" Newforms when I can come up with the cash. I like them that well.

Clayton

 

Re: How would you compare newform, posted on March 30, 1999 at 08:46:37
nataraj


 
>they can only be crossed over as low as around 1K or less

why is that ? Can you do the cross over in the midrange ?

 

Re: How would you compare newform, posted on March 30, 1999 at 10:58:08
Gangsta'


 
>>they can only be crossed over as low as around 1K or less

>why is that ? Can you do the cross over in the midrange ?


oops... sorry about that... guess I should have been more clear in my use of the english language... they most certainly CAN be crossed over anywhere you choose.... I meant the lowest that you can possibly cross them over is about 1K or so as opposed to the "fuller range" qualities of the maggies... we crossed over my speakers that low so that we wouldn't have a crossover in the more sensitive midrange... much more seamless midrange as a result.... hope it is a bit clearer now...

 

Re: How would you compare newform, posted on March 30, 1999 at 14:29:42
nataraj


 
Okay. What you mean is they don't go below 1KHz. So where did you x-over ? I suppose it was above 2K (mid range being 200-2K). I once attended a lecture by the designer of arial (sp?) speakers, who adviced strongly against any x-over touching this decade. Afterall, our hearing is so sharp here that we can easily identify hundreds of voices.

 

Re: Ribbons have ruined me forever., posted on March 31, 1999 at 07:10:50
Q


 
How do you compare the Newforms to the German Manufacturer BG? Similar stuff, right? Only the BG's are said to deliver full-range (sans low bass)

I have yet to hear ribbons of this nature, but I CAN tell you I love the ribbon tweeter in my Legacy Focus, even though it doesn't cross till 12k!

 

Re: Ribbons have ruined me forever., posted on March 31, 1999 at 20:11:02
Clayton Oxendine


 
I have not heard the BG's so I can't say how they compare. I can see in a way why in a way that Legacy uses a ribbon so high, but in my opinion, you should let the ribbon handle as much as it can for the extra low-level detail they bring out. But size is important when it comes to ribbons and by the Legacy ribbon being small, you would have to keep your head in a vise to stay in the sweet spot. The thing with xo them over so high is that someone older who has lost a lot of their upper hearing would not benefit from them. If you ever decide to change speakers, you sould give the Newforms a listen. I think they are that good.

Clayton

 

Page processed in 0.016 seconds.

[ Top Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]