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Help me diagnose REL subwoofer issue.

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Posted on January 17, 2017 at 05:23:10
frogman
Industry Professional

Posts: 145
Joined: November 30, 2000
 I had the opportunity to buy two REL Storm III subs. I had used a single REL Strata for many years and have always wanted to try stereo subs. Well, everything that I have read about the use of stereo subs is true: smoother response and huge soundstage as well as other benefits. I bought one of the subs sight unseen(heard) and the price was so low that, in spite of an apparent issue, I decided to keep it. Here's the issue:

When I bought one of the subs I noticed that it seemed to have less output, or have lower input sensitivity, than what I was accustomed to after years of using the Strata (I use the High-level connections). I was surprised by this, but the sound seemed fine otherwise and I WAS getting enough output (just barely) for my setup with the volume knob almost maxed out. I then bought the second Storm and upon stalling it immediately noticed that this second Storm provided noticeably greater output and seemed to have somewhat better impact and definition. The same level of output can be achieved with the volume knob at around the 2/3-3/4 mark as opposed to almost maxed out. There is no distortion of the sound and no strange sounds of any kind. I called REL customer service about this as I wanted to have them check out the questionable amp module. To my surprise, they informed me that there is not much that they would be able to do as long as the amp is working; that this is a case of "if it makes undistorted sound, then it's working fine". ?!?! I plan on swapping out the amp modules to make sure that issue is not with the speaker itself and not the amp module that is causing reduced output; but, until then, I wondered if anyone has some thoughts on this and about what could be causing the reduced output. I have tried all the obvious things like swapping cables and positioning. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

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RE: Help me diagnose REL subwoofer issue., posted on January 17, 2017 at 07:16:17
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 Try switching subs from side to side. Make sure the problem is in the new sub.

REL uses a single RCA low level jack I believe. How are you hooking it up? Do you have two separate channels or are you "slaving" off one??

If it truly is low output than something IS wrong with the amp module. It should get very loud if you crank that volume level control up.

Set up the old sub just as you had it. Get to your normal level. then switch it out for the new sub and see if there is still a difference.

charles

PS stereo subs ARE the way to go!

 

RE: Help me diagnose REL subwoofer issue., posted on January 17, 2017 at 07:31:56
frogman
Industry Professional

Posts: 145
Joined: November 30, 2000
 Thanks for your response, Charles. I have experienced the same reduced output from the one sub when using it by itself or as a pair with the other. I use the high level connection to my tube monoblocs using the connection arrangement recommended by REL; they are and have been connected properly. I am surprised by the REL tech's contention that if it works at all it is fine since I have experienced output level issues with power amps in the past; so, I don't understand why the amp in the sub would be immune to similar issues.

 

RE: Help me diagnose REL subwoofer issue., posted on January 17, 2017 at 09:10:00
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 If all the settings are the same then your plate amp has a problem.

 

RE: Help me diagnose REL subwoofer issue., posted on January 17, 2017 at 11:51:13
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15518
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 check out the Plate Amp.

 

RE: Help me diagnose REL subwoofer issue., posted on January 17, 2017 at 19:15:55
neolith
Audiophile

Posts: 4842
Location: Virginia
Joined: February 21, 2002
Contributor
  Since: December 2, 2004
 The tech at Rel is giving you some bs. The two units should work the same - period. What you need is to feed a low frequency (30-40) hz sine wave signal into the amp and look at the output with an oscilloscope to see the distortion and amplitude (gain) of the amp. Of course, that means access to a scope. Perhaps there is a electronics repair service near you that can do the measurements and provide a picture which you can send to Rel.

BTW if you still have the Strata, you could swap the amp in the Storm. The wattage is lower but I believe the gain is the same and the Strata amp will probably sound fine at normal listening levels.




"Our head is round in order to allow our thoughts to change direction." Francis Picabia

 

RE: Help me diagnose REL subwoofer issue., posted on January 18, 2017 at 06:57:48
fredtr
Audiophile

Posts: 1987
Location: Phoenix
Joined: January 4, 2005
 High level connection? If that means what I think it does, straight from amplifier output? Don't do that if you can help it. Feed it at preamplifier levels even if you have to use Y connectors and see how they sound.

I will explain why. First you are adding amplifier distortion, when you don't need to. Second, it could be the problem in the one sub is only in the attenuation circuit, which you could potentially bypass.

 

RE: Help me diagnose REL subwoofer issue., posted on January 18, 2017 at 07:33:52
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 The OP said there was no distortion. But I would bet that there is but at a very low frequency, which would be hard to hear clearly. On a scope - bingo!

If all settings and connections are equal and it still has that problem - the plate amp is defective. Sounds like a blown CR/transistor on the volume or variable coil rolloff circuit. that wouldn't take the amp out but it would cause distortion and volume level problems. Not that it's going to fix anything - Sorry OP

I would try and run as HIGH a tone as possible and listen for any distortion.

 

RE: Help me diagnose REL subwoofer issue., posted on January 18, 2017 at 10:33:13
neolith
Audiophile

Posts: 4842
Location: Virginia
Joined: February 21, 2002
Contributor
  Since: December 2, 2004
 Your comments reminded me that the Rels have both high and low level inputs and separate pots for each. As a test, the OP could hook up the low level RCA's and see if the problem still exists. That would indicate that the pot for the high level is the culprit and perhaps a simple fix.



"Our head is round in order to allow our thoughts to change direction." Francis Picabia

 

RE: Help me diagnose REL subwoofer issue., posted on January 19, 2017 at 07:29:40
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
 Interesting??? I didn't know that. I though all RELs used only a low level input. And the two separate controls are weird but could be the issue is that is the case.

Anyway low output means that some minor part of the circuit isn't grounding, aka shorted or burnt out. If it were in the amp section it would just not work. So it has to be in the auto sensing or vol/roll section.

Either way the OP should contact who ever he bought the broken sub from and return it, if possible.

 

RE: Help me diagnose REL subwoofer issue., posted on January 20, 2017 at 15:47:08
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15518
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 I am a big REL fan- frogman

keep me posted on this development.

 

RE: Help me diagnose REL subwoofer issue., posted on January 22, 2017 at 06:40:50
frogman
Industry Professional

Posts: 145
Joined: November 30, 2000
 Will keep you all posted. Thanks all for your thoughts.

 

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