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STOP SENDING CHECKS!!!!!

108.235.157.25
Posted on January 25, 2016 at 19:08:55
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 I feel so bad for the guys that got ripped off by the piece of garbage Bob Olson and ccklone.

The only way to protect yourself is to use PAYPAL. If a vendor refuses to use paypal I simply don't buy it. Unless it's close enough to go see and try out first, I will not send a check.

Paypal holds your money in escrow until it gets an OK from you that the item has been received and is in good shape. Then it releases the money to the vendor. If you can't wait a few days to get your money that's a red flag.

Protect yourselves guys! If the vendor says the paypal fees are too high, then offer to pay the difference. If he still insists he won't so it even if you pay the difference, he's likely a thief. IMO it's cheap insurance. I think it's 7 bucks for every hundred dollars... but you won't be left holding a cancelled check while some asshole is laughing his way to the track or wherever he will quickly squander his ill-gotten gains.

 

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RE: STOP SENDING CHECKS!!!!! , posted on January 27, 2016 at 13:06:35
TimeConstant
 FWIW, I used Paypal to pay an Audiogon seller over a Dutch Transaction where 8 people were scammed $150 each by the same bogus seller of suposedly 8x Denon DL-160 cartridges.

Audiogon washed their hands
Paypal followed suit.

We all lost, and the bogus seller remained active on Audiogon.

So Paypal is not always a surefire way to pay, but I never went back to Audiogon ever, I just rely on the Ebay/Paypal combo for the occasional buy or sell.

 

RE: STOP SENDING CHECKS!!!!! , posted on January 28, 2016 at 04:40:26
reuben
Audiophile

Posts: 1639
Joined: September 28, 2004
 Always use a credit card with or without paypal for amounts you can't afford to lose...

reub

Dark energy? Ridiculous!
We live in an electric universe.

 

So what user name does he go by on Agon, posted on January 29, 2016 at 03:22:35
plugmein
Audiophile

Posts: 304
Location: mother-earth
Joined: March 4, 2007
 so all can be aware.

 

When did that happen? , posted on January 29, 2016 at 20:23:58
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 Recently? I don't think that happens anymore.

 

Yes... no bank account..., posted on January 29, 2016 at 20:27:16
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 I actually have both. I use the bank account for reputable retailers like when I bought a mini amp from Orb Audio.. but if it's some bloke from the other side of the pond... mastercard is yet another layer of protection.

If sites like Audiogon and Ebay don't protect buyers against fraud, they will see a drop in usage. Bad news travels fast on the intertube web.

 

RE: When did that happen? , posted on January 30, 2016 at 08:55:09
TimeConstant
 Yes this happened in 2007 and I don't have the info handy, but I did post about it on the Asylum at that time.

So it wasn't recent.

 

That was back in the dark ages. , posted on January 30, 2016 at 09:11:16
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 Over 8 years ago Paypal and Ebay were still trying to sort things out. Nowadays its much safer for the buyer. The money was not held in escrow back then. If you order anything through ebay its automatic. The seller will not get the money until the buyer releases it by acknowleging the item has been delivered AND that it is as described. I am not sure but I think this can also be done with private sellers and other auction sites like audiogn.

Any seller that wont adhere to the escrow protection using paypal is an instant "no sale" from me. I will pay the fee associated with this protection. When I sell something I insist on using it as well. It avoids 99% of possible issues with the exception of "assholeitis" which has no cure.

 

RE: That was back in the dark ages. , posted on January 31, 2016 at 16:56:46
Dogface1956
Audiophile

Posts: 685
Location: No. California
Joined: December 18, 2005
 I am not sure where you are getting that PayPal holds money in an escrow account until the buyer releases it by acknowleging the itme as delivered and as described, but that is certainly not true. I sell many items on eBay and the money is available to me the seller as soon as it hits my PayPal account, I can transfer it to my bank account any time.

If the buyer contacts PayPal and opens an case against me, PayPal can either put a hold on the money if it is in my PayPal account or if the money is not there put a hold on my account, but PayPal is not the same as an escrow account and never has been.

If the seller is dishonest and they sell something for $10,000 and the buyer pays via PayPal, the seller can transfer the money to their bank account, close that bank account or move the money to another account and PayPal can't get at the money. I have heard of this happening, but have never seen it myself as either a buyer or seller. I don't know what PayPal does if this happens if they refund the money to the buyer and go after the seller or if they tell the seller they are out of luck.

There is no sure thing in the world and dishonest people will always figure out a way to work the system to get your money if they really want to.

Jeff
We’re Burning Daylight

 

RE: That was back in the dark ages. , posted on February 1, 2016 at 21:10:19
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 Then I must be insane. Because the last three items I sold that is exactly what happened. The item sold, the money was "paid" but not released to me until the buyer gave his OK.

I also must be hallucinating the thousands of posts on ebay forums and youtube videos complaining, discussing or advising how to get around the "paypal hold" or the "ebay hold."

I must be misreading the results when I Google "ebay holds your money" and discussions complaining about this practice have been posted since 2008.

Keep sending checks then. No skin off my ass.

 

RE: That was back in the dark ages. , posted on February 2, 2016 at 18:13:19
Dogface1956
Audiophile

Posts: 685
Location: No. California
Joined: December 18, 2005
 Yup you are insane, I have never had to have a buyer release funds, never. A paypal or ebay hold are after the buyer files a complaint. You go on being insane, I have over 4,000 transactions on eBay and PayPal and never once has my money been held until the buyer gives his OK, never.

The only time PayPal holds your money are the following:

1. You're a new seller with PayPal. Once your identity is confirmed and you have built up a history of sales and happy customers, PayPal removes the holds.

2. You customers indicate issues about your selling performance. Peformance is based on your percentage of refunds, disputes and chargebacks compared to sales on your PayPal account. Working to prevent and resolve problems quickly will help you AVOID the delay in available funds.

3. There is a higher than average risk associated with your sales activity. Selling what PayPal considers high-risk items, like tickets, gift cards, computers, trave packages. Another example of high risk sales activity is a recent spike in sales or historical change in the average selling price or type of item being sold. High risk could also mean your account has suspicious account behavior or more likely to have disputes, claims, buyer chargeback or other reversals.

So in other words if you have a good record of selling, with few customer issues PayPal DOES NOT put a hold on your funds until the buyer gives his approval. I believe that most PayPal accounts fall into this category, but obviously your's does not so maybe you have some clean-up work to do.

Jeff
We’re Burning Daylight

 

RE: That was back in the dark ages. , posted on February 2, 2016 at 18:15:19
Dogface1956
Audiophile

Posts: 685
Location: No. California
Joined: December 18, 2005
 Oh and I am never stupid enough to send a check for something I have purchased online from someone I have never met, that does not live anywhere near me. So who is the insane one.
We’re Burning Daylight

 

RE: That was back in the dark ages. , posted on February 2, 2016 at 18:30:45
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 I may not have over 4000 transactions but I do have over 200 and a 100% positive feedback profile. So no clean up needed.

I love how you dont even acknowledge the proof i offered. 4000 transactions indicates a commercial account (maybe?) so that may be different. I know what I have experienced in the last year selling things like a pro-ject speed box and a 1969 road runner thumbwheel radio.

I actually made my initial post to try to help people not get fucked over. Thats the point. I will not reapond to anymore of this ridiculous tomfoolery. It helps no one and I refuse to feed the troll any more.

Good day.

 

RE: That was back in the dark ages. , posted on February 2, 2016 at 22:13:46
Dogface1956
Audiophile

Posts: 685
Location: No. California
Joined: December 18, 2005
 If you are giving out wrong information you are not helping anyone, and you are giving out wrong information. And no I don't have a commerical account. The information I put in my last post is directly from the PayPal web-page, not from some guys talking on youtube. I am all for helping people from getting ripped off and using PayPal is better then mailing a check, but it is still not complete protection from getting ripped off. I am against giving people a false sense of security that payiing by PayPal will give them 100% protection, it does not.

Jeff

We’re Burning Daylight

 

RE: STOP SENDING CHECKS!!!!! , posted on February 17, 2016 at 00:31:58
genungo
 That's a pretty good rule but, IMO, the best rule is no rule (or at least, fewer rules) at all.

As a seller, I stopped promoting and accepting most Paypal payments years ago. True, Paypal is convenient and "safe" in some ways but I have grown to resent the amount of influence that credit card companies are exerting in the realms of commercial transaction and ultimately, personal relations. So, I continue to state upfront that my preferred method of payment is genuine USPS money order via snail mail.

Why? Mostly because, I hate most banks and credit card companies. BASICALLY, I think they are greedy scumbags.

And yet, I have managed to accrue a long history of excellent seller feedback in a number of venues because I offer great bargains, I package my items well, and I am open and honest in my dealings and communications. I continue to maintain that a personal phone call can tell me most of what I need to know about any businessman's character.

It also helps that, usually, I am in no hurry to sell. I know that I am swimming against the tide here but I don't care. Anyone who has ever bought from me knows that I am a blessing to commerce and to humanity in general.

It's true that there are very few (if any) infallible guarantees in life. But I think I'll always prefer a bit of warm, old-fashioned slop to the ongoing procreation of coldness and mistrust.

Die, yuppie scum! (Maybe not you personally, but I think you get the idea.)

 

RE: STOP SENDING CHECKS!!!!! , posted on February 17, 2016 at 03:27:22
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 I love it.

As a buyer, I can't wait for the day you have a 120v speed regulator I can use with my MMF-5. My money order will be in an envelope with a stamp faster than you can say "Lobster Thermidor aux crevettes with a Mornay sauce, garnished with truffle pâté, brandy and a fried egg on top, and Spam." :)

 

RE: STOP SENDING CHECKS!!!!! , posted on February 20, 2016 at 08:59:05
genungo
 I shall not disappoint.

 

RE: STOP SENDING CHECKS!!!!! , posted on March 8, 2017 at 07:59:24
Bob Olson1
Audiophile

Posts: 21
Joined: December 29, 2010
 Nice of you, Michael Campbell, to advise your potential scam victims on how not to get hurt when you rip them off. All of us who have earlier sent you checks and never gotten what we paid for would have appreciated this advice earlier. Now we have to come after you in court.

 

RE: STOP SENDING CHECKS!!!!! , posted on March 9, 2017 at 16:58:43
Bob Olson1
Audiophile

Posts: 21
Joined: December 29, 2010
 MannyE, I want to apologize. I misinterpreted the first line of your post and thought you were Michael Campbell, who has fleeced so many of us here and on other audiophile sites. Your comments about the danger of sending checks are well taken and I hope people heed them - Thanks! Bob

 

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