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Upgrade?

69.114.229.1

Posted on March 6, 2016 at 08:01:46

kev.pfeifle
Audiophile

Posts: 44
Joined: June 27, 2011

Hello All,
I have a question that I know will be hard to answer. To get into the SET world, I purchased a Musical Paradise MP-301. I'm using Texton Mini Lore's as speakers and a turntable as a source. Been really thinking about upgrading to a Decware Super Zen Triode, but not sure how much of an improvement it would be over my current amp (which I have already upgraded with replacement tubes). Has anybody elss been down this same route? Any suggestions?

Kevin

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TubeDriver

09:44:48 03/06/16

kev.pfeifle

10:05:09 03/06/16

TubeDriver

14:06:02 03/06/16

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TubeDriver

09:44:48 03/06/16

kev.pfeifle

10:05:09 03/06/16

TubeDriver

14:06:02 03/06/16

kev.pfeifle

06:11:10 03/07/16

Speakers and tubes

Frihed89

09:19:57 03/07/16

2a3 is a very good idea

andy evans

02:47:43 03/09/16

RE: 2a3 is a very good idea

drlowmu

09:02:31 03/11/16

RE: 2a3 is a very good idea

Jim Hodgson

11:08:17 03/09/16

RE: 2a3 is a very good idea

SETdude

12:47:39 03/09/16

RE: 2a3 is a very good idea

kev.pfeifle

17:39:31 03/09/16

RE: 2a3 is a very good idea

SETdude

02:59:19 03/12/16

Frihed89

07:26:40 03/11/16

RE: 2a3 is a very good idea

Rod M

17:47:21 03/09/16

Frihed89

07:19:24 03/12/16

RE: 2a3 is a very good idea

SETdude

03:01:58 03/12/16

RE: 2a3 is a very good idea

cabelok

12:17:17 03/20/16

RE: 2a3 is a very good idea

Mick Wolfe

14:11:14 03/11/16

RE: Speakers and tubes

kev.pfeifle

08:16:13 03/08/16

RE: Upgrade?, posted on March 6, 2016 at 09:44:48

TubeDriver
Audiophile

Posts: 794
Location: East Coast
Joined: February 16, 2007

Never owned either of these amps but a couple observations. The Decware amp has some nicer features (made in the usa, hardwired, some higher level components like caps, OT, a long history of revisions dialing in performance) when compared to the MP301. I also like the EL84 in both SE Triode, pentode and PP applications (I currently own 2 DIY SE EL84 amps and a DIY PP EL84 monoblocks), it is just a great sounding little pentode. But the Decware has significantly less output than the MP301 (2.5wpc vs 6.5wpc) which my be an issue depending on the size of your room, how loud you listen, distance to speakers, type of music you prefer?

What do you find lacking with your current setup? That would help folks help you figure out what might be the next reasonable step? What is the rest of your system (table, cart, phono pre etc)?

RE: Upgrade?, posted on March 6, 2016 at 10:05:09

kev.pfeifle
Audiophile

Posts: 44
Joined: June 27, 2011

Thanks for getting back to me! My room is about 12' X 14'. Don't think the reduced power will be a problem as I never use the MP-301 past a quarter volume. I listen to a bit of everything, but mostly jazz, electronic and female vocals (singer songwriter stuff). My other stuff is a Music Hall 7.1 turntable with a Dynavector 10x5 cart and a Musical Surroundings Phonomena II preamp. As far as what I want to upgrade, it's hard to say as I have not really heard any higher end gear. I kind of liked the Decware because it was a modest step up in price and for most of the reasons you stated, USA made, point to point wiring over PC board and a long history.

RE: Upgrade?, posted on March 6, 2016 at 14:06:02

TubeDriver
Audiophile

Posts: 794
Location: East Coast
Joined: February 16, 2007

No really weak link in your system so at some point an amp upgrade could be a next step. My sense is that the Decware (which I have heard, however I have not heard the MP301) will sound somewhat better overall but both amps are similar type SE pentodes with fairly modest power supplies. I think it would be more of a lateral move than the type of difference you want when moving to a new amplifier.

I would probably hang on to your current amp and try to hear some SE DH triodes (2A3s, 300Bs etc) and consider moving up this way at some point.

RE: Upgrade?, posted on March 7, 2016 at 06:11:10
kev.pfeifle Audiophile Posts: 44 Joined: June 27, 2011	Thanks TubeDriver, that's very helpful information!

Speakers and tubes, posted on March 7, 2016 at 09:19:57

Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 15703
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005

If your speakers are really 95dB sensitive and if the average 8 Ohm load is "friendly" (impedance at specific frequencies does not fall down to, say, 4 Ohms or less, there are no sharp negative phase angles, and the load does not consistently rise or fall as a function of frequency), you probably use a 2A3 tube amp in SE without any porblems and a 300B amp in SE for sure. I run 0.8W SE amp on a tube-friendly, 95dB sensitive set of speakers in a small room!

RE: Speakers and tubes, posted on March 8, 2016 at 08:16:13
kev.pfeifle Audiophile Posts: 44 Joined: June 27, 2011	Frihed89, thanks for the information about speakers. I will look into amps using those types.

2a3 is a very good idea, posted on March 9, 2016 at 02:47:43
andy evans Audiophile Posts: 4382 Joined: October 20, 2000	Go for a 2a3 amp if you can find a good one. Excellent call. Better sound to my ears than 300B and could be cheaper.

RE: 2a3 is a very good idea, posted on March 9, 2016 at 11:08:17
Jim Hodgson Audiophile Posts: 399 Location: New York City Joined: March 9, 2006	OP seems to enjoy rolling tubes and dialing in his sound. Is 2a3 really an affordable way for him to go?

RE: 2a3 is a very good idea, posted on March 9, 2016 at 12:47:39
SETdude Audiophile Posts: 3944 Joined: January 20, 2000	Search the auction site for the Inspire amps that Dennis Had founder of Cary Audio is selling. You may have to search the sold listings. They sound much better that they should given the price. Single ended, class A, hand wired point to point, made in USA and can use a lot of different pentodes. 5-12 watts depending on the tube compliment.

RE: 2a3 is a very good idea, posted on March 9, 2016 at 17:39:31

kev.pfeifle
Audiophile

Posts: 44
Joined: June 27, 2011

Actual do enjoy tube rolling, kind of what got me into tube equipment in the first place, kind of amazing to me how you can vary the sound. The Dennis Had Inspire amps look really nice, there is one (that I saw) up on the auction site. As far as 2a3 amps go, any commercial makers give you the option of running 2a3 or 45 in the same amp? I know the voltages are different, so there would have to be a jumper or something to change it, but it seems like a cool option if available!

RE: 2a3 is a very good idea, posted on March 9, 2016 at 17:47:21
Rod M Web Geek Posts: 16246 Location: So. California Joined: March 1, 1999 Contributor Since: March 1, 1999	Mine have a switch for 45 vs 2A3. For my 95db Straight 8s, I preferred a 300B amp. The 2A3 just didn't quite have enough gas in a larger room and the 45s really need speakers that are up in the 100+db range to do them justice. -Rod

Yes, posted on March 11, 2016 at 07:26:40
Frihed89 Audiophile Posts: 15703 Location: Copenhagen Joined: March 21, 2005	Fi Audio (Don Garber) in Brooklyn offers 2A3/45 stereo and mono amps, with just a change in the rectifier. But the wait time is very long. No better deal around.

RE: 2a3 is a very good idea, posted on March 11, 2016 at 09:02:31
drlowmu Manufacturer Posts: 9730 Location: East of Kansas City Joined: January 10, 2005	For 95 dB, I agree. If the OP has it in his budget, he should simply get a new Serious Stereo 2A3 amp, and be DONE with amplification. Jeff Medwin

RE: 2a3 is a very good idea, posted on March 11, 2016 at 14:11:14
Mick Wolfe Audiophile Posts: 3365 Location: AZ Joined: October 10, 1999 Contributor Since: September 4, 2000	I have to somewhat agree. I had the Tekton M-Lore for about a year and the 95db efficiency rating might be a tad optimistic. Ran it with a P-P 40 watter with excellent results. Your 300B suggestion would be as low in power as I would go ( roughly 8-10 watts) for reasonable SPL's.

RE: 2a3 is a very good idea, posted on March 12, 2016 at 02:59:19
SETdude Audiophile Posts: 3944 Joined: January 20, 2000	Dennis does build 2A3 and 45 amps. So far I'm resisting. The pentode amps are simply excellent. I also bought a 27 tube triode preamp that is dead quiet and very affordable.

RE: 2a3 is a very good idea, posted on March 12, 2016 at 03:01:58
SETdude Audiophile Posts: 3944 Joined: January 20, 2000	I agree with Rod. You really need the right speakers for flea power to shine.

"Large room", posted on March 12, 2016 at 07:19:24
Frihed89 Audiophile Posts: 15703 Location: Copenhagen Joined: March 21, 2005	This is important. Big room...you may need more sensitive speakers So is the kind of music. If your music pretty much all sounds like "I don't want to be a hero", you will be OK. The more complex the music, and/or with dynamic peaks, the more sensitive the speakers you need. Easy to drive (high impedance) speakers can also trump some sensitivity.

RE: 2a3 is a very good idea, posted on March 20, 2016 at 12:17:17

cabelok
Audiophile

Posts: 150
Location: Phoenix
Joined: September 9, 2015

Maybe this is sacrilegious but I've supplemented my SETup with 2x10" powered subs. Maybe I'm lucky but they seamlessly integrated. Before I did this I listened mainly to bebop and acoustic music, mainly blues everything else that needed a bit more power was flat with poor dynamics. Now everything is enjoyable, a bass guitar actually sounds and feels like one. Especially my live recordings have seen a fantastic improvement.

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