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Psvane 845T Mk II

5.68.61.25
Posted on February 15, 2016 at 05:10:04
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2378
Joined: September 27, 2004
 I've just ordered a pair of these tubes. Can anyone provide a link to useful reviews, or who could describe their advantages and disadvantages compared with Psvane Hi-Fi 845 or Shuguang 845C?

Presumably all these are far better than the standard 845 supplied with most 845-based amps such as Consonance Cybers.

What's the BIAS voltage implications of a change to 845T if any?

Peter

 

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That Was A Mistake!, posted on February 15, 2016 at 13:56:14
thetubeguy1954
Audiophile

Posts: 6112
Location: Orlando, Fla
Joined: January 7, 2001
 You should have purchased their Psvane WE845 tubes! They are more then worth the difference in price over the 845T MKII.

You should read my reply to your post on the Tubes Asylum. You can get to it at the link below...



Thetubeguy1954 (Tom)

Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers


 

RE: That Was A Mistake!, posted on February 15, 2016 at 14:09:37
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2378
Joined: September 27, 2004
 The Psvane WE845 isn't available in UK and I've no idea where I could have got them. What price and where from? Where can I read about the differences in the various 845s?

Why they're called WE I can't understand as Western Electric never manufactured 845s I'm reliably told!

Thanks

 

RE: That Was A Mistake!, posted on February 15, 2016 at 15:26:27
danlaudionut
Audiophile

Posts: 5480
Location: Schenectady
Joined: June 6, 2002
 Here is their explanation of the Psvane WE845.

DanL



 

RE: That Was A Mistake!, posted on February 15, 2016 at 19:48:01
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3364
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 Doesn't Grant Fidelity ship to the U.K.? Maybe not...just wondering.

 

RE: That Was A Mistake!, posted on February 16, 2016 at 00:13:00
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 15703
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
 Welcome to the world of shopping in the US from the EU! I learned to bite the bullet long ago and pay the shipping + VAT to Denmark.

 

RE: That Was A Mistake!, posted on February 16, 2016 at 05:07:15
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2378
Joined: September 27, 2004
 Thanks for that - I read it and a few other WW845 and 845T Mk II articles yesterday. They nearly all come from Psvane sites so a pinch of salt may be advisable.

I've gone for the Ts because that was the best I could find on Ebay UK or from UK-based suppliers. The £300 price (inc 20% VAT and P&P) is about half the cost to a WE845 - the WEs would probably be even more if I was clobbered by tax when imported from a US, HK or China supplier.

I'm not against importing direct but things can go wrong. It often takes a long time, you're dealing with someone you know nothing about and Ebay (the intermediate agent) is disinterested if things go wrong. I imported a pair of 845Cs a couple of years ago to find one broken on delivery. The China based supplier refused to accept photo evidence and insisted I return the broken item within an unreasonably time. I didn't bother so now have a single 845C - not much use.

Peter

 

RE: Psvane 845T Mk II, posted on February 18, 2016 at 08:16:18
calloway
Audiophile

Posts: 729
Joined: February 12, 2000
 I would certainly give Rachel ..at Grant Fidelity..in Canada..a call. I have the 845 WEs and they are superb..My guess is that they DO ship to Europe..

 

RE: Psvane 845T Mk II, posted on February 18, 2016 at 08:22:43
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2378
Joined: September 27, 2004
 Thanks calloway, but take a look at my recent Psvane story on the Tubes section - link below.

That's the reason I don't want to buy from overseas. My last 2 valve orders have required a return to the supplier.

Peter

 

RE: Psvane 845T Mk II, posted on February 18, 2016 at 09:18:40
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3364
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 I've ordered several vacuum tubes from Grant Fidelity with no issue whatsoever. Now if you're dealing with an eBay seller directly out of China, different story.

 

RE: Psvane 845T Mk II, posted on February 18, 2016 at 10:07:30
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2378
Joined: September 27, 2004
 > I've ordered several vacuum tubes from Grant Fidelity with no issue whatsoever

I'm sure you're right but if anything does have to be returned (careless handling by any of the numerous agencies involved in a 6000 mile delivery, or faulty manufacture such as my photo on Tubes shows) it's no help to think the supplier is as honest as the day is long. It's not his fault the tube is broken, nor his fault that the locking pin was wrongly placed, but I'd be 6000 miles away when I find it needs replacing.

One is still buying a product that is made in China and incredibly fragile. I'll still buy locally (within UK) if I can.

Peter

 

RE: Psvane 845T Mk II, posted on February 18, 2016 at 10:50:17
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3364
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 Well then I hope your UK distributor finds a better Chinese source. That tube looks like nothing more than the bad result of an eBay crap shoot.

 

+1 on the Psvane 845WE, posted on February 18, 2016 at 12:17:26
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3364
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 nt

 

RE: Psvane 845T Mk II, posted on February 18, 2016 at 14:08:23
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2378
Joined: September 27, 2004
 Mick - Not sure I understand you point. These tubes are undoubtedly genuine Psvane ones imported by a reputable distributor - and not sold through Ebay, not that that is relevant.

The fact that one has been badly assembled should have been caught by Psvane's quality control. It wasn't, so it has ended up in the legitimate retail market. Unfortunately I happened to be the unlucky customer.

The point of my posting was to illustrate the advantage of buying from a local outlet rather than from US, HK, China, Canada, etc. I can easily phone the dealer who is in UK and get the faulty item back for a quick exchange.

What's your point please?

 

RE: Psvane 845T Mk II, posted on February 18, 2016 at 16:53:34
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3364
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 The way I understand it, the tubes from Psvane or Shuguang are bought by resellers or distributors. They don't come to you factory direct. I've gotten Psvane tubes thru Grant Fidelity direct from China, but the return address is never Psvane or Shuguang Tube Factory. There is a secondary distribution network in China involved. All I'm saying is that within this "network" of resellers, some are more QC oriented than others to say the least. I didn't make this up, read it for yourself on the Grant Fidelity site.

 

RE: Psvane 845T Mk II, posted on February 19, 2016 at 02:09:33
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2378
Joined: September 27, 2004
 Well, it's to be expected that a large manufacturer won't be selling direct to the consumer. Your BMW car or Tannoy speakers will have been handled by distributors and dealers before you get your hands on them. However, one expects the costly things one buys to have been reasonably well inspected before packaging at the factory. A few duffs will always slip through and my tube seems to be one of those.

I'm not blaming anyone - faulty products are inevitable from time to time, but I'm saying that I'm glad I bought them through a UK dealer. Otherwise I'd be faced with a much more costly return carriage, a protracted correspondence with a supplier who probably speaks little English, a possibility that they simply won't replace them (I'd have no legal recourse) and a lengthy wait for another set - that may or may not survive the journey from half way round the world.

As it is, my dealer is at the end of a phone (local rate), has agreed to replace and has more in stock. And I would have Trading Standards on my side if I don't get a fair and satisfactory outcome. I wouldn't have those benefits if I'd even bought from Canada.

Your claim that within the network of resellers some are more QC oriented than others is in fact likely to be false. These tubes were still in a factory-sealed box. I'd prefer it that way than receive them in an obviously opened box. How could the QS oriented dealer know whether the sealed box contained a duff tube?

Peter

Peter

 

The only problem I've ever had with 845s involved the 845T, posted on February 19, 2016 at 05:17:21
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 I bought a pair of 845T tubes from Grant Fidelity and one of them died after 14 months. I replaced it with a single from Grant Fidelity and did something unutterably stupid -- in handling them, I got confused about which one was the new tube and which one was from the original pair. Then, In a year, another 845T died, and of course I didn't know whether it was the new one or the old one.

So I got a pair of 845C (metal plate) tubes from another seller, and when these survived, bought a back-up pair. All four of the 845C tubes have lasted ever since (quite a few years).

I have no personal experience with the newer 845T II variety, but I'd be leery about this tube for the above reason.

 

RE: Psvane 845T Mk II, posted on February 19, 2016 at 05:44:43
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3364
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 Once again and for the last time, the statements on the Chinese distribution process are from the Grant Fidelity website, not "my" claims. Secondly, I will assume they know more about this process than you do. If this is case, then your last statement makes absolutely no sense. A Chinese "re-seller" with QC in mind WOULD open the factory sealed box and inspect the contents for a broken or "duff" tube before shipping to a final destination. With this all said, if you're most comfortable dealing with your UK distributor and he gets you a proper 845, that's all that counts.

 

RE: The only problem I've ever had with 845s involved the 845T, posted on February 19, 2016 at 08:01:24
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2378
Joined: September 27, 2004
 Dave - Thanks for sharing that tale.

I bought a pair of Shuguang 856Cs about 4 years ago, direct from HK or China. Unfortunately one was broken on arrival and I gave up trying to get it replaced. However the limited tests I could do on a single channel led me to think this was a much better valve than the original 845s supplied with the amps.

As the originals were 10 years old I replaced them with a pair of Psvane HiFi tubes. An improvement over my original 845s but probably not as good as the Cs.

I read a bit about the Psvane 845T and found a UK supplier who claimed they were very good. They were 3 times the price of the HiFi ones from the same manufacturer, so I anticipate they'll be better sound-wise. My supplier is sending me a fresh pair with a "return carriage paid" label for me to return the faulty ones. I'm hoping for lovely music next week!

Of course, as soon as I'd posted about my T purchase a couple of guys here said "big mistake - you should have gone for the Psvane WE845s". Well, they're probably better still, but double the price of the Ts and 4+x the price of HiFi or C. If I bought the WEs, someone else would no doubt have said "big mistake - for just twice that price you could have found some NOS ones" Maybe it's best never to post anything here!

As an aside, I've been away from AA for 4 or 5 years and recently returned to seek ideas for replacing my tube amps for a solid state one that would offer similar sound - but better! Most of the suggestions were without much merit - I tried a few, but they were well short of the enjoyment-factor that a good SET offers. A Sudgen has offered the best SS sound to date. However one suggestion stuck in my mind - Accuphase Class A amps, probably the A36 or its predecessors. These are daft prices and virtually unheard of in UK - and few and far between in US too I understand. They've never been reviewed by Stereophile as far as I know.

In the complete absence of any A36 in UK (new or used), the more I read about them the more I thought the A36 may be the best SS amp for my Avantgarde speakers. Well today (and please don't tell anyone) I found a 1 year old used one offered by an Accuphase dealer in Denmark. After a quick phone call, I've rather rashly bought it unseen and unheard. I'll learn next week if I've made another "big mistake". I sincerely hope not but I'll be able to compare it directly with my newly re-tubed Cyber 845 monos.

Peter

 

RE: Psvane 845T Mk II, posted on February 19, 2016 at 08:11:45
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2378
Joined: September 27, 2004
 For the last time, I'd rather buy from a UK supplier than one half way round the world - for an identical product.

There's no smaller chance that a Canadian supplier would have a faulty-assembled valve in his inventory than a UK supplier.

And certainly a Canadian supplier would not send me a replacement set and a free carriage return label that will arrive within a couple of days.

I'm sure your Canadian chum is a very good chap, but I'm not going to buy from him when there's an equally good chap selling the same stuff here in UK.

No more please

 

Shuguang 845B:$138/ea. from The Tube Store, posted on February 19, 2016 at 11:25:31
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 15703
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
 This is a nice tube. I've heard them in the deHavilland monos. I also see an 845C for $145/ea., but never have heard it.

You can get these from the Tube Amp Doctor (DE) for €249/pair. Woops No VAT included, so add the DE VAT.

I have never bought a PS Vane tube in my life due to the large number of reliability and QC issues, I have read about. I have bought Shuguang 300Bs and KT88s and found them very good and reliable. I have had both for about 5 years.

 

Have you or Mick had the 845 WEs long enough ..., posted on February 20, 2016 at 06:18:59
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 ... to attest to their longevity? At their price I would expect them to last a good, long time.

 

RE: Have you or Mick had the 845 WEs long enough ..., posted on February 20, 2016 at 08:39:28
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3364
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 Dave.....since early Jan. of this year, so pretty early in the mission.

 

RE: Have you or Mick had the 845 WEs long enough ..., posted on February 21, 2016 at 06:43:43
calloway
Audiophile

Posts: 729
Joined: February 12, 2000
 I have had my mine for 1 yr or about 1000 hrs so far. I have had no problems ..They are superb.

 

RE: Psvane 845T Mk II, posted on February 21, 2016 at 06:48:23
calloway
Audiophile

Posts: 729
Joined: February 12, 2000
 cawson...i,too, had to send one pair of my WEs back due to a filament problem,probably related to the shipment, but Rachel took care of the return immediately...She is very professional in her handling of problems.

 

RE: That Was A Mistake!, posted on March 10, 2016 at 11:37:43
Ed Sawyer
Audiophile

Posts: 2595
Joined: November 3, 2000
 Good bit of fluff/BS in that page. Particularly about WE284 vs. RCA 845, etc. It's not like consumers used these, and the folks that did (theaters) were more concerned with lifetime and cost than anything to do with the sound per se. Not only that, but of course WE didn't sell tubes or gear to anyone, it was always leased, and only to commercial clients (e.g. theaters, broadcasters, etc.) - thus no one was really tuberolling 845s back in the 1930s and the WE 284 never "set the new standard".

there's no real "replica" going on here. they are most similar to the GE-845 internal construction more than anything else. The tipped bulb looks cool but is only for looks, not function (there's a reason they stopped making tipped bulbs for these tubes in the 1930s or so.)

I will agree that WE 284s are certainly rare (though I do have a few) but the biggest differences with the early 845s and later ones were the metal plates (and limited dissipation) vs. the later graphite plates. Even WE switched to graphite plates for some of their 284s (and other similar tubes.)

-Ed

 

RE: That Was A Mistake!, posted on March 11, 2016 at 09:33:41
Palustris
Audiophile

Posts: 2408
Location: Cape Cod
Joined: September 12, 2008
 That document from Psvane is simply a marketing tool full of the hyperbole and one expects from those in the business of selling fantasy, nostalgia, and myths: "In 1937, Western Electric responded to competition from RCA845 with their newly designed WE284A - which was considered by users to deliver more lively sound than the RCA845"

 

RE: That Was A Mistake!, posted on March 14, 2016 at 23:01:24
Naz
Audiophile

Posts: 2184
Location: Sydney
Joined: September 2, 2005
 Hey Ed,

Good info and I can't agree more that the Psvane WE845 resemble the structure of GE845 tubes more than anything internally. Interesting that they sound so different and better IMO.

I'd wish you could hear them because most here would value your opinion.

Naz

 

RE: That Was A Mistake!, posted on March 15, 2016 at 09:54:53
Ed Sawyer
Audiophile

Posts: 2595
Joined: November 3, 2000
 hi Naz -

Thanks, I will get some one of these days and compare to what I have on hand. It would be interesting to hear the differences, I am sure. Thanks for the kind words,

-Ed

 

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