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SET 45 vs SET KT88

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Posted on April 5, 2015 at 16:24:36
lugnut1
Audiophile

Posts: 132
Location: Austin,TX
Joined: September 24, 2011
Besides power, what are the sonic differences?

 

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RE: SET 45 vs SET KT88, posted on April 5, 2015 at 16:39:59
danlaudionut
Audiophile

Posts: 5480
Location: Schenectady
Joined: June 6, 2002
Complete opposites...
KT88 is more like the 845
Power, dynamic and full bodied
45 is more like the KT66
Fast, extended and transparent

DanL



 

RE: SET 45 vs SET KT88, posted on April 6, 2015 at 16:57:18
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17263
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
Within it's power rating the 45 is much more linear than a triode wired KT88 so the output stage will have less harmonic distortion and the music will sound more like..............music.

Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: SET 45 vs SET KT88, posted on April 6, 2015 at 21:02:45
lugnut1
Audiophile

Posts: 132
Location: Austin,TX
Joined: September 24, 2011
As I recently discovered, the 45 is indeed a special tube. It covers 90% of my musical tastes at adequate volume. A few more watts would bring on tube nirvana.

 

RE: SET 45 vs SET KT88, posted on April 6, 2015 at 22:49:21
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 15703
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
The same applies to Class A triode PP with 45s and KT88/6550As. I prefer the KT66 to the KT88 in PP. It sounds more like a 45 with a bit more power.

 

Which KT66?, posted on April 7, 2015 at 05:18:04
Chip647
Audiophile

Posts: 2633
Location: The South
Joined: December 24, 2012
Current production "KT66" are pretty much just 6L6GC in a fancy bottle.

I love how New Sensor puts out the data sheet for the "Gold Lion" as simply a photo copy from a 1950's spec sheet with their name stamped on the bottom of the page. Classy.

 

The ones you don't like nt, posted on April 7, 2015 at 11:47:51
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 15703
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
nt

 

RE: The ones you don't like nt, posted on April 7, 2015 at 14:58:46
Chip647
Audiophile

Posts: 2633
Location: The South
Joined: December 24, 2012
Didn't say I did not like then. They are a good 6L6.

 

RE: Which KT66?, posted on April 7, 2015 at 15:56:15
danlaudionut
Audiophile

Posts: 5480
Location: Schenectady
Joined: June 6, 2002
Absurd
They sound COMPLETELY different !!!
Two tubes could not sound less opposite.

DanL



 

RE: Which KT66?, posted on April 8, 2015 at 05:20:54
Chip647
Audiophile

Posts: 2633
Location: The South
Joined: December 24, 2012
Yes, different brands of tubes can sound different.
The current production KT66 and current production 6L6 have no consistent, fundamental construction differences in their internal structure. I am glad you like them.

While not Hi-Fi, here is a guitar amp comparison:

 

RE: Which KT66?, posted on April 8, 2015 at 19:43:52
danlaudionut
Audiophile

Posts: 5480
Location: Schenectady
Joined: June 6, 2002
Even on the website you referenced.
Construction differences were obvious.
Top vs side getter
Bottle shape different
Base design different
Plate structure different
I could not see anything similar
other than same pin-out.

DanL



 

RE: Which KT66?, posted on April 8, 2015 at 19:50:27
Chip647
Audiophile

Posts: 2633
Location: The South
Joined: December 24, 2012
Yes different makers have different techniques for tube production. The point I was making is that the new production "KT66" are just 6L6 tubes in fancy bottles.

On the other hand, you really believe that the shape and location of the getter splash and getter holder are sonic choices?

 

RE: Which KT66?, posted on April 8, 2015 at 20:39:05
danlaudionut
Audiophile

Posts: 5480
Location: Schenectady
Joined: June 6, 2002
Shape of the bottle, base construction
getter placement and mica supports
all contribute to the sonic attributes.
But look at the plate construction,
they are also different.
Let alone if they used different materials
and or gauges in their construction.
If they sound completely different,
how can they be the same?
I just don't see your case in evidence.

DanL



 

BS, posted on April 9, 2015 at 09:05:44
GSH
"base construction getter placement and mica supports all contribute to the sonic attributes."

This would be an accident if remotely true. The manufacturers are obligated to produce a device that performs as the type it is as defined by the characteristics. IF a REAL sonic difference could be perceived or measured, then it would be attributable only to inter-electrode capacitances and the
micro differences thereof.

 

RU KIDDING ME?, posted on April 11, 2015 at 15:57:15
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
"base construction getter placement and mica supports all contribute to the sonic attributes."

This would be an accident if remotely true. The manufacturers are obligated to produce a device that performs as the type it is as defined by the characteristics. IF a REAL sonic difference could be perceived or measured, then it would be attributable only to inter-electrode capacitances and the
micro differences thereof.

Of course build quality and placement of insulators and type of bottle all affect the sonic nature of a tube. Just the way the bottle dissipates the heat has an affect on the sound as well as the components used.When tubes develop a vibration within the tube due to poor or lesser build quality,that translates to excessive microphonics which definitely changes the sound..So why wouldn't build type and placement have an affect?
You probably think that an entry level Goodyear shock absorber is going to give you the same ride and control that a Bilstein gas shock will just because Goodyear says this cheap shock meets OEM spec..Nothing could be further from the truth.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE:So true, posted on April 11, 2015 at 19:19:55
unclestu
Dealer

Posts: 5851
Joined: April 13, 2010
many of the original brown base power tubes were labeled low leakage bases and favored for the added extension to the highs.

Also the more powerful the tubes you will see ridged being molded between the pins, to lengthen any possible arc path.

The more fingers of mica, the less microphonic the tube. Or so J.C. Morrison told me early on when he became head designer for New Sensor. You can see this on early Genalex KT-77's, Earlier models have many fingers making contact with the glass later ones are more limited in number.

In the multi fingered micas, if you examine them carefully, the fingers alternate in length. Longer fingers crush against the glass for stability and the shorter ones serve as centering devices for the tube structure

Morrison informed me that the mica sheets have to have all perforations and shapes made with ONE pull of the die. This made complex shapes and perforations expensive to produce, because the dies would wear quickly relatively speaking. I'm sure now with laser etching readily available, things may have changed,.

Just dissected a Mullard xF2 which rolled off my desk and cracked. Interesting. Nothing too much different but the screen and grid support rods were all blackened. Haven't seen that in GE 6ca7's and such. Haven't compared it to regular EL 34's.

Some tubes use those beryllium bronze support rods, thought maybe that was for better conductivity, but Morrison told me it is done help dissipate heat better.

I'm sure there are many other factors that I am ignorant of.

 

RE: SET 45 vs SET KT88, posted on April 17, 2015 at 11:18:01
hifipaul
Audiophile

Posts: 735
Location: NY
Joined: December 22, 2008
WOW! this thread went from 45 vs. KT88, to the finer details of KT66s.

I'm gonna put the 45/KT88 comparison in religious perspective.

SE45s are a whisper from god about the secrets of the universe and the harmonic beauty within.

SE KT88s are the hammer of the gods telling you to get and shake your ass.

 

RE: SET 45 vs SET KT88, posted on June 29, 2015 at 10:37:14
SETdude
Audiophile

Posts: 3944
Joined: January 20, 2000
A well executed 45 amp is simply excellent if you have correct speakers. You just need to hear both and decide. Words are worthless. Only your ears matter. ;-)

 

I think that Tre' gave you the answer, posted on July 1, 2015 at 12:16:03
richardl
Audiophile

Posts: 3555
Joined: September 5, 2002
I have heard and measured both and what he describes is accurate. The KT88 will require feedback in triode mode unless you like distortion. Steve Bench measured an inherent 1.4% in the KT88 in triode mode even within its power envelope. The 45 will be much cleaner at low power. However, the 45 also has only 1 to 1.5W available. The 300B and the KT88 are a fairer power comparison and the 300B is capable of low distortion without feedback like the 45. IMO, SE with feedback is not worth the effort, just go PP at that point and therefore I recommend the 45 and 300B depending on your power needs for a SE amp.

 

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