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I Really Need Your Help --PLEASE!

50.89.169.185
Posted on November 7, 2014 at 08:28:36
thetubeguy1954
Audiophile

Posts: 6112
Location: Orlando, Fla
Joined: January 7, 2001
 Hello Everyone!

I own a 40W/ch, 135LB, Italian, Mastersound Reference 845, integrated, SET amp which you can see along with the other components in my system at the link below. The Mastersound is 13 years old and has given me very few problems over the years. However last Tuesday I went to turn it on ---{because Florida is the lightning strike capitol of the USA and second in the entire world, I leave my audio gear unplugged when it's not in use}--- so I plugged it in, turned it and allowed it to warm up for 30 minutes.

While the system was warming up, I started to hear some fairly loud pops & ticks coming from the speaker of the left channel! I know nothing about working on audio components. So I don't know if this is important or not but this all occurred with the volume turned completely off. I went back to the room to turn the amp off, but all the pops & ticks stopped by the time I got to the amp. Since everything now seemed ok, I decided to allow the amp to continue warming up, but paid close attention to it while doing so.

When the 30 minutes was up I put on a CD and glorious music that only an SET can make came from only the right channel. I shut off the amp immediately and haven't used it since. I'm lucky because there's a shop near me that repairs tube guitar amps and other pro audio gear. I say I'm lucky because I'm charged the same rates he charges to work on the guitar amps. Thankfully I don't have the pay the high rates audio salons charge for working on high-end tube audio gear, OOOOOOHHHHH WHOOOO!

I have some questions for those who know about working on audio gear...


Do you think this sounds like bad cap? If so what type of cap a PIO, Teflon, Polypropylene etc. should I use to replace the bad cap and which manufacturer should I use, V-Cap, Mundorf, Rike or these Ultracapacitors built with Graphene & Carbon Nanotubes I just read about here: http://tinyurl.com/Ultracapacitors or perhaps some other brand I don't know about? Should I recap the entire amp at this time? What do you think about these tube sockets I want to use to replace the four 9-pins on the Mastersound: http://www.dhtrob.com/impressies/teflon_tellurium_ux4_en.php Finally please provide any other advice you think I should know about but didn't ask...



Thanks for your time. I'm listening to: Afterdark by Halie Loren




Thetubeguy1954 (Tom)

Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers


 

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RE: I Really Need Your Help --PLEASE!, posted on November 7, 2014 at 12:49:38
Blackdog
Manufacturer

Posts: 1505
Location: Ontario
Joined: March 20, 2006
 95% of the time that kind of noise is caused by a bad tube, probably one of the 845's. After that you probably have nothing more than a blown fuse that is internal to the amp.
I've worked on many, many Mastersound amps and generally that is the problem.
When you take it in for repair, make sure the tech is aware of the voltages inside.
Those sockets you want to use will not fit the board space. Also while great when they're new, copper even the copper they use, is soft, and doesn't stand up over time.



Dan Santoni

 

RE: I Really Need Your Help --PLEASE!, posted on November 7, 2014 at 17:56:00
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
 First of all, relax some, your world is not coming to an end.

I would be conservative, and look to just repair the amp in a logical way, and do NOT try to modify it. The first poster gave you a very good start !!!

If you wanna "pick caps", do your own DIY build from scratch. And by the way, no series caps, direct couple the circuit !!!

Jeff Medwin

 

Tom, there is also a guy near you in Orlando, posted on November 8, 2014 at 07:25:41
bcguitar
Audiophile

Posts: 1328
Location: Maryland
Joined: March 2, 2005
 let me know if you need his contact info. He works on all amps and is very knowledgeable and has affordable rates.

 

RE: I Really Need Your Help --PLEASE!, posted on November 8, 2014 at 10:40:40
Caucasian Blackplate
Industry Professional

Posts: 8313
Location: Seattle
Joined: June 18, 2004
 If it is a cap, it should be replaced with the same part used to build the amp in the first place.

(I agree that you may just need a fresh 845 on that channel)

 

RE: Tom, there is also a guy near you in Orlando, posted on November 14, 2014 at 09:57:54
thetubeguy1954
Audiophile

Posts: 6112
Location: Orlando, Fla
Joined: January 7, 2001
 Are you referring to Peter Wells? If not, then yes please send me the contact info of the man you're referring to Bobby, you already have my email address & phone #. Hey when we getting together again?

I'm listening to: Latin Color by Armi Grano




Thetubeguy1954 (Tom)

Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers


 

RE: I Really Need Your Help --PLEASE!, posted on November 14, 2014 at 10:13:17
thetubeguy1954
Audiophile

Posts: 6112
Location: Orlando, Fla
Joined: January 7, 2001
 Hi Jeff,

I honestly don't know how to DIY any amp, let alone an 845-based amp the quality of the Mastersound. I just figured that since I might have to replace a cap, I might as well use the best I can afford ---{obviously in both channels}--- when replacing it. After all when building their amps, even Mastersound must make some choices based on cost in an effort to keep them within a certain price-point when selling them, right? Whereas when I'm having the Mastersound repaired, I, thankfully, don't have that same restraint or hindrance keeping me from using a higher quality cap.

Besides people have high-quality audio components modified to use higher quality internal components than are originally used, in an effort to improve their sound even further all the time. Mike Samra did just that to my friend Mike's McIntosh MC275 and the improvement in sound quality was amazing when Mike Samra was finished. That said, I understand your POV and where you're coming from and I know many people would agree with it! Thanks for your input & advice Jeff!

I'm listening to: Latin Color by Armi Grano




Thetubeguy1954 (Tom)

Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers


 

RE: I Really Need Your Help --PLEASE!, posted on November 14, 2014 at 15:40:40
thetubeguy1954
Audiophile

Posts: 6112
Location: Orlando, Fla
Joined: January 7, 2001
 Hi Dani!

I'm glad to have heard from someone who has worked on Mastersound gear. While I have a very good audio ear, I'm not technically oriented at all! Hopefully you won't mind my asking you a few questions. My first question is:

1) Did you ever work on a Mastersound Reference 845? If you did, how high was the quality of the circuit boards, caps, inductors, resistors etc. that Mastersound used in the Reference 845 and their other audio gear?

2) Are the internal components Mastersound used good enough that I should just replace the caps in the Reference 845 with the same type of caps they came with or should I upgrade to better caps "if" they need to be replaced?

3) Are the 9-pin sockets mounted on circuit boards? Mine are becoming a tad out-of-shape and definitely not looking like they should! It's becoming more & more difficult to insert those 6900 tubes. When I replace a part ---{just like I need to do with these 9-pin sockets}--- I like using the best replacement parts I can afford.

4) Dani I'm 61 & if it's at all possible, I want the Mastersound to be the last amp I own ---{unless I hit the lotto of course}--- so can you PLEASE recommend a nice set of Teflon or Porcelain tube sockets I could/should use to replace the 9-pin sockets in the Mastersound that hold the 6900 tubes I'm using?

I'll be extremely surprised if I have an 845 problem! I only recently purchased those quad of WE845 tubes from Grant Fidelity in Canada. Still on your say so, I'll definitely try swapping the 845 tubes from the R-channel with the 845 tubes in the L-channel. We'll see what that does! I also have a quad of 845B tubes I can install in their place, if need be. Dani today is 11/14 and at 2PM this afternoon after reading this post I swapped the R-channel 845 tube for with the L-channel 845 tubes and unfortunately for me, that wasn't the problem. But I still want to say thank you very, very much for your input & advice. I'll be looking forward and waiting with bated-breath for your response to my four questions. Since you've worked on Mastersound amps, your answers will hold a lot of weight with me.

I'm actually very lucky because about 6 or 8 miles from me there's a repair shop that specializes in tubed guitar amps and other tubed, pro-audio gear. This guy heard about but, didn't have audiophiles with high-end tubed, audio gear coming to his shop! The first time I brought him the Mastersound ---{he ended up having to replace the 4 diode bridges ---hope I remembered the part name correctly--- because the 6900 tubes were drawing slightly more current than the 5687 tubes I had previously used}--- I thought his eyes were going to pop out of his head. He couldn't believe how nice it looked, how much it weighed, which is 135lbs and he especially couldn't believe anyone would spend that much money on an amplifier.

When Pete asked me what the Mastersound cost, I asked him "Do you want to know what I paid or how much it would cost to replace it Pete?" He responded: "Both!" So I told Pete: "I paid $4.3K instead of their $6.9K asking price. I bought it at this price in 2001, because I purchased the store's last piece of Mastersound gear, i.e., their demo unit. I bought it as a new piece of audio gear with full warranty." I then explained to him that it would cost $12.5K to replace it now and how it's the only piece of audio gear I've purchased that actually appreciated instead of depreciating in value!

Dani the reason I said I was lucky is this; Pete really doesn't like having a piece of audio gear that's as expensive as the Mastersound sitting around in his shop where it could be accidentally damaged or possibly stolen. So when I bring the Mastersound in, Pete stops working on whatever else he was working on ---{I assume he tells Grace to work on the piece he stopped working on}--- and almost immediately he starts working on the Mastersound! Pete continues working on the Mastersound until it's either repaired or until he cannot go further because he needs a part he cannot attain locally! But once that part arrives he works on the Mastersound until it's finished. Once it's done Pete calls me and fully expects me to come pick it up within an hour "if" possible or ASAP if that's not possible. Pete does charge me a little more per hour for receiving his ---{"VIP express service"}--- which I believe raises his hourly rate to $75/hr.? Whatever Pete charged me it was extremely reasonable and his work & service are exemplary. So at the very least, I have a excellent tube-audio technician who provides me with his VIP express service whenever I need to bring the Mastersound in and he charges me extremely reasonable rates!

Once again I want to thank you for your time, your attention and your help Dani. I sincerely hope you'll answer those 4 or 5 questions I asked you up above. Your responses to them will really mean quite a lot to me. Finally if you like modal-type jazz, you'll thoroughly enjoy listening to the trumpeter Tomasz Stanko in his Quartet. I'm disabled and live in constant debilitating pain 24/7/365 even while taking the extremely strong narcotic pain meds around the clock. Some nights even with my meds I cannot go to sleep. On those nights I'll turn on my audio system and play recordings like this along with some others of similar sonic signatures, and they are able to assuage the pain and finally lull me into sleep, when nothing else can...







I'm listening to: Suspended Night by Tomasz Stanko Quartet
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom)

Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers


 

RE: I Really Need Your Help --PLEASE!, posted on November 15, 2014 at 07:00:56
GEO
Audiophile

Posts: 4749
Joined: April 7, 2000
Contributor
  Since: September 9, 2000
 Could just be a fuse. I had Smart 845s and a Graaf 50/50 (only amp I ever sold that I missed) that would blow fuses from time to time. Not too different from what you experienced.

 

RE: I Really Need Your Help --PLEASE!, posted on November 16, 2014 at 09:55:25
GEO
Audiophile

Posts: 4749
Joined: April 7, 2000
Contributor
  Since: September 9, 2000
 Years ago, I put Rel teflons in my smart 845s and it was a huge improvement. I like teflons.

 

RE: I Really Need Your Help --PLEASE!, posted on November 19, 2014 at 16:36:30
thetubeguy1954
Audiophile

Posts: 6112
Location: Orlando, Fla
Joined: January 7, 2001
 Thanks for that input GEO! I believe that's exactly what I'm going to do then!


I'm listening to: Spartacus by Triumvirat




Thetubeguy1954 (Tom)

Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers


 

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