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Sound quality of modern motor-run caps in tubed powersupplies?

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Posted on March 21, 2014 at 18:03:32
jeffreybehr
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 Anyone have an opinion on the SQ of different brands of these caps in SET-amp powersupplies? I'm thinking about replacing the four 47uF/630 Solen fastcap 'propylenes in my Coincident Frankenstein IIs and am considering GALCO/GEs, CDEs, and ASCs.

See linked thread.

 

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Have you gotten poor sound from the Solens in other power supplies?, posted on March 21, 2014 at 21:56:45
JJ Triode
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 The Fastcaps have a poor reputation as coupling caps, but I have not found them to sound bright or edgy (as you mention in another post) in power supply applications. Certainly they seems to add some "information" at both frequency extremes, but I have not heard them sound hard in PS and decoupling filters; in fact when I added them to my amps, the sound seemed smoother if anything, and more musical. But I have only used them in parallel with larger (in value) electrolytic caps. Maybe by themselves they do worse.

In any case, have you observed the Frankensteins sounding dry or edgy? If not, maybe these caps should be left alone for the time being.

 

Let me clarify., posted on March 22, 2014 at 07:06:27
Michael Samra
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 Jeff
If you have Solens in the power supply,those are dam good caps for filtering..I thought your amps had electrolytic caps and that's why I suggested motorruns and or Solens..If you have Solens,those are excellent in power supplies.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: Sound quality of modern motor-run caps in tubed powersupplies?, posted on March 22, 2014 at 07:55:09
Stuben
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 Well if really need to tinker. The difference in sound will not be worth the effort. If you need sling solder over listening have at it...and be careful while commissioning. It's not likely, you will go "Gee I'm glad I changed out those fast caps" :>)

Stuben

 

Address the sound quality of ELECTROLYTICS on every Rk in the amp., posted on March 25, 2014 at 08:53:23
drlowmu
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 Directly in the SE audio signal path. No one has discussed that. So obvious, electrolytics ????

Jeff Medwin

 

I agree on this point., posted on March 25, 2014 at 10:18:46
JJ Triode
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Location: Northwest
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 By all means replace the electrolytic cathode bypass capacitors with good film caps wherever possible. Recently I have gotten excellent results doing this with the 22 µF, 35V Obbligato caps from DIY Hifi Supply in Hong Kong. If complete replacement is not feasible due to space constraints, at least put a film cap in parallel with the electrolytic.

Another possibility, at least on the first two stages of the Coincident amp, might be to just delete the cathode bypass caps altogether, as the amp looks like it will still have adequate gain. Perhaps others with more experience can comment on whether this would have any ill effects other than reducing the gain by a few dB.

 

I certainly agree with that and had already planned to replace the cathode-bypass..., posted on March 25, 2014 at 17:33:36
jeffreybehr
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 ...decoupling, and 'EM7-powersupply caps in my Franks with BlackGates. The latter caps will be VK-series 150/350s, bypassed with 0.47 SoniCap Platinums.

For main-PS caps, I'm now leaning toward the WIMA 600VDC caps that Mike Samra mentioned in the linked thread...but I'm a relatively long way away from that as that will be probably the 2nd part of my parts-upgrade project.

 

RE: I certainly agree with that and had already planned to replace the cathode-bypass..., posted on March 25, 2014 at 20:37:40
Michael Samra
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 Jeff
I love the SC plats but .47 doesn't give quite enough capacitance in that position..That is one place if you can fit them in where the KBGs work quite nicely..Even if you went with a 10uf SC poly bypass at around 5uf to 10uf,you would probably love the result.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: I certainly agree with that and had already planned to replace the cathode-bypass..., posted on March 26, 2014 at 10:37:52
drlowmu
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Location: East of Kansas City
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 The WIMA DC-Link caps, probably 800 VDC rated, would be precisely what I would use and suggest!! Black Solen films are NG sounding - terrible, anywheres in a SE amp.

You have to select the amount of capacitance on Rks entirely by ear, not with ANY formula what so ever. Start with a LOW value film. Say 10 uF, and parallel and listen.

There is no electrolytic that is good enough on Rks. It takes MULTIPLE value films, and an EAR, and LOTS of patience ( break in time on a Mundorf Tin Foil film amounted to 900 hours, WHO does that, only Dennis !!! ) and bucks to get right.

Only person in THIS world who knows how to do this is Dennis Fraker, who is UBER experienced at this. Believe me, I have asked and watched him on this !!

Jeff Medwin

 

RE: Sound quality of modern motor-run caps in tubed powersupplies?, posted on March 26, 2014 at 14:24:43
Qman
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Posts: 322
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 I like Obbligato oilers in my PS. I tried a CDE PP type...took it out after a few hours. But to be fair I did not take the time to let it break-in I guess. Just didn't sound as smooth as the oil. The CDE is the ticket in my Fisher refurbed PP EL84 amp thou. One thing is for sure, in the low parts count SET amp that I'm building I find every part that I've tried from oil, to film, to carbon and metal each have there own sonic signiture. Guess this is no revelation to the veterans here...

 

Mike, these are BlackGates, the best-sounding "'lytics" man has ever made., posted on March 26, 2014 at 14:40:37
jeffreybehr
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 Standard 'propylenes don't sound as good as the BGs.

 

I suppose 'Rk' is used somewhere, but pls save me time and tell me what it means. (NT), posted on March 26, 2014 at 14:43:43
jeffreybehr
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 .

 

Well, Jeff, I'm glad I'm not that golden-eared. What I'll end up with..., posted on March 26, 2014 at 17:12:09
jeffreybehr
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 ...will be lots better sounding than what I started with, 'in spite' of the few BlackGate 'lytics I'll be using.

And maybe it'll have a low-DCR choke in it. :-)

 

RESISTOR, Kathode. ( nt ), posted on March 27, 2014 at 08:58:10
drlowmu
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Location: East of Kansas City
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 .

 

C2, C3 and C6 on the schematic you posted (nt), posted on March 27, 2014 at 14:07:03
JJ Triode
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 -t

 

RE: Mike, these are BlackGates, the best-sounding "'lytics" man has ever made., posted on March 27, 2014 at 19:35:29
Michael Samra
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Location: saginaw michigan
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 I have Black gates and I use them as cathode bypass for higher values..What I was speaking of is right here..Try some of the KBG caps for bypass in the power supply..They now have the .15 at 600v but I think the 1uf to 5uf works very well and these caps would be terribly expensive if they weren't surplus military..The reason I always go more on bypass is because film caps,whether they be paper or poly, will deliver the energy at quicker pulses under most listening conditions..Then on higher demanding passages,you go into the electrolytic.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

Q, do you know or could you check--is the Obbligato..., posted on April 8, 2014 at 16:19:23
jeffreybehr
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Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Joined: December 10, 2004
Contributor
  Since: December 13, 2004
 ...'Film Oil' cap the same as those linked and is it magnetic anywhere?

These look to me as if they could be repackaged motor-run caps--and that's certainly OK with me if they're selected for SQ--but some MR caps I've checked have magnetic material in their terminations.

photo obbligato-oil_zpsa353df76.jpg

 

RE: Sound quality of modern motor-run caps in tubed powersupplies?, posted on April 10, 2014 at 10:32:12
Retsel
Audiophile

Posts: 1239
Joined: April 17, 2000
 You may want to consider the 97F caps by GE. They are oil impregnated propylene and and likely slightly better than the Solon's, which is pretty darn good for a power supply cap. I did some research a while back and people reported that the ASCs are not as good as the GE97F caps.

The other thing you could do is bypass the solon's with a 4 uf cap of high voltage, which likely would have much lower ESR.

Retsel

 

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