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ROXY MUSIC. MOTT THE HOOPLE THREAD

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Posted on July 10, 2014 at 12:11:45
roxymott
Audiophile

Posts: 433
Joined: June 9, 2004
If anyone is interested, I'll start a thread sharing my 40+ years of knowledge and purchase suggestions for my two favorite bands.
Roxy/Ferry/Eno/ Manzanera/TGPT/MacKay/801/Quiet Sun.
MTH/Ian Hunter & Mick Ronson/IH & Andy York/Ian Hunter & The Rant Band.

Of course - if there is no interest I won't start a thread.

 

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You could not pry from me, posted on July 10, 2014 at 12:52:48
LWR
Audiophile

Posts: 66808
Location: The woods
Joined: August 12, 2003
my Boys & Girls & Roxy Music SACDs which sound so damn good. They make women dance and slither like no other album!

 

RE: ROXY MUSIC. MOTT THE HOOPLE THREAD, posted on July 10, 2014 at 15:09:00
cfraser
Audiophile

Posts: 3208
Location: Pickering, Ontario
Joined: April 30, 2000
Thanks. [D'oh...posted in the wrong thread...corrected]

Bit of a coincidence there, because besides the RM, I've also been updating some Eno CDs recently too. The MTH ones are on my front-burner now, I do not have any at all on CD except a rather old Brain Capers (easily my MTH fave). All the mentioned artists I have been listening to on LP only (except BC) until very recently, my original LPs bought when they were new/current...still sound decent to me after a lot of use.

Anyway, my questions were having to do with what is a good CD release. Not an expensive one, but a decent one. Could be another format, I do BD/DVD-A/SACD/DVD music too, but I like CD for this older stuff as it sounds OK enough and is more portable for me.

Have you ever tried making a version selection using the Dynamic Range database? IME this is a very poor single criteria to choose a release, and I'm pretty sure nobody does that (I hope!). Otherwise they will end up with some very poor-sounding and probably quite old CD releases; so the compromise between *perhaps* (usually) a lower DR but greatly increased clarity is what I prefer. No compromise even more preferred...

Almost certainly I will not like any "mainstream" remaster done after 2006, there are notable exceptions, and before 2002 is preferred if reasonably available (did the Loudness Wars start then?, by '06 they were fully in effect). And nothing CD from Rhino, they consistently do all the stuff that hurts my ears, I mean that literally, they don't get any more chances from me.

Fussy enough? Not really IMO compared to some, I was just telling you that stuff so you or somebody else could guide me. I'm sure you know where I'm coming from...decent sound with uneffed mixing.

Eno: What do you think of the Eno CDs that say they were "DSD mastered"? In general, you can mention specific ones if you want. I have several of those. My HCTWJ is the 2004 remaster from the E.U., non-DSDM. Actually, I think all the CDs I'm going to mention are from the UK or E.U. (Germany usually it seems, some Austria, those ones *look* gorgeous, glow like proof coins...).

RM: what do you think of the remasters that are identified as being in HDCD? I mean how they sound as a regular CD, but I can play HDCD too. But most times I'll probably be playing them as FLAC rips, unless the HDCD is really good. I have already got some of these, just got them yesterday in fact...what I meant when I said I should have asked you first... I haven't played them yet.

MTH: I only have the U.S.A. Brain Capers, no other info on the package, it is probably from the late '80s. The ones I was planning to get (or now, what you suggest) are identified by Sony/BMG Legacy from E.U., probably 2004 remasters, possibly 2006 (yikes!). Thoughts?

Van Morrison: throw in a left. Are there actually any good CDs of his earlier albums that don't suck? Probably...guess I haven't heard them, there are lots of expensive ones, but that's no gauge IME. This is another artist on my front-burner that maybe somebody wants to comment on. The 2013 versions that I've heard are not for me, not even sure they're as good as the originals, which aren't that good either.

So, what can I help on? Probably not a lot, though I can help on what's lousy...which is not a real help if looking to actually buy "something". I am pretty into reggae though, that is a real tough bunch to wade through because there are lots of re-issues and compilations of dubious provenance and more dubious quality. Was no different with the LPs back in the day though.

OK, enough of my blathering. Anybody can comment of course, but obviously someone with the roxymott moniker I'm going to collar.

 

RE: ROXY MUSIC. MOTT THE HOOPLE THREAD, posted on July 10, 2014 at 15:56:15
Dave Garretson
Audiophile

Posts: 2448
Joined: June 14, 2005
Come hither. I last heard RM in a most impressive concert circa 2002/3 at Radio City Music Hall in NYC with Chris Spedding and an appropriately modish girl chorus. Of course judged by recent output it's clear that Eno has longer legs.

Saw an overweight and underwhelming Ian Hunter in a small gig at the Trocadero in Philadelphia in the mid 2000s. Sorry to see him reduced to micro-venues.

 

RE: ROXY MUSIC. MOTT THE HOOPLE THREAD, posted on July 10, 2014 at 15:59:58
roxymott
Audiophile

Posts: 433
Joined: June 9, 2004
Hey dude - You made one helluva post (but a great one). It'll take me a day or two to properly respond.
But you should be aware that THE Bob Ludwig remastered the Roxy's and a lotta Bryan Ferry reissues.
He basically rails against compression and has totally top flight engineering/playback equipment - but occasionally runs up against the "powers that be" screwed up thought process.
Also, almost all Roxy, Ferry, Eno and Manzanera earlier stuff was initially engineered by Rhett Davies - who was excellent for the times.

 

RE: ROXY MUSIC. MOTT THE HOOPLE THREAD, posted on July 10, 2014 at 16:06:41
roxymott
Audiophile

Posts: 433
Joined: June 9, 2004
With all due respect, you did NOT see an overweight Ian Hunter at the time you indicated. I've caught many a show since 2000 and this (now) 75 year old has NEVER EVER been overweight since before he originally joined Mott the Hoople. He is and has been thin and in great physical condition for his age. Overweight is the very last adjective I would use to describe his appearance and it is grossly wrong.
I'll not comment on your thoughts about performance - to each his own.

 

Point taken but, posted on July 10, 2014 at 16:21:47
Dave Garretson
Audiophile

Posts: 2448
Joined: June 14, 2005
certainly less thin than circa 1969. Unfortunately me too. A shitty little venue like the Troc is at best a distorted mirror for old glories.

 

Pleased to be seeing Bryan Ferry in September!, posted on July 11, 2014 at 07:33:58
SamA
Audiophile

Posts: 2902
Location: Washington, D.C.
Joined: February 12, 2004
I'm pleased to be seeing Bryan Ferry here in D.C. in September. He's skedded to do two shows. The first is sold out and the second, based on my seats, would appear to be getting close a sell-out, too.

Anyone else see him on the current tour? Opinions?

 

Here's what I want, posted on July 11, 2014 at 08:41:04
jec01
Audiophile

Posts: 1462
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Joined: September 22, 2004
A boxed set of 70s era Eno and Manzanera solo(ish) albums, properly remastered on vinyl. This set would include:

Here Come the Warm Jets
Taking Tiger Mountain (By Strategy)
Diamond Head
Mainstream
Another Green World
801 Live
Listen Now
K-Scope
Before and After Science

I know, I'm dreaming.

Happy listening,

Jim

"The passage of my life is measured out in shirts."
- Brian Eno

 

RE: ROXY MUSIC. MOTT THE HOOPLE THREAD, posted on July 11, 2014 at 08:56:33
cfraser
Audiophile

Posts: 3208
Location: Pickering, Ontario
Joined: April 30, 2000
[Man, I am having trouble with this thread, somehow my posting has screwed up *reading* this thread *for me*, so try again...]

OK, thanks. So far the RM CDs I've bought are the Bob Ludwig remasters (those are the ones I mentioned that have the HDCD label). Yes, I did consider him when choosing those versions because he's known for caring about SQ, besides being well-spoken of here.

I forgot that I also have the Avalon SACD and the first CD of it, as well as certain "Bryan Ferry" CDs that are a mix of RM and solo stuff. I wasn't planning to re-buy those titles.
Edit: I don't expect you to do any legwork for me, I have already done quite a bit of it, and the versions I mentioned previously are the result. But I haven't read any reviews etc. because I don't know where to find them (amazon lumping together all reviews for all versions of a title doesn't help).

I guess I was just looking for you to say yay or nay to my choices based on if you'd heard those versions, or to recommend other ones offhand. It's not like I haven't bought plenty of duds anyway, just trying to minimize it.

 

RE: ROXY MUSIC. MOTT THE HOOPLE THREAD, posted on July 11, 2014 at 10:02:27
roxymott
Audiophile

Posts: 433
Joined: June 9, 2004
No bother AT ALL. I'll do a lengthy summary in a few days.
- In general all Roxy Associated cds were extremely well engineered from the get go (RM, Ferry, Eno, Manzanera, etc). I used to have an HDCD player, but no longer do. I vividly recall getting the Ludwig remastered Roxy Music first album and was shocked by the improved sonics. I feel that way about all of them (particularly "Stranded" - which is my fave). Keep in mind the incredible care Ferry put into his releases in the first place & Ludwig's remastering is icing on the cake.

GET THE LATEST 2011 EXPRESSION RECORDS REMASTERED VERSION OF PHIL MANZANERA'S "DIAMOND HEAD" !!!
It has top rate sonics, classy packaging and is a guitarist's dream masterpiece. Features Eno, Paul Thompson, John Wetton, Robert Wyatt, Bill MacCormick, Andy MacKay and others. An enormous achievement which reflects all Manzanera's musical strengths. Again engineered by Rhett Davies in 1974 with excellent sound for the times.

My favorite Mott the Hoople studio albums in order: Mott/All the Young Dudes/Brain Capers/The Hoople/self titled/Mad Shadows/Wildlife.
The TWO DISC (finally) "Live", featuring both the London and Uris shows is stupendous. Here you can readily see how Queen nicked alot of their stage presence and arrangements.

For Ian Hunter, the remastered first one with Mick Ronson is superb (the 30th anniversary has extra tracks). "Yui Orta" with Ronson again is severely under-rated. "All American Alien Boy" actually features Jaco Pastoriuos on bass, members of Queen and first rate session guys - a great disc. The live "Welcome To The Club" with Ronson is an under-recognized classic. The newest reissue of "You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic" is perhaps his best recorded album with GREAT drum sound and E-Street Band members. It includes a full disc of bonus live stuff.
All Ian's material with Mellancamp's Andy York as guitarist/co-arranger is fine. And all his releases with the Rant Band are great as well.
This (thin) 75 year old rocker is still rocking strong exhibiting some of his finest composing during the last decade.

BTW - a good place to get aggravated info is AMG (All Music Guide). I don't always agree with their assessments, but it is easily navigated.

Best........................Birney

 

RE: Point taken but, posted on July 11, 2014 at 10:19:47
roxymott
Audiophile

Posts: 433
Joined: June 9, 2004
Hey Dave - I also saw him at the Troc in Philly. As memory serves, John Eddie opened. This show was the first time my brother saw IH and became a huge fan. We've since spoken quite often to Ian and his band members (briefly with Ian, longer with the others). M.C. Bosch, Paul Page, James Mastro and drummer Steve Holley (ex-Wings) are down to earth and sincerely humble and nice people.

 

RE: ROXY MUSIC. MOTT THE HOOPLE THREAD, posted on July 11, 2014 at 10:50:49
cfraser
Audiophile

Posts: 3208
Location: Pickering, Ontario
Joined: April 30, 2000
^ Thanks. AMG is permanently open in my browser... Yeah, lots of errors and omissions (for lesser artists), besides a bit of a flakey search engine, but pretty decent.

Discogs is good (also premanently open here) for detailed version info. Gives a good idea of availability of items too, whether a version of something I've been holding out for is likely to be had. Less BS than eBay to buy too.

Edit: guess I should have mentioned my faves.
RM: Country Life by a fair bit, then For Your Pleasure, then the other 2 of the first 4 about the same
MTH: Brain Capers, then Mott, then AtYD and The Hoople about the same

 

RE: Point taken but, posted on July 11, 2014 at 11:10:46
Dave Garretson
Audiophile

Posts: 2448
Joined: June 14, 2005
After further reflection I now recall enjoying IH that time and was ungenerous in posting otherwise. It can be a bit hard to witness some of the older great ones relegated to such small venues. Add to that the standing room only at the Troc and several hours heading toward a knee replacement through two openers before the main act. That said, I'm signing up for X there in late August.

 

RE: Here's what I want, posted on July 11, 2014 at 11:20:23
Dave Garretson
Audiophile

Posts: 2448
Joined: June 14, 2005
It would be nice to have remasters and vinyl of Manzanera's 2004-5 grand slam of Vozera, 6PM, and 50 Minutes Later. These are worthwhile efforts, though seriously compromised by compression and probably Pro Tools.

 

Ok, I'd take that, too nt., posted on July 11, 2014 at 12:53:12
jec01
Audiophile

Posts: 1462
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Joined: September 22, 2004
nt.

Happy listening,

Jim

"The passage of my life is measured out in shirts."
- Brian Eno

 

The Best Value intro to Roxy Music, posted on July 11, 2014 at 15:32:52
roxymott
Audiophile

Posts: 433
Joined: June 9, 2004
if anyone is even remotely interested - there is one "head and shoulders above the rest value-wise" introduction to Roxy.
It's a Virgin UK import called "The Early Years". Remastered in HDCD by Bob Ludwig at Gateway Mastering Studios. Released in 2000.
It features the first three albums in excellent sound. I'd quibble a little bit about the selection. I'd have preferred "Grey Lagoons", "Serenade", "Just Like You" and "Amazona" over, perhaps, "The Bogus Man" and "Sunset". But that's just me - especially since it's over 79 minutes.

BTW, their 1972 composition "If There Is Something" was 30 or so years into the future. Amazing from start to finish. Daniel Craig utilized it as the "cement track" to his movie Flashbacks of a Fool. The ending of this film is a tearjerker with how the song reappeared at the conclusion.

 

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