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What to do with an Oscilloscope

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Posted on March 30, 2015 at 10:35:18
jedrider
Audiophile

Posts: 15167
Location: No. California
Joined: December 26, 2003
 Just wondering. I see on eBay new oscilloscopes for under $300.00.

How irresistible. But what can I do with a 50 MHz DSO??

I mean, could I look at waveform distortion and really tell something about the circuit?

Just curious.

 

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RE: What to do with an Oscilloscope, posted on March 30, 2015 at 12:46:50
rick_m
Audiophile

Posts: 6230
Location: Oregon
Joined: August 11, 2005
 "I mean, could I look at waveform distortion and really tell something about the circuit?"

Damn, that's a good question.

I can for sure and couldn't imagine being without one. BUT... transferring your question into another field, how about: "If I buy the $500 Craftsman tool set will I be able to fix the fuel injection on my car?"

The answer is the same for both: They are but tools. If you have the tools and know how to use them and understand the operational principles of what you are working on, then you can do stuff, if you lack any of the three, then probably not. That's just the way of it...

Nowadays most digital scopes also do FFT's (act like spectrum analyzers) and you will likely find that handy. As far as performance goes sample rate is the key issue. I recommend at least a GS/s which may seem over the top for audio but lot of things that matter are out-of-band. You will also need a stimulus so pick up a function generator at the same time.

IMHO an oscilloscope is absolutely the single most valuable and versatile piece of electronic test equipment extant. A DVM is number two, especially if you want to measure resistance and a spectrum analyzer usually third, except sometimes it's first...

Ultimately you really want all three, but if I could only have one, it would be a scope.

Unfortunately learning how to really effectively use them just isn't an intuitive joy for some folks, it sort-of depends on the bend of your mind whether they will seem intuitive or alien. For me it was love at first sight. On the other hand I built and fixed a lot of stuff as a kid with a 1000 ohms/volt meter, and a grid-dip meter, and a communications receiver...

Rick

 

Gosh, that's inspiring. , posted on March 30, 2015 at 14:12:09
geoffkait
 But seriously, do you use an oscilloscope routinely for audio or is this one of those work related things? ;-)

 

RE: Gosh, that's inspiring. , posted on March 30, 2015 at 15:53:40
rick_m
Audiophile

Posts: 6230
Location: Oregon
Joined: August 11, 2005
 "But seriously, do you use an oscilloscope routinely for audio or is this one of those work related things? ;-)"

Absolutely! I can't see what's going on otherwise. My bare eyes have a hard time directly seeing those sluggish photons. And since I'm retired what I do is usually audio related.

Yea, I've got most of the normal other stuff like THD analyzers and FFT via computer and various signal generators. The one thing I sorely would like to have is a >1GHz spectrum analyzer but bench space and budget haven't been kind to that desire so far. (I do miss being able to drag stuff home from the office on weekends. But not much...)

Rick

 

RE: What to do with an Oscilloscope, posted on April 1, 2015 at 07:49:35
tomservo
Manufacturer

Posts: 8206
Joined: July 4, 2002
 Hi
AS analogue audio is transferred as a Voltage vs Time signal, the oscilloscope is a good way to examine that audio waveform in real time.

That being said, it is a visual tool and requires your interpretation (search on line for how to video's etc).
The strongest reason for a DIY'r to get one is that you can diagnose the single largest thing that limits dynamics.

While everyone knows what clipping is, few know that when it is very short in duration, you can't hear it as a flaw or "clipping" but what it does do is limit the dynamics.

If you get a 10 x probe and look at the signal going to your speaker (and have the sweep rate and trigger right) and if you see on peaks that the top if the wave is flat, even one, you have clipping.

This can be from the amplifier but also any other part of the chain as the more complicated the system gets, the more chance to have an incorrect gain structure (resulting in one stage clipping far before the other stages).
Best,
Tom

 

Make a modern version of the Outer Limits? , posted on April 1, 2015 at 13:15:10
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
 the last attempt wasn't so good. The original still rules!

E
T

ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

RE: Gosh, that's inspiring. , posted on April 13, 2015 at 19:46:46
AbeCollins
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Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
Do you have an extra $1300 for a 1.5GHz entry model Spectrum Analyzer?

 

RE: What to do with an Oscilloscope, posted on April 13, 2015 at 20:24:45
AbeCollins
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Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 My 350MHz eBay special. It's an old school analog scope.


You can look at wideband crap on your DC power supply.


And compare the wideband crap vs other DC power supplies.


You can look at transient noise on the DC power supply under load. In this case a computer music server.


You can use it with some additional simple circuitry to make a curve tracer, measure capacitor ESR, measure RC time constant, use as a TDR to measure and troubleshoot cables, create funky lissajous patterns, create a digital clock, etc.

And you can fry your scope by probing around where you shouldn't if you don't pay attention to earth referenced ground.... as one inmate in Computer Audio did a few months ago.









 

RE: Gosh, that's inspiring. , posted on April 13, 2015 at 21:51:10
rick_m
Audiophile

Posts: 6230
Location: Oregon
Joined: August 11, 2005
 "Do you have an extra $1300 for a 1.5GHz entry model Spectrum Analyzer? Rigol..."

Well, maybe not "extra" exactly but I could scrape it up. That do look interesting, have you any experience with their products and service? I'm a Tek fancier from long experience and loyalty to a local outfit but I could be bought... cheaply.

TNX Rick

 

RE: Gosh, that's inspiring. , posted on April 14, 2015 at 06:57:49
AbeCollins
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Joined: June 22, 2001
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  Since: February 2, 2002
 I have no direct experience but I've read reviews of Rigol gear including that Spectrum Analyzer in QST Magazine, as well as on YouTube.

I was a Tek fan for a long time too but it seems that in recent years a lot Tek instruments are just Tek spec'd but manufactured offshore. Nothing wrong with that I suppose but if you dig into the specs, like screen size and resolution, standard features, etc., other brands seem to offer more.

Agilent for example, or should I say Keysight Technologies since they changed their name last year. This used to be the old HP. Their scopes seem to offer more for less vs Tek.

With Rigol even though they're made offshore, they have good representation in the US for sales, service, and support. You might get even more for your money from brands like Owon but I wonder about US based service and support.

http://www.qsl.net/ke4pwe/Test_RIGOL_QST_February%202013.pdf

If you visit YouTube and search on EEVBlog you will find a long series of videos done by Engineer Dave Jones, many of them video reviews of test equipment and power supplies. If you search for EEVBlog Rigol, you'll find a bunch of Rigol gear that he's reviewed including Rigol spectrum analyzers, power supplies, and scopes.

Fun stuff, much of it I can't afford or justify as a hobbyist.

BTW, I find it interesting that Rigol's US Sales headquarters is located in Beaverton, OR. Tek used to be headquartered there, maybe they still are. I'm not sure.



 

RE: What to do with an Oscilloscope, posted on June 10, 2015 at 11:50:01
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 I did not realize that the newer digital scopes did FFT. That could be very useful with the right auxiliary equipment. All my scopes are older CT scopes one is tube (and still works!).

Dave

 

RE: What to do with an Oscilloscope, posted on June 15, 2015 at 00:27:36
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Should it be possible to Compare 2 'identical' components?

Put the same signal thru them and look at output of each. Can't you subtract or add traces?

If I owned a scope, I'd experiment with Vibration first off.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Gosh, that's inspiring. , posted on August 2, 2015 at 21:05:01
John Elison
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Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 You're right; the price for spectrum analyzers begins around $1300 or so. However, you can get what looks like a very nice 50-MHz four channel digital storage oscilloscope for $399. I'm tempted to buy one even though I already own a Tektronix two channel digital storage oscilloscope that I paid about $1600 for twelve years ago. ;-)

 

RE: What to do with an Oscilloscope, posted on August 3, 2015 at 05:17:01
Old nuff 2 no better
Audiophile

Posts: 516
Location: Upstate NY
Joined: September 3, 2007
 I still use my boat-anchor tube scopes every day. The big knobs fit my big hands and the high resolution analog trace lets me see fuzz on waveforms that I'd miss on a digital. The high gain plug-in lets me see noise in audio circuits you couldn't see with other scopes. I enjoy using analog scopes of any flavor.

I use digital scopes at work. They increase productivity and let you see very slow phenomena. Yes, they have FFT, but IMO it's completely worthless, especially for audio. The problem is most scopes have a linear frequency scale for their FFT display. Audio requires a log display to cover any decent range and accomplish anything. An FFT scope is a poor second to a spectrum analyzer. The lower end digitals don't have as much vertical resolution as I'd really like. There are some great digital scopes out there, but the ones I'd want to own are way out of my price range.

IMO, when you say, "Damn, if I had a scope I could see this", then it's time to buy a scope. If you're wondering what to do with one, it's probably not going to help you much and you'll quickly lose interest. The above post about how you think is very important. I've worked with people who've used scopes for years but still don't know how to properly set one up to view a specific waveform or feature. It's still a matter of luck with them. You need to understand why a scope shows you what it does, and why the many triggering options exist.

 

RE: What to do with an Oscilloscope, posted on September 13, 2015 at 09:06:05
jamestavegia@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 275
Location: Atlanta, GA
Joined: November 26, 2013
 If you are a vinyl guy you could get some test lps that have sinewave and square wave tones and she how your total playback system handles them. Could be a very fun exercise.
Jim Tavegia

 

I bought this one, posted on January 25, 2017 at 14:24:20
jedrider
Audiophile

Posts: 15167
Location: No. California
Joined: December 26, 2003

Still not sure what to do with it, but the price used '$220' was irresistible to me. Thanks for all the comments. Yeah, I could have had a 100 pound analog scope for even less, but this will be easy to start with and the wife won't complain about all the clutter.

 

I found out!, posted on June 7, 2018 at 13:05:19
jedrider
Audiophile

Posts: 15167
Location: No. California
Joined: December 26, 2003
 Hey, I am hardly using any of the functionality of the oscilloscope. But I built an op-amp based pre-amplifier kit and I mis-soldered a few joints on one channel. So, probing with the oscilloscope makes it easy to see what is going on because you can carefully hold the probe and out of the corner of your eye, see the results. You can't do that with most multi-meters because then you then have to focus your eyes enough to read numbers which are also, typically, dimly lit.

 

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