Tide going out on Tidal?

Not good, but who's buying them..., posted on September 13, 2016 at 15:22:24
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 46280 Location: USA Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	....if anyone? The last rumor had Apple buying them but that's old news and old rumor.

RE: Tide going out on Tidal?, posted on September 13, 2016 at 15:42:49

PAR

Well Jay-Z isn't the sole investor. For a comparatively new business establishing not just itself but a whole new market (albeit not as the sole player) such losses may be sustainable for a substantial period. After all it only represents the price of a nice residence in Manhatten for the super rich. They will own several such residences around the world.

Remember Amazon lost many times that sum annually for years. As an example in 2012 they lost $274M!

RE: Not good, but who's buying them..., posted on September 13, 2016 at 21:45:08
Jaundiced Ear	Apparently enough people aren't even buying the songs, let alone the company. Let's see how long Tidal circles the drain. By the way, is it me, or has Pono dropped off the radar? JE

RE: Tide going out on Tidal?, posted on September 13, 2016 at 22:02:29

Jaundiced Ear

I don't think Amazon and Tidal are comparable.

Amazon lost money for years because Bezos was aggressively reinvesting profits. Amazon had lots and lots of sales, they were just also buying up as much as they could.

By contrast, Tidal seems to be having major cash flow problems. As per the article: "Tidal has also received around a hundred payment default records since Jay-Z bought the company through his holding group Project Panther Bidco for $56 million in March 2015." Yeow! That averages a complaint every week and is evidence that Tidal is struggling to pay its bills. It appears that there simply aren't enough people out there willing to pay for what Tidal is selling. It's hard to see how Tidal is going to maintain the status quo, much less expand. I'm not saying they are down and out, but they are either going to have to lower their costs or make their product more desirable.

Any thoughts on how they can do either?

JE

RE: Not good, but who's buying them..., posted on September 13, 2016 at 22:41:33

AbeCollins
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Posts: 46280
Location: USA
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I didn't want to say anything about our beloved Pono but since you brought it up.

1) I thought the player was a joke. A huge triangular wedge of cheese in your ass pocket? Come on!

2) The Pono Music store went down a couple months ago and it remains shut down. The website still says "Under Construction". Will they ever come back?

The best part of the review begins at about 2:20 on the time scale:

RE: Not good, but who's buying them..., posted on September 13, 2016 at 23:57:47

Jaundiced Ear

LOL! Thanks for posting that link!

I always thought the Pono looked like the result of an illicit congress between an original "Chunky" candy bar and the "DeVito" version of a Toblerone candy bar.

I had to laugh at the point where the pod-caster points out that Charles Ayre admitting that the US$400 Pono has "80-90%" of the "sound" of his US$27,500 Ayre Acoustics KX-R Twenty pre-amp is not so much praise of the Pono, but an indictment of the US$27,500 pre-amp. At a wild guess, I hypothesize that the majority of consumers would struggle to hear a difference between the two. But that is just a guess.

JE

RE: Not good, but who's buying them..., posted on September 14, 2016 at 03:43:19
Mercman Audiophile Posts: 6581 Location: So. CA Joined: October 20, 2002	Yes, the Ayre KX-R Twenty is a fugazzi! When I opened mine up, a Pono player was sitting in the case. Nothing else. As for the sound? Forgetaboutit!!!!!!!

RE: Tide going out on Tidal?, posted on September 14, 2016 at 04:58:05
DrN Audiophile Posts: 366 Joined: January 31, 2014	Well, I could care less. I will never pay for Tidal! Looks like MQA is now in not a good position either. Again, personally could care less. Tidal would have to raise the price again to offer MQA.

RE: Tide going out on Tidal?, posted on September 14, 2016 at 05:36:04

Condorsat
Audiophile

Posts: 1909
Location: NE Ohio
Joined: January 13, 2003

IMHO ... Jay Z was looking for a flip from the start.

The streaming game is for deep pocket players only ... big wallets are willing to loose money for years ... with the plan of eventually owning Boardwalk or Park Place (the music streaming revenue portal) ... long term payday.

Even Pandora is trying to keep itself relevant ... by entering the subscription streaming game ... you are either climbing or falling in that space.

Hard media has no future and will continue to become ultra niche or totally irrelevant with the next generation.

+1........................, posted on September 14, 2016 at 07:45:44
Cut-Throat Audiophile Posts: 18285 Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area Joined: September 2, 2000 Contributor Since: May 16, 2021	"Hard media has no future and will continue to become ultra niche or totally irrelevant with the next generation." Totally Agree. Services like Spotify have over 30 Million Tracks. How long would it take and how much would it cost to assemble your own music Library that big? I have over 5,000 Albums but rarely listen to my own collection.

I still love my Pono player, posted on September 14, 2016 at 07:45:54
jec01 Audiophile Posts: 1462 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Joined: September 22, 2004	As a desktop audio system, it sounds seriously good. But I can see why it wouldn't appeal to lots of people. None of the rest of the Pono project made any sense to me. Happy listening, Jim "The passage of my life is measured out in shirts." - Brian Eno

RE: Not good, but who's buying them..., posted on September 14, 2016 at 08:58:42
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 46280 Location: USA Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	I'd love to have the Ayre KX-R Twenty! Pono, not so much. That said, the Ayre Codex might be a fun DAC to play with. Wish it had a remote volume control.

RE: Not good, but who's buying them..., posted on September 14, 2016 at 09:27:05
Mercman Audiophile Posts: 6581 Location: So. CA Joined: October 20, 2002	My new KX-R Twenty and MX-R Twenty amps are excellent sounding. The Codex was very special, particularly for the price. But I want to get my hands on a QX-5 Twenty to listen to.

RE: Not good, but who's buying them..., posted on September 14, 2016 at 14:52:21
Bob_C Audiophile Posts: 2667 Location: NY Joined: July 31, 2000	Steve, Are you sure there wasn't a pony in there???

Maybe ? (nt), posted on September 14, 2016 at 15:39:23
Mercman Audiophile Posts: 6581 Location: So. CA Joined: October 20, 2002	.

RE: Tide going out on Tidal?, posted on September 22, 2016 at 10:24:17
TubeDriver Audiophile Posts: 794 Location: East Coast Joined: February 16, 2007	Clearly Tidal is running out of time. Which is a shame because a significant amount of my listening is with tidal (alternative being vinyl). I got turned on to LOTs of new music by being able to stream RB quality music at will. Having ~30 million choices on hand beats out my 1200+ LPs/1000+ CDs anyday.

Other Choices........, posted on September 22, 2016 at 12:01:49

Cut-Throat
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Spotify for one. It is 320kbps which I could not distinguish from Tidal. If you are hung up on getting Lossless Streaming, you can go to Deezer Elite. I had Deezer and Tidal, but dropped both in favor of Spotify.

If you want Deezer Elite, you can get it by buying a Sonos Connect, then signing up for Deezer Elite, and then returning your Sonos. I was able to stream Deezer Elite from LMS via Ickstream.

RE: Other Choices........, posted on September 22, 2016 at 12:22:24

rrob
Audiophile

Posts: 762
Location: Kansas
Joined: February 7, 2010

Spotify is losing money too.

losses

RE: Other Choices........, posted on September 22, 2016 at 12:31:01
Cut-Throat Audiophile Posts: 18285 Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area Joined: September 2, 2000 Contributor Since: May 16, 2021	I'm not a Stockholder of Spotify, and I am not wedded to any service..... The streaming arena is pretty volatile right now. And as a consumer, there are other choices. I used to love MOG, which was bought out by Beats, and then Apple bought Beats and destroyed it all. Apple is no friend of the Music Consumer.

Computer Audio Asylum

Tide going out on Tidal?

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