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Are I2S DACs The Future?

69.54.140.123
Posted on September 5, 2016 at 20:43:56
jaydacus
 I've been listening to this DAC for the past few days and I have to say that I have not heard anything in the USB DAC family that could beat this for under $600. At under $100 including the "computer"(Raspberry Pi running Moode Audio Player), power supply(not linear yet), and micro SD card this player has no right to sound as good as it does.

The whole headless thing is a really nice touch as well. I really like being able to control it from my phone or tablet. I could even use the player in "hotpot" mode from any WIFI enabled device without a network.

I don't know if this is the future, but I am perfectly happy letting it be my foreseeable future.

 

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RE: Are I2S DACs The Future?, posted on September 6, 2016 at 10:47:57
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 18285
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
  Since: May 16, 2021
 I also have a similar setup.... Maybe the emperor has no clothes.



 

RE: Are I2S DACs The Future?, posted on September 8, 2016 at 01:55:50
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 2426
Joined: July 11, 2007
 Welcome to the club!

My preferred HAT-DAC for the time being is the MamboBerry LT with Sabre DAC, which sells for 55Euro.

Most of these PI/HAT-DAC combos have quite some tweaking potential.
My first recommendation would be to buy an iFi iPower.

If the DAC and your wallet allows, feeding the combo with a
2nd supply usually turns out into a slightly better performance.

These HAT-DACs come with certain limitations though!!!
One of the weak spots is the rather low quality PI-I2S bus.
Poor I2S fed right into the DAC translates right into poor audio.
That's why numerous modifications will have a rather direct impact to the sound.
One potential solution. A HAT DAC with Sabre DAC. Sabre claims that their DACs are able to cope with rather low-Q I2S.
The poor PI I2S shouldn't be problem then. Hmmh. Life is a bitch. That's not the case. I think Sabre could do better. Still it performs OK.

Slaving the PI I2S with quality clocks from the DAC side is another option.
HifiBerry tries this with its DAC+ Pro.
Result: People can hardly tell a difference between the DAC+ Pro and the standard DAC+. Hmmh. Another dead-end.

I2S is also used by USB DACs btw. These basically convert the USB supplied data stream into highest quality I2S signals towards the DAC.
Comparing PI I2S and USB I2S would show two different worlds.
The typical clocking scheme of USB DACs is usually much more advanced than the one you'll find on the PI.
However. We all know how much money can be spent to clean up USB properly.
USB has other issues.


And as you said. These DACs have no right to sound as good as they do considering all these potential flaws.

Over at DIY-Audio there are several projects ongoing which concentrate
on PI-HAT-I2S-isolators/reclockers which will be squeezed between DAC and PI.

There are also other DACs, like the great Soekris I2S R2R DAC board (300$). It's no HAT DAC. However. That one comes with I2S isolator and reclocker onboard and can be attached to the PI-I2S too.

Bottom line. I announced several months back that I'm fed up with the USB audio mess. I'm more than happy with my current setup. And look forward to the developments to come.

I btw recommend to update to the most current Moode Audio for getting access to the most up2date kernel (which comes with enhanced/updated I2S drivers)


Enjoy.

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blog latest >> The Audio Streaming Series - tuning kit pCP

 

RE: Are I2S DACs The Future?, posted on September 8, 2016 at 13:48:34
Roseval
Audiophile

Posts: 1845
Joined: March 31, 2008
 The PI is becoming popular.
Here is another DAC
http://www.collybia.com/product/mamboberry-hifi-dac-192khz-24bit/


The Well Tempered Computer

 

RE: Are I2S DACs The Future?, posted on September 9, 2016 at 00:00:47
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 2426
Joined: July 11, 2007
 "Here is another DAC"

Hmmh. Thx for the hint.

But. You might missed it. I wrote that I own this DAC. ;)



"The PI is becoming popular"

Hmmh. They just announced the 10millionth piece sold.
It is popular!


It's just the problem with many of the folks over here that

1. They seem to prefer a stoneaged PC in the living room
2. They just jump on the train as soon as one of the major manufacturers
gives his go.
3. Or it's just too cheap.


People just don't realize how much more fun it is to build your own audio
device. Especially nowadays, where toddlers can assemble a PI system.


Enjoy.


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blog latest >> The Audio Streaming Series - tuning kit pCP

 

RE: Are I2S DACs The Future?, posted on September 9, 2016 at 04:23:51
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 18285
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
  Since: May 16, 2021
 Are you powering your Pi through the Dac or the Pi Board?



 

RE: Are I2S DACs The Future?, posted on September 9, 2016 at 04:55:48
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 2426
Joined: July 11, 2007
 I'm running two separate supplies.

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RE: Are I2S DACs The Future?, posted on September 9, 2016 at 05:03:13
amolan
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Joined: March 6, 2007
 Hi soundcheck,

Could you please give us more details, maybe pics ?

Thx.

 

RE: Are I2S DACs The Future?, posted on September 9, 2016 at 05:09:46
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 2426
Joined: July 11, 2007
 Have a look at my system in the profile. It's up2date.

I also run a MamboBerry LS and a HifiBerry DAC+ Pro thread

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RE: Are I2S DACs The Future?, posted on September 9, 2016 at 07:43:46
amolan
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Joined: March 6, 2007
 Hi Soundcheck,

Do you have a link for these thread ? I couldn`t find myself .

Thanks.

 

RE: Are I2S DACs The Future?, posted on September 9, 2016 at 10:10:32
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 2426
Joined: July 11, 2007
 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/295880-mamboberry-ls-my-new-pi-hat.html

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RE: Are I2S DACs The Future?, posted on September 9, 2016 at 11:43:01
amolan
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Joined: March 6, 2007
 Thanks..

 

RE: Are I2S DACs The Future?, posted on September 21, 2016 at 19:23:43
rickl
Audiophile

Posts: 583
Location: Twin Cities
Joined: February 7, 2002
 I have a wolfson I2S dac, raspberry pi, running Rune Audio.

I like it.
looking for some jazz and a little libations - js

 

Measurements of Pi 3 + HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro... RE: Are I2S DACs The Future?, posted on October 2, 2016 at 13:50:15
Archimago
Audiophile

Posts: 821
Joined: January 18, 2002
 FYI, just put up some measurement results and discussion on the Pi 3 and HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro board...

Yup. I2S works well.


-------
Archimago's Musings: A 'more objective' audiophile blog.

 

RE: Measurements of Pi 3 + HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro... RE: Are I2S DACs The Future?, posted on October 2, 2016 at 20:31:00
jaydacus
 Thanks for the update on the technical side of things. Enjoying the listening still. The thing that was interesting was that the noise levels were virtually the same running from a battery or switching power supply. I have a switching power supply. Tried a battery pack and it sounded a little lifeless to me. Thinking about getting a switching power supply because it seems like the audiophile thing to do, but actually sounds really good with just a $10 2.5A wall wart.

Just switched back to Volumio. The stability issues that I noticed before .vs Moode seem to be fixed and the sound quality actually seems better in Volunmio. May sound strange, but "Korn-Got The Life" was the deciding test track that made me switch. Listened on Volumio and heard tons of inner detail that I had no idea was there. I was so mesmerized that I actually wanted to hear it again. Listened again on Moode and most of that interesting inner detail was missing and I got bored with the track quickly. Listened again in Volumio. Still sounded like I remembered.

 

RE: Measurements of Pi 3 + HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro... RE: Are I2S DACs The Future?, posted on July 24, 2017 at 12:07:23
Lee of Omaha
Dealer

Posts: 1800
Location: Omaha NE
Joined: September 8, 2006
 Thank you for the first-rate, science-based methodology suitable for peer review.

I just bought the device you reviewed and physically installed it. Still need to find hi-rez files to test with.

My goal is to have a hi-rez cheapo Pi 3 server on each of our equipment racks. Your review is a great help. Thanks again for your excellent work.

 

RE: Measurements of Pi 3 + HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro... RE: Are I2S DACs The Future?, posted on July 24, 2017 at 20:07:11
jaydacus
 Thanks you for resurrecting my post from almost a year ago. I still agree with almost everything I originally stated, but I have come to a few more conclusions.

-Anyone still using any type of PC/ USB based audio solution is wasting their time and money. Especially if they are using any version of Windows 10 or Linux. I have used all the way up to a $1500 DAC and overall none sounded as good as my current Raspberry Pi setup....and that was before Windows became worthless for audio. I never cared for the way any version of Linux sounded with a USB DAC.

-If you are using a HIFIBerry, but not using a linear power supply and a Kali Reclocker, you are not hearing the best that Raspberry Pi has to offer. If you have not tried every MPD(Moode, Volumio, and Rune) and decided what sounds best to you, you are not hearing the best that Raspberry Pi has to offer.

-Hi rez files are a waste of time on the Raspberry PI. Looking around the internet many would argue that Hi Rez files are a waste of time on any platform and may in fact make your music sound worse for a variety of technical reasons that I will leave it up to you to Google. I can't speak for every platform, but at least on the PI I have never heard a Hi Rez file that didn't have a better sounding(Fuller, tighter bass, more musical, enjoyable, less harsh, etc.) redbook counterpart.

 

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