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An excellent usb to I2S 'Bridge'

213.7.50.30
Posted on February 6, 2016 at 05:37:23
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 Sometime ago, I said that I would be evaluating a Hydra Z usb interface with a Regen relocked Amanero interface in my W4S DSDSe.

With the Euro low, the price for the Hydra has become more reasonable and I bought one, connecting it with a Wireworld .3m hdmi cable to the W4S and a Gustard DAC12 XMOS hdmi interface.

Replay thru the Hydra surpassed both dacs' usb interfaces, the benefits being instrument space and positioning, width and depth, and listenability.

I shall place the Regen ahead of the Hydrta and see if there will be any difference.

The Hydra can be powered by usb power (not that great), or by an external PS. I used the iFi usb power 5V output on its own.

 

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$!000 for a USB ) I2S converter?, posted on February 6, 2016 at 07:59:54
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 OK, in a world of $1K USB cables, perhaps not a big deal.

Not even sure it would have the same HDMI pin-out to match my Audio-GD DAC anyway. :-(

And after all of that, you STILL get benefit from the REGEN?

Plus, why do you still need the Gustard?




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: $!000 for a USB ) I2S converter?, posted on February 6, 2016 at 08:48:53
riffer
Audiophile

Posts: 449
Location: Toronto
Joined: December 2, 2004
 Per the Audiobyte website:

"Adjustable I2S output clock polarity, to match all HDMI/I2S/LVDS dacs available"

Audio-gd follows the PS Audio "Standard". Gustard has their own scheme.

Only problem is that there are known issues with Hydra Z into Audio-gd, at least the Master 7. I don't know if they have been resolved yet, otherwise I would have gone with one of these long ago.

 

RE: "Hydra Z into Audio-gd, at least the Master 7"..., posted on February 6, 2016 at 09:06:08
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 Do you know if the current Master 7 (mine just arrived this week) uses the so-called PS Audio HDMI 'Standard'?

Are the problems related to the HDMI input from the Hydra Z or all Audio-GD inputs?

It looks like the Hydra Z also outputs to S/PDIF?


First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

Thanks for you post, posted on February 6, 2016 at 09:42:13
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
 I am looking at these too, and decided on the Breeze.

I found the shootouts that I read about were very informative, and folks rated the Hydra super high amongst the bunch. Really glad that I found out about the thread that compared a bunch of these: the Gustard USB converter was rated super high too.
After having almost pulled the trigger on an Audiophilio II with power, - I almost made a mistake. Some of these highly rated converters are less than 1/10 the price of the Berkeley and the Audiophilio

Really interested to hear how the Regen works, even though I won't be needing one myself.....

Cheers,


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: Breeze..., posted on February 6, 2016 at 10:09:11
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001

Noticed it appears to have an AES/EBU output?

Is that the same, better or worse than I2S?


Might that work with my new Audio-gd Master 7 which has an AES input as well as HDMI, RCA and optical?

Coming to the DAC shootout on the 20th?






First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: Thanks for you post, posted on February 6, 2016 at 11:19:50
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 The Hydra is also excellent in the spdif department, although it does not have the 384k capability of Audiophilleo 1.

It does not cost $1000 in the EU.

 

RE: $!000 for a USB ) I2S converter?, posted on February 6, 2016 at 11:24:00
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 The AudioGD has the wrong pin assignments posted by Jesus originally. He has since corrected them. New Gustards have the correct ones.

The instructions posted for the Hydra adjustments are vague and there needs to be much clearer explanations in the manual.

 

The best SQ, posted on February 6, 2016 at 11:25:41
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 comes with the Regen feeding the Hydra, LiPO powered.

 

RE: Thanks for you post, posted on February 6, 2016 at 14:18:33
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 I use a Regen feeding an Intona feeding a Melodius to my Master7. I have the Breeze, Gustard, Melodius and a Tanley on the way. The Breeze is very nice. I like the Melodius because I use I2S to my Master 7. I would recommend using the AES/EBU output of the breeza. Get a nice Mogami digital cable with XLR on both ends.
Alan

 

RE: Breeze..., posted on February 6, 2016 at 14:20:19
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 Yes, the AES/EBU output on the breeze to the Master 7 sounds excellent.
Alan

 

My Master 7 has HDMI and my Master 11 has RJ45 as I2S input..., posted on February 6, 2016 at 14:35:22
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 As you have RJ45 on your Master 7, how does the Breeze sound better, via RJ45 or AES/EBU and how are the different?




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: My Master 7 has HDMI and my Master 11 has RJ45 as I2S input..., posted on February 6, 2016 at 14:49:46
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 They are very very close. I really don't know if in a blind test I would hear the difference. The AES may be a touch smoother than the I2S but that could be cable differences. For AES I use a Mogami digital xlr cable and for I2S I use an Audioquest Eithernet cable. I think the I2S has a little more resolution and supposedly the Master 7 I2S input is supposed to be the best input.
Alan

 

I am ordering the breeze as soon as they're back from the new year, posted on February 6, 2016 at 15:33:52
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
 I can't do I2s as my unit is a SPDIF input only.

John Swenson's microRendu already will have a Regen built in. I am hoping that it gets RTG on their site soon.

"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: Breeze..., posted on February 6, 2016 at 15:36:25
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
 I missed the notification on the DAC shootout, - and I have full on guests in my crib through February

Yeah, - that guy does work well with the Master 7, = as several people that are praising the synergy with the Master 7 specifically.

"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

Dang..., posted on February 6, 2016 at 16:44:24
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 Oh well, if you want to hear the Master 7 in an awful, distorted SET/Horns system, it's up and running out here on the Great Highway along with a Mac Mini set up by the same guy in Denver who did Paul McGowan's Mac as shown when he demo'ed his stuff here a month or so ago.

What I really want to compare is my multi-bit R2-R Ladder DAC and the PS Audio Direct Stream with the latest software.

THAT would interest me. I will get to hear it compared to SCHIIT's latest, the Yggdrasil, which should be VERY interesting!

I've heard the Yggdrasil paired with their best headphone amp driving a pair of HiFiMan HE-1000's at RMAF last year. Let's just say that MIGHT better my Master 11 but all I have to play with is Senn HD-600's. :-(

Master 7 is an even better DAC than the Master 11 so the 'shoot out' might be interesting.

At the end of the day, it's all GOOD.

None of it is BAD.


First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

The Breeze is 'almost' free..., posted on February 6, 2016 at 16:48:31
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 That's if I have the right product?

Link below:


First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

That's not the one, posted on February 6, 2016 at 18:12:41
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
 The one that everyone is going nutso about is the $184 with the Talema transformer and the gold clocks. Still $184 is super cheap......

"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: Dang..., posted on February 6, 2016 at 18:15:59
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
 Yeah..

I would like to hear it...

The DirectStream upsamples everything to DSD on the fly, -then does the special filtering thing.

It would be great to compare with the GD-Audio.



"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

Got a link?, posted on February 6, 2016 at 18:23:28
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 Still not the price of a REALLY good USB cable. ;-)


First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: The Breeze is 'almost' free..., posted on February 6, 2016 at 19:26:36
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 That was a bulk price. Are you buying a bunch to give as Valentine gifts?

 

RE: Got a link?, posted on February 6, 2016 at 19:44:28
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 Another link. I think you have to email and ask about the upgrade. I think it is $20 maybe.

 

Breeze is very nice, posted on February 7, 2016 at 01:00:27
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 why? it has poor PS IC, suspicious 'TCXOs' and the only attractions are look and price. It is a mass web product. I have had several of such branded products.

 

Shootout, posted on February 7, 2016 at 01:03:55
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 Can you pl post a link?

What do you think of the audiophilleo?

 

RE: Thanks for you post, posted on February 7, 2016 at 08:10:55
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 The technical stuff means nothing to me The Breeze sounds good and that's all I care about. The Melodius sounds better.
Alan

 

RE: "The Melodius sounds better", posted on February 7, 2016 at 09:41:07
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 And you tried the AES/EBU out on it as well?

That would likely be my option as I got the Master 7 with HDMI, for some reason.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: "The Melodius sounds better", posted on February 7, 2016 at 10:25:01
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 Yes. The AES/EBU sounds a little better on the Melodius. I would get the Melodius only if you can use the I2S output like I am doing. The BNC output also sounds very good. A touch bright. As I have said before all these converters sound excellent and it depends what outputs you want to decide which to buy
Alan

 

Audio-gd follows the PS Audio "Standard". Gustard has their own scheme., posted on February 7, 2016 at 21:56:44
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 No, it's the other way round. The first posted protocol was wrong and has been corrected for a long while.

 

Too many bridges, posted on February 8, 2016 at 05:19:21
genungo
 Gad, I'm starting to hate interfaces. Some people might laugh at what I go through in order to spin vinyl, but you guys make me feel tired out in no time flat. I's true that some people actually enjoy the endless bridging of techno gobbledy-gook gadgetry, "configuring", ETC...

Now I'm leaning towards a simpler solution...

 

RE: Shootout, posted on February 8, 2016 at 09:00:02
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
It is a big thread over at Head Fi. One has to sift through a lot of posts to get too the few that discuss the shootout. It was valuable to me, but I don't expect too many others to think so, largely because it seems like folks are using USB.

There was also one at Computer Audiophile

I heard the Audiophilio in comparison to a straight USB cable into a Metronome C6 DAC. The difference was noticeable for the better for most of us, - but others pointed out that the USB cable was not one that they would've chosen, given the cost of the unit.

"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: Too many bridges, posted on February 8, 2016 at 09:18:59
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 I don't know what DECWARE does to the TASCAM DA-3000, but it is definitely an excellent DAC and digital recorder. I've owned the TASCAM DA-3000 for more than a year and it has the best sounding DAC I've ever heard. It also makes excellent DSD copies of my vinyl records.

On the other hand, I really like my April Music Stello U3 USB bridge. It allows me to connect my computer to my TASCAM DA-3000 for streaming digital from Foobar2000. Unfortunately, the Stello U3 is no longer being produced so I'm glad I got one when I did. It reclocks the data and converts USB from my computer into S/PDIF and AES/EBU. It's great to take with me when I visit friends so I can plug me computer into their DAC without worrying about having their specific USB driver. It allows me to take my digital music with me when I visit friends.

Best regards,
John Elison

 

RE: Too many bridges, posted on February 8, 2016 at 09:58:12
genungo
 If your computer had SPDIF out and you did not need the Stello as a "bridge" between the Tascam, would you use it anyway?

 

RE: Too many bridges, posted on February 8, 2016 at 10:58:49
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 No, I probably wouldn't use the Stello U3 with my DA-3000 if my computer could be connected directly unless the U3's reclocking function made the music sound better. I bought the Stello U3 long before I bought the DA-3000 because I had a DAC with a USB input that was limited to 16/48 yet the DAC was capable of 24/96 via its S/PDIF input. Then I got a DAC with a 24/192 USB capability so I quit using the Stello U3. However, when I bought the TASCAM DA-3000 I found a new use for the Stello U3. It really comes in handy for certain applications.

Anyway, why do you ask?

 

RE: Too many clocks, posted on February 8, 2016 at 11:30:56
genungo
 Yes, I'm guessing that experimentation is key.

 

RE: $!000 for a USB ) I2S converter?, posted on February 8, 2016 at 18:02:43
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
 Yet another product (this time I2S) where the clock is put at the source side of the connection and not at the DAC side. This guarantees that the clock will be degraded by the time it reaches the critical place where it is actually used and creates a problem with isolating the DAC from jitter on the cable that would not exist if the clocking were at the DAC.

Would someone please explain to me why just about every manufacturer of "high end" products does this wrong?

Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

RE: $!000 for a USB ) I2S converter?, posted on February 8, 2016 at 21:51:26
motberg
Audiophile

Posts: 66
Joined: May 19, 2013



Would you consider the Tanly a better idea?
http://tanly-audio.blogspot.hk/

 

RE: $!000 for a USB ) I2S converter?, posted on February 9, 2016 at 05:48:15
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
 The only solution that is uncompromised for audiophile playback involves the clock being located right next to the DAC chip. (This may not be practical for multichannel studio applications.) The source needs to somehow be slaved to this clock, at least in frequency. The alternative, of slaving the DAC clock to a remote source clock can never be as good, if only because there are more components in the clock circuitry to create jitter.

The Tanley outputs digital, but does not accept an input clock from the DAC. It may have very high quality at its output connector, but by the time the clock arrives at the DAC it will have been degraded and have to be cleaned up again.






Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

RE: $!000 for a USB ) I2S converter?, posted on February 9, 2016 at 06:01:04
motberg
Audiophile

Posts: 66
Joined: May 19, 2013
 Thank you... the reason I ask is because I have a Tanly outputting i2S via HDMI(0.3M Wireworld Starlight 5.2) to an Audio-GD Master 7 DAC. So I am considering if it is a technically sound idea to change the DAC to NOS and use HQPlayer for the upsampling duties. Audio-GD warns that when using NOS mode, the source must be very good.... Thanks again for the info...

 

RE: $!000 for a USB ) I2S converter?, posted on February 9, 2016 at 06:12:45
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 I have my Master 7 set to NOS and have used a Breeze, Gustard and Melodius USB converters. They all sound excellent. I have a Tanly on the way
Alan

 

RE: $!000 for a USB ) I2S converter?, posted on February 9, 2016 at 07:16:59
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 You spend a lot of time on posting about where a clock should be and not it's quality, the method of transmission, the quality of any plls in place, or it's power supply. All these, and other factors matter.

You have clearly not experienced the various ways that a system can be set up to sound good or 'better' with hardware but have replied on added software, computer processing, and equalisation to set up your audio preferences.

It is absolutely useless having crap clocks next to the dac chip, which many mid priced or even high priced dacs have, including your dac.

 

RE: $!000 for a USB ) I2S converter?How much, posted on February 9, 2016 at 07:26:47
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 is a Tanley; seems similar architecture to my Hydra Z

 

RE: "Hydra Z into Audio-gd, at least the Master 7"..., posted on February 9, 2016 at 07:33:07
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 It's the AudioGD. I have used the Hydra with 2 correctly socketed dacs and there are no issues. You can also set up various output formats with adjustment pins.

 

RE: $!000 for a USB ) I2S converter?How much, posted on February 9, 2016 at 08:39:46
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 The Tanley I ordered with shipping was about $480
Alan

 

RE: $!000 for a USB ) I2S converter?How much, posted on February 9, 2016 at 11:15:26
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 Where from?

I saw a listing on tw taobao at Y2700. Is this a Chinese product and do you have a link giving details?

 

RE: $!000 for a USB ) I2S converter?How much, posted on February 9, 2016 at 14:46:19
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 You have to translate
http://world.taobao.com/item/40193288881.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a312a.7700824.w4004-1253948159.6.yUlnXt
Alan

 

RE: $!000 for a USB ) I2S converter?How much, posted on February 9, 2016 at 14:55:35
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 Here is a translation
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?ref=IE8Activity&from=&to=en&a=http%3a%2f%2fworld.taobao.com%2fitem%2f40193288881.htm%3ffromSite%3dmain%26spm%3da312a.7700824.w4004-1253948159.6.yUlnXt

Alan

 

RE: $!000 for a USB ) I2S converter?, posted on February 9, 2016 at 17:34:33
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
 I see that The Analog DAC that Mercman is presently using has an I2S input that sends out a clock to the transport, so that I2S clocking can be done properly.

Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

RE: $!000 for a USB ) I2S converter?How much, posted on February 10, 2016 at 02:12:12
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 What is your opinion of this unit (new or old version?)

 

RE: $!000 for a USB ) I2S converter?, posted on February 10, 2016 at 05:14:26
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 If you have sufficient experience with clocks, you will find that external clock arrangements don't always sound better than recovered clocks with a narrow pll.

There are so many variables, including the cable and connector impedance, that nothing theoretical is always best.

When t comes to clocking, the integrity of the signal and the impedance are of greater importance than where the XO is, given that these must have the lowest phase noise possible.

 

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