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Hookup question

108.249.169.177
Posted on November 6, 2015 at 11:19:36
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 I have a GUSTARD U12 32Bit / 384KHz DSD XMOS USB Digital Audio Interface coming that I am going to feed a Audio-GD Master 7. I want to feed the I2S output of the U12 to feed the I2S input of the Master 7. Problem. The output of the U12 I2S is a HDMI connector. The I2S input on the Master 7 is a J45 connector. What is the best way of accomplishing this connection?
Alan

 

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RE: Hookup question, posted on November 6, 2015 at 12:46:54
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 I think you would probably have to get a custom cable made. Check the pin outs on both units. Maybe Blue Jean or Redco Cable.

 

There may be an impedance mismatch, posted on November 6, 2015 at 13:00:38
Jay Buridan
Audiophile

Posts: 10271
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004
 Not sure. Please let us know what you find...

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

Doesn't King-Was sell a connector..., posted on November 6, 2015 at 13:43:25
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001

you can use to modify your RJ-45 socket to HDMI?

"For Master 7:
( please inform for Master 7 modify while place the order, no solder necessary .)
1, Pull off the original I2S kit and its wires.
2, Assemble the HDMI input kit and push into the wires to the I2S input on board socket.
3, Push into the +3.3V wire in the +3.3V socket, see the photo on right."

(The DIY always had the risk, we can't warranty any people can finished the modify succeed and safe on the unit.)

Risks aside, looks pretty easy. Exactly what would this accomplish as the Master 7 (as well as my Master 11) does not do DSD?

Link below:



First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: There may be an impedance mismatch, posted on November 6, 2015 at 13:44:16
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 Why???

 

I was told that it doesn't work between W4S MS-2 & Aqua La Scala, posted on November 6, 2015 at 16:15:24
Jay Buridan
Audiophile

Posts: 10271
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004
 You might be able to buy a connector, but the connection would not work.

As to Why??? I'm just guessing it's impedance :)

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

Slightly O.T. question about I2S over HDMI, posted on November 6, 2015 at 16:33:03
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002

I thought HDMI was the 'defacto standard' for I2S in the audiophile community. There are several DAC makers that use HDMI for I2S.

Does anyone besides Audio-GD use RJ45 for I2S? Perhaps Audio-GD makes a cable??

P.S. properly terminated HDMI and RJ45 should both be 100-Ohm impedance.

 

Originally............................, posted on November 6, 2015 at 17:20:01
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12435
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002
 I2S used a miniDIN connector and, later, I2S-E with other connectors: "Good examples of external I2S interfaces include the I2S-E and the original 13W3-I2S standard developed by Kevin Halverson of Muse..."
Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/sonic-frontiers-transport-3-cd-transport-processor-3-da-processor-isup2sups-two-dont-always-#qT8AJimUtL7SHxCA.99

Using HDMI is relatively new.

 

RE: Originally............................, posted on November 6, 2015 at 17:25:14
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
I'll take a look at the article you linked to. Thanks Kal !



 

FWIW, posted on November 6, 2015 at 19:01:45
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12435
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002
 I published 2 articles ("Get on the Bus," parts 1 and 2) in The Audio Amateur (now AudioXpress) which describe how to add i2s to players/dacs which lack it. The relevant hardware is now fairly out-of-date but the principles are still valid.

 

RE: Slightly O.T. question about I2S over HDMI, posted on November 6, 2015 at 21:38:50
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 Actually the Master 7 can be had with either RJ45 or HDMI inputs for I2S. Mine came with RJ45. They have a conversion kit but don't really want to do that The Gustard also has XLR, Coax and BNC outputs. I only bought the Gustard because the price dropped again. I will probably wind up using it in a second system
Alan

 

RE: Historical I2S, posted on November 7, 2015 at 19:54:57
Jeff Starr
Audiophile

Posts: 1574
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Joined: March 4, 2000
 I came across I2S being used on Camelot dacs and Audio Alchemy. I was using an Audio Alchemy Jitter box, that allowed me to run the transport into the AA with a 75ohm cable using a BNC plug adaptor, output from the jitter box to the dac with an Audio Magic I2S cable.

As I remember the mini din connectors were kind of fragile. The selling point was having the data and the clock on separate wires.

I think it was the later 1990s 0r early 2000s

 

RE: Slightly O.T. question about I2S over HDMI, posted on November 8, 2015 at 04:33:14
motberg
Audiophile

Posts: 66
Joined: May 19, 2013
 I have had the Melodius MX-U8 DDC (RJ45 i2S) and a Tanly DDC (HDMI i2S) modified to work with my Master 7 which has both the HDMI and RJ45 inputs. In both of these cases it seemed like the DDC factory mentioned that there was something more to change other than just the wire pinouts. These both worked well, and I am using the Tanly currently.

Previously, I also had the Gustard DDC and tried the HDMI i2S output into another DAC... but.. the Gustard does not have an on/off switch, so if there is some power to the USB input, it is live.. (even if the source is shut down), say for example in the case of an iFi iUSBPower being in-between the source and the DDC. In my case I fried something plugging-in the HDMI cord with the Gustard live, even though there are quite a few warnings around concerning not plugging i2S while either side is live.

Besides the possibility that the USB->i2S conversion may be accomplished better in a dedicated device, also consider that the XMOS system may offer source compatibility benefits over some of the other chips used in the DAC's original USB input. That was the main reason I opted for i2S (and no USB) when I ordered the M7. Now however, Kingwa has 3 USB chip options available, so if a buyer already has preferred software - he can buy that USB chip option which works most reliably, and always have the other SPDIF and i2S option for future tweaking.

 

Late 90s. (NT), posted on November 8, 2015 at 14:31:08
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12435
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002

 

I thought HDMI was the 'defacto standard' for I2S in the audiophile community, posted on November 8, 2015 at 17:20:59
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 You thought wrong; do some research first. RJ45 is another format calling for simpler and cheaper cabling.

 

RE: Slightly O.T. question about I2S over HDMI, posted on November 8, 2015 at 17:27:32
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 Actually Audio GD uses the wrong hdmi protocol that used to be posted on the web and has since been corrected. This transposes the + and - signal polarities but what effect this may have, I do not know.

I have checked the correct wiring protocol with W4S, on top of the corrected data given by Sonore.

Other Chinese vendors have since corrected this mistake.

 

OK then, what is the current most widely used connection for I2S ?, posted on November 9, 2015 at 07:34:51
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
So what is the current most widely used connection interface for I2S among modern audiophile equipment?

HDMI? RJ45? Other? Pick ONE.

I'm not taking about stuff from 20 years ago. Lets say within the past 3 to 5 years at most.

 

RE: " You thought wrong; do some research first. RJ45 is another format..., posted on November 9, 2015 at 13:52:00
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 calling for simpler and cheaper cabling."


Another 'fmak attack'?

Could be. :-(


First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

Aqua La Scala uses 12S over RJ45, posted on November 9, 2015 at 14:24:59
Jay Buridan
Audiophile

Posts: 10271
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004
 A few others that I can't recall right now.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

Another, posted on November 9, 2015 at 15:00:42
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 correction to another incorrect statement.

 

Paul McGowan of PS Audio fame is an I2S kind of guy..., posted on November 9, 2015 at 15:39:46
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001

Doesn't care much for USB or so he claims.

Note what he uses as an I2S connector in is latest and greatest DirectStream DAC pictured above. ;-)

Hint: Not RJ45




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

You attacked him for asking a question..., posted on November 9, 2015 at 16:04:32
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 Re-read his post and your reply.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: You attacked him for asking a question..., posted on November 9, 2015 at 18:13:11
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 You have a weird interpretation of what is an attack.

 

RE: Paul McGowan of PS Audio fame is an I2S kind of guy..., posted on November 10, 2015 at 15:34:25
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
Same for Wyred4Sound, but I thought fmak would chime in since he knows everything.



 

RE: Doesn't King-Was sell a connector..., posted on November 10, 2015 at 21:29:43
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 King Wa told me there will be a level mismatch and a cable to go from HDMI to J45 will not work
Alan

 

If you buy cheap crap directly from China...., posted on November 11, 2015 at 07:09:09
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 Like he and I often do...

That said, even my new Audio-GD Master 11 comes either way, although according to him, with the HDMI port wired wrong even though folks are using it. ;-)

The Regen should be here in a few weeks (now early December).

Talked to Paul McGowan at a local audio meet-up where he was showing his DirectStream DAC and his new mono-block amps. He's using a Regen on his DAC that was given to him by John Swenson at RMAF. Must work as the DirectStream would likely be my first choice if I HAD to have DSD.

His sand amps aren't half bad either.

Don't ask what kind of computer he was using to stream from, because...

Link below:







First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: Aqua La Scala uses 12S over RJ45, posted on November 12, 2015 at 13:30:55
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
 What are the electrical characteristics of the signals?

Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

Tony, I don't know; but there are few off-the-shelf compatible music servers, posted on November 12, 2015 at 14:15:31
Jay Buridan
Audiophile

Posts: 10271
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004
 Few, perhaps none, if one wants to take advantage of the RJ45 input :(

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

RE: If you buy cheap crap directly from China...., posted on November 15, 2015 at 07:32:50
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
I'm still waiting for fmak to respond to my query since he knows everything. Unfortunately he went silent when asked a direct question. Kind of expected that from him though.

So what is the current most widely used connection interface for I2S among modern audiophile equipment?

HDMI? RJ45? Other? Pick ONE.


 

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