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Windwos 10 update

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Posted on July 31, 2015 at 04:51:03
Mercman
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Posts: 6581
Location: So. CA
Joined: October 20, 2002
 I am having issues with Roon and Windows 10 Home. When I try to import a "lost drive" it won't stop duplicating tracks. I had to reinstall JRiver, but it kept my libraries / settings and works OK.

Asus posted a new Bios version today and I loaded it without issue.

The fun never ends!

 

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RE: Windwos 10 update, posted on July 31, 2015 at 05:38:50
RadioWonder
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Posts: 1236
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 16, 2003
 Sorry to hear... Thanks for the update, much appreciated...

 

RE: Windwos 10 update, posted on July 31, 2015 at 07:27:26
Poinzy
 Thanks for the update. Yep, I'm definitely waiting until next year to make an OS upgrade.

 

RE: Windows 10 update, posted on July 31, 2015 at 09:32:01
Mike B.
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Posts: 26352
Location: OR
Joined: September 27, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 1, 1999
 hum. I have my dedicated music computer scheduled for the move from 8.1 I have a second laptop setup with Jriver. Might do that one first as a trial.



 

RE: Windwos 10 update, posted on July 31, 2015 at 10:30:13
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 Why don't inmates just wait for bugs to be sorted? I have disabled GWX on my computers. Something goes wrong and one stands to lose important records.

 

RE: Windwos 10 update, posted on July 31, 2015 at 12:06:02
Mercman
Audiophile

Posts: 6581
Location: So. CA
Joined: October 20, 2002
 All is working well for me now Fred. I'll see how it sounds this evening. A fresh install of Roon did the trick. The OS seems pretty solid in its function.

 

RE: Windwos 10 update, posted on July 31, 2015 at 12:07:25
AbeCollins
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Posts: 46280
Location: USA
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  Since: February 2, 2002
"Why don't inmates just wait for bugs to be sorted?" .....

Because some of us don't mind being on the leading edge and tinkering with a new OS.

"Something goes wrong and one stands to lose important records."

Sure, but some of us "IT Guys" know enough to 1) not update an important production system or, 2) have ways to revert back to the previous OS quickly if something goes terribly wrong.... or both 1 and 2.

If Windows 10 blows, just snapshot back to Windows 8.1 with a couple mouse clicks




 

RE: Windwos 10 update, posted on July 31, 2015 at 12:55:12
Mercman
Audiophile

Posts: 6581
Location: So. CA
Joined: October 20, 2002
 Yes, you are right Abe. You have 60 days to restore your system to 8.1.

 

RE: Windwos 10 update-I wonder, posted on July 31, 2015 at 13:20:44
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 if IT Guys are interested in audio.

 

RE: Windwos 10 update-I'll wait for your, and others reports, posted on July 31, 2015 at 13:22:31
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 For now, I have better things to do.

 

RE: Windwos 10 update, posted on July 31, 2015 at 13:37:59
Jaundiced Ear
 I think you'll find Win 10 to be pretty solid overall, but with some rough edges here and there. I'd expect a lot of updates over the next few weeks and the next few months!

JE

 

Windows 10 delema, posted on July 31, 2015 at 14:34:47
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 I hope Mercman won't mind the thread intrusion, but this seemed like the most logical place to post this, given his topic.

I ordered a new computer through Costco (a Dell desktop) about two weeks ago, which is still sitting unopened in the box. It has Windows 8.1 installed.

Yesterday I got an email ad from Costco with the same computer, except with Windows 10 installed. The only other difference is that the computer I ordered has 1 TB of hard drive space, and the new model has 2 TB.

I can take the unopened 8.1 computer back to Costco, and order the new Windows 10 version for $100 more. I only use about 62 GB of my current XP computer's 120 GB hard drive, so the extra TB is a bonus, but not a necessity.

Given that I could open the 8.1 version, use it, and download 10 later, which would be the option you'd chose? I'd be paying $100 for an extra TB of hard drive, plus the admittedly minor aggravation of returning one and ordering another. The real question is whether the computer with 10 already installed would be less problematic than downloading 10 later.

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

RE: Windows 10 delema, posted on July 31, 2015 at 14:48:41
Mercman
Audiophile

Posts: 6581
Location: So. CA
Joined: October 20, 2002
 Life would be simpler with Windows 10 preloaded. The upgrade doesn't deal with all issues. Often, computer specific drivers have to be updated as well as the bios.

A clean install is always preferred over an update. But in this case, the so called update might just be Windows 8.1 with a new interface. The essentials don't seem that different from 8.1. But there are probably enough differences to make life potentially challenging.

I would opt for the Windows 10 computer.

 

RE: Windows 10 delema, posted on July 31, 2015 at 15:17:04
AbeCollins
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Posts: 46280
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  Since: February 2, 2002
 It might save you some hassles by having 10 pre-installed plus you get a little more disk space. Since you haven't opened your current 8.1 system, I would turn in and get 10 ready to go out of the box on the new one.


 

Careful of the EULA and the default terms of service, posted on July 31, 2015 at 15:40:50
Chris from Lafayette
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Posts: 26437
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 6, 2012
 Putin's looking out for us!;-)

 

RE: Careful of the EULA and the default terms of service, posted on July 31, 2015 at 16:17:19
Mercman
Audiophile

Posts: 6581
Location: So. CA
Joined: October 20, 2002
 Turn this off.

 

RE: Windwos 10 update-I wonder, posted on July 31, 2015 at 17:12:23
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
The question should be whether IT Guys are interested in 'computer' audio. The answer is yes, and it helps that IT Guys at least have a clue about computers to begin with.


 

RE: Windows 10 delema, posted on July 31, 2015 at 18:54:14
Jaundiced Ear
 I'd stick with the one you've already got.

Since an upgrade to Windows 10 is free for the next year, you are basically paying $100 for a one terabyte upgrade. 1. $100 for a terabyte of disk space is pretty expensive these days and 2. Given your past history, by the time you come close to filling the disk space in the machine you have now it will probably be time for a new PC any way.

While a clean install of Windows is always preferable to an updated version, either machine you order is likely to be stuffed with Dell's bloatware, that is, software you neither want nor need. Dumping that junk would be far more useful than getting a clean install of Windows. I don't know if the update to Windows 10 would give you a bloatware free end result, but if it did, then you'd be better off with an upgraded system than you would be with a fresh install of Windows burdened with bloatware.

And you'd have an extra $100 in your pocket.

JE

 

Yup - I'd heard there was some commotion about that [nt], posted on July 31, 2015 at 19:38:05
Chris from Lafayette
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Posts: 26437
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 6, 2012

 

Thanks - I wasn't aware of this..., posted on July 31, 2015 at 20:50:58
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 ...but I am now, and it is now disabled.


 

Think of it this way:, posted on July 31, 2015 at 22:36:21
Jaundiced Ear
 way back when, gentlemen had valets to care for them and their day to day business. The classic example of this is Bertie Wooster and his valet Jeeves. While the valets made things exceedingly easy for the gentlemen, they were also privy to private details that the gentlemen would not have wanted to be made public.

Microsoft is offering you a virtual valet. Whether or not you want to trust that valet is up to you. The more you trust it, the more it can do for you. The less you trust it, the less it can do for you.

I'm of the opinion that I can fold my own socks and am willing to deal with the subsequent privations. However, I also recognize that a valet needs to know some intimate details of you in order to do his business. The valet is not being evil, it is just part of being what a valet is.

JE

 

RE: Windows 10 delema, posted on July 31, 2015 at 23:55:31
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 I'd stick with W8.1 and image the disk before you update. If you don't like W10, restore to an SSD which costs less than $100 and use the existing disk for storage.

Why join those whose missions seem to be to try out and debug W10?

 

RE: Windows 10 delema, posted on August 1, 2015 at 00:04:17
Mercman
Audiophile

Posts: 6581
Location: So. CA
Joined: October 20, 2002
 I forgot about the crapware. Good point.

 

RE: "Life would be simpler with Windows 10 preloaded", posted on August 1, 2015 at 03:23:42
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 Thanks, Mercman, that is my goal here.

I appreciate you letting me horn in on your thread too.

 

RE: "It might save you some hassles", posted on August 1, 2015 at 03:27:04
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 Thanks for your input, Abe. Minimizing hassles is my intent in asking. If spending $100 saves me some headaches it seems worth it.

 

You've given me more to think about, posted on August 1, 2015 at 03:51:31
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 I read (but didn't respond to) Mercman's and Abe's replies last night, and was set to take the new 8.1 OS PC back to Costco first thing Monday morning.

You make a compelling argument against doing so, and I appreciate the feedback. I like the idea of keeping $100 in my pocket, and would never have considered returning my "bird in hand" computer and spending $100 solely for the extra terabyte of hard drive space. It's the potential aggravation of the upgrade that I'm trying to avoid. And as I get older, $100 for some peace of mind is often money well spent.

Thanks!




 

RE: "Why join those whose missions seem to be to try out and debug W10?", posted on August 1, 2015 at 03:58:44
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 My goal is to minimize my frustrations, not increase them. That's why I posed the question.

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it.

 

Nonsense...., posted on August 1, 2015 at 07:53:50
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 The valet was not in business for the purpose of monetizing his master's personal information as most ALL companies are today.

As I understand it in Windows 10, even Solitaire pushes ads!




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

The right move in IMO is ditch Windows 8.1. Jump to Windows 10, posted on August 1, 2015 at 09:11:26
AbeCollins
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Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 My thought on the topic is that Windows 8/8.1 was a short lived dog that no one really liked. For example, there were a number of freebie workarounds that immediately popped up on the net for getting the familiar Start Menu back. Then MS finally listened to the public outcry and brought it back half-assed in 8.1. That sluggish charms bar to the right of desktop screen doesn't belong in a traditional desktop environment. And many other annoyances as they tried to 'merge' a tablet OS with a desktop OS.

They tried to push everyone toward their tiled interface which is OK for a touchscreen tablet but in doing so they made it less than friendly for the typical user who grew accustomed to the traditional desktop. You can configure 8.1 to boot into the traditional desktop but you still had quirky remnants of that tiled "modern UI" to deal with and a half-ass Start Menu. They created a bastardized compromise operating system that didn't sit well with the public, at least for those who had no need for a tablet. Few users truly embraced 8.1 and many stuck to Windows 7.

Listening to their customers, MS promised a better experience in Windows 10, and so far it appears to be mostly true. Window 10 is what 8/8.1 should have been. So my take on your issue is, why buy a new Windows 8.1 PC, spend the time configuring it, then wait for a huge Windows 10 download to complete, wait again for it to install, wait for it to create a default configuration, then spend the time (again) to configure it to your liking. etc. Skip 8.1 completely. Jump to Windows 10.

You'll do doubt experience some growing pains with 10 as MS fixes issues that crop up but 10 is noticeably better than 8 right out the shoot. At least you'll be getting ahead of the learning curve with 10 instead of clinging to that 8.1 dog as some inmates suggest doing.

Plus, the new machine will have a 'clean install' of Windows 10 rather than overwriting 8.1.

It took a good hour to download the Windows 10 upgrade, let it install, let it do it's default configuration, and now I need to spend time configuring it the way I want. If you're buying a new PC, why bother doing all of that in Windows 8.1, then have to do it yet again for Windows 10.

You'd think I'm a "MS fanboy" from what I've written so far but it's pretty clear that Windows 8/8.1 was dead in the water from the beginning and folks were waiting for 10. And so far 10 appears to be much better.

A couple articles:

Why Windows 10 is better

Windows 10 vs 8.1 the major differences



 

RE: Windows 10 delema, posted on August 1, 2015 at 09:11:47
Adam O
Audiophile

Posts: 188
Joined: September 26, 1999
 A few other considerations: Are you familiar with 8.1? If not, you may want to consider the ease of use factor. I tried and did not like 8 and 8.1 (and my wife adamantly refuses to use a computer with 8 or 8.1) and stuck with Windows 7 on my main computers. I have used Windows 10 for a few days on one of my computers and it seems much more intuitive than 8.1. Also, the consensus of reviewers seems to be that 10, although not without quirks, is a worthwhile upgrade (you might want to check out cnet, Extreme Tech, Gizmodo, Maximum PC, etc., but see Tom's Hardware on rolling back from 10).

Another factor is your choice of security program(s). Norton, for example, is not yet fully functional on 10 if you opt for 10's new browser, Edge; however, it's my understanding that you can use Internet Explorer in Windows 10 with full Norton function until Edge and Norton are fully compatible (also, I have had no problems with using Malwarebytes Anti-Malware in Edge).

As far as the extra storage, the general rule is overestimate what you think you need. The trend is toward downloading music and if you are interested in downloading hi rez, you will appreciate the extra storage.

Finally (sorry for the length of this post), as pointed out above, you can run into problems when upgrading to 10 from 8.1. For example, I kept getting an error code with multiple failed installations until I disconnected my second hard drive, then all went smoothly.

Hope that helps and best of luck with your choice.

Adam
Adam O


 

RE: The right move in IMO is ditch Windows 8.1. Jump to Windows 10, posted on August 1, 2015 at 16:12:45
Mercman
Audiophile

Posts: 6581
Location: So. CA
Joined: October 20, 2002
 All good points Abe. But I must say that the upgrade from 8.1 to 10 was as perfect an update that I have ever experienced. Fast download ( I have very fast internet service) and fast installation. I have been exploring all around the software and I am not finding any issues. Microsoft really got it right this time.

 

RE: Nonsense...., posted on August 1, 2015 at 16:26:19
Jaundiced Ear
 You should read "Jeeves and the Tie that Binds" by P.G. Wodehouse for a hilarious take on what happens when a valet tries to peddle secrets about an employer.

"As I understand it in Windows 10, even Solitaire pushes ads!"

Not on my machine! ;)

JE

 

RE: The right move in IMO is ditch Windows 8.1. Jump to Windows 10, posted on August 1, 2015 at 17:01:27
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 I have to agree that the Windows 10 upgrade has been pretty clean and glitch free compared to previous versions.

But even with my fairly fast internet of 100+ Mbps, it still took a good hour in total when you combine the download time, install time, multiple reboots, waiting for Windows to create a default configuration, etc. By the time it was ready to actually use I'd say it took me about an hour, and that's before custom configuring everything to my liking.... which I'm still working on casually.

So my point is for a new PC purchase, why bother with booting up a fresh Windows 8.1, setting it up, and then going through the hassle of downloading, installing, and setting up Windows 10. Given the choice on a new PC I would opt for Windows 10 pre-installed and ready to go, even if that Windows 10 PC were to cost ever so slightly more.

I think Windows 10 adoption for corporate use will take a while longer as IT departments will first want to test compatibility with a multitude of applications including several that are home grown. We received company wide email (100,000 plus employees) telling us not to upgrade to 10. For one thing, it wouldn't be a legal upgrade as we have some corporate licensing agreement with MS, and it wouldn't be supported until it was 'blessed' by our IT department. But unlike some IT departments I have to give them credit for supporting several employee operating system and smartphone choices.

My Windows 10 upgrade was for personal use. Mac OS is the main environment that I use in my daily work. And it is obviously my choice for my music server.



 

RE: The right move in IMO is ditch Windows 8.1. Jump to Windows 10, posted on August 1, 2015 at 17:07:58
Mercman
Audiophile

Posts: 6581
Location: So. CA
Joined: October 20, 2002
 I'm with you on recommending the Win 10 computer.

 

Thank you, Abe, posted on August 1, 2015 at 17:42:30
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 I'm sure you could tell from the tone of my posts this morning that a couple of answers had put me back on the fence.

This second post of yours has me convinced that the Windows 10 computer is the right choice. The clean install makes a lot of sense, rather than putting 10 on top of 8.1

One reason is that I have relatively slow DSL service. I haven't downloaded any really "huge" files in many years. But if it's anything like the dial-up days, it seemed like the slower the download, the more chance there was for errors to happen.

Thanks for taking the time to write a thoughtful, insightful reply. I've kept the box sealed, and will take the computer back to Costco first thing Monday morning.

 

Thanks for your reply, posted on August 1, 2015 at 17:45:02
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10117
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 I've decided I'm returning the unopened Win 8.1 computer and ordering one with Win 10 installed.

 

RE: Thanks for your reply, posted on August 1, 2015 at 21:18:10
Adam O
Audiophile

Posts: 188
Joined: September 26, 1999
 You're welcome. Have fun.
Fletcher-Munson curve, it's no place to play.
Adam O


 

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