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Food for Thought

96.224.88.244
Posted on June 21, 2015 at 23:03:04
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 Here is something for the Streamer crew to chew on.

From the JPlay forum...

"Hello everybody. Just recently we have compared an AURENDER W20 with an optimized dual-PC-setup and everybody agreed that the dual-PC-setup sounded much better than the W20! We have used two systems for the comparison: The fully active GRIMM LS1 playback-system and our large reference system (DEVIALET 800 / B&W 800 Diamond / PS Audio P10 / AUDIOQUEST). In fact the dual-PC-setup has beaten every other source we have compared it to (LINN DS / NAIM and of course every CD-player including PS AUDIO PWT memory player). To us this is right now the ultimate source for real audiophiles (and I am in this game already for more than 30 years). It is really astonishing....... "

P.S. If you are making sauce (gravy) try using Cento San Marzano tomatoes.

 

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    ...
Forget tinned tomatoes, got a link to what you are quoting? , posted on June 21, 2015 at 23:29:26
three_sox
 `

 

RE: Forget tinned tomatoes, got a link to what you are quoting? , posted on June 21, 2015 at 23:36:48
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 Here it is...

 

Sorry, I take that gush with a cheap grain of salt ... , posted on June 21, 2015 at 23:48:01
three_sox
 ... Reads like a commercial spiel to me.

Thanks for posting the link.

 

" dual-PC-setup " ?, posted on June 21, 2015 at 23:57:24
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004
Hi and thanks and sorry ... do you have a link to the description of this " dual-PC-setup " ? what is that ?
thanks a lot.
Kind regards,
bg

 

RE: Sorry, I take that gush with a cheap grain of salt ... , posted on June 22, 2015 at 05:05:05
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 Such a smarmy response doesn't deserve a smile. You have no basis for implying that the poster has a commercial interest in what he writes. You just want to dismiss what he says without good reason.

 

{{You have no basis for implying that the poster has a commercial interest in what he writes}}, posted on June 22, 2015 at 05:28:44
three_sox
 ... Yes I do.

I have good reason.

My response is not "smarmy" in the slightest.

Oh, I couldn't care less if you think my response deserves a smile or otherwise.

Irrespective, I place less credence on the opinion of some unknown minion on another audio site than even your opinion. Is that ok with you?

Thanks.





 

RE: {{You have no basis for implying that the poster has a commercial interest in what he writes}}, posted on June 22, 2015 at 05:31:01
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 So what is your good reason?

 

RE: " dual-PC-setup " ?, posted on June 22, 2015 at 05:50:13
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 They are saying that you should have two computers under JPlay for 'best' result. Goto their website and forum.

 

RE: " dual-PC-setup " ?, posted on June 22, 2015 at 05:53:47
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004
 Hi !
thanks for the helpful reply
i think that is too much for me.
Actually i am trying to simplify my system even if this means just a decent sound in the end.
I am trying to learn something about OSs at present to select the best one.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg

 

Yeah... rude, condescending, clueless - an encounter with this embarassment of an Australian farmer..., posted on June 22, 2015 at 08:58:15
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 7181
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 ... is guaranteed to be shocking.

The worst part of it - it doesn't get any better on subsequent encounters!

The funny part of it - does he, himself, have any idea whatsoever what he's doing here, in this forum? I mean, besides squabbling over whether a tomato belongs in a fruit salad?

One of the prime examples of stinky garbage from Outside spreading over useful forums.

 

RE: Yeah... rude, condescending, clueless - an encounter with this embarassment of an Australian farmer..., posted on June 22, 2015 at 09:34:53
dbphd
Audiophile

Posts: 1674
Location: Montecito, CA
Joined: September 6, 2006
 Don't know about dual PCs, but OP is right about San Marzano tomatoes. Don't need to be Cento brand, though.

db

 

Yet another PC setup that beats dedicated Renders?, posted on June 22, 2015 at 12:31:47
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
;-)

And while I was googling the $15,000+ top of the line Aurender W20 I discovered this little bit in a review:

"The Aurender W20 runs a custom version of Linux that supports many external USB DACs. There is no user interface to install special device drivers for USB DACs that aren't supported by Aurender's Linux such as those from M2Tech (some not all models) and Mytek."

That's what happens when the turnkey streamer 'appliance' manufacturer doesn't take into consideration all the use cases and leaves the user with no way of 'fixing' the issue. +1 for the fully user customizable PC.


 

"Heavy lifting", posted on June 22, 2015 at 15:06:26
Roseval
Audiophile

Posts: 1845
Joined: March 31, 2008
 Basically the same what the Squeezebox community did years ago.
Let the server do the decoding and send plain raw PCM to the renderer.

The Well Tempered Computer

 

I see you're eager for another holiday ... , posted on June 22, 2015 at 17:53:07
three_sox
 ...If you wish to believe the gush in the quote posted be my guest, you always were rather gullible.

Or be helpful and tell as your experience in comparing the components quoted. (not that there is much info of what is being compared other than generic guff).

Cheers.

 

Nah... I'm eager to see you post more., posted on June 22, 2015 at 18:17:24
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 7181
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 We need more of your clueless, offensive garbage - that way, more people would be aware of the cancer that permeates these forums.

 

Just a wild guess....he doesn't have any., posted on June 22, 2015 at 18:25:35
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 7181
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 Just a habitual crapping all over the place - and all over himself.

 

Here go ... , posted on June 22, 2015 at 18:44:55
three_sox
To us this is right now the ultimate source for real audiophiles (and I am in this game already for more than 30 years). It is really astonishing.......


Feel free to swallow this guff, it is about your speed.

The boards were far more civil for some months, now you're back the civility goes down hill.

Enjoy your visit while it lasts.

 

RE: "Heavy lifting", posted on June 22, 2015 at 22:55:17
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004
Hi and thanks a lot for the valuable explanation.
Actually i am trying to simplify my system.
While i imagine that best renderers, being dedicated and designed specifically for the purpose, can give the best performance, i am only looking for a "musical" esperience that makes me want to go on with listening.
Not fatiguing, relaxed but with nice detail.
I understand that is a challenge with a pc based system.
But i am also confident that it could be done.
For me the choice of OS and player SW is decisive.
Then an only decent HW could be up to the task quite easily.
Moreover i have now a nice usb to aes converter.
I am impressed how the sound does not change that much changing pc upstream the converter.
The sound is always bearable.
Even with very cheap media player.
My reference is the spdif out from a Squeezebox Touch, just to show that i have absolutely no prejudice against rendererd.
Actually the contrary.
I have another huge renderer from Shanling .. and it sounds OK.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg

 

oooooh, the JPlay forum. Bastian of variety. LOL -t, posted on June 23, 2015 at 07:34:21
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
 1

"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

Another straw man. You're just full of them lately eh?, posted on June 23, 2015 at 07:45:57
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
 The W20 is (obviously) not under discussion.

Why not bring in the DCS CD stack into the discussion or cans of tomatoes in regard to other irrelevancies, and silly analogies: since you have zero evidence. Bring up again for us, other absurd speculations: such as the high end audio companies will collude together to make sure that they get good reviews.....

Shall i research for you some classes in logic? Ad hominem is still available, - well, - not quite.

"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

A man on a mission..., posted on June 23, 2015 at 08:01:02
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
Do you follow everyone around the forum insisting that the only solution to quality audio is a streamer? Sure seems like it.





 

RE: Another straw man. You're just full of them lately eh?, posted on June 23, 2015 at 08:04:29
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
 No, but you address every post about streamers/renderers/purpose built products with same old "overpriced computer" nonsense, pointing out esoteric "flaws" in your target of the day.

WITHOUT ever have heard ANY ONE THEM.

Rinse. Repeat.

 

I am answering YOUR post. , posted on June 23, 2015 at 08:48:49
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
 You're the one posting illogical shite. You can't "let it go," - and have to constantly preach.



"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: "Heavy lifting", posted on June 23, 2015 at 09:32:45
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 "Not fatiguing, relaxed but with nice detail.
I understand that is a challenge with a pc based system.
But i am also confident that it could be done."

Really not that hard. I have been doing it for the longest time. Many others also. This is not the best place for learning though. I would suggest.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/forum/

http://jplay.eu/forum/

http://www.nexthardware.com/forum/

 

RE: I am answering YOUR post. , posted on June 23, 2015 at 09:33:34
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
 Abe's point is a good one. It rings true to me, in that I have a Mytek DAC.

All the problems of hardware/software compatibility that arise and complicate operating systems and cause support costs, overhead, and general cussedness do not magically go away when they are put into a package and called an "appliance". The resulting box is a computer and it has all of the negative aspects of computers.

One could probably find a way to add device support for some of the DACs by hacking the operating system. However, anyone with the ability to do this would be much better served building his own customized "computer", rather than pay a large markup over the base hardware for system integration that doesn't integrate his system. In the case of the Mytek, I did not try to see if I could get it to work on the USB of my Raspberry Pi. Among other reasons, the Pi used an ARM processor and the Linux binary driver was for Intel architecture only. The source code was proprietary to Mytek's vendor and thus it was a no-go. Depending on the processor in the Aurender this might or might not be an issue.

Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

RE: I am answering YOUR post. , posted on June 23, 2015 at 10:30:16
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
 ""The resulting box is a computer and it has all of the negative aspects of computers.""

Actually not. It doesn't have noisy power supplies, inconsistent USB bus outputs, noisy chip fans, PCI bus, video noise, CD drives...

The W20 is a file server with a hard drive.

The has a FPGA DAC, correct? Would anyone would use it with a MyTek level DAC?

Their posts are about making negative judgments solely on the basis of price: without having any corroborative experiences, with commensurate devices.


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: I am answering YOUR post. , posted on June 23, 2015 at 12:09:39
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 "Actually not. It doesn't have noisy power supplies, inconsistent USB bus outputs, noisy chip fans, PCI bus, video noise, CD drives..."

Same broken record BS... or in you case CD.. Amazing..


"The W20 is a file server with a hard drive.

Would anyone would use it with a MyTek level DAC?"


Yes Tony please remove you trash DAC from the streamer conversation!!!

I guess the MyTek is only suitable for use in trailer parks!

 

RE: I am answering YOUR post. , posted on June 23, 2015 at 12:35:49
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
 ""Same broken record BS... or in you case CD.. Amazing..""

Same ignorant cowardice hiding behind self delusions....

""I guess the MyTek is only suitable for use in trailer parks!""

How would you know? You're too afraid to post your system, or relate any experiences, (yet make wild claims), - in your zeal to close off that mind....

"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: I am answering YOUR post. , posted on June 23, 2015 at 12:40:55
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
Why are you so defensive about your precious streamers? There are several great solutions available and streamers are just one choice. A choice that is not well suited for all users.

Is that too hard to understand?

In fact, I would bet that there are more general purpose PC/Mac users here than those who use streamers.





 

RE: I am answering YOUR post. , posted on June 23, 2015 at 12:43:32
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 I have posted what I use many times... smh...

 

Why are you so defensive about your precious computers?, posted on June 23, 2015 at 13:14:53
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
 I am not being defensive, - I have only added my corroboration to what others have said, based on my experience. You're extrapolating: why are you being so defensive about your computers??

""There are several great solutions available and streamers are just one choice. A choice that is not well suited for all users.""

Agreed, and I have stated this several times....


""In fact, I would bet that there are more general purpose PC/Mac users here than those who use streamers.""

Could be a good bet. Do you wanna take a poll? Some of these products are so new. Yet, there SEEM to be a TON of people here using Squeezebox's, SONOS, some Bluesounds.. etc.

"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: I am answering YOUR post. , posted on June 23, 2015 at 13:17:16
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
 SMH....

I wouldn't have asked if you had.... or, - if it was listed under "Inmate Systems."



"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: I am answering YOUR post. , posted on June 23, 2015 at 13:34:26
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 I did not know that was a regulation...

 

I never said it was a regulation -t, posted on June 23, 2015 at 13:45:21
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
 1

"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: I am answering YOUR post. , posted on June 23, 2015 at 13:47:46
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 I am using Bose 901s driven by a 2.5W SE 45 Amp with a Dynaco PAT4 preamp.

 

RE: Why are you so defensive about your precious computers?, posted on June 23, 2015 at 15:34:05
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
Could be a good bet. Do you wanna take a poll? Some of these products are so new. Yet, there SEEM to be a TON of people here using Squeezebox's, SONOS, some Bluesounds.. etc.

I really don't care if inmates use streamers, CD players, PCs, or Macs, but if it matters to YOU then go right ahead and take a poll.




 

Either speculation is as good as the other.... , posted on June 23, 2015 at 16:39:03
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
 So why bring it up?

"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: "Heavy lifting", posted on June 24, 2015 at 04:30:48
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004
Hi and thanks for the link !
I should have that budget is not sky high ,,,
actually i wonder what is the price of admission to get good sound.
Just to understand if i have to stop dreaming ...
The objective is a good AES digital signal out of a pc.
I am firm on AES ...
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg

 

This is twice now since you've been back. If your tone doesn't change, you're gone for good the third time..., posted on June 24, 2015 at 11:55:58
Chris Garrett
Bored Member

Posts: 16673
Location: Miami, Florida
Joined: October 9, 1999
Contributor
  Since: June 19, 2000
 it WAS smooth sailing with you gone and you're back three weeks and twice I had to deal with your crappy attitude.

What mental defect do you possess?

There won't be a warning any longer, as you're gone the next time.

Never let it be said that I didn't give you enough rope to hang yourself.

Chris



 

RE: Either speculation is as good as the other.... , posted on June 25, 2015 at 03:33:34
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 Only those who have nothing better start polls.

They don't seem very useful in recent elections.

 

RE: I am answering YOUR post. , posted on July 1, 2015 at 12:36:43
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 ...

 

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