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SONOS CONNECT is in the house...

76.220.25.80

Posted on May 26, 2015 at 07:22:35
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
and is streaming Lossless FLAC to my main system via its dedicated 'mesh' network using the SONOS Bridge.

Not that I understand exactly how THAT works.

Rat Shack optical cable to the Marantz NA-7004 plus RCA out to the same preamp as the NA-7004.

Streaming decent stuff (Classical, in my case), it seems to work well.

Ssdly, not that much difference switching from optical/NA-7004 to RCA out using its internal DAC, which may mean that the DAC in the NA-7004 is less than outstanding or that the Wyred4Sound mods would change that?

Who knows?

We'll soon find out, as it's going to cook here for a week just to make sure everything works well, no drop outs or gapless playback issues with the streaming services I use, then off to Wyred4sound for the $550 upgrade.

Anyone suggest a decent 1 meter 75 Ohm RCA digital cable in the $25-$50 range?

Wyred4sound recommends the Kimber Kable for about $70 and I certainly don't mind giving Ray my money as he's a great guy who has given back to the audiophile community as few manufacturers.








First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

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RE: SONOS CONNECT is in the house..., posted on May 26, 2015 at 07:27:44
double28
Audiophile

Posts: 3221
Location: Greensboro, NC
Joined: February 20, 2008
Great to hear. I bought the Connect and Bridge based on Bullethead's comments and have been very pleased. I can now use my iPad as a true controller which has always been my goal. I am interested in your thoughts on the Wyred4Sound upgrade. If you think it is worth the $550 I may just take a leap.

Will

 

What are you using as an external DAC?, posted on May 26, 2015 at 08:56:31
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
or are you just using the analog RCA outputs?

Not sure whether the Wyred4Sound mods do anything to improve the analog RCA outputs. OTOH, I also do not know if the internal DAC used to produce the analog output signals is modified or whether the mods improve the input to that internal DAC.

I will be talking to the folks at Wyred4Sound and trying to understand all of this before I send mine away for the upgrade and will post again if and when I learn more.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: What are you using as an external DAC?, posted on May 26, 2015 at 09:05:48
double28
Audiophile

Posts: 3221
Location: Greensboro, NC
Joined: February 20, 2008
I just did a major overhaul... I am using the iFi iDSD along with their iPower, iPurifier, and the Gemini USB cable. This replaces a Don Allen tube preamp I had built and a boutique redbook DAC the name of which escapes me...

Will

 

RE: What are you using as an external DAC?, posted on May 26, 2015 at 09:06:51
double28
Audiophile

Posts: 3221
Location: Greensboro, NC
Joined: February 20, 2008
I am using the coax connection.

Will

 

RE: SONOS CONNECT is in the house..., posted on May 26, 2015 at 19:08:36
I found the Sonos Connect in general to be a great piece of hardware and software solution. I still have the first Sonos Connect that I bought which I didn't upgrade collecting dust. I might send it in for an upgrade down the line, although it would be in my 2nd system and I don't think the Yaqin K9 that I am using as a DAC in that system would be enough of a DAC to hear a difference. The wyred 4 sound modified Sonos connect I have in my main system, it has been more than a week or three or so and I am enjoying myself :)

I am using a budget Audioquest cable for Optical, for SPDIF 75 Ohm I am using a Audioquest VDM-5 silver cable.

Good to hear you got it an you like it and it seems to be working properly. As for your need of an upgrade, I think you might eventually need a better DAC. As well as a hardwired connection. Just in my humble opinion your results may vary. I had the stock Sonos for over a year, I like it, the modified one, even better. Night and day difference for me.

 

RE: SONOS CONNECT is in the house..., posted on May 27, 2015 at 05:41:51
msa
Audiophile

Posts: 677
Location: Northeast
Joined: November 1, 2002
Have you compared an upgraded Sonos Connect to a standard Connect going through a first-class DAC? My understanding of the upgrade is that it improves the stock Sonos DAC (a poor one) in the connect. My experience with a Schiit DAC and a Peachtree DAC driven by the optical Sonos output is outstanding. Hard to imagine that upgrading the Connect and using a first-class DAC would be much better.

 

RE: "Have you compared an upgraded Sonos Connect to a standard Connect going through a first-class DAC?"..., posted on May 27, 2015 at 07:28:01
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
Inmate 'Bullethead' has.

To be clear, the Wyred4Sound upgrade is not an upgrade to the internal DAC but to the circuitry leading up to it.

From the Wyred4Sound web site: "This upgrade entirely replaces the mediocre Cirrius Logic CODAC and the associated high jitter clocks. The mod was designed to integrate the SONOS system into a high end audio system through an outboard Digital to Analog Converter. This new custom board is installed in the SONOS and directly converts the I²S into up-sampled SPDIF."

That said, I may have to upgrade the DAC in my system as the one incorporated in the Marantz NA-7004 is mid-level at best. Not bad, better than many CD players but not what one would expect at the $1000+ level.

AS such, I do hear an improvement switching back and forth from analog RCA outputs on the Connect to the external DAC in the NA-7004. Just not night and day.

Link below:




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

ivan, posted on May 27, 2015 at 07:38:07
I emailed you some tips for getting great sound from the Connect from the inmate email form here.

hope you have a nice week :)

I agree about the DAC, the Marantz might just be a step under par, especially for what would be close to a $1,000 transport in the end :)

enjoy your streaming FLAC. What service are you using? I am using Deezer Elite (FLAC) as well as Google Music unlimited (320kbps mp3).

 

Done..., posted on May 27, 2015 at 09:40:53
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
Streaming LOSSLESS FLAC with TIDAL and QOBUZ.

Want to make sure I have no 'gapless' or drop-out issues before I invest big bucks in upgrades/mods.

Also hoping to pick up a really good few year old DAC with 96k SPDIF inputs on the cheap now that everyone wants DSD and USB.

NOT looking for tipped up 'digital' sound, more vinyl-like the better for me.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: ivan, posted on May 28, 2015 at 06:43:05
msa
Audiophile

Posts: 677
Location: Northeast
Joined: November 1, 2002
I stream from my own music library (flac), Songza and a couple of radio stations at 320kbps. I've been using the Connect and bridge since they first came out.

 

RE: ivan, posted on May 28, 2015 at 06:50:19
msa
Audiophile

Posts: 677
Location: Northeast
Joined: November 1, 2002
I missed the email. Use my personal email: mamstey at gmail dot com.

 

RE: ivan, posted on May 28, 2015 at 06:59:27
to consult for everyone I charge $15,000 an hour ;)

Basically what I told Ivan303 was this

In settings when using a DAC set output level to "fixed" then also in settings somewhere set the quality to "uncompressed", those two settings clean up the sound substantially. Also if you use a wired connection it turns the wireless off, I gather less noise.

 

That said, I'm pretty much stuck with wireless..., posted on May 28, 2015 at 08:24:13
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
which is why I went with the SONOS rather than AirPlay using the Ethernet-only Marantz NA-7004 for streaming to my main system.

I did chat with the folks at Wyred4Sound again yesterday but they were only willing to let me talk to someone who is CLEARLY not a technical person and who just echoed the web site when asked technical questions. :-(

The person had no idea why they have comments on lower signal strength using the SONOS.net wireless network. Not a choice for me, but as all SONOS components act as transmitters and I have a line of sight from a SONOS speaker in the kitchen and the loft above where our main system resides, I should be fine.

One question I would like to pose to whoever designed the mod involves selection of 96kHz as the fixed up-sampled output as preferred sampling rate for a device designed to process only CD quality output. 88.2kHz seems a more logical choice IF one us using only one clock but who knows what's going on inside?

Again, I know NOTHING about how SONOS processes data to send it to the CONNECT. I do recall someone stating that AirPlay is up-samples CD's to 45kHz before sending it out onto your network to an AirPlay enabled device.

Would REALLY like a few moments on someone's time at Wyred4Sound before making any irreversible decisions.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

You could just get a reclocker, posted on May 28, 2015 at 08:38:31
yep, I would just get a reclocker. Don't mess with something that might be risky, a reclocker would reduce the jitter which essentially is what the upgrade does. Wyred 4 sound makes a reclocker for $400 or so I think. Again if you are not going to upgrade your DAC just enjoy what you got for awhile and see how it goes. It is a nice system.

 

IF I could convince them to sell me a 'blem' re-clocker..., posted on June 1, 2015 at 12:49:46
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
with the option to upgrade to the full $550 mod if there was appreciable difference in my system with my 'mid-fi' DAC, I'd go for it.

I'll call and ask.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

As long as your coax cable is...., posted on June 2, 2015 at 10:31:33
rlw
Audiophile

Posts: 3347
Location: Near West Palm Bch, FL
Joined: August 29, 2006
Well-constructed using quality materials and measures properly at 75 ohm, you should be good to go. There are a TON of folks making 75 ohm coax cables, you can certainly get a good quality cable for your price range. Kimber would be great, as would Blue Jeans Cable, MonoPrice Premium cables are nice and *very* nicely priced:

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10236&cs_id=1023603&p_id=2680&seq=1&format=2

Google a round a bit, but don't stress too much over it, there are many fine cables in your price range...
-RW-

 

I sent my Sonos Connect in to Wyred 4 Sound last week.., posted on June 3, 2015 at 21:38:22
In fact, they should have received it either yesterday or today. As soon as I get it back I'm going to take it in to my dealer who has the standard one in his system. He wanted to hear the upgraded one and I wanted to hear the difference in the units side by side. I bought a Grace design M-920 that he wants to hear also so I'll take that along. I was quite pleased with the Sonos before sending it in so I hope I didn't waste my money. I don't think I'll be disappointed.

 

Are you using with an external DAC?, posted on June 5, 2015 at 19:41:47
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
and if so which one? That should make all of the difference in the world.

If you take it to a dealer see if you can hook both Connects up to his very best/most expensive DAC to compare the differences.

Of course there will be NO DIFFERENCE in the RCA analog output after the mods as they do not touch that signal path including the internal DAC.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

I was talking to the dealer yesterday..., posted on June 6, 2015 at 07:16:01
and he's good at trying to keep all things equal when doing comparisons. I've got a Grace Design M920 dac/preamp that I was planning on taking along to use while comparing the two. It has AES, S/PDIF, and Toslink inputs. He's got a very nice Mark Levinson room that he just finished too so that might be more telling if we go in there. Wyred4sound shipped my Sonos back yesterday. I was talking to one of their tech guys yesterday and he said "just give it 50 hours or so before doing a comparison and I think you'll find it interesting."

 

It will probably be a week or two before I have 50..., posted on June 6, 2015 at 11:21:57
hours on the upgraded connect and go back to the dealer to listen to both units. After I do, I'll post our opinions on the differences. I ordered an Oppo 105d from him yesterday also. I've thought about that one for a long time and what the heck. I'm sure glad John Marks posted some comments about Grace Design a while back. Thank You John. Finding a really good dac without breaking the bank was getting to be a tall order.

 

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