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Finally, the beginning of the end for computers as transports...

209.95.36.61

Posted on March 16, 2015 at 15:43:29
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
The new Apple Mac Book has one, port, yes ONE "USB C" port. To connect more than one device, and external $80 accessory is required.

'Bout time.

Can't wait for the fan boys to justify and deflect.

Apple has waging a war against audiophiles since day one and the war may be coming to a close.

 

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RE: Finally, the beginning of the end for computers as transports..., posted on March 16, 2015 at 16:20:49
Looks like they are pushing/forcing their Cloud $ervice$ like many of the non-expandable tablets do.

 

RE: Finally, the beginning of the end for computers as transports..., posted on March 16, 2015 at 16:23:36
lokie
Audiophile

Posts: 1986
Location: Georgia, USA
Joined: January 28, 2003
As a long time MAC user, I couldn't agree more. And hardware isn't my biggest complaint, it's Itunes! What once was a joy to use is now an ongoing annoyance. I am convinced Apple does not want you to have your own library. I am finally getting the message.

Glad I didn't spend a bunch of money upgrading endless tweaks for marginal (if any) improvements. Over all I have no regrets. In audiophile terms, the Mac Mini was the deal of the century. It was a great ride... Just ready to move on. And with the NAS renderers, there is finally a better solution.

 

But then there's AirPlay..., posted on March 16, 2015 at 18:43:54
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
Plus the 'dongle' would allow streaming to a USB/DAC. Think it likely that Apple, and to a lesser extent Microsoft, expect most users to be attaching their computers to peripheral devices via Bluetooth and WiFi networks, both at work and at home.

Besides, most audiophiles will eventually end up using their laptop (or tablet or phone) as little more than a control for a network streamer of some kind anyway, as soon as pricing for these devices bottom out. I don't think the recent popularity of the late lamented Logitech Squeezebox technology was some kind of a fluke.

Speaking only for myself, I would more likely upgrade from my current MacBook Air to the 13in Retina MacBook Pro.

Currently streaming TIDAL to my main system to a Marantz NA-7004 using AirPlay. The new Apple MacBook wouldn't change that at all that I can see.





First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: Finally, the beginning of the end for computers as transports..., posted on March 16, 2015 at 18:47:07
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
..yes, and increasingly going proprietary, and little by little continuing to offer less for more.

 

RE: Finally, the beginning of the end for computers as transports..., posted on March 16, 2015 at 18:51:25
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
I think you pretty much nailed it.

 

The new Apple MacBook is available with up to 512GB of PCIe-based flash storage..., posted on March 16, 2015 at 18:57:55
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
That's twice what was available on the MacBook Air when I bought mine a few years ago.

Plus most folks have a home network that can accommodate larger storage drives if they so choose.

I have no intention of ever putting anything of substance of mine in the cloud. That said, I'm not above streaming music FROM the cloud, via Spotify, QOBUZ and/or TIDAL.



First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

Agree completely, but then I never used iTunes..., posted on March 16, 2015 at 19:03:43
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
never owned a Walkman or an iPod and have ZERO music stored on of my iPhone.

And no, I don't listen to 'car audio' either, two words which should never be used in the same sentence.

And yes, network streamers/renderers are likely the future.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

+1..., posted on March 16, 2015 at 19:11:19
RC Daniel
Audiophile

Posts: 1922
Location: Brisbane
Joined: November 3, 2002
Similar experience to you, but the both the hardware and applications have been a PITA... with average sound quality to boot. The HD just died for the second time, so I am replacing the Mini with a NAS and Aurender N100. Hopefully this will be a robust, easy-to-use, good sounding source; not cheap though.

Cheers.

"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few." Shunryo Suzuki

 

To be replaced by next generation...., posted on March 16, 2015 at 19:34:37
Ugly
Audiophile

Posts: 2912
Location: Des Moines, WA
Joined: August 22, 2006
computers. Us old timers will always have our private collections to access and wont likely ever completely trust clouds and what have you. It's possible, just doesn't seem likely to me is all.

 

RE: To be replaced by next generation...., posted on March 16, 2015 at 22:34:42
Cloud $ervice$ are as secure as their most disgruntled employee.

 

RE: To be replaced by next generation...., posted on March 17, 2015 at 01:22:35
RC Daniel
Audiophile

Posts: 1922
Location: Brisbane
Joined: November 3, 2002
Yep. Instead, I will just use my new NAS as my personal cloud, accessible from anywhere I can get an internet connection.

Cheers.

"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few." Shunryo Suzuki

 

RE: Finally, the beginning of the end for computers as transports..., posted on March 17, 2015 at 03:55:27
mhardyman
Audiophile

Posts: 274
Location: Somewhere in Vermont
Joined: December 14, 2010
You still have the Toslink IN and OUT buried in the audio plugs.

 

Fix, posted on March 17, 2015 at 05:45:49
LWR
Audiophile

Posts: 66808
Location: The woods
Joined: August 12, 2003
@

 

RE: Finally, the beginning of the end for computers as transports..., posted on March 17, 2015 at 07:31:35
This has been a long term trend for Apple. They were the first to remove floppy drives and everyone was saying, "oh my gosh, no floppy!" Then they removed optical drives and everyone was saying, "oh my gosh, no disc reader!"

I'm not necessarily defending this particular product, and it's not designed to meet everyone's needs, but the trend for average users is everything wireless. Apple is simply a few years ahead of the curve.

 

"Apple does not want you to have your own library", posted on March 17, 2015 at 09:19:29
Jon L
Audiophile

Posts: 6057
Joined: April 6, 2000
I cannot stand iTunes, either. I even got rid of iPhone 6 Plus after confirming itunes' goal is to take over both my phone and computer..

 

RE: Fix, posted on March 17, 2015 at 09:20:34
Mike B.
Audiophile

Posts: 26322
Location: OR
Joined: September 27, 1999
Contributor
  Since:
September 1, 1999
Have you had success with one? I have a different brand for my desktop. It worked for a added hard drive but not the printer and speakers. I got the impression it greatly reduced effectiveness.


 

RE: To be replaced by next generation...., posted on March 17, 2015 at 09:59:18
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
"I will just use my new NAS as my personal cloud, accessible from anywhere I can get an internet connection."

It may be a bad idea to make one's personal NAS accessible anywhere via the Internet. If you can get at your personal NAS from anywhere with an internet connection then there is the possibility that others can do the same thing. This is not something one should do unless one understands a fair bit about computer and network security and the risks involved. Speaking personally as one with some knowledge of these subjects, I would not do this unless I had a significant reason to do so, in which case I would take the trouble to provide and maintain appropriate fortifications.



Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

How can you fit an EH6922 in it?, posted on March 17, 2015 at 10:23:34
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
It's no longer giving people who are interested in superior playback the option of building their own transport: which is awesome.

High end audio, and superior playback, is contingent on the quality of the HARDWARE. As we've seen with these horrible, multi-function, noiseboxes: they cannot be great transports until you turn them into some thing that they are not.
Even the computer industry is turning computers into phones, and turning multi-function devices into more limited devices, (internet enabled), at ever cheaper prices.

A multi-function computer is not only untenable as a superior audio playback device, - it's also untenable as a gaming device, or as TV, or as a network configuration tool.

For Apple to eliminate almost all ports, & peripherals, (in an effort to make their computer, not a computer), they are turning their laptops into IPADs with keyboards, yet they don't offer a touchscreen.

As you say, - it's totally obvious, and in turn, awesome that these things SUCK as digital file playback transports, and there's no cogent argument for their continued use as such.

Finally, the Squeezebox system demonstrates the other side of this, that tweaking a Squeezebox, adding a power supply, etc. gets you close to having something that is almost as good as a multi-function computer, and is only lacking in a few bits of hardware improvements. It's surprising that there aren't more Aries, Minds, & Bryston BHs out there....


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

Only ONE "USB C" port? God help us!!! [nt], posted on March 17, 2015 at 10:50:19
Posts: 26347
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since:
February 6, 2012

 

This video is so MIGHTY, posted on March 17, 2015 at 10:57:32
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
s


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

Mighty indeed - love it! [nt] ;-), posted on March 17, 2015 at 11:14:40
Posts: 26347
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since:
February 6, 2012

 

RE: Finally, the beginning of the end for computers as transports..., posted on March 17, 2015 at 11:36:06
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
I am one of those that STILL wants ports and optical drives on my computer, especially a laptop.

I think the big move to wireless is over hyped...Most people still connect to peripherals like printers with cables.

Apple is plowing forward with slimmed down machines in their mindless form over function agenda IMO, and it really does not give a damn what customers think.

Apple customers have been conditioned to sit and take it with a smile for a decade.

 

Same old message, posted on March 17, 2015 at 11:48:20
Old Listener
Audiophile

Posts: 2090
Location: SF Bay area
Joined: February 6, 2005

"Finally, the beginning of the end for computers as transports..."

We're all doomed! Or not.

Plenty of interesting small format computers appearing.




my blog: http://carsmusicandnature.blogspot.com/

 

RE: How can you fit an EH6922 in it?, posted on March 17, 2015 at 11:49:11
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
I don't think it is possible to paint a more accurate picture than you just did.

I will add that you check out the various CES reports...lots of companies getting on board with purpose built products to compete with Auralic, Bryston, etc.

Actually a quick survey shows me there are hundreds of streamers on the market to choose from, even from conglomerates like Cambridge Audio, Marantz, Denon, and others are pouring all their resources into it.





 

What's Jony Ivy's least favorite wine?, posted on March 17, 2015 at 12:52:25
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
Port!




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

FIne advice Tony - noted! (nt), posted on March 17, 2015 at 13:21:07
RC Daniel
Audiophile

Posts: 1922
Location: Brisbane
Joined: November 3, 2002
.
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few." Shunryo Suzuki

 

Thanks: Streamers only, with no DACs? etc?, posted on March 17, 2015 at 13:27:52
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
That is really great news.........

Cheers,




"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: Finally, the beginning of the end for computers as transports..., posted on March 17, 2015 at 13:45:09
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
I am not a big fan of what is going on either but I think you might not really be in touch with what current computer uses do or need. I can just speak from personal family and friends experience, I cannot tell you the last time somebody actually plugged something into a port, or God forbid use an optical drive. Most people nowadays use their system and often never do these things. Most of the lighter and thinner laptops do not even have optical drives, manufacturers do not ship discs, the and restore partitions are on the hard drive.

This is not the way I use my computers, and I guess you don't either, but this is what the current state of affairs is. That is why they are going in that direction, they are not as stupid as you think. They are catering to the majority we are sadly the minority. At least we are still allowed to vote and walk over bridges.

 

He presented clear evidence why Mac laptops are, posted on March 17, 2015 at 14:17:09
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
no longer usable as digital file transports.

To that, the Lenovo Yoga series, (very popular), and now Dell XPS series of commercial laptops also....

I have seen Dell desktop units that also do not have Ethernet ports any longer....




"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: He presented clear evidence why Mac laptops are, posted on March 17, 2015 at 14:43:19
Old Listener
Audiophile

Posts: 2090
Location: SF Bay area
Joined: February 6, 2005
I expect that Apple laptops will continue to be used as computer audio transports in far greater numbers than the packaged transports that you and Sprezza Tura favor.

There are many. many choices for non-Apple hardware. If some don't meet your needs, you still have many other choices.

I mentioned small format systems. There are x86 based Intel NUCs and similar systems - some fanless, some not. There are many Arm based systems and s/w support is getting better. Choice is getting wider rather than more limited.


my blog: http://carsmusicandnature.blogspot.com/

 

RE: Finally, the beginning of the end for computers as transports..., posted on March 17, 2015 at 14:56:14
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
I don't disagree with your post. I never claimed to have a crystal ball.

Speaking for my self, my immediate family and colleagues, i still require an optical drive, an ethernet port and at least 2 USB ports.

Apple has, however, forced people in certain direction under the guise being some all knowing power that tells its customers what they want, instead of the other way around.

 

RE: Thanks: Streamers only, with no DACs? etc?, posted on March 17, 2015 at 15:00:15
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
In truth, most of the streamers at the lower price points have onboard DACs, most of these manufacturers still see an obstacle in offering a DACless products in the marketplace and I applaud Simaudio, Auralic, and Bryston for not including a DAC on board. The one's with DACs, however, virtually all have digital outputs.

I still think the SOtM mini streamer at $499 is the best darn value in digital audio...passed through every known resolution quad DSD. Only limitation is USB only output.

 

RE: This video is so MIGHTY, posted on March 17, 2015 at 16:00:34
Cameraman
Audiophile

Posts: 396
Location: 33701
Joined: September 25, 2011
what a piss Man are you gonna get flamed
Thanx

 

LOL! - Very good! [nt], posted on March 17, 2015 at 16:02:36
Posts: 26347
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since:
February 6, 2012

 

RE: Finally, the beginning of the end for computers as transports..., posted on March 17, 2015 at 16:04:57
"Apple has, however, forced people in certain direction under the guise being some all knowing power that tells its customers what they want, instead of the other way around."

You have correctly assessed Apple's vision. Apple does not do market surveys and then produces what people want. If you ask people what they want, they'll answer by asking for the same thing, just better. In contrast to that, Apple looks for the next curve in the road and produces what people have not thought of yet. There's a long list of new things that Apple computers/software were designed to do that the average computer user could not previously do easily, from creating and laser printing newsletters, to creating music playlists and syncing them to a mobile player, to editing movies and creating picture slide shows, to creating an app ecosystem.

What you have incorrectly assessed is that Apple is forcing people in a certain direction. Apple is not forcing anyone to purchase their products. Apple is simply building exciting products that average computer users want to buy.

 

RE: Finally, the beginning of the end for computers as transports..., posted on March 17, 2015 at 16:10:00
skolis
Audiophile

Posts: 48
Joined: September 14, 2014
"Apple has, however, forced people in certain direction under the guise being some all knowing power that tells its customers what they want, instead of the other way around. "

You betcha!!!

check it out:::

The New Yorker
Profiles February 23, 2015 Issue
The Shape of Things to Come
How an industrial designer became Apple's greatest product.
By Ian Parker


http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/23/shape-things-come

 

Not likely...., posted on March 17, 2015 at 16:49:22
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
Just about every Apple Fan Boy Blogger on the net, from Jon Gruber to Jim Dalrymple, has linked to it by now!

It's FUNNY!





First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

Embarrassing but true..., posted on March 17, 2015 at 17:37:56
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
In a thread here that was transferred from another board, I was forced to admit that we don't have the ability to burn a CD anymore since our old tower PC died.

What I thought was a USB CD read/write drive turns out to be only read!

We have used it so infrequently we have no idea what it actually is.

With two laptops, two iPhones and two iPads, a network multifunction printer, plus a SONOS and a Marantz NS-7004 on the home network, we're covered.

Should of bought a Sqeezebox Touch (or two) while they were still available. I'd be set.






First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: He presented clear evidence why Mac laptops are, posted on March 17, 2015 at 18:02:56
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
"I expect that Apple laptops will continue to be used as computer audio transports in far greater numbers than the packaged transports that you and Sprezza Tura favor.""

If they are the new Air and MACBOOKs it will simply not be possible: or at least not be possible unless the music files are stored on the laptop.

(no RJ45 connector, and only 1 USB port will PREVENT it).






"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: Finally, the beginning of the end for computers as transports..., posted on March 17, 2015 at 18:33:53
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
Thanks for the link. Quite an in depth article.

 

RE: Finally, the beginning of the end for computers as transports..., posted on March 17, 2015 at 18:38:03
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
Your post has contradictory statements.

"You have correctly assessed Apple's vision.."

and

"What you have incorrectly assessed is that Apple is forcing people in a certain direction"

Which is it? I state their vision WAS as that they were forcing their vision on users, regardless if of the fact it serves Apple's purposes rather than it its customer base.

 

+1 -t, posted on March 17, 2015 at 19:50:50
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
.


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: He presented clear evidence why Mac laptops are, posted on March 17, 2015 at 20:09:07
Ugly
Audiophile

Posts: 2912
Location: Des Moines, WA
Joined: August 22, 2006
"If they are the new Air and MACBOOKs it will simply not be possible: or at least not be possible unless the music files are stored on the laptop."

Because the new device accesses memory slightly differently means it's not a computer anymore??

 

?????, posted on March 17, 2015 at 20:45:55
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
Who said anything about whether or not it's a computer?

My post was quite clear: it's a matter of a lack of ports.

Cheers


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: He presented clear evidence why Mac laptops are, posted on March 17, 2015 at 21:15:54
Old Listener
Audiophile

Posts: 2090
Location: SF Bay area
Joined: February 6, 2005
"If they are the new Air and MACBOOKs it will simply not be possible: or at least not be possible unless the music files are stored on the laptop.

(no RJ45 connector, and only 1 USB port will PREVENT it)."

It won't prevent using the Air to play audio using

- WiFi for connection to a networked hard drive

- USB hub if you need to connect more than one USB device.

That might not appeal to a few hard core audiophiles but it might be used by far more people.


my blog: http://carsmusicandnature.blogspot.com/

 

People using Mac laptops as transports are using the MacBook *PRO*, posted on March 18, 2015 at 04:47:57
The new machine in question is going to eventually replace the MacBook Air, not the MacBook Pro.

The single port is stupid and deserves to be lampooned. But this machine has zero relevance to computer audio.

This is Apple's answer to the Surface Pro.

 

I use it to plug in a thumb drive, posted on March 18, 2015 at 05:26:52
LWR
Audiophile

Posts: 66808
Location: The woods
Joined: August 12, 2003
to update the system Mini and for the Logitech Mouse receiver. I also have the HD connected to it. No problems whatsoever with it. What I like is that with it's short little connecting cable the hub is off to the side and more in front and so it is easier to connect to it rather than moving the Mini to get access.. I also like the green LED that tells me it turned on and is operating.

 

I have a Touch for sale, posted on March 18, 2015 at 05:31:17
LWR
Audiophile

Posts: 66808
Location: The woods
Joined: August 12, 2003
listed in the AA store a few days ago.

 

RE: ?????, posted on March 18, 2015 at 06:20:12
Ugly
Audiophile

Posts: 2912
Location: Des Moines, WA
Joined: August 22, 2006
"My post was quite clear: it's a matter of a lack of ports."

OK, since that is such an important distinction, I'll humor you. It actually does have perfectly viable means of acting as a transport just not one you apparently acknowledge. I'm going with this being a misunderstanding on your part.

 

Meanwhile in Bose-land......., posted on March 18, 2015 at 07:32:04
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
Yes, pick the fleas, = you are correct. People will still Airplay MP3 to junk.

Did the OP really have to qualify his post with the words "higher performing digital file playback?"

The fact that he/we use the term "transport" would nominally cause it to be a "given" in most of our minds, no?

Is there a cheaper, less complicated, process, (outside SQ), running airplay than using another NAS/USB, Ethernet-link setup? Or, Squeezebox or Sonos?


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

distinction?, posted on March 18, 2015 at 07:42:58
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
Sorry....

I guess that I don't understand: perhaps you'll explain?

""acting as a transport just not one that you apparently acknowledge"

ITunes Airplay to a DAC with a wireless bridge device? (Acknowledge?, or recognize as "viable" high performance)?

In your experience, have you ever encountered a wireless setup that has equaled the performance of a wired: given our level of most higher performing systems?



"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

i responded -t, posted on March 18, 2015 at 10:00:24
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
.


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: Finally, the beginning of the end for computers as transports..., posted on March 18, 2015 at 10:01:38
audioengr
Manufacturer

Posts: 6017
Location: Oregon
Joined: April 12, 2001
One port is better than zero ports, and besides Ethernet is the next interface. There is no particular advantage for sound quality to either. They are essentially equal. The real advantage to Ethernet is the avoidance of the audio stack on the driving device, whether it is a computer or smart phone.

 

Hmmm, posted on March 18, 2015 at 12:22:35
LWR
Audiophile

Posts: 66808
Location: The woods
Joined: August 12, 2003
Aren't I supposed to get an email notification? I never have used that to sell before but I would think I would have been alerted somehow....you may email me.

 

I think that things are a bit different than you describe, posted on March 18, 2015 at 12:35:46
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
""Apple is simply building exciting products that average computer users want to buy.""

It's more like, - Apple is marketing products that it thinks might be cool, and convincing consumers to buy something that is GOOD for Apple. Part of this, (looking at it positively for Apple), is that they did have some creative & stylish products that they're "resting" on & refining: like their IPHONE. These products drive the sale of other products that are not so innovative, or of (high)value to consumers. (Like their desktop, & laptop computers), - which have both good & bad elements: with high levels of hype & hyperbole.

And, finally, if we go on the basis of creativity: many ideas attributed to Apple's invention, - like the mouse, - were something that Apple unfairly exploited, and shouldn't be attributable to them.

Cheers,



"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: I think that things are a bit different than you describe, posted on March 18, 2015 at 13:30:13
"And, finally, if we go on the basis of creativity: many ideas attributed to Apple's invention, - like the mouse, - were something that Apple unfairly exploited, and shouldn't be attributable to them."

Apple bought the IP rights for the mouse, and other things, from Xerox because Xerox didn't know what to do with it, or at least didn't have the ambition to turn it into a consumer product.

 

RE: I think that things are a bit different than you describe, posted on March 18, 2015 at 13:50:50
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
"Apple bought the IP rights for the mouse, and other things, from Xerox because Xerox didn't know what to do with it, or at least didn't have the ambition to turn it into a consumer product."


Xerox did not invent the mouse.

"Douglas Engelbart at the Stanford Research Institute (now SRI International) invented his first mouse prototype in the 1960s with the assistance of his lead engineer Bill English.[10] They christened the device the mouse as early models had a cord attached to the rear part of the device looking like a tail and generally resembling the common mouse.

Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

tried again -t, posted on March 18, 2015 at 14:28:29
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
.


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

It may be broken because of the server move/update, posted on March 18, 2015 at 15:20:10
LWR
Audiophile

Posts: 66808
Location: The woods
Joined: August 12, 2003
as I said, Email me...

 

Won't work..., posted on March 18, 2015 at 16:15:44
mkuller
Audiophile

Posts: 38130
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: April 22, 2003
...the new Mac Books only have a single USB "C" port.

Any other type of USB cable will not fit.

If I'm not mistaken it is the size of the current Apple charger connector - very small.

Perhaps an adapter cable could do the connection to your suggested device.

 

The review I read..., posted on March 18, 2015 at 16:22:23
mkuller
Audiophile

Posts: 38130
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: April 22, 2003
...said the advantage of the USB "C" port and cable is that it can transfer data much faster.

Peripherals like optical drives are available.

 

Apple makes, posted on March 18, 2015 at 16:31:19
LWR
Audiophile

Posts: 66808
Location: The woods
Joined: August 12, 2003
all sorts of conversion cables. I am not familiar with USB C. My Ipad Air uses a lightning connector on the Ipad and that cable has a USB plug on the other end...

 

I tried that, (email) - and it apparently failed...., posted on March 18, 2015 at 16:33:03
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
ss


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: Meanwhile in Bose-land......., posted on March 18, 2015 at 17:02:18
Old Listener
Audiophile

Posts: 2090
Location: SF Bay area
Joined: February 6, 2005
"Yes, pick the fleas, = you are correct."

I don't understand the fleas part.

"People will still Airplay MP3 to junk."

And some will send lossless compressed or uncompressed audio to their Airplay compatible device.

"Is there a cheaper, less complicated, process, (outside SQ), running airplay than using another NAS/USB, Ethernet-link setup? Or, Squeezebox or Sonos? "

I didn't understand that either. I don't think that setting up an Apple laptop, router and Airplay device has to be complicated. For some people, wireless may be simpler than wired LAN connections.

An intelligent consumer learns enough about his needs and available alternatives and then makes choices that are right for him. For some people, an ultralight laptop might be a good choice. For others, it might be a non-starter.

My dedicated MusicPC is a desktop unit with a local hard drive that stores my music collection. I accomplish multi-room playback from that PC with simple mechanisms. I have a wired LAN and WiFi which I can use to control music playback. I chose not to use a NAS box.

Apple may not have a reasonably priced unit that fits my preferences in the future. That's OK. They will have plenty of other customers and I have plenty of other alternatives.
my blog: http://carsmusicandnature.blogspot.com/

 

RE: I think that things are a bit different than you describe, posted on March 18, 2015 at 17:18:51
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
"It's more like, - Apple is marketing products that it thinks might be cool, and convincing consumers to buy something that is GOOD for Apple."

I don't think it can be stated any clearer than that....

You know, because that is EXACTLY what consumers want,they all got together and said they need a new "USB C" port and a fucking dongle hanging from their laptop.

 

RE: Finally, the beginning of the end for computers as transports..., posted on March 18, 2015 at 17:21:09
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
"One port is better than zero ports.."

Boy talk about stockholm syndrome...

Ethernet is clearly the next interface despite certain DAC manufacturers (not you) and gear heads who seem to think it is not.

But the problem is there IS no Ethernet port on this machine either.

 

RE: People using Mac laptops as transports are using the MacBook *PRO*, posted on March 18, 2015 at 17:24:40
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
It seems to me that Apple is rudderless here.

WHY introduce a "Mac Book" when it was deleted from the line up 2 years ago?

Why bring it back? Apple clearly wanted to have the Pro only to simply the line.

The Air is a completely different machine and product..so I think your guess is far off the mark.

 

RE: I tried that, (email) - and it apparently failed...., posted on March 18, 2015 at 17:35:26
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
email me too @ sprezza.tura@yahoo.com

 

RE: The review I read..., posted on March 18, 2015 at 18:05:42
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
Faster data transfer speeds are really no benefit for Computer Audio past what we have now. Just about everything is buffered into memory.

I am sure the buying public never knew they needed faster transfer speeds until Apple told them they did.

As the writer says:

"As a potential buyer, I am thinking twice about getting a device that requires me to purchase, carry around, and plug-in dongles to connect devices that I'll need almost every day. One of the reasons I bought a 13-inch MacBook Air instead of the 11-inch is because the larger one has an SD-card reader, meaning I had one less adapter to carry around and
plug-in when I want to transfer images from my camera to my laptop."

And has been noted here...form over function..and that serves Apple's bottom line just fine.

 

RE: "form over function..and that serves Apple's bottom line just fine.", posted on March 18, 2015 at 20:09:00
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
Considering the fact that Apple has also updated pretty much the whole MacBook lineup, I'd say the new Apple MacBook represents but one choice in a lineup of choices.

Not one I'd likely choose, but I don't travel for business much if at all anymore and use my 13inch MacBook Air on my lap in a chair, with it's two UB ports and an SD card slot.

Sadly, no Retina screen.

But the new 13in Retina MacBook Pro comes with the latest fifth-generation (Broadwell) Intel processor has two Thunderbolt ports, two USB3 ports, an HDMI port and an SD slot, so there's that.

Ain't like Apple is leaving us out in the cold with no ports.







First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: That's what people said when Apple introduce a computer without a floppy drive..., posted on March 18, 2015 at 20:12:10
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
and then without an optical drive.

And, and, and.

OK, it's not for me, but for some who travel a lot and do everything in the cloud, it will likely be a great machine.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: "form over function..and that serves Apple's bottom line just fine.", posted on March 18, 2015 at 21:11:07
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
When you say "the whole Mac Book line up", what does that mean? There were two laptops lines for the past two years until now, the Mac Book Pro, and the Air. The dumped the regular, non "Pro" Mach Book from the line up because nobody was buying it. And now it is back, in some fucked up configuration. Why would any one who wanted a stripped down, lighter machine buy the new "Mac Book" over the Air?

No, Apple does not leave you with no ports or options on their VERY expensive Mac Book "Pro" machines.

 

RE: Finally, the beginning of the end for computers as transports..., posted on March 19, 2015 at 03:08:50
RhythmDevil
Audiophile

Posts: 222
Joined: November 23, 2014
And there's no place for your buggy whip either!

Damn young whippersnappers! Get off my lawn!

Cerebrate!

 

RE: People using Mac laptops as transports are using the MacBook *PRO*, posted on March 19, 2015 at 04:54:04
Everyone knew in advance Apple was going to announce the new Air at this keynote. People have been asking for an Air with Retina display for a couple years and this is it. The only minor surprise is the name. The "MacBook" name was previously used for the bottom of the laptop lineup. In recent years the 11.6" Air was the bottom of the lineup, and this is its replacement. So calling it the MacBook (sans Air) is consistent with prior use of the name.

The fact that Apple released a new ultrabook with a single port really means nothing at all wrt the future of using computers are transports.

 

RE: distinction?, posted on March 19, 2015 at 06:17:22
Ugly
Audiophile

Posts: 2912
Location: Des Moines, WA
Joined: August 22, 2006
The distinction is there is a difference. You are right, you did say transport. My mistake. I was a little hasty in typing up my response since yours/the OP's argument seems so silly that I just got careless. I am just being a little smart alecky now as you still choose to belabor this point as if it were some how an important component in validating your claim and yet it still apparently seems to be heading nowhere on that front. If you are going to drop a punchline which allows this massive victory in the debate you've now achieved to somehow appear relevant to the point of the discussion then now would be the time.

"ITunes Airplay to a DAC with a wireless bridge device? (Acknowledge?, or recognize as "viable" high performance)? "

Now you'll need to explain. Who said anything about high performance?

"In your experience, have you ever encountered a wireless setup that has equaled the performance of a wired: given our level of most higher performing systems?"

Isn't the answer to that question a bit irrelevant to the point whether or not the device is or isn't a transport?

I mean, I think I see where you are headed with this. It's just that it does not appear to be a logically tenable argument.

 

RE: Finally, the beginning of the end for computers as transports..., posted on March 19, 2015 at 06:40:41
Ugly
Audiophile

Posts: 2912
Location: Des Moines, WA
Joined: August 22, 2006
"But the problem is there IS no Ethernet port on this machine either."

Huh? That is a problem for you??? I thought I was the only one left with cables attached to my PC's.

From the specs linked on the Audiostream site.

"

Wi-Fi

802.11ac Wi-Fi wireless networking;
IEEE 802.11a/b/g/n compatible
"

 

I'm currently reading..., posted on March 19, 2015 at 10:22:08
mkuller
Audiophile

Posts: 38130
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: April 22, 2003
...the Isaacson's Jobs' biography.

It's fascinating and really captures the way the Apple computers were designed from the beginning up to his death.

They were unique and broke new ground changing the way computers were made.

I respect them but have never felt the premium price was worth it for a product that will be obsolete in about 4 years.

 

RE: distinction?, posted on March 19, 2015 at 10:22:13
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
It's simple really, - you need RJ45 & at least 1 USB ports to use the machine as a viable higher performing transport such as one that an audiophile who cares about sound quality, and wants a transport that is commensurate with the rest of her/his system: context. The average cost of a retail system here is $20,000. The OP is talking about the kind of quality that surpasses something like a Sonus etc. By using Airplay, running .mp3 or Lossless, and using a wireless DAC, - you're not talking about the kind of quality that people here utilize.

Or more importantly, - the OP. Taking out the ability to run wires, - it severely reduces the performances of the system.

"" It's just that it does not appear to be a logically tenable argument.""

Look within, - you're looking at it from the perspective of a non-audiophile: which is outside of the scope of the post and these forums.

"OP's argument seems so silly that I just got careless.""

It seems silly only if the context is users who are "normal" and not audiophiles. It would be silly in the context of someplace like iLounge: but not for a place where the average system cost is $20,000. AND, not silly in the context, of most of us who have $2000 plus disc transports, $2000 + turntable transports etc....

""choose to belabor this point""

You keep on typing. I'm actually just defending the position, and the very reasonable assertion that wired device connectivity is essential to better performance, - after all the OP is addressing high performance.

""victory in the debate you've now achieved to somehow appear relevant to the point of the discussion then now would be the time.""

Your perception that I'm somehow competing is what is silly. Especially in light of the fact that you are the one who is taking the OP out of context. The ESSENCE of the issue is the context of the viability of an audiophile transport: and judging by the other poster's responses, - you're in the minority. This makes it seem like its personal, - you're not answering the other posts in this thread. I don't write or respond to posts based on whatever your philosophical idiosyncrasies might entail: surprise, - i don't even know what they are.

"Who said anything about high performance?"

Sprezza, - in everything that he wrote.

""Isn't the answer to that question a bit irrelevant to the point whether or not the device is or isn't a transport?""

The point of the definition of what it is, is irrelevant entirely. What is relevant is what he implied by using that term.




"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: Meanwhile in Bose-land......., posted on March 19, 2015 at 10:29:40
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
Yes, pick the fleas, = you are correct

"I don't understand the fleas part."

Nitpicking (Yes, Airplay works: but why would anyone do it, when they can wire up a Sonus, or buy a Tivoli internet radio).

""And some will send lossless compressed or uncompressed audio to their Airplay compatible device.""

And it will suck, in the course of the context through which the OP was made. And, hopefully, - the (higher performance consumer) will spend their money on a "cheaper" "better" solution.

"""Apple may not have a reasonably priced unit that fits my preferences in the future. That's OK. They will have plenty of other customers and I have plenty of other alternatives""

That is completely true, and more power to them. But that is outside the "scope" of the OPs comments.







"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

A company who has eschewed high performance audio, posted on March 19, 2015 at 10:43:49
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
in the past, has not suddenly come out with an IMPROVED multi-purpose computing device for high performance audio playback.

Indeed, (as you said), they've harmed it. There is no "unwired" context through which one can use a laptop wirelessly and beat any mid-level-high-end redbook CD player such as the Arcam FMJ, AA Prima, Linn, etc.

The amount of unchallenged dogma surrounding the "oh, I can use my laptop to run my email, browse the internet, and get great sound, whatever Apple does is great" is absolutely outstanding to me.....


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: I'm currently reading..., posted on March 19, 2015 at 12:21:38
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
I don't disagree about breaking new ground, and quite frankly the OS is far more elegant than Windows.

The built in premium is often hard to swallow, although the iPad Air I think was fairly priced.

It may even be that some Apple products are obsolete quite a bit sooner than 4 years.

 

RE: A company who has eschewed high performance audio, posted on March 19, 2015 at 12:38:24
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
The whole myth of apple some how caring about sound quality started with certain USB DAC manufacturers. Then one disappointment after the next followed..like the absurd rumour that iTunes was going to sell 24 bit lossless downloads, etc.

They have not, and never will cater one iota to us.

They could have unlocked the iPod a decade ago and allowed 24 bit 192 playback.

 

RE: Finally, the beginning of the end for computers as transports..., posted on March 19, 2015 at 12:38:26
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
It will probably work well as an expensive remote control gadget. Zero ports would work fine for this purpose (not counting wireless and power as "ports"). Or you could use a $79 Android tablet, like I use to control my Chromcast/TV if yu don't care about a snazzy physical package and low screen quality.

The Transport function shouldn't be near the user anyhow. The functions of file storage, transport, DAC, and user control are all separate logical functions and are probably best packaged separately.

Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

RE: I'm currently reading..., posted on March 19, 2015 at 12:41:00
mkuller
Audiophile

Posts: 38130
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: April 22, 2003
...my daughter and wife both use iPads and we all have iPhones.

My daughter started with Macs in school and continues to love them.

We use PCs with about a 4 year lifespan same as Macs.

 

RE: I'm currently reading..., posted on March 19, 2015 at 14:09:11
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
...same here, ipads and iphones, and a mac mini with hard drives attached as a NAS...but if you spend time here you would have seen the propagation of the myth of the Mac as a SOTA file playback component.



 

RE: Finally, the beginning of the end for computers as transports..., posted on March 19, 2015 at 14:25:25
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
"The Transport function shouldn't be near the user anyhow. The functions of file storage, transport, DAC, and user control are all separate logical functions and are probably best packaged separately"

Exactly, and that is why ethernet is king and that is how I have my systems set up..separate DAC, transport, hard drives, and control point.

 

RE: Meanwhile in Bose-land......., posted on March 19, 2015 at 14:38:38
Old Listener
Audiophile

Posts: 2090
Location: SF Bay area
Joined: February 6, 2005
I said

"""Apple may not have a reasonably priced unit that fits my preferences in the future. That's OK. They will have plenty of other customers and I have plenty of other alternatives""

and you said

"That is completely true, and more power to them. But that is outside the "scope" of the OPs comments."

The title of the OP was "Finally, the beginning of the end for computers as transports..."

Sounds more general than Apple Air Macs to me.

You said

"Apple has waging a war against audiophiles since day one and the war may be coming to a close."

Hard core audiophiles are mice in bed with an elephant. If the elephant rolls over, he might crush the mice but it wasn't an act of war.

You said

"And it [lossless to an Airplay device] will suck, in the course of the context through which the OP was made."

An opinion stated as though it is unarguable fact.

The Airplay environment is getting broader with more non-Apple devices and more player software. For example, JRiver can send content to Airplay devices. I expect that some Airplay combinations will perform about like the better uPnP/DLNA combinations.

my blog: http://carsmusicandnature.blogspot.com/

 

RE: distinction?, posted on March 19, 2015 at 19:24:42
Ugly
Audiophile

Posts: 2912
Location: Des Moines, WA
Joined: August 22, 2006
"It's simple really, - you need RJ45 & at least 1 USB ports to use the machine as a viable higher performing transport such as one that an audiophile who cares about sound quality, and wants a transport that is commensurate with the rest of her/his system:"

Why would you say that? Just because a device meeting those criteria may or may not exist now doesn't mean something couldn't be created someday. For example: the new flavors of wifi have plenty of bandwidth and functionality to pass as high a quality 2 channel as any super-hearing-human, or delusional one for that matter, could ever hope for. I could even imagine that with some of that 802.11s stuff recently rolled into the latest revs there could even be be extremely high reliability links established which would virtually eliminate errors and dropouts.

Besides isn't Airplay or whatever it is supposed to be able to do 24bit 48kHz audio? Do you have your experimental evidence proving with statistical certainty that you actually require better or is this just some assumption you are making?

"Look within, - you're looking at it from the perspective of a non-audiophile: which is outside of the scope of the post and these forums."

That's the upside to applying a logical analysis to statements. No need to look within and potentially taint your result. It just is or it just isn't valid logically.

"It seems silly only if the context is users who are "normal" and not audiophiles."

I disagree. Irrational thought patterns are just silly. End of story. It doesn't matter who is having them or where they are happening at. They should just stop it.

"You keep on typing. I'm actually just defending the position, and the very reasonable assertion that wired device connectivity is essential to better performance, - after all the OP is addressing high performance."

OK but to be fair you keep on typing too and I'm just repeatedly calling bs on these silly kinds of ideas when I get the urge. What is that some new universal law of nature you just made up?

"Sprezza, - in everything that he wrote."

lol. So since this thing you see is unquotable since it wasn't an actual statement OP made it must have come to you in a vision then? Or was it a feeling?

 

Lots to choose from in MacBook Pro..., posted on March 19, 2015 at 20:14:29
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
From $1099 to $2499 and more if loaded with memory and big SSD Drive.

My mid-2011 13 in MacBook Air is still cooking, upgrades to the latest OS-X (free). Current model that replaces it is now $999 and would be a bit faster as it has a faster CPU and better graphics.

But why? If anything my 3+ year old laptop runs faster now than it did on the original operating system it came with. Never had a Windows laptop that did that.

Still would like a retina display though.

Link below:


First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

I agree with you 100%!!, posted on March 20, 2015 at 09:12:33
rlw
Audiophile

Posts: 3347
Location: Near West Palm Bch, FL
Joined: August 29, 2006
>> I am one of those that STILL wants ports and optical drives on my computer, especially a laptop.<<

For the life of me I cannot understand the reasoning of folks who think that the "cloud" is going to be their saving grace. When you remove ports and optical drives, you remove any possibility that you could use locally stored files for playback.

Sorry, but I will not allow myself to be dependent upon an internet connection to be able to do my work or listen to music. By having locally available files, I am the "master of my universe" - my apologies to Seinfeld.

Cloud storage/connectivity is *nice*, but I will not cede access to my files to an environment that is not 100% available, 100% of the time...
-RW-

 

RE: I agree with you 100%!!, posted on March 20, 2015 at 10:21:12
"Sorry, but I will not allow myself to be dependent upon an internet connection to be able to do my work or listen to music."

I have not embraced the cloud either, but I wonder if the same argument wasn't used 100 years ago when electric power transmission started. Sooner or later, a generation of people will come to rely on the internet much as we rely on electricity now.

I remember when the web first started and I was involved in discussions about the wonderment of it all, much like I think people first talked about the telephone.

 

HAHA... "dongle hanging" brilliant! -t, posted on March 20, 2015 at 10:31:37
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
.


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

not at all, posted on March 20, 2015 at 10:41:07
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
""this had already been achieved at PARC. He stole an existing concept already developed to a working model, and made some improvements."'

I said, - "on the basis of creativity"

Nothing you said refutes that....legality doesn't enter into it....many people believe that the "IDEA" of a mouse was CREATED by Apple.


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: distinction?, posted on March 20, 2015 at 12:56:29
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
" For example: the new flavors of wifi have plenty of bandwidth and functionality to pass as high a quality 2 channel as any super-hearing-human, or delusional one for that matter, could ever hope for."

I'll believe it when I see it. Equivalent would mean equivalent performance, i.e. the wi-fi always delivering the packet without error at or before the wired network. This means that a wi-fi network must never corrupt, drop or have to retransmit a packet, since with wired Ethernet the error rate is effectively zero. Not something in any wi-fi network that I am familiar with. (Or any radio technology that I've seen, but perhaps there is some military radio technology that comes close.)


Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

RE: I agree with you 100%!!, posted on March 20, 2015 at 13:03:05
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
At present it costs most people three times more to get their electric power "off the grid". There are exceptions, for example those so far away that the capital cost of running power lines is prohibitive.

There are no similar economies of scale with computing, although there are apparent economies of scale when you consider reliability and system management. I say, "apparent" because when you use the cloud you must trust the cloud operator to retain your data safely and to not disclose it without your permission. (Legally in the U.S. the government can compel the cloud provider to disclose your data without a warrant, but if your computer is in your home, legally they can not access your data without a warrant. Whether the government obeys the law is another question...)




Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

RE: I agree with you 100%!!, posted on March 20, 2015 at 15:43:28
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
"Sorry, but I will not allow myself to be dependent upon an internet connection to be able to do my work or listen to music. By having locally available files, I am the "master of my universe" - my apologies to Seinfeld.

Cloud storage/connectivity is *nice*, but I will not cede access to my files to an environment that is not 100% available, 100% of the time.."

This is my position exactly.

"The Cloud" was a marketing term the computer industry coined because they alraady exploited all other avenues.

 

RE: I agree with you 100%!!, posted on March 20, 2015 at 15:47:35
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
There has been, and always will be, going forward, those who actually whish to hold works of art in their hands, hence vinyl being coming a media darling and healthy market for reel to reel tapes and used CDs.

The reason the previous generation stopped paying for music is that it was just a bunch of files on their laptop..there was zero attachment.

So comparing electricity to media streaming is kind of off the mark.

 

RE: distinction?, posted on March 23, 2015 at 21:21:10
Ugly
Audiophile

Posts: 2912
Location: Des Moines, WA
Joined: August 22, 2006
I wont believe it until I see it either but can see from what little reading about 802.11s I've done there appears to be hope from the standpoint there at least exists standards by which truly reliable, industrial control network grade wifi audio systems technically could exist whether they actually eventually do.

 

RE: The review I read..., posted on March 24, 2015 at 06:30:17
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12327
Joined: February 9, 2010
Really, this isn't Apple. it's a new industry standard and other devices like Chromebooks are using it as well. Unlike previous USB connectors, the USB C connector works when flipped -- thank God for that! -- and USB 3.1 is faster than USB 3.0. That doesn't matter for a single two-channel audio connection, but it does matter for hubs and more demanding applications.

 

RE: I'm currently reading..., posted on March 24, 2015 at 06:36:03
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12327
Joined: February 9, 2010
I find the PC a necessity for high quality audio playback because the available software is much more powerful. Otherwise, I think I'd prefer a Mac for home use -- the hardware is the same, made in the same factories with the same components, but OS X is a better operating system than Windows, which in recent years has been getting worse rather than better with each succeeding generation.

 

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