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Pipo X7 Setup, Quick Audition, and some - pics

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Posted on February 22, 2015 at 15:51:09
AbeCollins
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Location: USA
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Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 Just for grins I ordered the inexpensive Pipo X7 and it finally arrived this weekend. I figured I would play with it for a short while before shipping it to my sister for her kids to beat on.

My Pipo X7 is configured with the Intel Atom Z3736F quad-core CPU 1.33 GHz, 2GB RAM, and 32GB flash memory. It comes with Windows 8.1 32-bit.

A couple of the Pipo X7 online reviews got it wrong:

- Pipo X7 does not come in an aluminum case. The main housing is plastic made to look like aluminum. Inside the Pipo X7 there's a chrome colored plastic mounting bracket with plastic standoffs used for mounting the two internal printed circuit boards. The plastic mounting bracket is glued to the inside of the plastic case. The only notable metal I found was a slightly rusted bottom plate.

- The case does not act as heatsink as the CPU is in no way touching the case. Besides, plastic doesn't make for a good heatsink. Regardless, the thing draws little power and never gets very warm. However, I do question it's shielding properties since the case is plastic.

I ran the Pipo X7 along with JRiver, Foobar2000, VLC, and my PS Audio NuWave and Oppo HA-1 DACs today. I even went as far as messing with BIOS settings for core clocking and power management, along with turning off some services in Windows.

It's not bad but I still prefer the Mac with Audirvana Plus, and I much prefer OS X over Windows. No surprise.

Two USB 2.0 ports up front, power button, red LED, and mini jack


In back: 12V power jack, 10/100 Ethernet (no GigE), HDMI, 2 USB 2.0 (no USB 3.0), Micro SD slot, wifi antenna


Thin metal bottom plate, slightly rusted


Chrome colored plastic PCB support bracket and standoffs glued in place




Pipo X7 and external 512GB USB SSD for music files


Agilent (Hewlett-Packard) Linear Power Supply instead of the included wall wart




I might give JPlay a try before I box it up and send it on it's way.



 

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RE: Pipo X7 Setup, Quick Audition, and some - pics, posted on February 22, 2015 at 21:41:05
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 "However, I do question it's shielding properties since the case is plastic" The Auralic Aires streamer is in a plastic case. Auralics reason for doing this is better WiFi reception. They said the majority of users of the Aries use WiFi and a metal case is not the best answer for WiFi Reception
Alan

 

RE: Pipo X7 Cae, posted on February 22, 2015 at 22:07:10
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 Actually the black one is Al. The White one seems to be the first model.

WiFi is easily disabled and removed.

 

RE: Pipo X7 Cae, posted on February 22, 2015 at 22:20:03
AbeCollins
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Location: USA
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  Since: February 2, 2002
Even a couple online reviewers were fooled into thinking the case is aluminum, but it's not:




 

RE: Pipo X7 Setup, Quick Audition, and some - pics, posted on February 22, 2015 at 22:22:24
AbeCollins
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But why would Auralic's reasoning apply to the Pipo X7? The Pipo has an external wifi antenna.

 

RE: Pipo X7 Setup, Quick Audition, and some - pics, posted on February 22, 2015 at 23:10:23
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 "I ran the Pipo X7 along with JRiver, Foobar2000, VLC, and my PS Audio NuWave and Oppo HA-1 DACs today. I even went as far as messing with BIOS settings for core clocking and power management, along with turning off some services in Windows.

It's not bad but I still prefer the Mac with Audirvana Plus, and I much prefer OS X over Windows. No surprise."

Not really a good comparison. You are also using a USB DAC and USB file drive, very bad idea. There is a way to go before you can fairly compare the two.

 

RE: Pipo X7 Case-the base is certainly steel, posted on February 22, 2015 at 23:35:16
fmak
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Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 I just tested it with a magnet. My spec on the black unit says: case - metal.

The heat sink is certainly metal - see teardown reviews. No maker will
omit a heatsink or couple this to plastic.

 

SQ Dependencies, posted on February 22, 2015 at 23:46:19
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 Set up of player software, Exact BIOS setup very important in X7, USB port location to dac important and Port isolation via iFi or Wyrd important.

The Agilent U8000 has a fan and this is what one review says about it:

'' I bought it for around 280 euro on Farnell and it got delivered within 24 hours. The noise from the fan is not to bad on the low / high settings.''

The peak to peak noise spec in constant voltage mode is 12mV pk-pk. Ity has a commendably high bandwidth though.

On another point, connections of computers to power supplies should never be made with croc clips, which can have high contact output impedance and poor joint integrity..

 

RE: Pipo X7 Setup, Quick Audition, and some - pics, posted on February 23, 2015 at 07:23:41
AbeCollins
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Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
Not really a good comparison. You are also using a USB DAC and USB file drive, very bad idea. There is a way to go before you can fairly compare the two.

Why is a USB DAC and external USB drive a bad idea? Many systems are set up this way. Besides, I used the same USB DAC and USB drive on the Mac so in that regard the setup is the same.





 

Why is a USB DAC and external USB drive a bad idea?, posted on February 23, 2015 at 07:49:57
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 This is obvious if you care and are up to date with getting the best SQ out of usb audio. The Pipo needs to output it's usb dac connection via a voltage and signal isolator such as the Wyrd or iFi USB Power.

Use the built in micro sd card, and SQ improves by another notch.

 

RE: Why is a USB DAC and external USB drive a bad idea?, posted on February 23, 2015 at 08:07:55
AbeCollins
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Location: USA
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Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
So now I have to run crippled limiting myself to the small capacity of a micro-SD card, and cobble more external clutter around it?.

Is this indicative of how one has to butcher a PC setup to make it work as a satisfactory music player?



 

RE: Pipo X7 Case-the base is certainly steel, posted on February 23, 2015 at 08:10:34
AbeCollins
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Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 Yes, the base on my Pipo X7 is slightly rusted steel. I've established that in my original post. Did the magnet stick to the rest of your case?

There are teardown reviews out there that claim the Pipo X7 uses it's entire case as a heatsink. I don't see how that is possible.



 

RE: SQ Dependencies, posted on February 23, 2015 at 08:15:31
AbeCollins
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Posts: 46280
Location: USA
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 You're grasping at straws again.

It is perfectly acceptable practice to use croc clips in a temporary setup as is done ALL THE TIME in engineering labs. But I wouldn't expect you to know this given your demonstrated lack of knowledge in the field of electronics.

That power supply noise spec you conveniently cited is worse case under maximum load that the power supply is rated for (@ 5.5 Amperes). Under light to modest load the noise is exceptionally low as I posted in another thread.

Can you show us the the measured noise from your DIY 3-terminal LM317 based power supply?

Agilent U8002A Power Supply Noise at 12-Volt 1-Ampere load



 

The way you butcher a 'review', posted on February 23, 2015 at 08:22:51
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 is to connect your computer power supply using crop clips and to accuse other reviewers of being wrong about the casing material of their units.

It is well known that files on SD cards can sound better and your attitude simply shows that you are not after sound quality but a lower common denominator with your botched setups.

 

RE: SQ Dependencies, posted on February 23, 2015 at 08:24:13
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 Let inmates judge.

 

RE: The way you butcher a 'review' - continue, posted on February 23, 2015 at 08:31:52
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 and use a fanned power supply.

 

RE: The way you butcher a 'review', posted on February 23, 2015 at 08:32:10
AbeCollins
Audiophile

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Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 Nothing wrong with clips for a temporary setup. It is done ALL THE time but since you've never worked professionally in electronics I wouldn't expect you to know that.

There are conflicting reports on what the case is made of. I've shown you that.

It is well known that files on SD cards can sound better? Where are those conclusive reports? SD cards are unreliable, I know that to be true.



 

RE: SQ Dependencies, posted on February 23, 2015 at 08:33:02
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 Inmates like you, of course. ;-)



 

RE: The way you butcher a 'review' - continue, posted on February 23, 2015 at 08:35:50
AbeCollins
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Location: USA
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  Since: February 2, 2002
 The Agilent power supply has a quiet fan and it was used at the time to show the Pipo's modest power draw via the power supply's built-in voltmeter and ammeter. I also used the cheap wall wart power supply that came with the Pipo and my fanless TeraDak power supply.



 

RE: Pipo X7 Setup, Quick Audition, and some - pics, posted on February 23, 2015 at 08:46:16
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 don't know. Probably doesn't
Alan

 

a temporary setup, posted on February 23, 2015 at 09:28:33
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 fine, but a usual, you are making deductions on sound quality and telling inmates that you 'regular' MAC, costing 10 to 15 times as much is 'better'. Was that surprising?

You are also using a power supply costing 4 times, when a silent LM317 12 V linear costing $30 and without a fan will probably do better in avoiding sonic masking.

Please do not demean others for their views and posting 'conclusions' when you are unable and unwilling to set up equipment for audio reviews properly.

 

RE: Pipo X7 Setup, Quick Audition, and some - pics, posted on February 23, 2015 at 10:15:09
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
 "Why is a USB DAC and external USB drive a bad idea?"

If they are on the same USB Host Controller then there may be interference due to resource contention. If they are separate controllers then there won't be a problem. The Windows device manager (View Devices by Connection) provides the necessary information to ensure that file I/O is kept separate from audio output to the DAC.



Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

RE: Pipo X7 Setup, Quick Audition, and some - pics, posted on February 23, 2015 at 10:48:59
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 "If they are on the same USB Host Controller then there may be interference due to resource contention. If they are separate controllers then there won't be a problem. The Windows device manager (View Devices by Connection) provides the necessary information to ensure that file I/O is kept separate from audio output to the DAC."

There type of systems only have one controller.

 

RE: The way you butcher a 'review', posted on February 23, 2015 at 11:01:52
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 "It is well known that files on SD cards can sound better? Where are those conclusive reports? SD cards are unreliable, I know that to be true."

Lots of good info on CA and JPlay about running OS and or loading files off CF and other memory cards. SuperDad on CA does this (OS) with his MAC.I would not go out of the way personally to do this, but from what people have said there are sonic benefits.

 

As soon as you see request for conclusive reports or proof - you know for sure that conversation is pointless., posted on February 23, 2015 at 11:13:18
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 7181
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 Neither exists, unless one is willing - and able - to obtain them himself. Both seem to be a problem here.

 

RE: The way you butcher a 'review', posted on February 23, 2015 at 11:17:06
AbeCollins
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The benefit has to outweigh the drawbacks for it to be a serious consideration in my system. I am completely satisfied with using a HDD or SSD for their capacity and proven reliability. And by no means to they sound bad.

 

RE: The way you butcher a 'review', posted on February 23, 2015 at 11:28:47
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 "The benefit has to outweigh the drawbacks for it to be a serious consideration in my system. I am completely satisfied with using a HDD or SSD for their capacity and proven reliability. And by no means to they sound bad."

I actually have a CF card and adapter for my OS. Have not gotten around to doing it. Only certain cards and adapters will work, it is a bit tricky. My library is way too big for cards. Waiting for the 6TB cards...

 

RE: a temporary setup, posted on February 23, 2015 at 11:31:20
AbeCollins
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Location: USA
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 you are making deductions on sound quality and telling inmates that you 'regular' MAC, costing 10 to 15 times as much is 'better'.

This is exactly what I said, "It's not bad [Pipo X7] but I still prefer the Mac with Audirvana Plus.."

Where did I demean others for their views in my O.P. ?

If you take issue with that, write your own in-depth review comparing a Mac to the Pipo.

You are also using a power supply costing 4 times, when a silent LM317 12 V linear costing $30 and without a fan will probably do better in avoiding sonic masking.

You're entitled to your assumption but...

The Agilent power supply that I used is a far cry better than the included wall wart or a power supply based on the three terminal LM317 regulator chip. I also used my TeraDak linear power supply.



 

The reality is this, posted on February 23, 2015 at 11:35:28
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 If one uses a $120 box for background play of good quality, one is not running a top quality audio system.

However, to get the best out of the system, a 64G or even 128G micro sd card can be a satisfactory source when shared with the increasing number of boxes that can use them. The cost is likely to be another $100 or so.

A micro sd card uses bugger all power, as opposed to perhaps 0.2-0.3 A required for an ssd which can and does 'kick back' thru the same usb controller.

Anyway, I played the same tracks over and over with a usb drive against a fast micro sd card, and the latter sounds more focussed and together than the former - better overall.

I shall be quite happy to run a quality background audio system of small size and weight by spending another $100 on a mini display and a remote.
This will free my desktop for video and other heavy processing. The display will be off when a playlist has been set.

 

And basically, posted on February 23, 2015 at 11:42:33
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 you haven't much of a clue about setting audio up correctly.

Sigh and I have better things to do.....

 

RE: Pipo X7 Setup, Quick Audition, and some - pics, posted on February 23, 2015 at 11:42:46
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
 If that's the case here, then the system is probably not suitable for audio, unless it has enough RAM to buffer entire playlists (unlikely). This is the situation with my Raspberry Pi.
Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

RE: The reality is this, posted on February 23, 2015 at 11:44:16
AbeCollins
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Location: USA
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Yes, I too might relegate the Pipo to background music if I had a need for a separate box. However, I have no need for it in this capacity as my Mac is used as my main player -OR- for background music. I use a totally separate laptop for work.

I'll be sending the Pipo X7 off to my sister's kids. It's a great little PC on the cheap that they can beat on without much loss if it gets infected or broken.

 

RE: Pipo X7 Setup, Quick Audition, and some - pics, posted on February 23, 2015 at 11:57:07
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 "If that's the case here, then the system is probably not suitable for audio, unless it has enough RAM to buffer entire playlists (unlikely). This is the situation with my Raspberry Pi."

Probably better than the PI. You can stream files from a NAS. With minimal OS and player I think it can be pretty decent, going with the though process, low power/low noise, etc.

 

RE: Pipo X7 Setup, Quick Audition, and some - pics, posted on February 23, 2015 at 12:27:15
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
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Contributor
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I agree that the Pipo X7 is better than the Pi for music server duty but there are even better solutions like the NUC or Zotac Zbox nano series. Of course these cost more but since when have audiophiles been overly concerned with cost? These are all cheap relative to many source components or transports that audiophiles pony up for. ;-)



 

Almost all the audiophiles here are (overly) focused on cost -t, posted on February 23, 2015 at 14:00:57
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
 .

"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

SD may sound good on some boxes, posted on February 23, 2015 at 16:47:20
Bixby
Audiophile

Posts: 253
Location: Rocky Mountains
Joined: January 9, 2002
 But not used for aiff files on my mac mini. Sound was thin and not as pleasing as listening to files from the USB drive hooked up to router and connected via ethernet to the mac.

Superdad at CA, I believe also uses nas and ethernet in a different way but likes the sonic result of running the os on the sd card. I am not willing to go that route.

 

RE: The reality is this, posted on February 23, 2015 at 17:59:39
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 Just use VNC, no need for a monitor. Very low overhead.

 

" I much prefer OS X over Windows " , posted on February 24, 2015 at 05:02:39
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004
Hi and i do not know if this point has been already discussed
Do you mean "every" Win versions or 8.1 in particular (that from what i understand it is one of the best version for audio) ?
What do you think of Android ? does it have some potential for audio playback/streaming ?
I think that this point is a key question indeed, not enough discussed.
And i would say also Bios is extremely important.
I read often that an update of driver can improve remarkably the performance for instance of an audio interface, reducing for example the latency of the unit.
If this is not important i do not know what is important.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg

 

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