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W8.1 vs. Ubuntu 14.10

178.200.28.139

Posted on February 17, 2015 at 07:32:05
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 2424
Joined: July 11, 2007
Hi there.

Some weeks ago I spent some hours on getting a standard W8.1 installation
optimized for playback. The goal was to have a working Desktop system once finished with the tuning.

Today I thought give latest Ubuntu a try, without messing around with the system.

I took plain Rythmbox. I slightly changed the configuration of Pulseaudio.

Took me 5 minutes.

Guess what.

I'm more then happy with the result.






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If "the goal was to have a working Desktop system" - that means...., posted on February 17, 2015 at 07:52:39
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 7181
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
... that you don't have "standard W8.1 installation optimized for playback".

 

RE: If "the goal was to have a working Desktop system" - that means...., posted on February 17, 2015 at 07:59:43
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 2424
Joined: July 11, 2007

Nope. It means I havn't crippled my Windows as many others.
I can still use it for productive work.

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RE: W8.1 vs. Ubuntu 14.10, posted on February 17, 2015 at 08:01:04
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46200
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since:
February 2, 2002
Somehow I'm not surprised. Linux / Unix / Mac OS are pretty streamlined, efficient, not as bloated as Windows, and can sound excellent out of the box w/o crippling it first.

I've played with Ubuntu 12.x LTS. I'll have to try the latest 14.04 LTS. I generally load and keep the LTS versions around.

How do you like Rhythmbox ?


 

You can use any word that's more to your liking., posted on February 17, 2015 at 08:15:41
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 7181
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
It can be "optimized" - or it can be "crippled".

However, that one is usually reserved for clueless, spiteful Internet bullies, who "think" (term used very loosely) that Linux and Mac OS are the same thing, with regards to sound quality.

They also think that their shiny, overpriced lifestyle toys sound excellent out of the box - and, incidentally, can't hear a difference between Redbook and hi-rez, or between crappy switcher and quality linear PS.

 

RE: If "the goal was to have a working Desktop system" - that means...., posted on February 17, 2015 at 08:42:45
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
You can have a very good working system in windows with a lot of features disabled.

64 bit W8.1 sounds considerably better than x86.

You can never have an optimised computer system without knowing what the 'optmal' is.

 

RE: If "the goal was to have a working Desktop system" - that means...., posted on February 17, 2015 at 09:16:44
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 2424
Joined: July 11, 2007

W8.1 sounded very good once it was optimized.
No question. It just took me quite an effort to get there.
Obviously it can even be done better. For me it was good enough
after 3 days.

That level of performance I achieved with Ubuntu much earlier.

By default Ubuntu runs much less processes then Windows.
That's what you guy achieve when running Windows Server or Windows Minimal.

Cheers

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RE: W8.1 vs. Ubuntu 14.10, posted on February 17, 2015 at 09:22:46
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004
Hi thanks a lot for the very interesting information
Another evidence that OSs are key for good sound from a pc.
may i ask which dac are you using ?
Thanks a lot.
Kind regards,
bg

 

Try saying this to the MAC guys with their 16G Ram , posted on February 17, 2015 at 09:26:06
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
and bells and whistle player software.

 

RE: W8.1 vs. Ubuntu 14.10, posted on February 17, 2015 at 09:32:43
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 2424
Joined: July 11, 2007

RME Fireface UCX into Adam A5x.

Beside that I'm using an USB filter and linear DIY powersupply from
Thel Audioworld incl. netfilter and additional buffering (40000uF).

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RE: W8.1 vs. Ubuntu 14.10, posted on February 17, 2015 at 09:43:28
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004
Hi and thanks a lot for the kind reply

Very nice unit your RME.
But i do not see drivers for Ubuntu on the web page, only for :
- Windows 7 / Vista / XP SP2 (32 & 64 bit)
- Apple Mac OS X 10.5 Intel or up (Core Audio)
How did you manage ?

Anyway i would be very interested in trying Ubuntu.
But drivers are really an issue for me.
No one of the dacs i have come with drivers for Ubuntu.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg

 

RE: Try saying this to the MAC guys with their 16G Ram , posted on February 17, 2015 at 09:48:48
Mercman
Audiophile

Posts: 6580
Location: So. CA
Joined: October 20, 2002
Audirvana Plus can perform some optimization in OSX. The sound of the latest Pure Music and Audirvana Plus with OSX Yosemite is quite good.

Dealing with the computer 5V line noise on USB and isolating the computer's AC and HD's AC with an excellent filter like the Shunyata DPC-6 make a very big difference.

 

RE: W8.1 vs. Ubuntu 14.10, posted on February 17, 2015 at 10:40:24
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 2424
Joined: July 11, 2007
Hi.

The UCX offers, beside its proprietary mode under Windows, a CC - Class Compliant - mode (on/off via front panel).
This way you can also use the interface under Linux and Android.
The CC mode won't allow for sophisticated settings though.
You won't have the RME mixer interface under Linux.


However. You can store your UCX advanced settings under Windows into a macro(s) on the UCX. That macro you can load under Linux while you're in in CC mode via the front panel.

Volume control on a per channel basis you can also run from the front panel in CC mode.

CC mode is limited to 96kHz.

I've been using the UCX for an active speaker project (Arch Linux/squeezlite/ecasound on a Cubitruck). This worked extremely well.

Cheers


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RE: If "the goal was to have a working Desktop system" - that means...., posted on February 17, 2015 at 11:00:19
Windows X
Manufacturer

Posts: 209
Location: Thailand
Joined: February 28, 2011
I disagree. Most people are happy with Windows sound without being crippled. I read your previous posts about Windows and I found you tried to further crippling Windows as effort to not use Fidelizer in your system. It doesn't mean most people would do the same.

 

RE: W8.1, posted on February 17, 2015 at 11:06:36
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
8is a turd and all those (cr)apps running don't go away even if you right click and uninstall them. More steps are required. 8 and 8.1 are resource hogs.


E
T


ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

RE: W8.1 vs. Ubuntu 14.10, posted on February 17, 2015 at 12:02:00
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004
Hi and thanks a lot. Very interesting indeed.
I have to study this Class Compliant - mode of which i hear for the 1st time
As i read greatly positive comments on slimmed OS i cannot think of a more slimmed OS of Android.
I also loaded the usb audio pro player app .... but it does not work with my dac.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg

 

Can't comment on W8.1 but can comment on stock Ubuntu w/Alsa as well as ChromiumOS and ChromeOS, posted on February 17, 2015 at 14:53:51
ChromiumOS and ChromeOS both sound terrific. ChromiumOS is a hefty git sync and some time compiling, I prefer them to Ubuntu, less things going on. Sound almost exactly the same, but you'll have to be friendly with HTML5 to get anything done in Chromium and its derivatives.

Best I heard was your custom Linux build, many many years ago (if that was you, I don't remember) in terms of streamlined bare bones systems. Lots of innovation in that space now, very good sound I get from my Bluesound node embedded device. I read some people like the MPD based Bryston player too.

I basically gave up doing it myself and now use Sonos almost exclusively for cd quality, for DSD and hires I still have to figure that out, got to fiddle with some new equipment and software first, that will keep me busy for awhile.

If you have any recommendation for Linux DSD playback that would be great. I tend to prefer that because it had been over a decade since I seriously used Windows OS. Although the Xbox One is really nice system I have seen, although that's not too related to the entire OS.

 

4GB is fine. You're just jealous... but you'll get over it someday, posted on February 17, 2015 at 16:19:36
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46200
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since:
February 2, 2002

If you've paid any attention to the various Mac posts you would have read several times that 4GB is more than sufficient on Mac (and the default minimum they come with these days).

8GB is what I would consider to be the sweet spot IF the user chooses to use Memory Play which is offered in many players.

I have 16GB because when I'm not playing music I reconfigure my Mac for other tasks like video transcoding.







 

RE: W8.1, posted on February 17, 2015 at 17:01:36
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46200
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since:
February 2, 2002

I find Win 8.1 to be more reliable compared to older Windows. However, it remains more resource intensive with many more processes running than I find on Mac OS or Linux. This may account for why folks spend quite a while 'optimizing' Windows for music.

MS will release Windows 10 by late 2015. I believe the Windows 10 Technical Preview ends around April. I tried it a few months ago but it was understandably not ready for prime time. I have since removed it from my system.

My understanding is that Windows 10 will be a free download upgrade for a year for users of Windows 7 or 8.1. They will also come out with a new browser called Spartan as they have lost most of their IE browser market share to Chrome which now dominates.



 

16G of RAM is not the biggest problem., posted on February 17, 2015 at 20:10:52
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 7181
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
It's the rigidity of HW/SW platform, and more importantly, rigidity (to put it mildly) of the brains of true followers, that put them in a handicapped position, with no chance to get ahead.

 

RE: 16G of RAM is not the biggest problem., posted on February 17, 2015 at 22:12:48
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
Agree, but workout how much power is consumed and how much ram is actually used.

 

RE: 4GB is fine. You're just jealous... but you'll get over it someday, posted on February 17, 2015 at 23:43:23
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
This remark, not based on reasoning, is indicative of the character of your posts here.

There is no reason, for any of us who want to discuss issues, to be jealous of anyone or anything.

Fact. When inmates buy Apple computers, they are buying pieces of very expensive glass staircases all over the world. And they are subsidising huge queues of people outsdie Apple Stores buying products for grey export. You see them in London and all over the World. It's ok, but it is why there is a huge cost premium on MACs.

 

I am playing now with a small Pipo X7 tha comes with 8.1 Bing bong ... , posted on February 17, 2015 at 23:57:23
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004
and this morning when i shutdwon it and i saw "update 40 of 74" i realized immediately that a OS that forces me to be connected to internet to work is a huge mistake.
And i could not shutdown without updating !!!! i could not choose !!!
Actually i did it .. but i am sure this evening it will start again the process ... as a first action, in complete autonomy.
The uprising of the machine. I will expect also a raspberry when the process will end.
I was slaved to the pc (and the net) ... unbelievable.
Most of recent OSs have as main objective to make us slave of the net.
I am convinced now for a audio only pc the isolation from internet is absolutely mandatory.
Linux could be indeed the best choice.
I have just to find a suitable usb to digital interface ... possibly with I/O because i have some recording wish for the future.
Sorry for the outburst. Have a nice day.
Kind regards,
bg

 

RE: I am playing now with a small Pipo X7 tha comes with 8.1 Bing bong ... , posted on February 18, 2015 at 00:31:11
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
You need to disable Automatic Update in Control Panel and tell the Pipo to abandon, a feature that comes with all Windows installs unless you say not to during install.

I always say no as many updates (like Samoa time etc) has zero relevance to how I use the thing.

 

Thank you !!!! i did not know ... , posted on February 18, 2015 at 01:09:50
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004

Hi and thanks a lot indeed for the very precious advice.
First thing this evening.
And also thank you very much indeed for directing me to this very nice little pc ... i already love it, updating aside but now i know that is a non issue.
It is completely silent and stays at ambient temperature.
I have bought already another one to be kept as spare.
I have not yet done a more serious listening ... but i already like the sound a lot indeed. The other one i will keep completely isolated by the net after the installation to avoid "infections".

Are you using the stock PS or something better ?

Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg

 

RE: Thank you !!!! i did not know ... , posted on February 18, 2015 at 03:57:11
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
PS - fed from modified (by me) LM317 9V

Micro SD is good with Sandisk Extreme. You don't even need a usb HDD if you are content with up to 128G storage! Bit pricey though.

 

RE: You can use any word that's more to your liking., posted on February 18, 2015 at 04:17:19
SBGK
Audiophile

Posts: 444
Joined: March 22, 2012
They are not internet bullies, they are just playing a different game

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game
http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/

 

Whya are you, posted on February 18, 2015 at 04:34:51
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
assuming that others have crippled theirs.

We all use our desktops for 'productive' work. It's just that software suites and hardware are much too complicated and have far more functionality than many people need. Software that spy on how one uses it and offers useless upgrades should jolly well be crippled.

Why is Adobe Reader 4-10 times the size of better Readers?

 

RE: Thank you !!!! i did not know ... , posted on February 18, 2015 at 05:42:33
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004
Hi and sorry but i do not understand
The supply voltage is 12VDC i see ... do you mean that it works also with 9VDC ?
I am using a normal 12VDC/2A because the stock has US standard plug.
For the additional memory i do not think i will need any more.
I am using the Pipo essentially as a streamer in the end, a very beautiful little streamer.
This evening i will try to playback some HD files from a nas i have.
Then i will connect my Gustard U12 usb > spdif converter and start with evaluations of some dacs i already have at hand.
Thanks again for directing me to this that could very well be my final audio pc ... at least for the next months.

P.S. I would have loved to use also Linux but the lack of drivers for usb dacs/converters is stopping me. But i feel that also Linux operated pcs (and maybe even Android) have a huge potential.
For instance is amazing what Android can do with very little HW resources ... i have already many Android media players that stream so nicely but they all lack drivers for dacs. A real pity.
Kind regards,
bg

 

RE: Thank you !!!! i did not know ... , posted on February 18, 2015 at 07:14:00
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
Sorry I should have said 12V

Before listening, consider killing speedstep and EIST plus S0ix in Bios. This reduces latency by a lot. After that, it still only needs 5-6Watts.

 

I just Google'd - it makes perfect sense to be jealous...., posted on February 18, 2015 at 09:13:06
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 7181
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
... of $130 16Gb memory upgrade for MAC Mini. Especially in the context of audiophile audio system.

Must be Apple thing - to be jealous of anything and everything, regardless of how stupid that looks and sounds. Driving force behind the sales, no doubt.

 

Bios setting ... kind request of advice, posted on February 18, 2015 at 09:40:05
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004
Hi and sorry to bother you again
But i played a little with the Bios settings
First i am impressed by the huge amount of settings available.
This is both and opportunity and a threat for an ignorant like me.
For instance i set something wrong and i got remarkable negative issues in the playback.
I think i have found a reasonable combination, without knowing what i am doing by the way.
As i would like to understand a little more the meaning of the various parameters, do you know maybe if any "tutorial" about the "Pipo X7 Bios" is available somewhere ?
Moreover is there a way to check the pc latency ?
I have found a program but it does not work with 8.1, unfortunately.
Sorry and thanks a lot again.
Kind regards,
bg

 

it makes perfect sense?, posted on February 18, 2015 at 23:40:23
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
Audiophile system?

Large PS next to DAC and Computer on top of each other?

i7 2.6G CPU consuming 11W only when working a full whack or just idling?

A resolving system from which no change in sound quality can be detected when it is not playing music or when system is throttled for low power consumption?

 

RE: Can't comment on W8.1 but can comment on stock Ubuntu w/Alsa as well as ChromiumOS and ChromeOS, posted on February 19, 2015 at 01:14:30
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 2424
Joined: July 11, 2007
You might want to try Volumio on ARM computer or

Daphile on Intel http://www.daphile.com/

Both are optimized headless Linux systems.
You just burn the downloaded image to a harddisk and then
you configure them over Web browsers.

Daphile and Volumio also support DSD afaik.

For all PC/Windows fans with class compliant DACs and a spare HDD/SSD. Playing around with Daphile will be a no-brainer.

Just give it a try.

Cheers

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RE: Bios setting ... kind request of advice, posted on February 19, 2015 at 01:46:08
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
You can save the BIOS settings before altering Goto the last page.

With each setting, you can google to see what it does; I do that.

It seems that S0ix needs to be disabled for latency to be low.

For latency display, download Latency Mon.

 

bullies?, posted on February 19, 2015 at 01:48:42
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
There are at least two here, playing the bully game.

 

Thank you very much again ! very kind of you !, posted on February 19, 2015 at 03:50:31
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004
Hi thanks a lot again ! i am very optimistic now
At first streaming HD content was so so ... then after some wrong bios changes quite bad. Now after further bios changes is quite ok !
So the bios settings impact the performance a lot !
And the sound is very clean even through the dac in the tv ... i am not joking.
I imagine it can only be better with a decent dac
i should receive a Apogee Rosetta 200 soon (i know that is not audiophile approved but i have great respect of Apogee brand).
Thanks a lot again.
Have a nice day.

P.S. by the way i checked and i have a 32 bit version of Windows 8.1 Bing. I would have preferred 64 bit version, but this is really cheap (i.e. free)
Have you got also the 32 bit version ? I see that the cpu is indeed 64 bit.


Kind regards,
bg

 

64 bit, posted on February 19, 2015 at 04:55:48
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
you have to have this

http://www.amazon.com/Zotac-ZBOX-CI320NANO-U-W2-nano-Plus-Windows/dp/B00M4OEPLA

Walmart is even cheaper! But can't get in in Europe (or Asia).

You have just discovered who is right. Those who say that settings make no difference to audio, or those who find that they do.

I'd also get rid of prefetch, hibernation, system restore, pagefile etc.

 

RE: 64 bit, posted on February 19, 2015 at 05:56:39
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004
Hi and thanks a lot again.
I am perfectly fine with the X7. And i can confirm that a wrong setting in the BIOS was giving me scratches and drops in the sound and hiccups in the videos.
So my next weeks will be dedicated to learn more about the various parameters. To try to get the best out of it.

I think that also Linux can be great but the lack of drivers support stops me. It is also not very demanding for HW i think.
Maybe it could even work on the X7 platform ?
And also it is amazing what Android (also Linux based) can do with the poor HW of some media player.

This X7 is very nice indeed and stays silent and cold.
I feel it can be a very good streamer.
Thanks a lot again.
Kind regards,
bg

 

" class compliant DAC ", posted on February 19, 2015 at 11:17:22
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004

Hi and sorry to jump in
What is a class compliant DAC ?
How can i know if a dac is class compliant ?
Thanks a lot.
Kind regards,
bg

 

RPi-2 + Volumio, posted on February 19, 2015 at 17:50:53
Audio Bling
Audiophile

Posts: 307
Location: Australia
Joined: October 9, 2007
SC, given your recommendation in an earlier post you ought to be aware that RPi-2 + Volumio is a “no go”. Currently, the package is hugely unstable. Also, the Volumio forum appears to be useless for those needing help. Not sure what audio alternatives there are right now for RPi-2. Perhaps windows 10 will save the day when it finally arrives.

 

RE: RPi-2 + Volumio, posted on February 19, 2015 at 23:38:09
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 2424
Joined: July 11, 2007
Thx for the info. I kind of expected that.

I think I also wrote in that or another thread related to these new ARM boards that "I'm waiting for the dust to settle"

From my experience it takes several months (>6) to get new ARM boards, related firmware, drivers and OS working in a rather acceptable way.
For the RPI Rev1 it was even longer than that. No. RPI Rev1 actually never got stable. But that's been a HW problem.
For me it's been the B+ where operation finally got stable.

I would not recommend to jump on the train at such an early stage.

Volumio can't do anything if firmware and drivers are not stable.
These guys just take what's there.

Cheers


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RE: " class compliant DAC ", posted on February 20, 2015 at 00:12:41
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 2424
Joined: July 11, 2007
A class compliant DAC doesn't need proprietary drivers.
These DACs will work with the generic drivers as supplied
by the particular operating system.

The class compliant DACs usually work "plug'n play" under OSX,
Android, Linux and Windows (up to 96kHz).

Before buying a DAC, you need to check with the manufacturer or community, if the device is Class Compliant.

Advise:
Never buy a device that runs on proprietary drivers only!
No matter how great the reviews seem to be!
As soon as there are issues with the driver (sooner or later)
you'll be left alone.
Usually you can't avoid proprietary drivers on multi I/O ProAudio devices, which allow complex routings and settings. If you can't get around a ProAudio device make sure to have some kind of long term support perspective. There's no better company then RME when it comes to long term card support!!!

Under Windows many Class Compliant DACS will run up to 96khz sample rate
without proprietary driver.
I'm not sure if you still need a 3rd party driver to get samplerates >96khz going after all these years.


Then there are certain DACs which are "very close" to be "Class Compliant".
Such a device used to be (still is??) e.g. the NAD M51. It'll be recognised e.g. by a Linux system. Everything looks OK. But there won't be any sound. NAD implemented very minor features that makes the generic driver to fail. (As a hacker you can fix this.) You better avoid these devices as well.


Cheers

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RE: " class compliant DAC ", posted on February 20, 2015 at 01:44:24
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004
Hi and thanks a lot for the very kind and helpful reply.

" A class compliant DAC doesn't need proprietary drivers "
they are a godsend ... drivers availability is indeed a big issue for me because i really would like to try both Linux and Android sources but the drivers support for these OSs is extremely limited.
Is there a list somewhere of these class compliant devices ?
I am sold on slim OS and HW nowadays.
I found even Win 8.1 too much loaded with features.
I have tried OpenElec and was amazed by its diminutive size.
But lack of drivers for dacs is an issue.
Are you saying that all RME interfaces are Class compliant ?
That is very interesting.
I have absolutely to check for this " Class Compliant " devices.
Do you know of any usb to spdif converters class compliant maybe ?
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg

 

RE: RPi-2 + Volumio, posted on February 20, 2015 at 02:38:27
Audio Bling
Audiophile

Posts: 307
Location: Australia
Joined: October 9, 2007
OK. Now for the whole story..

I can manage to get Volumio going on the RPi-2 for short periods of time before it throws a fit. What I heard initially was good. When I tried the RAMPLAY mode the fidelity lifted a notch or two. There is quite a natural sound to it and I would rate it highly were it not for the problems that are currently plaguing it. Another issue is that the RAM size of the Pi means that one is constrained to approx 250mb loaded at any one time. This means one has to be moving files in and out of RAM constantly were they to be of moderate size and perhaps blocked entirely if they were greater than the threshold. Not convenient.

Given the above experience, what would really interest me is an arm-linux box with much more RAM & SATA or MSATA storage for OS. The latter because the controllers on SD cards are uniformly unreliable, IMO. And of course, one needs good community support as you have pointed out. As yet, the ducks haven't lined up..


Edit: Just to clarify, my comment relating to RAM size is only relevant for RAMPLAY which I consider to be the best. One also has the option of NAS or USB playback where there is no such limitation.

 

RE: RPi-2 + Volumio, posted on February 20, 2015 at 02:50:38
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 2424
Joined: July 11, 2007
That's why I'm also running a Cubitruck for quite some time.

It comes with SATA, 2GB RAM, GB ethernet and more.
Beside that you can run it with batteries and/or 5V.
Ethernet and USB are separated.
Volumio and SOA, both support the Cubitruck.
The OS and firmware is quite stable -- now.

I use it as server (audio/NAS) and player and DSP (crossover/equalization).

Cheers



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Thanks for the information on Daphile, posted on February 20, 2015 at 06:20:13
daphile is really nice and it sounds great. I repurposed an old laptop for it, I appreciate the info ;)

 

RE: it makes perfect sense?, posted on February 20, 2015 at 07:37:26
AbeCollins
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Your Post - RE: 16G of RAM is not the biggest problem.... Agree, but workout how much power is consumed and how much ram is actually used.

I set you straight on your comment above. My i7 Quad-Core 16GB Mac Mini consumes a whopping 11-Watts while playing music which I'm willing to bet is much less than your optimized music PC. I even showed you the power supply voltage and current draw.

You obviously lack any understanding of computers and electronics as you continue to divert the conversation since it's obvious that you dug a hole too deep for you to escape. You do this quite often, foot in the mouth with no intelligible or intelligent response.

So, how much power does your optimized music PC consume while playing music?

I doubt I'll get any intelligent response as I've already asked you this question several times.


 

RE: RPi-2 + Volumio, posted on February 20, 2015 at 07:48:23
rick_m
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Posts: 6230
Location: Oregon
Joined: August 11, 2005
"I do think that the CT slowly but surely moves into its EOL phase."

Right! EOL begins when stability, support, reliability and usability begins...

Abandon all hope ye who live in this era which will surely come to be known as the Age of Neuroticism.

Entrapped Rick


 

RE: it makes perfect sense?, posted on February 20, 2015 at 12:45:45
Bob_C
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Posts: 2667
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So now we are debating how much power we draw! One of the more important things in life for sure...

 

RE: it makes perfect sense?, posted on February 20, 2015 at 13:24:47
Ryelands
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Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
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You do this quite often, foot in the mouth with no intelligible or intelligent response.

That's as may be but, sadly, so do you.

So, how much power does your optimized music PC consume while playing music?

Does one "consume" power? Whatever, for the record, my "optimized" PC draws six watts. That said, though I don't think it's worth fighting over, fmak eschews the term "optimized". IOW, you are mis-representing him. See above.

D

 

RE: it makes perfect sense?, posted on February 20, 2015 at 13:57:59
Tony Lauck
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The issue isn't the waste of power. One way or other the power ends up as heat. Where I live at this time of your the extra heat can be quite pleasant. The issue is the power that creates unwanted electrical noise on its way to becoming heat. Almost all the steps that reduce power consumption also reduce the creation of unwanted electrical noise.


Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

RE: it makes perfect sense?, posted on February 20, 2015 at 17:44:22
AbeCollins
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I didn't bring it up, fmak did. When I posted my power draw and memory usage he went off topic as usual and never replied in a meaningful way. If you're going to make a claim that does not appear to be true, at least try to back it up when asked rather then going off topic with personal attacks.

So very typical of him.



 

As fmak correctly alluded to, these 11W on Mac ..., posted on February 20, 2015 at 18:54:40
carcass93
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Posts: 7181
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... are most likely a result of enabled Intel energy-saving features. Which, as anyone who dabbled in "random, haphazard tweaks" would know, is detrimental to sound quality. As in, it's one of the first things you would need to disable, when you start your random, haphazard tweaking.

But, of course, that can't possibly apply to fabulous sounding stock Apple computers, and their even more fabulous, albeit somewhat lazy and hard of hearing, owners.

 

RE: it makes perfect sense?, posted on February 20, 2015 at 22:05:29
fmak
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Posts: 13158
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''Almost all the steps that reduce power consumption also reduce the creation of unwanted electrical noise.''

and many of the steps increase latency, some by a very large margin. And 16G Ram increases power consumption and noise in critical areas of a computer where it is not needed for audio reproduction.

You have no idea and only speculate on noise and its effects erroneously.

How does placing a dac and a computer on top of each other, alongside a large EM generator of a big power supply reduce 'unwanted' noise thru enabling power saving firmware and software?

 

RE: it makes perfect sense?, posted on February 20, 2015 at 22:40:54
AbeCollins
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I don't care how much power YOUR PC draws because you're not the one who suggested that my i7 quad-core Mac Mini with 16GB is wasteful. I countered that a mere 11-watts while playing music is very reasonable and asked how much power his music PC draws. How was that misrepresenting him?

Of course he suddenly went off topic with personal attacks and never replied to my request with any meaningful response because he either has no clue, or more likely because he knows very well that his music PC uses significantly more power. Caught again. Why else would he have spec'd a 210-watt after market linear power supply for it?

Of course the Mac Mini automatically throttles down it's clock frequency to save energy when speed is not necessary - as will most modern PCs that are not broken. That was never in question. Besides, there is no proof positive whatsoever that leaving this capability enabled is detrimental to sound quality. This exists only in theory and only in the minds of extreme tweakers who look down on others who choose not to waste time crippling their computers for questionable sonic benefit.

It amazes me how a couple die hard tweak maniacs go to great lengths to defend a buddy when he is again proven to be flat out wrong.



 

RE: it makes perfect sense?, posted on February 20, 2015 at 22:45:00
AbeCollins
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And 16G Ram increases power consumption and noise in critical areas of a computer where it is not needed for audio reproduction.

And when I showed you that my Mini draws a mere 11-watts with 16GB of memory while playing music, you went off on personal attacks instead of replying to my question asking you how much power your music PC draws and why you spec'd a 210-watt linear power supply for it. Must be a power hungry & noisy PC!

How does placing a dac and a computer on top of each other, alongside a large EM generator of a big power supply reduce 'unwanted' noise thru enabling power saving firmware and software?

That setup was not about noise or sound quality. As I explained to you several times, it was a 'functional test' after installing a filter and linear power supply. A preliminary test if you will to determine that the installation was successful. It was not a 'listening test'. Do you have a comprehension problem?



 

RE: 4GB is fine. You're just jealous... but you'll get over it someday, posted on February 20, 2015 at 23:22:20
AbeCollins
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Fact. When inmates buy Apple computers, they are buying pieces of very expensive glass staircases all over the world. And they are subsidising huge queues of people outsdie Apple Stores buying products for grey export. You see them in London and all over the World. It's ok, but it is why there is a huge cost premium on MACs.

Not true. People are happy to pay a premium for a premium product with superior support. And that is why Apple can afford to have beautiful stores all over the world in the first place, while PC makers struggle to stay in business. That's pretty clear based on how well Apple is doing compared to others. True fact, not wild speculation.

Fact. When inmates buy a PC computer from a manufacturers, they are buying the most cheaply built hardware at the bottom of the barrel with low prices even further subsidized by the crapware vendors around the world who PAY the PC manufacturer to allow their unwanted and annoying software to be pre-installed on the brand new computer. That's OK to some and they put up with it. The buyer is left to deal with it.

Like it or not, those are the facts.


 

RE: As fmak correctly alluded to, these 11W on Mac ..., posted on February 20, 2015 at 23:47:05
fmak
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This brings up the issue of why a Mac with an i7 and 16G Ram are needed to play music? My 4VA Pipo X7 (7in x 5in) with 2G Ram does it well enough.

If throttled cpu gives 'perfect' result, then money is being wasted on funding Apple to put glass staircases all over the world!

No wonder he can't hear differences that are obvious to most of us.

 

It was not a 'listening test' - Function test?, posted on February 21, 2015 at 02:24:23
fmak
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Posts: 13158
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Why post something that does not pertain to audio?.

We all know that the MAC functions.

I regard your post with pictures as being deliberately designed for a purpose best known to yourself and perhaps aimed at discrediting inmates not holding your views.

 

The key to getting perfect sound from overpriced lifestyle toys is ...., posted on February 21, 2015 at 07:59:29
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 7181
Location: NJ
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.... to never learn, never even make an attempt to, and better yet - be unable to, in principle.

 

RE: It was not a 'listening test' - Function test?, posted on February 21, 2015 at 08:48:11
AbeCollins
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Unlike yourself, in the interest of complete transparency I show details of my equipment setup, test setup, and measurement methods so people know and can see firsthand what is being done.

My photos have nothing to do with "discrediting inmates not holding my views" but they often reinforce the discrediting of those who are flat out wrong.


Do you still not get it?


 

RE: W8.1 vs. Ubuntu 14.10, posted on February 21, 2015 at 09:02:03
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004
Hi and sorry to bother but i would like to understand better
Are you saying that you like Ubuntu 14.10 as is better than W8.1 after optimization ?
I know that Ubuntu is tricky but i am willing to take the chance to get a better sound for sure.
I would even break my piggy bank for an usb to spdif converter working with Ubuntu in case.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg

 

Latency??, posted on February 21, 2015 at 10:12:19
Tony Lauck
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Posts: 13629
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Reducing computer power consumption by underclocking and undervolting is a known technique for measuring processor consumption and has been used successfully for many people to improve playback quality.

Power consumption and latency are both proxy metrics for sound quality, not necessarily causative factors (depending on the playbackchain). There is a big difference between power consumption and latency, however. Power consumption is very easily measured by readily available equipment that can be used without specialized tools or knowledge. Latency is intrinsically difficult to measure, being a difference in time. In addition there are a huge number of events (specific occurrences in terms of specific places and times) that can be differenced when measuring latency. Some of these may be inaccessible, while others need some specialized tools. Thus it makes no sense to even talk about latency in the context of computer audio without being specific as to what is being measured, where and how. (And probably why as well.)

When I listen to my record library the latency that I experience is measured in multiple trillions of microseconds.


Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

'' I show details , posted on February 21, 2015 at 11:31:42
fmak
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Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
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of my ignorance of setting up audio equipment.'' period

If you want to be transparent about a 'function' test, then you would have run the MAC with Orthos (or is equivalent) for one hour, having disabled speed stepping, and tell us what the power consumption is during the test, what the cpu temperatures are, and what the fan speeds are.

 

RE: '' I show details , posted on February 21, 2015 at 12:21:15
AbeCollins
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How much power does your music PC draw while playing music? I've already been completely transparent about mine. Again, it draws 11-watts while playing music, which is what counts.

And your PC?



 

RE: W8.1 vs. Ubuntu 14.10, posted on February 21, 2015 at 15:10:16
AbeCollins
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February 2, 2002

Yes, I know. They usually tag-team with Mac degrading to each other. One of them is in the UK and the other enjoys death metal and other distortions.

 

Good technique???????, posted on February 21, 2015 at 21:59:09
fmak
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Posts: 13158
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Change the subject whenever it gets awkward and indefensible!!!

 

How much power does your music PC draw ?, posted on February 21, 2015 at 22:55:58
AbeCollins
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The topic has not been changed. You questioned the Mac Mini's power consumption several posts ago. I replied. I asked you several times how much your music PC draws yet you avoid the question. Why?


 

RE: 64 bit - just bought a , posted on February 21, 2015 at 23:32:16
fmak
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Posts: 13158
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Zotac CI1320 with 64 bit Bing from Amazon US. More powerful than Pipo -64G SSD 4GRam eSata/usb3 inputs. Around $280 delivered.

 

RE: How much power does your music PC draw ?, posted on February 21, 2015 at 23:33:41
fmak
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Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
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Guess, since you are so good at making things up.

 

RE: How much power does your music PC draw ?, posted on February 22, 2015 at 00:02:29
AbeCollins
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Oh no! Did you break your DMM too? I'm sorry, I thought it was just your oscilloscope that was in for repairs.

Well lets see, since you spec'd a 210-watt ATX linear power supply for your music PC I know that it draws a huge amount more than the 11-watts that my Mac Mini draws while playing music.

 

RE: 64 bit - just bought a , posted on February 22, 2015 at 00:39:39
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004
Hi and thanks a lot for the interesting suggestion

First of all a question about Office 365 ... i have deleted it from my X7
But do you know maybe if they will charge automatically after one year ?
I would like very much to avoid this inconvenience

Then lately also with your valuable advice i have realized the impact on a pc performance of bios setting and OS.
I am not in high rez files so the power is usually not an issue.
At this point i have only some beliefs about what is better:
- a 64 bit OS
- Linux OS (i see the others too much loaded with features )
- SSD
This said i am presently completely fine with the X7 that has 32 bit Win 8.1 Bing and EMMC (i.e. no one of the feautures above mentioned).
So i think that in the end there are many alternative paths to sonic pleasure.
But if i should choose a system i have the strong feeling that Linux is the right choice.
We can have the best SW in the world, but if the OS or the Bios are not optimal it is a really bad start.
Moreover Linux comes with different version all interesting
- Daphile, Ubuntu Studio and even OpenElec that is unbelievably small.

Anyway i cannot find the link to the " Zotac CI1320 with 64 bit Bing " you mention.
I have already a Zotac somewhere but with a fan ... these fans are my current nightmare. After trying a fanless pc there is no going back.
Like for SSD ... what an amazing discovery ... amazing !!!!
I think.
Kind regards,
bg

 

RE: 64 bit - just bought a , posted on February 22, 2015 at 02:01:03
fmak
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Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
http://www.amazon.com/Zotac-ZBOX-CI320NANO-U-W2-nano-Plus-Windows/dp/B00M4OEPLA

no idea what MS charges for 365. It is not, in my case appropriate for
a low power music computer.

 

RE: 64 bit - just bought a , posted on February 22, 2015 at 02:26:17
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004

Hi and thanks for the link ... very nice little unit indeed.
About 365 i hope they will ask me before charge for it just that.
I will check that easily because 8.1 with Bing is going to become extremely popular. Maybe there is a trick that i do not see.
Like with Google ? they already know almost everything of me.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg

 

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