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Connecting PC to DAC with Ethernet cable?

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Posted on October 25, 2014 at 15:51:44
wayfarer
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: NYS
Joined: March 13, 2012
 Looks like Burl B2 Bomber DAC can be directly connected to your PC via Ethernet cable. Please chime in with any opinions on this type of solution and/or on the DAC itself. Thanks

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RE: Connecting PC to DAC with Ethernet cable?, posted on October 25, 2014 at 16:14:38
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
 Uh, no. You can connect to a network with the DAC via its Ethernet input, which allows you to control the DAC via a computer. You can then interface with mixing consoles and processors and daisy chain multiple units. Note it has no digital inputs.

Ethernet has been used in professional audio and video for a decade. It

No one here will have heard this DAC is is used by recording and mastering engineers.

 

RE: Connecting PC to DAC with Ethernet cable?, posted on October 25, 2014 at 16:31:21
Roseval
Audiophile

Posts: 1845
Joined: March 31, 2008
 It is a DAC with the usual digital inputs (AES/Toslink/SPDIF)
You can connect it to the network
You need a Dante virtual soundcard to control it
https://www.audinate.com/
The Well Tempered Computer

 

RE: Connecting PC to DAC with Ethernet cable?, posted on October 25, 2014 at 17:36:27
wayfarer
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: NYS
Joined: March 13, 2012
 According to Audinate page that Roseval referenced below it can be connected directly. From Dante FAQ:

"If you have only one Dante-enabled device to connect to your computer, you may eliminate the switch and simply connect the two with a Cat5e or Cat6 Ethernet cable."

It's my understanding that all that needs to be done is to download Audinate software to your PC/MAC and connect Dante device(in this case this Burl DAC).

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RE: Connecting PC to DAC with Ethernet cable?, posted on October 25, 2014 at 17:46:43
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
 Ok, it seems with installed software it makes the DAC think the computer is a router, to simplify things.

I am not crazy about this solution as it does have one of the benefits of network audio, which is isolation between source and DAC.

Interesting product however. Thanks for posting.

Edit..Roseval indicates you need their soundcard installed on your computer too..which in reality, then really does turn your computer into a router.

 

RE: Connecting PC to DAC with Ethernet cable?, posted on October 25, 2014 at 17:50:35
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
 Sorry I read the specs in reverse...no digital OUTPUTS, but digital inputs.

I'm curious about the sample selector knob!

 

RE: Connecting PC to DAC with Ethernet cable?, posted on October 25, 2014 at 17:50:41
wayfarer
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: NYS
Joined: March 13, 2012
 Thanks for the link. I read up on Dante and my understanding is that the main goal of this protocol is transmission of digital audio, rather than just simple control of the devices on the network. So, methinks, this Burl can function as DAC if connected via Ethernet cable as it is Dante enabled device according to Audinate page.

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RE: Connecting PC to DAC with Ethernet cable?, posted on October 25, 2014 at 18:00:27
wayfarer
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: NYS
Joined: March 13, 2012
 >>Edit..Roseval indicates you need their soundcard installed on your computer too..which in >>reality, then really does turn your computer into a router.

I am still reading up on this, but I think they call their software that enables a PC to connect to Dante network a “soundcard”. Maybe...

 

RE: Connecting PC to DAC with Ethernet cable?, posted on October 25, 2014 at 18:13:12
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
 You may be right. I have finding the product literature to be a bit opaque.

Also interesting no USB input. FYI..there may be some reviews of their products in Sound On Sound.

 

RE: Connecting PC to DAC with Ethernet cable?, posted on October 25, 2014 at 19:10:40
wayfarer
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: NYS
Joined: March 13, 2012
 Thanks for the tip on SOS review. It's for the older version without the networking, but has interesting bit about DAC serving as the master clock. Unfortunately, there's no manual on Burl's website to clarify some questions I have after reading that review.

 

RE: Connecting PC to DAC with Ethernet cable?, posted on October 25, 2014 at 21:04:04
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
 Yes, no manual, and the technical info is rather fragmented.

This DAC is starting to intrigue me...Ethernet to DAC direct...hmmmm

 

RE: Connecting PC to DAC with Ethernet cable?, posted on October 26, 2014 at 03:13:12
Roseval
Audiophile

Posts: 1845
Joined: March 31, 2008
 There are a couple of protocols like these.
The ones that come to my mind
AVB
Dante
Ravenna
CobraNet
EtherSound

It is about doing real-time audio over Ethernet.
As routers, switches and CAT5 cables are dirt cheap you can save a lot of money using these protocols in large studios
The Well Tempered Computer

 

RE: Connecting PC to DAC with Ethernet cable?, posted on October 26, 2014 at 08:34:36
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
 Thanks for this info.

 

RE: Connecting PC to DAC with Ethernet cable?, posted on October 26, 2014 at 10:35:23
wayfarer
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: NYS
Joined: March 13, 2012
 I’ve been reading Audinate website in the attempt to understand this Dante Network concept and my understanding is that clock signals are transmitted with audio signals. This would differ from the way DLNA/UPnP does it and wouldn’t this mean that connecting PC to B2 DAC with Ethernet cable is basically the same thing as connecting transport to DAC with SPDIF cable?

On the other hand, one device is chosen as clock master and others as slaves. Dante uses some algorithm to make this election, but one can overrule this by manually electing the master device, which would mean that the clock inside the B2 DAC can serve as the master and the PC as its slave. But, I am not sure about this as I think master/slave relationship only applies to what they consider Dante devices and I can’t say if PC itself is one.

Most of this is a bit over my head, so what I wrote above could be total rubbish. Would be interesting to hear expert’s opinion.

 

RE: Connecting PC to DAC with Ethernet cable?, posted on October 26, 2014 at 11:24:56
audioengr
Manufacturer

Posts: 6017
Location: Oregon
Joined: April 12, 2001
 Great solution. I'm doing one myself. Most are DLNA renderer designs. The problem is that most implementations don't sound great. Similar to USB. Done right, they can both be stellar. The main advantage of Ethernet is that the computer and playback software should have less of an effect on SQ, at least in theory.

We thought Async USB would be like that too, but it turned out different...

 

Clocking in Dante (and compatible networks), posted on October 26, 2014 at 11:26:45
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
 From a causal reading of the Dante web site it appears that one node on the network becomes master clock. This can happen automatically, or it can be manually configured. This node then sends out timing information to the other nodes which use VXCOs to adjust their clock rate. This should work well if the DAC node runs the master clock. If the source or some other node runs the master clock then the sound quality will depend on details of the time synchronization protocol and details of implementation of the protocol at the clock node and the DAC node. For audiophile use (normal case with one DAC) there wouldn't be any reason to have any node other than the DAC run the master clock, so this system can have a clock architecture that isolates jitter from the network. However, it may be necessary to use a VxCO to source the clock if a product is ever going to be used as a slave, and depending on how the VxCO hardware is built this may add local jitter. (A high end DAC could presumably be built that would only work as a master clock, or alternatively it could have multiple oscillators, one variable.)

I haven't read the AES67-2013 standard for audio applications of network or the IEEE 1588 Precision Time Protocol that these networks are based on. (Both of these specifications are behind a pay wall.) So I am presuming that these protocols were correctly designed and specified. Even if this presumption is correct it is still possible for any particular product implementation to be a poor quality implementation, in terms of easy of configuration and use, freedom from glitches, or subjective sound quality.

Whether this stuff is any good or not will be determined by listening tests. In general, most studios are not built with high end sound quality in mind and follow production processes that are inimical to high sound quality. Hence, I would discount any equipment reports from studios that do not have an established reputation of putting out releases that are to audiophile standards.




Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

RE: Connecting PC to DAC with Ethernet cable?, posted on October 26, 2014 at 14:47:01
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
 Steve, very exciting. Please keep us updated. I for one am very interested in hearing about it.

 

RE: Clocking in Dante (and compatible networks), posted on October 26, 2014 at 14:49:57
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
 Thanks for the well written, informative post.

I think as time goes by USB will be phased out of high end audio. Maybe not soon, but eventually.

Agree, that any comments from studio users must weighed against their output.

 

RE: Clocking in Dante (and compatible networks), posted on October 26, 2014 at 15:21:33
wayfarer
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: NYS
Joined: March 13, 2012
 "Hence, I would discount any equipment reports from studios that do not have an established reputation of putting out releases that are to audiophile standards."

Yeap. Most of the reviews are from pro sound folks. I did find one audiophile review at computer audiophile. He seams to like it. Review is pretty comprehensive. End of the page from user sjohnson:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/b2-bomber-digital-analogue-converter-burl-audio-3135/

 

RE: Connecting PC to DAC with Ethernet cable?, posted on December 12, 2014 at 15:56:30
wayfarer
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: NYS
Joined: March 13, 2012
 I’d like to make a correction to my post above (under my old user name) in the remote chance someone stumbles upon this thread one day. I confused Dante network clock with the DAC clock of the B2 Bomber. The former syncs all the devices on the network, the latter is a component in audio signal conversion. The slave/master terminology I referred to should not be confused with similar terminology often used on this forum to describe the relationship between an audio source and external DAC.

Serge

 

RE: Clocking in Dante (and compatible networks), posted on December 13, 2014 at 01:53:21
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004
 Hi do you mean that high-end is following pro audio ...
with a lag of some years ?
Interesting
Why then to wait for the high end to ketch up up with pro audio ?

Just to add that i like so much better the ethernet jack that any usb plug
That click is comforting
" Cat6A supports high-speed data applications like 10-Gigabit Ethernet "
not bad
Thanks a lot.
Kind regards,
bg

 

RE: Clocking in Dante (and compatible networks), posted on December 13, 2014 at 08:07:48
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
 Consumer high end audio has always taken technologies and set ups from pro audio on delay. XLR connections are a perfect example. They serve utterly no purpose in home audio, but were designed for long mic cable runs etc.

Same thing for DACs, and now multi channel DACs, Wirless, and Ethernet. Wireless mics have been used in live performance for decades.

The one thing that has not caught on is powered monitors.

Ethernet is a fantastic medium for audio. Despite nonsense certain prominent individuals on this board have tried to float several years ago.

 

RE: Clocking in Dante (and compatible networks), posted on December 13, 2014 at 08:31:43
beppe61
Audiophile

Posts: 4705
Joined: January 29, 2004
Hi and thanks a lot for the very valuable advice
Sometimes i do not understand the rationale behind some decisions
Firewire is another excellent case
If i am not wrong it has been the standard, with great results, for the high quality pro digital
Why not adopt it also for the high end especially when usb is still subject of debate
I think that someone needs a substandard interface just to sell placebo or so on.
If the pro audio is good to master CDs it should also good to play them back
Am i wrong ?
Thanks again.

Kind regards,
bg

 

RE: Clocking in Dante (and compatible networks), posted on December 13, 2014 at 15:12:41
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
 Apple stopped supporting Firewire in any big way, moving to Thunderbolt. No DAC manufacturer in the consumer market was going to touch it.

In pro audio, much of the time custom DAW's are used.

 

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