DAC Sales hit the skids? Add a DSD Module!!

Like other DAC makers Gordon has to jump on board the DSD marketing buzz wagon whether he truly believes in the benefits or not. A DAC brochure w/o the DSD check-box checked in the specs will likely get passed up by those consumers who are drunk on the DSD marketing Kool-Aid.

I've played with DSD and quite frankly I prefer hi-res PCM but the high-end marketeers will have you believe that DSD is a must. And now that so many people 'believe' it's a must, I guess it is if you want to sell DACs. ;-)

Jumping on the band wagon or offering his valued customers an upgrade path?, posted on October 15, 2014 at 09:32:56

Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001

Good for him and his customers, Id say.

You should have stopped by the Wavelength room and chatted with Gordon. The room sounded great (upgraded the mid driver in his speakers this year). The rebuilt DuKane Ionosphere plasma tweeter is still spectacular, even an old guy like me can easily appreciate the clarity of the highs that can only be produced by a plasma tweeter.

First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

Very good point about upgrade path..., posted on October 15, 2014 at 09:49:32
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 46302 Location: USA Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	...for those who want DSD w/o having to abandon a previous purchase. I missed RMAF this year. Wish I could have gone.

RE: DAC Sales hit the skids? Add a DSD Module!!, posted on October 15, 2014 at 10:03:29
Mercman Audiophile Posts: 6581 Location: So. CA Joined: October 20, 2002	The Quotient 1 Board is a performance upgrade from the older Denominator Board for the Crimson DAC. Being modular in design, this is an easy update. From what I understand, the ESS Sabre handles PCM and an FPGA handles the DSD playback. A similar upgrade will be available for the Cosecant at a lower price. I hope to get a Quotient for review.

RE: Jumping on the band wagon or offering his valued customers an upgrade path?, posted on October 15, 2014 at 10:05:09
Mercman Audiophile Posts: 6581 Location: So. CA Joined: October 20, 2002	A number of people told me that Gordon's room had outstanding sound.

RE: Very good point about upgrade path..., posted on October 15, 2014 at 10:06:47
Mercman Audiophile Posts: 6581 Location: So. CA Joined: October 20, 2002	"..for those who want DSD w/o having to abandon a previous purchase." Good point Abe. The modular design and easy updating adds value to a customer's purchase.

RE: Picking on Gordon ?, posted on October 15, 2014 at 10:18:18

Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012

I am going to have fun at his expense as he has been on this board dropping his pearls of wisdom about how Ethernet was not good enough for music, then he developed his own solution which sank like a stone never to be seen again. And by the way, Ethernet streaming has by far become the choice of most high end manufacturers.

Then he came on here and said DSD was a waste of time and that DoP is a shameful mess. I am curious to see if he has reinvented the wheel or if he is using good old DoP.

RE: DAC Sales hit the skids? Add a DSD Module!!, posted on October 15, 2014 at 10:19:52
Sprezza Tura Audiophile Posts: 4585 Location: New York City Joined: August 24, 2012	I look forward to your impressions. Do you have any technical data about his DSD solution?

RE: Jumping on the band wagon or offering his valued customers an upgrade path?, posted on October 15, 2014 at 10:21:58
Sprezza Tura Audiophile Posts: 4585 Location: New York City Joined: August 24, 2012	...which is why when I hear all sorts of excuses made in show reports for very expensive systems that sounded like ass I have no patience for it. The room, the power, the air conditioning, blah blah. Mr. Rankin, and other smart exhibitors know how to take the time and set up properly. No more apologies for know nothings who can't exhibit well at shows.

RE: Very good point about upgrade path..., posted on October 15, 2014 at 10:24:38

Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012

..in other words, there was no market for Mr Rankin to develop a new DAC with DSD capability because I can be fairly certain his customer base is pretty loyal and static.

I also find in interesting that he called DoP way too complicated and klugey yet that is how I feel about an outboard box.

RE: DAC Sales hit the skids? Add a DSD Module!!, posted on October 15, 2014 at 10:26:46
Mercman Audiophile Posts: 6581 Location: So. CA Joined: October 20, 2002	"Do you have any technical data about his DSD solution?" Not yet.

Oh, yes, I am betting he has re-invented the wheel ...., posted on October 15, 2014 at 10:30:19
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com Audiophile Posts: 3040 Location: Atlanta Joined: December 15, 2003	Gang. (gag)

RE: Very good point about upgrade path..., posted on October 15, 2014 at 10:34:10

Mercman
Audiophile

Posts: 6581
Location: So. CA
Joined: October 20, 2002

MSB Technology announced a new USB module for the Analog DAC that is Quad DSD. This is a more expensive upgrade from the standard USB module.

The new module will support direct DSD ( ASIO ) playback in Windows; no DoP. The price is $1595. I also hope to get one of these for reviewing as well.

The upgrade path makes Gordon's DACs good investments.

There are at least two, posted on October 15, 2014 at 11:10:55
fmak Audiophile Posts: 13158 Location: Kent Joined: June 1, 2002	designers who post here and who are anti DSD to boot. Now both design/market 'wonderful' dsd capable dacs. I'd be more convinced by designers with open minds

Open minds...., posted on October 15, 2014 at 11:18:40
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 46302 Location: USA Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	There are at least two designers who post here and who are anti DSD to boot. Now both design/market 'wonderful' dsd capable dacs. I'd be more convinced by designers with open minds." Doesn't this show that they have 'open minds'? Open to change.

RE: Open minds....No, open to business pressure, posted on October 15, 2014 at 11:38:21
fmak Audiophile Posts: 13158 Location: Kent Joined: June 1, 2002	and not design principles or their anti dsd convictions which they have expressed here.

RE: Open minds....No, open to business pressure, posted on October 15, 2014 at 11:47:05
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 46302 Location: USA Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	This isn't that much different than your anti-fan convictions and recent about face and open mind to incorporate a fan in your audio PC. No?

RE: Open minds....No, open to business pressure, posted on October 15, 2014 at 11:55:39
fmak Audiophile Posts: 13158 Location: Kent Joined: June 1, 2002	what a ludicrous remark!. There is no correlation between the two subjects and I am not a designer.

They were certainly correct...., posted on October 15, 2014 at 12:05:14
Ivan303 Audiophile Posts: 48887 Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM Joined: February 26, 2001	And I do like those Vaughn speakers with the plasma tweeters. First they came for the dumb-asses And I did not speak out Because I was not a dumb-ass

RE: There are at least two, posted on October 15, 2014 at 12:06:03

Mercman
Audiophile

Posts: 6581
Location: So. CA
Joined: October 20, 2002

I see it differently Fred.

I don't think Gordon was anti DSD, but had valid reasons for not liking the DoP standard.

RE: Open minds.... open to change, posted on October 15, 2014 at 12:48:16
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 46302 Location: USA Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	Since you touched upon the topic of 'open minds', I simply provided an example that you yourself have experienced and would understand. That is, opening your mind and being receptive to the use of fans in your PC after years of firmly held belief that they are absolutely detrimental to quality sonics. Like you, some designers have 'open minds' and are willing to change. They are to be commended.

Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 15, 2014 at 12:50:16

Thorsten
Manufacturer

Posts: 4209
Location: Somewhere nice on planet dirt
Joined: September 25, 1999

Bargain Alert.

For $1300 you can add a "network Streamer" to your HiFi, which does not do DSD at all, has no USB connection to the DAC, uses SPDIF only (read jitter central on 99 out of 100 DAC's out there), requires you to buy an iPad or aPad to control it and a NAS to hold the data.

Considering that the hardware in the streamer is low grade enough no self respecting 2014 cellphone would employ it and considering it is based on generic computer/cellphone chips this must be a huge bargain.

Then again, 399 + 5 USD buys you a touchscreen equipped cellphone that can stream DSD-512 and PCM-768 from local SD Card storage to any USB DAC so equipped and can stream up to 500MbPS (enough in theory for DSD512) plus needed software and it would even be battery powered.

Or you could get a Touchscreen equipped 14" Ultrabook of last years generation for that money and add software.

People sitting in glasshouses and all that...

Thor

At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to intolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?

RE: Open minds....No, open to business pressure, posted on October 15, 2014 at 12:55:56
Sprezza Tura Audiophile Posts: 4585 Location: New York City Joined: August 24, 2012	Of course, your point is valid IMO.

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 15, 2014 at 13:02:36

Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012

Please have a CLUE about the market before you post this stuff.

-SOtM Mini Server: USB Output, DSD, connects to any networked device or computer. $449.

Bryston BDP1/2, and BDP-USB: USB Outputs, DSD, local file playback or ethernet. $1800 and up

Auralic Aries: USB output, DSD, etc, $999.

Simaudio MiND: AES/EBU, DSD (to devices that decode DSD via non USB connections)

What don't you get? NOBODY who givea a darn about sonics WANTS a screen. Tablet control is MUCH preferred.

Just stick to DACs.

At many more units from Sonore, Aurender, etc etc.

RE: There are at least two, posted on October 15, 2014 at 13:04:01
Sprezza Tura Audiophile Posts: 4585 Location: New York City Joined: August 24, 2012	..then let's see what he uses on this outboard unit.

RE: There are at least two, posted on October 15, 2014 at 13:05:17
Mercman Audiophile Posts: 6581 Location: So. CA Joined: October 20, 2002	DoP :)

RE: There are at least two, posted on October 15, 2014 at 13:08:40
Sprezza Tura Audiophile Posts: 4585 Location: New York City Joined: August 24, 2012	Lol...if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

RE: Picking on Gordon ?, posted on October 15, 2014 at 13:14:57

Thorsten
Manufacturer

Posts: 4209
Location: Somewhere nice on planet dirt
Joined: September 25, 1999

Hi,

> And by the way, Ethernet streaming has by far become the choice of
> most high end manufacturers.

As someone else said that "there are only 5 high streamers" seems acording to you there are only 5 high end makers.

And of these 5, 3 seem to use the same cellphone CPU/modified Android/bought in module/software solutions and the other two use a cellphone CPU on their own PCB plus modified android OS.

There may be more than 5 of course and not all of them may be cellphones in camouflage. MAY.

> Then he came on here and said DSD was a waste of time and that
> DoP is a shameful mess.

If the software that is worth playing back exists, not allowing customers to do so directly, if the implementation is easy enough and gives better results than multiple conversions would not serve customers. They should be able to play what they want to play and in the best possible quality.

Nowadays substantial catalogues of music can be obtained in DSD and often the DSD transfers sound better than the CD masters, not because DSD is inherently better, but because they were edited/messed with less. In this case even I will select the DSD version.

But, alas, DSD is a poor choice of audio system (next to any viable alternative avilable in current technology) but it can come close to matching CD and DoP is a worse mess than he makes out (we are still trying to fix it so it really works properly - we means the industry - on both the computer software side and in hardware), compared to ASIO 2.2 (which has it's own challenges).

And if I can only have DoP availble and if the DSD master is better than the CD or PCM one, I will work with I have got.

Does not mean I'd not rather have a transfer from the original masters (or mike feed) done in 24/176.4 on a Pacific Microsonic Model 2 without any "production", but I ain't got it and so that is that.

It's about (enjoying) the music...

Thor

At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to intolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?

RE: Picking on Gordon ?, posted on October 15, 2014 at 13:18:55
Sprezza Tura Audiophile Posts: 4585 Location: New York City Joined: August 24, 2012	There are far more than 5 "high end" streamers. Not even close. And that number approaches a hundred if you count streamers that don't do higher than 96 Khz. Substantial catalogs in DSD? Where?

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 15, 2014 at 13:55:16

Thorsten
Manufacturer

Posts: 4209
Location: Somewhere nice on planet dirt
Joined: September 25, 1999

Hi,

> Please have a CLUE about the market before you post this stuff.

I do.

> -SOtM Mini Server: USB Output, DSD, connects to any networked
> device or computer. $449.

Yes, I like this one fine. Fair pricing too.

But it still needs a NAS and a control device. Add them to the bill.

And it still has to deal with networking overheads.

Might still be tempted to use an old leftover cellphone or laptop instead, as I already have them, so they are "free".

In fact, I do, wherever sound quality is of little concern (never would use network streaming anywhere near where it mattered, but fine for background music).

> What don't you get? NOBODY who givea a darn about sonics WANTS
> a screen. Tablet control is MUCH preferred.

Why is tablet control preferred?

Is it because with a tablet you MUST have Wifi on while using an IR remote controled device with it's own screen does not require the use of Wifi or even a network connection and so that solution must be bad?

MY experience is that anything source with Wifi on is game over for sound quality. Just forget it.

Battery powerd cell phones may be an exceptions, but this one is so new, we are still getting handles on what it can and cannot do.

Ethernet wired is also far from great. I only ever use hardwired networks for audio, if I am listening to the music (even background music). Local HDD (ESATA or USB3) much preferred.

And I turn hardwired networks off for serious listening.

Due to the way general purpose OS's work on the network side, running audio from a NAS and controlling it from a Tablet is a safe way of downgrading SQ.

That goes no matter what sort of computer is used (and even if that computer is called "Streamer" or "Blue Ray Player" and not "Mac Mini" or �ltrabook").

Sure, it is convenient though and looks like it keeps the dreaded computer out of the listening room to anyone naive enough.

But at what (s0n1c) c0$t?.

> At many more units from Sonore, Aurender, etc etc.

Yes, there is a flood of streamers. That does not mean they are viable solution in the market.

Are they better than a dedicated optimised computer without Wifi or network based remote control, without pulling data from remote sources via network?

Good question.

Over here, I have not come across one that is, but I mostly evaluate platforms and not specific products.

This may change or not. Time will tell.

For now most streamers I have seen have little to commend them over generic commodity computer hardware, because that is precise what they use and implement with few if any material hardware changes over the commodity options.

Just open them up, look at the IC used and then look up the datasheets and see how much the implementations diverge from the datasheet.

Rest assured, if sales of things become material enough to be worth persuing, you will see one from my direction in 2-3 month (maybe less - we are constantly evaluting the state of the art - me mom, she raise herself no fool).

For now, not worth the effort, based on sales potential.

Again, this may change, just like it did with other things.

Who knows, if I put some effort in it may even end up decent. Then again, if sound quality is the main concern I suspect something like John Brown's SD card player beats anything I know, I intend to get one of them days, as stalking horse. It is just SO darn impractical.

So I may be more tempted to work out the usability kinks out of concepts like that, rather then make another generic "me too streamer" based on cellphone CPU's and OS's that lags behind most PC's correctly implemented or even a Raspberry Pi with an SD Card and wired HID remote (and no network).

Thor

At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to intolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?

RE: Picking on Gordon ?, posted on October 15, 2014 at 13:57:43
Thorsten Manufacturer Posts: 4209 Location: Somewhere nice on planet dirt Joined: September 25, 1999	Hi, > Substantial catalogs in DSD? Where? British Telecom. Or something with the same intials. To stay legal, just buy the SACD and download the Rips. Thor At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to intolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?

RE: Picking on Gordon ?, posted on October 15, 2014 at 16:01:14
Sprezza Tura Audiophile Posts: 4585 Location: New York City Joined: August 24, 2012	SACD rips on torrent sites are beyond most folks here. First, there is no way to know if these are error free, they are big files, and of questionable origin to say the least. I was referring to legal, for sale DSD downloads, of which there are a total of 300 on Acoustic Sounds. It was the biggest hype and snow job perpetrated by the audio press.

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 15, 2014 at 16:09:51

Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012

First, what networking overhead? Why do you need a NAS? The Mac Mini which I used for ripping, tagging, downloading, and managing my music library with 2 3TB drives attached IS my NAS. And it is nowhere near my systems.

In the 5+ years I have been on a network architecture I have never, NOT ONCE, EVER had to trouble shoot. When I test new streamers it is simply a matter of unplugging the Ethernet cable and plugging it back in. Then connecting out to the DAC, either with USB, or AES/EBU.

Never ONCE had to worry about playback software, O/S, computer isolation, or any of the nonsense folks here immerse them selves in,

The WiFi has utterly no relationship to the music. The tablet control point uses WiFi to browse the library. THAT IS IT. Some of my streamers do NOT even HAVE WiFi on board like the Bryston.

The VERY BEST part? I stream ONE SET of files to three full systems, with Naim, Bryston, and Simaudio streamers, with a fourth in the works.

You are painting a LOT of inaccurate pictures here. Continuously. And stubbornly.

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 15, 2014 at 16:27:51

Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012

To pinpoint a couple of your distortions..where you claim the NAS and control devices are additional expenses...

Nonsense.

I use the same iPad I use for everything else. Eh, one down.

A NAS is absolutely not needed, one can use their home computer running Jriver or any number of DLNA compliant programs. So the SAME hard drives you rip and download to feed your streamers. Those hard drives are there regardless. Second down, next...

And the cherry on top is that my cost for server and playback software...? ZERO.

I use XLD to rip, and MiniMServer to talk the the streamers. FREEWARE.

Ready for your spin, now that we have debunked all the fabricated obstacles you have claimed.

If you had researched for even five minutes all the current products from Marantz, Sonore, Pro-Ject, or even Cambridge Audio you may have been more up to date.

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 15, 2014 at 16:48:35

Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007

I think the point is that the mere presence of a powered up computer, especially if it is on wi-fi, is probably degrading sound quality. It doesn't matter if the computer is doing anything with audio. If it's just running it is creating RFI/EMI, as can easily be demonstrated by using an AM radio. By computer I mean a device that contains a processor of some form. Today this may include cable boxes, TVs, refrigerators, dishwashers, washing machines, furnaces, etc...

The cure for this is to go to the fuse box and turn off all unnecessary circuits. If you have neighbors, go to the main distributor box and pull their main breaker, etc... You get the idea. Just a suggestion, you might find it not so well received.. I'm not saying that I've done it, but then I'm not saying that I haven't done it, either... :-)

Remember, every wire is an antenna. If it's connected to a noisy computer it's a transmitting antenna. If it's connected to an audio product it's a receiving antenna. Even something as rearranging the way two cables cross so they cross at 90 degrees rather than running parallel may make a difference. These differences may or may not be large, but if you are swapping components for evaluation purposes and do not take these factors into consideration you may be making incorrect decisions that seem good today but not next week.

Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 15, 2014 at 17:15:10

Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012

Who said anything about a computer in the vicinity running WiFi?

Folks with streamers have gone that route to GET RID of the computer in the listening room.

In my case, the computer that manages and serves my files, via attached drives is on ethernet only.

A general wifi network is required for phone or tablet control. That stays in the listening position. a good 10 feet away. Let's not get into phantom gremlins.

RE: Picking on Gordon ?, posted on October 15, 2014 at 17:41:04
chopper87@aol.com Audiophile Posts: 942 Joined: September 2, 2001	I really did not and still do not care one way or another about DSD. However, I happen to own two DSD capable DACS, an Ayre QB9 DSD and an Auralic Vega DAC. I have found MANY High Resolution and DSD download purchases to be sonically WAAAAY Overrated at best. I have found NO area of sonic performance where DSD outperforms High Res digital. Lance A.

RE: Oh, yes, I am betting he has re-invented the wheel ...., posted on October 15, 2014 at 17:54:04
Sprezza Tura Audiophile Posts: 4585 Location: New York City Joined: August 24, 2012	Lol...

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 15, 2014 at 19:12:38

Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000

Just to put a bit of reality to the pretty face you are so impressed with.

Can you please tell me what is so audiophile about this picture?

Do you really think this would that much better that a tablet???

RE: DAC Sales hit the skids? Add a DSD Module!!, posted on October 15, 2014 at 19:16:27

audioengr
Manufacturer

Posts: 6017
Location: Oregon
Joined: April 12, 2001

DSD is not a panacea. There is a lot of mediocre sounding DSD stuff out there. More important to have performance. Just like picking a D/A chip and believing that any DAC with that chip in it will sound good. In your dreams.

The problem is that the DSD checkbox must be checked or many customers will not even consider the DAC. Its chasing the technology treadmill. How many people had to have an iPhone 6 ? Did they really need it?

Steve N.

But the real question is...., posted on October 15, 2014 at 19:23:27
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 46302 Location: USA Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	How do you like the Ayre QB9 compared to your Auralic Vega? :-) Just curious.

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 15, 2014 at 19:39:49

AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46302
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
Since: February 2, 2002

Interesting, an off the shelf commodity mini-PCIe wifi card.

WLE350NX 7A wifi card

RE: DAC Sales hit the skids? Add a DSD Module!!, posted on October 15, 2014 at 19:49:11
Sprezza Tura Audiophile Posts: 4585 Location: New York City Joined: August 24, 2012	There is nothing you said here I disagree with. Actually, very accurate.

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 15, 2014 at 19:53:20

Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012

Let's clarify...I have never used the Auralic Aries.

I have only talked about it as a conceptual product. Based on its use of Femto clocks, its ability to stream DSD via network and other high grade solutions du jour, it looks interesting. I have no idea if it is a great product.

FYI, I have very much cooled on the Aries because I am not crazy about the form factor, and the fact the company has sent out samples that are not quite ready for prime time.

So to answer your question, I have no idea if it is better or worse.

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 15, 2014 at 21:11:56
Bob_C Audiophile Posts: 2667 Location: NY Joined: July 31, 2000	"So to answer your question, I have no idea if it is better or worse." But you are sure streamers are the way to the promised land??? And not just like any other computer but dressed up is an expensive outfit...

RE: There are at least two-DoP, posted on October 15, 2014 at 22:02:26
fmak Audiophile Posts: 13158 Location: Kent Joined: June 1, 2002	Ah, the not invented here syndrome since it wasn't in his 'code' originally. His anti dsd posts here are proof. H e was also anti ESS9018 here.

Gordon picks on himself, posted on October 15, 2014 at 22:05:47
fmak Audiophile Posts: 13158 Location: Kent Joined: June 1, 2002	nt

technology treadmill, posted on October 15, 2014 at 22:20:46
fmak Audiophile Posts: 13158 Location: Kent Joined: June 1, 2002	all high end audio does this. What about PCM thru Russian valves and 'super' filters and power supplies?

stream DSD-512 and PCM-768 from local SD Card storage, posted on October 15, 2014 at 22:25:15
fmak Audiophile Posts: 13158 Location: Kent Joined: June 1, 2002	What music lover wants to do this? This is proof that technology and price push ignore human convenience and ergonomics. What about the price of a large SD card? There are so many 'fakes' which don't work properly that I would not buy a large capacity expensive one with the 'ultimate' type of label.

RE: Open minds.... open to change, posted on October 15, 2014 at 22:28:30
fmak Audiophile Posts: 13158 Location: Kent Joined: June 1, 2002	Your example is another one of twisting other's posts and another example of your inability to comprehend what had been said.

MANY High Resolution and DSD download purchases, posted on October 16, 2014 at 00:19:55
fmak Audiophile Posts: 13158 Location: Kent Joined: June 1, 2002	disappointing? Yes, these are generally doctored resamplers or remasters. One has to take good care over provenance and avoid some 'popular' download sites that basically make money thru top slicing files from others.

RE: DAC Sales hit the skids? Add a DSD Module!!, posted on October 16, 2014 at 07:24:30

b.l.zeebub
Audiophile

Posts: 9361
Location: 52deg 28'N,1deg56'W
Joined: April 17, 2006

The problem with DSD is that you can't do anything to the signal other than record and replay it.

So during production whenever eq or any other treatment is used the signal will be converted to PCM and back again to DSD. The operator may not even be aware of this as this tends to happen inside the DAW on the fly.
This can and does result in an awful lot converting before it reaches the consumer.
Not something I'm a great fan of.

RE: Open minds.... open to change, posted on October 16, 2014 at 08:45:35
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 46302 Location: USA Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	Whatever you say Fred, but it's pretty obvious to me and others.

DSD ( ASIO ) playback in Windows, posted on October 16, 2014 at 10:13:03
fmak Audiophile Posts: 13158 Location: Kent Joined: June 1, 2002	But then there are ASIOs and ASIOs; it all depends just as there are DoPs and DoPs.

Not a valid or good point at all, posted on October 16, 2014 at 10:19:20
fmak Audiophile Posts: 13158 Location: Kent Joined: June 1, 2002	There are other dsd capable usb to I2S/spdif boxes that are much cheaper and probably just as good or even better.

RE: Very good point about upgrade path..., posted on October 16, 2014 at 10:27:31

Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012

Let's play your game to see how absurd this point of view is.

This an "overpriced" module in a nice case that allows you to decode 1 bit audio. Would you pay $1500 to be able to decode just 192 Khz????

You can buy many entirely capable full DACs for this price.

Fanboydom does really blind folks.

RE: Not a valid or good point at all, posted on October 16, 2014 at 10:28:27
Sprezza Tura Audiophile Posts: 4585 Location: New York City Joined: August 24, 2012	More than likely true. Almost as strange as BADA's $1600 outboard USB "solution".

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 16, 2014 at 12:29:06

Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007

People use tablets with wi-fi to control streamers. They use them to control other things as well. If the streamer is dumb and depends upon some other computer for control then that computer may need to be controlled by wi-fi.

A streamer is just as much a computer as any other computer, according to the things that it can do to your audio equipment. If the streamer is in your audio room and/or connected to the rest of your audio stack it can degrade the sound. The test for this is to listen to an analog source with the streamer in various situations:

1. unplugged from AC and from preamp
2. plugged into AC but switched off and unplugged from preamp
3. plugged into AC and switched on, connected to file source, but unplugged from preamp,

etc.. Depending on what you hear, other tests will be appropriate.

The reason why I suggested using an analog source is because even an ordinary CD player contains a computer.

Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 16, 2014 at 12:38:43
Sprezza Tura Audiophile Posts: 4585 Location: New York City Joined: August 24, 2012	"If the streamer is dumb and depends upon some other computer for control then that computer may need to be controlled by wi-fi." I have no idea what the above means. My Mac Mini is on Ethernet. My streamer is on Ethernet. The tablet is on WiFi. Never the twain shall meet.

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 16, 2014 at 12:48:37

Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000

"Interesting, an off the shelf commodity mini-PCIe wifi card."

Yes and looking further most look pretty run of the mill for something "audiophile"

The board has 4 switching converters and open inductors,which would are bound radiate lots of noise. Nothing special looking, no real filtering to reduce noise.

TROLL ALERT: is it possible to cram more mis-info into 1 post?, posted on October 16, 2014 at 12:52:35
Sordidman Audiophile Posts: 13665 Location: San Francisco Joined: May 14, 2001	Set up them bowling pins so you can knock them down there captain.... LOL "Asylums with doors open wide, Where people had paid to see inside, For entertainment they watch his body twist Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

No video, different processor, no HID, no PCI bus, no fan, posted on October 16, 2014 at 13:00:26
Sordidman Audiophile Posts: 13665 Location: San Francisco Joined: May 14, 2001	better power supply, higher quality connectors: for a start.... "Asylums with doors open wide, Where people had paid to see inside, For entertainment they watch his body twist Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

RE: No video, different processor, no HID, no PCI bus, no fan, posted on October 16, 2014 at 13:04:20

Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012

You would have to try real hard to top it....

Alas, that is what you get when knowledgeable members of the community rely on non-experience, and no real understanding of a particular market.

I have the SOtM mini server running right now, with USB out, streaming 44.1 khz to DSD, connected via Ethernet (there is no wifi on SOtM products) controlling the library with an iPad Air.

The sound is stellar.

RE: No video, different processor, no HID, no PCI bus, no fan, posted on October 16, 2014 at 13:04:41
Bob_C Audiophile Posts: 2667 Location: NY Joined: July 31, 2000	"better power supply, " Not even close. Really... look a couple of posts below...

He owns 3, and has direct experience with 5 , posted on October 16, 2014 at 13:04:43

Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001

""But you are sure streamers are the way to the promised land???""

Why step so far outside reason, and what he wrote? For the above?

Kind of makes me wonder what you're preaching on your end.

It's been shown, through direct evidence that the two are in no way "just like" each other.

"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

"I mostly evaluate platforms and not specific products.", posted on October 16, 2014 at 13:09:31
Sordidman Audiophile Posts: 13665 Location: San Francisco Joined: May 14, 2001	A big mistake on your part, - IMO. "Asylums with doors open wide, Where people had paid to see inside, For entertainment they watch his body twist Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

RE: "I mostly evaluate platforms and not specific products.", posted on October 16, 2014 at 13:11:20
Sprezza Tura Audiophile Posts: 4585 Location: New York City Joined: August 24, 2012	Wanna take bets on an iFi network streamer/file payer for 2015?

OK, easy to concede that one & still have big diffs -t, posted on October 16, 2014 at 13:15:46
Sordidman Audiophile Posts: 13665 Location: San Francisco Joined: May 14, 2001	. "Asylums with doors open wide, Where people had paid to see inside, For entertainment they watch his body twist Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

RE: OK, easy to concede that one & still have big diffs -t, posted on October 16, 2014 at 13:23:34
Bob_C Audiophile Posts: 2667 Location: NY Joined: July 31, 2000	What are the big differences? Seriously... To be fair most of these things are pretty much standard fare on the digital side. To think differently is foolish... My music players, and many others guys are much more trick than many commercial units.

RE: OK, easy to concede that one & still have big diffs -t, posted on October 16, 2014 at 13:52:59
Sprezza Tura Audiophile Posts: 4585 Location: New York City Joined: August 24, 2012	You are just becoming repetitive. And since you don't list your system, and have not heard the products under discussion,your insights are, truth be told, of no interest. Any one can link photos and become an armchair reverse engineer.

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 16, 2014 at 13:53:32
Tony Lauck Audiophile Posts: 13629 Location: Vermont Joined: November 12, 2007	How do you control what music plays on your streamer and how do you start/pause/stop playback? Tony Lauck "Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 16, 2014 at 13:57:59

Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012

With the an iPad. Air. As long as your streamer and your NAS, or computer with files is attached to the network, even with just Ethernet, the control apps talk to your router and send the commands.

My Mac Mini has WiFi deactivated. as does my streamer.

I am wondering how limited your knowledge of these products are.

I had the set up for years with a Squeezebox Touch. Never used WiFi to stream the files, but controlled playback with a phone.

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 16, 2014 at 14:13:49

Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007

Yes, I know how components talk to each other and how the elements of computing can be distributed across a network. I've been doing that since before 1980.

The Touch has a control panel. That's what I meant by "smart". No need for it to talk to anything else except the server. Other devices don't work that way. For example the SOTM running Miksa's NAA software requires HQPlayer running on a PC to create playlists and start/stop/pause playback.

How is your iPad air connected to your streamer? Where is it physically located with respect to your audio stack?

Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 16, 2014 at 14:29:59

Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012

I am still puzzled by your questions.

The iPad air is NOT connected to my streamer. It stays 10 feet away at the listening chair.

It actually "talks" to MiniMstreamer,installed on my Mac Mini , 2 rooms away, which serves the files to streamer, via a router, 150 feet away from all my systems. EVERYTHING is hard wired. The only devices on WiFi in my house are iPads, and occasionally, laptops for work purposes.

I have the SOtM, and all my streamers set up for DLNA.

The point I have been trying to make, and others too, is that these headless solutions are by far the better way to go.

Perhaps this might help:

SELECTABLE OUTPUT MODES
Mode #1 - SqueezeLite Output Mode - This mode works with any Logitech Media Server (LMS) and compatible controllers. This output supports true gapless playback for FLAC, ALAC, WAV, and AIFF. When used with Vortexbox 2.3 you can output PCM and DoD via USB. When used with LMS on your computer or your NAS you can output PCM via USB.

Mode #2 - AirPlay Output Mode - This is an AirPlay emulator that utilizes streams sent to it from a compatible player.

Mode #3 - MPD/DLNA Output Mode:

Mode #3a - DLNA Output Mode - This mode utilizes streams from DLNA servers and controllers. Playback has been enhanced and now uses MPD as the renderer. With JRiver, Linn Kinsky, Linn Kazoo, BubbleUPNP and AudioNet as controllers this mode supports true gapless playback for FLAC, ALAC, WAV, and AIFF. DSD/DoP output is supported via USB if your server supports DoP streaming.

Mode #3b - MPD Output Mode - This mode is intended to work with a Vortexbox based music server (Sonore, SOtM, W4S, and Vortexbox) on the home network. When this mode is selected it automatically locates the existing Vortexbox music server and mounts its storage drive for MPD to output PCM and DSD via USB. This mode supports true gapless playback for FLAC, ALAC, WAV, and AIFF.

Mode #4 - HQ Player NAA - This mode is intended to work with Signalyst's HQ Player running on your computer. Digital signal processing is performed by the HQ Player application. This output supports true gapless playback. The processed data is then asynchronously streamed over the network to the Network Audio Adapter (NAA) to output PCM or DSD via USB.

STANDARD FEATURES
The SOtM Mini Server supports gapless playback
The SOtM Mini Server supports PCM output via USB
The SOtM Mini Server supports DSD/DoP output via USB
The SOtM Mini Server supports internet radio and streaming radio services from LMS
The SOtM Mini Server is isolated from noise on the network
The SOtM Mini Server supports the following PCM sample rates: 44.1KHz, 48KHz, 88.2KHz, 96KHz, 176.4KHz, 192KHz, 352.8KHz and 384KHz
The SOtM Mini Server supports the following DSD rates: DSD64 and DSD128
The SOtM Mini Server plays AAC, AIFF, ALAC, FLAC, MP3, and WAV files from HTTP streams
The SOtM Mini Server is controlled via apps on your mobile device
The SOtM Mini Server is based on Sonic Orbiter that is open source (GPL 2)

look above Bob -t, posted on October 16, 2014 at 15:07:56
Sordidman Audiophile Posts: 13665 Location: San Francisco Joined: May 14, 2001	. "Asylums with doors open wide, Where people had paid to see inside, For entertainment they watch his body twist Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

RE: OK, easy to concede that one & still have big diffs -t, posted on October 16, 2014 at 15:20:13
Bob_C Audiophile Posts: 2667 Location: NY Joined: July 31, 2000	You are totally hilarious, or maybe just bored. I have mention what I use often enough... You question Steve why he posts about a COMPUTER OS in the COMPUTER AUDIO FORM... And you post about streamers which you say are not computers in the computer audio forum!!!

RE: OK, easy to concede that one & still have big diffs -t, posted on October 16, 2014 at 15:26:55

Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012

You are being idiotic now.

A)I NEVER said streamers or file players were NOT computers. They ARE computers..PURPOSE built for audio. I define "computer" as the word is commonly used as a finished product with either Windows or MAC O/S preloaded with keyboards, various non audio related ports, that can run a variety of programs, that can be purchased at any commodity store. This has been clear from the beginning.

B)Even if one clams that in no way shape or form streamers or file players are not even remotely computers, they play computer files, stored on hard drives, which are attached to a computer or are stored in a bay in a NAS running software. That IS a computer.

Your constant attempts to play gotcha and your I'm just a bit smarter than everyone else game is tiresome.

RE: He owns 3, and has direct experience with 5 , posted on October 16, 2014 at 16:50:39
Bob_C Audiophile Posts: 2667 Location: NY Joined: July 31, 2000	"Why step so far outside reason, and what he wrote? For the above?" Because I feel some are not genuinely interested in a reasonably conversation. So what's the point...

RE: OK, easy to concede that one & still have big diffs -t, posted on October 16, 2014 at 17:02:24

Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000

"I define "computer" as the word is commonly used as a finished product with either Windows or MAC O/S preloaded with keyboards, various non audio related ports, that can run a variety of programs, that can be purchased at any commodity store. "

You define... Great so now you can have your opinion that these non computer computers are so different from the computer computers when used for audio. Most everyone will understand that they are really not. My computer hardware is just as, or more so purpose built that what is in you box... My OS and player software IMO is much better. Maybe you do not fully understanding all of what this conversation entails...fine. You are entitled to your myopic opinion.

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 16, 2014 at 17:10:06
Bob_C Audiophile Posts: 2667 Location: NY Joined: July 31, 2000	" but controlled playback with a phone. "

RE: OK, easy to concede that one & still have big diffs -t, posted on October 16, 2014 at 17:25:25
Sprezza Tura Audiophile Posts: 4585 Location: New York City Joined: August 24, 2012	Your posts are circular and never resolving. Like many here, you are far, far more interested in the mechanism than the end result. Translation: you are far more into computers and name checking mother boards and and computer hardware than you are audio. Have fun.

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 16, 2014 at 17:28:08
Tony Lauck Audiophile Posts: 13629 Location: Vermont Joined: November 12, 2007	You have an Ethernet cable up to your iPad Mini and to your stream? Shielded? Cat 5, 6 or 7? Tony Lauck "Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 16, 2014 at 17:31:09

Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012

Tony....do you not understand the iPad simply sends commands to the server software which controls playback on the streamer?

Why do you think the iPad or any control device has some direct connection to the streamer. They do not directly communicate in any way.

I'm beside myself.

In NO way does WiFi touch my audio files. My NAS (computer with attached drives) is wired with CAT7, my streamers are wired with CAT7. The control point (tablet/phone) is on WiFi. Since everything is on the same network, the iPad is nothing but a remote control, but it DOES not send direct commands to the streamer, nor does it send it files to play.

RE: OK, easy to concede that one & still have big diffs -t, posted on October 16, 2014 at 17:55:08
Bob_C Audiophile Posts: 2667 Location: NY Joined: July 31, 2000	"Like many here, you are far, far more interested in the mechanism than the end result." The mechanism and the application of it brings you to the end result.

RE: OK, easy to concede that one & still have big diffs -t, posted on October 16, 2014 at 17:57:21
Sprezza Tura Audiophile Posts: 4585 Location: New York City Joined: August 24, 2012	Ring around the Rosey Pocket full of Posey... You are now on permanent ignore.

RE: OK, easy to concede that one & still have big diffs -t, posted on October 16, 2014 at 18:00:17
Bob_C Audiophile Posts: 2667 Location: NY Joined: July 31, 2000	Sorry the thought process is too complex for you...

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 16, 2014 at 18:20:28

Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000

Tony I do not think he understands how a network really works. His streamer is on the network it is not an endpoint as you mentioned can be done with HQplayer, LMS, or with a JPlay two computer setup.

regards
Bob

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 16, 2014 at 18:24:31

Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012

UPnP (Universal Plug "n" Play) is a set of protocols that allows a streamer Center to access music files that are stored on a Network Attached Storage device (NAS), or other UPnP compatible music server, to be quickly and easily selected and played.

Essentially the server announces its availability on your home Ethernet network that it can be uses as a renderer (playback device) for music stored on a UPnP-capable server. A control point device (iPad, iPhone, Android tablet, etc) is used to select the streamer as a renderer together with a NAS as a server. The control point device requires an app like PlugPlayer or other control point software for browsing and playlist control.

------------------

Funny for not knowing about networks I have three systems being fed Redbook, 96 Khz, 192 Khz, and DSD music files along with metadata with one set of hard drives.

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 16, 2014 at 18:28:03

Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012

Funny, I have PCM files up to 192 Khz and DSD files streaming to three separate systems with one set of hard drives. No dropouts, stuttering, or MIA devices. EVER.

I thought the way UPnP works is common knowledge.

I don't want to know anything. I just want my music. And I have it in spades.

As I said, you are concerned with the nuts and bolts far more than the enjoyment.

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 16, 2014 at 18:29:16

Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007

Thank you for answering my question.

The control device may still affect the sound quality of your audio system. It may do so through its direct radiation, through its power connections (if not on battery) or through its Ethernet cables (even if cat 7 shielded). The test for this is to move the control device out of the room, say right next to the computer that it is controlling. Alternatively, if your Ethernet cable is long enough, you can try moving the control device right next to the audio stack and see what effect this has.

It is not a question of "touching files". The problem is not the "touching" of bits that makes them somehow polluted. The problem comes from pervasive noise from digital circuitry polluting sensitive analog components. It doesn't really matter if a device "touches" the bits or not, provided they are just digital data. On the other hand, if a device "touches" an SPDIF signal or any other "digital" signal that contains audio timing information it is touching more than just the bits.

It is not a matter of theorizing how, or how not, some piece of digital gear may degrade sound quality. It is a matter of conducting listening tests to see what matters and what does not in a particular system.

Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 16, 2014 at 18:32:57
Bob_C Audiophile Posts: 2667 Location: NY Joined: July 31, 2000	"I don't want to know anything." OK :)

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 16, 2014 at 18:33:10

Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012

Tony, I am here to enjoy my life. I simply cannot be bothered with phantom gremlins, real or imagined.

Air conditioning may degrade the sound but I am not going to sit in a puddle of sweat to enjoy music.

I am going to have my iPad at my listening position at all times unless I am listening to a full album then I put it somewhere else simply because I don't want to knock it over.

BTW, I said I was beside myself because I know you are far more erudite than myself....no sarcasm there.

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 16, 2014 at 18:46:50

Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007

"Funny for not knowing about networks I have three systems being fed Redbook, 96 Khz, 192 Khz, and DSD music files along with metadata with one set of hard drives."

Making a bunch of computers apparently work together is not the same thing as understanding in detail how they actually work or being able to diagnose which device is malfunctioning when they fail to work. These taska include the ability to understand the specifications on which the network is based.

And here, I'm just talking in the "bits are bits" sense. If you start going beyond this mid-fi level of sound quality then you are in an even more difficult world which no one has yet mastered.

Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 16, 2014 at 18:59:59
Sprezza Tura Audiophile Posts: 4585 Location: New York City Joined: August 24, 2012	I'm in total agreement with you. You would be surprised, and I sweat it is true, I know high level IT managers that can't figure out how to get music files on their computers to their stereos via network.

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 16, 2014 at 19:37:56
Bob_C Audiophile Posts: 2667 Location: NY Joined: July 31, 2000	"BTW, I said I was beside myself" Do you both take turns sitting in the sweet spot during your listing sessions? ;)

RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer, posted on October 16, 2014 at 20:16:09
Sprezza Tura Audiophile Posts: 4585 Location: New York City Joined: August 24, 2012	Nah, I hog it....his taste in music sucks,

Seems you manage fine to cram more into a subject line than I get in a whole post... , posted on October 17, 2014 at 02:04:11
Thorsten Manufacturer Posts: 4209 Location: Somewhere nice on planet dirt Joined: September 25, 1999	...But if you like to point where anything I wrote is factually incorrect, I'll happily stand to be corrected. But make sure you have YOUR facts straight, 'cause I sure darn well have my ones that way... Thor At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to intolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?

Yep that's correct, posted on October 17, 2014 at 05:57:05

Gordon Rankin
Manufacturer

Posts: 2928
Joined: June 9, 2000

Bozzo,

Sales down? I am designing for AudioQuest, Ayre, Aesthetix, Berkeley, Cary, MBL, Grace, Eversound.... and a ton of others. As of today we add 2 more Product of the Year for DAC technology that I either helped to design or designed completely, that brings it up to 34. Actually if add those numbers up my sales are up about 900%.

We did show Ethernet and WIFI at the show with our new AudioVia and StreamWerxs. The processor that we worked on for the last year is now in production and we will be production soon.

As for the $1500 that is the same price as the Denominator that is just PCM. So I really don't understand your frustration.

No Wait I know, just like Fred you have never heard anything of mine. You just like wasting people's time with unfounded comments.

Thanks,
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin

The gold plated connectors? -nt, posted on October 17, 2014 at 06:03:13
E-Stat Audiophile Posts: 37666 Joined: May 12, 2000 Contributor Since: April 5, 2002	.

RE: Yep that's correct, posted on October 17, 2014 at 06:04:10
Mercman Audiophile Posts: 6581 Location: So. CA Joined: October 20, 2002	There is a serious problem in this forum Gordon. It appears that the number of mean spirited posts that are essentially baseless are on the rise. Some people find it necessary to repeat their views over and over and mock other inmates that take another approach to this hobby. This is becoming an unpleasant place.

Page:

[ 1 ] [ 2 ] [ 3 ]

Computer Audio Asylum

DAC Sales hit the skids? Add a DSD Module!!

66.85.148.53