Computer Audio Asylum

Music servers and other computer based digital audio technologies.

Return to Computer Audio Asylum

Message Sort: Post Order or Asylum Reverse Threaded

laptop/DAC question

76.180.108.248
Posted on October 13, 2014 at 15:25:05
wayfarer
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: NYS
Joined: March 13, 2012
 Can I get a decent quality audio out of 4 yo Lenovo laptop and some budget to middle of the line DAC? No plans to mod the laptop and it's also used for web browsing. I am pretty sure that the USB out on that laptop is not of audiophile quality. Should I even attempt this or do I need to drop a considerable coin to get anywhere near CD quality playback, assuming CD player is not a complete junk and in the same, mid-fi, price range as the DAC? Thanks

Serge

 

Hide full thread outline!
    ...
RE: laptop/DAC question, posted on October 13, 2014 at 19:04:36
Goober58
 See if you can find a dealer that'll hook your laptop to a DAC up in their shop. Maybe they will let you try one in your own system if you are serious, or maybe they might just let you try one if they like you (either way they could ask you for a CC number before they give you a loaner). Or buy from an internet retailer that offers a 30 day return.

I'm not sure why the USB on your computer wouldn't work well* (others may know why) but if you find it to be the case there may be an audio plug in card compatible with your laptop that'll correct the problem. Maybe not. That's some research for you to do - unless someone around here has first hand experience to guide you.

I built a desktop and the motherboard I selected had a RealTek audio system built on board. Connecting the digital out (not USB) via a 30 ft. cable to a Cambridge Audio DACmagic ($300) quality digital downloads sound as good as a quality LP or CD.

It's at least a starting point.

*ie. be much better than the analog output.

 

RE: laptop/DAC question, posted on October 13, 2014 at 19:38:29
rbolaw
 I just had a similar issue. I wanted to turn my Dell laptop into my "music computer". The sound card was decent though perhaps not first rate, but the real problem was that there wasn't quite enough amplification for my 250 ohm headphones.
I bought an Audioquest Dragonfly version 1.2(list price $150, I got one with some cosmetic damage to outside box for $130).
Very good results.

 

RE: laptop/DAC question, posted on October 13, 2014 at 23:02:43
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23904
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 I think it depends on the DAC more than the computer, but I could be wrong. I use a Toshiba Satellite P775-57320 laptop with Windows 7 and my ripped CDs sound identical from the laptop as from my CD transport using the same DAC. I had an April Music Stello CDT100 transport and a Stello DA100 signature DAC with USB. I couldn't tell the difference at all. I've since ripped all my CDs to my hard drive and gotten rid of my transport entirely. If I ever need to play a CD, I either rip it to my computer or else use my DVD player. I use Foobar2000 streaming software, which is freeware and I use Exact Audio Copy (EAC) to rip CDs. EAC is also freeware. My advice would be to download Foobar2000 and EAC, and give it try.

Good luck,
John Elison

 

RE: laptop/DAC question, posted on October 14, 2014 at 00:03:35
Thorsten
Manufacturer

Posts: 4209
Location: Somewhere nice on planet dirt
Joined: September 25, 1999
 Hi,

I would say observe a few items and the answer is generally "yes". We have been demoing with such setups for the last 8 Years or so.

There are a few pitfalls:

1) Bloatware, CPU time thiefs etc. - a lot of computers are loaded with software that does stuff in the background. Depending how demanding is whatever you are playing back, this can cause trouble.

I find that it is best to have a clean installation of Windows with minimal extras (especially disable indexing), plus the playback software (and utility like dBPoweramp for ripping).

Whenever I repurpose my "last years laptop" (okay, it is usually 2-3 years ago laptop) for music I completely wipe the drive and install fresh.

If you cannot completely dedicate the machine to music playback, one way is to have a "dual boot" system, with a completely separate OS setup for Music.

2) Music Playback software - this is much better these days than in the days when we used Winamp with Ochatan ASIO Plugin and the remote control program that ran on windows phones (that was before the original apple iPhone - tempus fugit). Still do not use the Playback build into Windows or OSX (or Android, or iOS).

I do not want to be too specific, but I generally keep a copy of the free "J-River Music Juke Box Version 12" around. It is outdated, but free, is most of J-River for normal use and has the ASIO option (later versions delete this). I use that on the Music Laptop in the office. On my main livingroom machine I am running Mediaportal (Free AV and more software) with PureAudio Player Plugin.

Otherwise I have (and have at hand for use) J-River Media Centre (payware), AlbumPlayer (payware), Foobar 2K (freeware), HQPlayer (payware), Audacity (freeware) and for Mac Audirvana Plus. For Android I use USB Audio Player Pro and Neutron BTW and Onkyo HF Player and Hibiki for iOS. Others exist for the various platforms.

Generally less "bells and whistles" on the software are better. For Windows ASIO support is minimum and WASAPI exclusive support is nowadays expected. Both options bypass the Windows Sound system. For Mac make sure the playback software can adjust the Core Audio settings.

3) Watch out for ground loops and (radio Frequency) noise from the laptop power supply. There are number of option for mains filtering, I would suggest to have a dedicated mains filter that can deal well with noise from the computer that is used to isolate the computer (and related gear) from the rest of the system.

USB Cables can make a difference. Nowadays you can fibre-optic USB Cables, they can be very good. Other options to isolate noise from the computer side getting into the audio system exist, which may or may not give better results for less or more money than you spend on an optical cable.

4) DAC - make sure you have an asynchronous USB connection and a situation where this is of good quality. Asynchronous USB places the Clock directly in the DAC, where it belongs, in the same way this works with CD-Players and mostly never worked with SPDIF based DAC's. Such DAC's with a wide range of capabilities and sound quality can be had from 99 USD all the way to to tens of thousands of Bux. Listen for yourself before you buy or buy with "30 Days right to return".

I'd say the above gets you 95% of the way there.

Thor

At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to intolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?

 

RE: laptop/DAC question, posted on October 14, 2014 at 06:21:11
Dman
Audiophile

Posts: 7211
Location: Kansas
Joined: January 28, 2001
 Yes you can! As was mentioned before, the Audioquest Dragonfly version 1.2 is a great value and from my investigations, sounds really good too! I will be buying one for my "main" listening laptop as soon as funds permit.

BTW, I have two computers- My "main" listening computer currently is 5 year old HP laptop (simply for portability). I plug my headphones in and away I go.

The other is a no-name (self assembled) PC that is over ten years old (still running XP!) and I use that as my main/studio editing compy. Of course, no internet, antivirus or extraneous stuff running. I'm using an M-audio 24/96 card on it, and run the output to either the Analog Rig (see Inmate systems) or a custom built headphone amp and Senheiser headphones for tracking and/or late night listening...

Dman
Analog Junkie

 

RE: laptop/DAC question, posted on October 14, 2014 at 10:14:44
veritas1
Audiophile

Posts: 17
Location: Northwest US
Joined: February 16, 2004
 I use a Lenovo Z560 Laptop with a I3 chip and 8 gigs ram with a Playback Designs MPD3 and JRiver 19. There are a few utils that allow you to check for latency on your laptop or computer and several info forums to cut down latency if you are above the threshold...this system sounds great and plays with no glitches. Of course you don't have to use a Playbacks DAC but if it will play 2XDSD files and 192/24 without latency issues it will play anything...

 

RE: laptop/DAC question, posted on October 14, 2014 at 12:59:36
Mike B.
Audiophile

Posts: 26359
Location: OR
Joined: September 27, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 1, 1999
 Hello T. Does anyone offer a minimalist operating system that could be partitioned on a windows machine?

 

agree with Mr. Elison, posted on October 14, 2014 at 17:27:15
G Squared
Audiophile

Posts: 8491
Location: Washington, DC Metro Area
Joined: November 16, 2004
Contributor
  Since: May 23, 2023
 I am not sure what middle of the road DAC means, but check out Scott Nixon and Schiit. Have one of each and both sound great.
Gsquared

 

RE: laptop/DAC question, posted on October 14, 2014 at 19:02:08
wayfarer
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: NYS
Joined: March 13, 2012
 Thanks Goober58. My USB remark was in reference to people not getting the same results from their PC as they get from their CDP’s and that the cheap USB ports may be to blame. There’s nothing functionally wrong with the USB ports on my laptop. This discussion actually gave me an idea to see if any difference between 3 USB ports as, judging by different colors of USB pins, they are mounted on different cards, probably from different makers. Glad you and everyone who replied are getting decent quality playback and without spending a fortune. It is removing some misconceptions I had.

 

RE: laptop/DAC question, posted on October 14, 2014 at 19:04:07
wayfarer
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: NYS
Joined: March 13, 2012
 Thanks rbolaw. I was actually looking for a front end for my speaker system. I may still try the Dragonfly just to see if any diff from phone output.

 

RE: laptop/DAC question, posted on October 14, 2014 at 19:06:02
wayfarer
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: NYS
Joined: March 13, 2012
 Thanks John. That I2S option is very interesting. Is that DAC async? Did you do anything to optimize your laptop at all?

 

RE: laptop/DAC question, posted on October 14, 2014 at 19:09:04
wayfarer
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: NYS
Joined: March 13, 2012
 Thanks T. Sorry, I should’ve been more specific in my original post. I am running Linux Crunchbang on that laptop. The only bloatware are NoScript and Adblock. I will be playing mostly Redbook rips. The DAC(s) I was thinking of is of async USB persuasion. The concern was mostly regarding folks reporting their PC setups being inferior to their CDP’s and my understanding was that the cheap USB interface is the issue somehow(rather than their DACs). Glass USB cable is interesting. I didn’t know those existed. Will check it out.

 

RE: laptop/DAC question, posted on October 14, 2014 at 19:12:07
wayfarer
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: NYS
Joined: March 13, 2012
 Thanks Dman. Sorry, I should’ve specified I was planning on connecting to my speaker system rather than through phones. I do use a run of the mill headphones from phone jack and it is ok for non-critical listening. I may try Dragonfly for kicks though.

 

RE: laptop/DAC question, posted on October 14, 2014 at 19:13:57
wayfarer
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: NYS
Joined: March 13, 2012
 Veritas1, thanks for the the latency tip. I didn’t even know that could be an issue with music. I was looking for non-computer front end option for the past year or so, but all of those options (SD/USB players and Network players) come short in control/interface department, so I am looking at the simplest solution of adding a DAC to what I already have.

 

RE: agree with Mr. Elison, posted on October 14, 2014 at 19:20:16
wayfarer
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: NYS
Joined: March 13, 2012
 Yeap, Schiit is one of them that I was considering. TEAC and Denon in the same price range were the others. Thanks

 

RE: laptop/DAC question, posted on October 14, 2014 at 19:29:09
wayfarer
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: NYS
Joined: March 13, 2012
 Mike, not sure this is what you were asking, but here's a post on using Win and Linux concurrently: http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/13/139003.html

I'm using Crunchbang Linux and it's relatively compact. Although that is the only OS I am running on that laptop.

 

RE: laptop/DAC question, posted on October 14, 2014 at 21:27:57
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23904
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 I don't know whether the DA100 Signature is asynchronous. It doesn't say anything about that on the webpage. I moved on to the Eximus DP1, which can handle up to 24/192 PCM. I also recently bought an Oppo BDP-105D, which can play DSD files directly from USB flash drives.

I didn't do anything to optimize my laptop. I just installed Foobar2000 and it seemed to work just fine. Occasionally I get dropouts when using the internal hard drive for music, but when I store all my music on an external USB drive, it seems to eliminate that problem. I also have an optimized Windows 7 music server, the HAL MS-1, but my Toshiba laptop sounds every bit as good to me.

Based on my limited experience, I think the DAC is the component that makes the greatest difference in sound quality.

Best regards,
John Elison

 

RE: agree with Mr. Elison, posted on October 14, 2014 at 21:34:54
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23904
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 I'm not familiar with the Schiit DAC, but I just bought a TASCAM DA-3000 DSD recorder and I really like the sound quality of its DAC. It uses BurrBrown PCM 1795 DAC chips, the same as the Teac UD-501 and the Denon DA-300USB. Consequently, I'm now considering buying a Teac UD-501.

Best regards,
John Elison

 

RE: laptop/DAC question, posted on October 14, 2014 at 21:54:09
Thorsten
Manufacturer

Posts: 4209
Location: Somewhere nice on planet dirt
Joined: September 25, 1999
 Hi,

Under Linux you probably need to use MPD and some frontend.

In the eary 2K's I designed a CD-Player that also had a USB Input (not even asyncronous!). The difference between the USB input and direct playback from the CD was very small. Using the latest generation Asynchronous DAC's NOT powered by the USB Bus is excellent IMNSHO.

But you need to care of the various routes by which RF noise from the Computer may leak into the audio system. Especially mainstream audio (solid state, high feedback amplifiers) is appalingly sensitive to noise.

Thor

At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to intolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?

 

RE: laptop/DAC question, posted on October 14, 2014 at 22:20:22
Thorsten
Manufacturer

Posts: 4209
Location: Somewhere nice on planet dirt
Joined: September 25, 1999
 Hi,

I was actually referring to a second installation of Windows, which can then be set to run "clean" (no messenger apps, software update daemons and the like).

If you want to try something else, I suspect Linux may worth trying. I have been keeping an eye on Daphile, but lack the time to to give it a serious try yet.

http://www.daphile.com/



Thor

At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to intolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?

 

RE: laptop/DAC question, posted on October 15, 2014 at 09:08:49
Mike B.
Audiophile

Posts: 26359
Location: OR
Joined: September 27, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 1, 1999
 I had hoped for a plug and play option. A operating system that I could drop my copy of dbpoweramp and Media Center into and start running.


 

RE: laptop/DAC question, posted on October 21, 2014 at 13:29:40
George Wes
Audiophile

Posts: 4
Location: Charlotte NC
Joined: October 21, 2014
 My $400 PC system:

used Dell laptop freshly loaded with Vista ($150)
3 TB external HD ($99)
a bunch of wav files ripped using EAC (lots of time)
VLC Player and VLC Remote (free)
Chrome for Spotify and such
ODAC usb dac ($109)

First thing is to update all of the drivers especially if you are using an older computer.

Next get a usb port tester. I checked 4 different laptops and usb power is all over the place. Best $15 (PortaPow on Amazon) you will spend if you are going to power your dac from usb and I bet that's where most of the complaints come with regards to sound quality.

I found the biggest source of noise in the Dell was the wifi card. I use it for connection to my lan so I need to run it, but a little digging on the web and I found the solution was to turn off the unused channels in the driver.

I do have a latency issue with the lcd screen when it sleeps but I just live with that.

Could I do better? I welcome any suggestions. I know I could spend more money!

George (long time lurker and first post)

 

RE: laptop/DAC question, posted on October 23, 2014 at 17:36:59
wayfarer
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: NYS
Joined: March 13, 2012
 Thanks George. So how did you resolve the power fluctuation issue? Did you have to check every laptop before making a decision whether to purchase or not?

Serge

 

RE: laptop/DAC question, posted on October 27, 2014 at 07:48:04
George Wes
Audiophile

Posts: 4
Location: Charlotte NC
Joined: October 21, 2014
 You can always use a powered usb hub. It will fix the problem but adds another piece to the puzzle.

With the tester I've found it's not just the computer but which usb port you use so you might get lucky there. My Dell Studio for example has good power in the rear ports but terrible up front. Don't know why but it does.

 

RE: laptop/DAC question, posted on October 27, 2014 at 21:00:55
wayfarer
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: NYS
Joined: March 13, 2012
 "You can always use a powered usb hub. It will fix the problem but adds another piece to the puzzle."

I'd like to avoid any extra equipement whenever possible. Will check the USB's with the tester though. Good tip. Thanks

"My Dell Studio for example has good power in the rear ports but terrible up front."

They likely sourced the cards from different vendors.

 

Page processed in 0.029 seconds.

[ Top Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]