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New streamer from Accustic Arts

108.169.2.66

Posted on October 2, 2014 at 09:53:59
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
Is the place to talk about new streamers?

Not a multi-purpose commercial computer: seems like digital file playback should be here??

This streamer has a DAC in it, (that I personally would rather not have), that can be circumvented.




"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

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RE: New streamer from Accustic Arts, posted on October 2, 2014 at 15:59:38
Blackdog
Manufacturer

Posts: 1505
Location: Ontario
Joined: March 20, 2006
The dac is the best part.
Dan Santoni

 

RE: New streamer from Accustic Arts, posted on October 3, 2014 at 06:59:39
Old SteveA
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: March 27, 2011
Any idea of what the price is ?

(This looks like a pretty "seriously" well designed & built piece
of Audio equipment; When they prominently place the words "Handmade in Germany" in the literature it normally indicates your bank account is going to take a "healthy hit"...So how much of a hit will it be ?)

 

RE: New streamer from Accustic Arts, posted on October 3, 2014 at 07:32:10
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
Thanks for posting. Looks very nice..I hope it gets decent distribution and some review airtime.

 

Yet another manufacturer going with the OEM StreamUnlimited solution, posted on October 3, 2014 at 15:21:18
It looks like they're using a StreamUnlimited Stream700 board & software with the optional TFT display and Accustic Arts branding on the StreamUnlimited apps. Accustic Arts has provided the casework, power supply and DAC board. Just like nearly every other manufacturer who has introduced a streamer lately.

Aside from Linn and Lumin, I can't think of a single streamer that isn't based on an OEM board + apps from StreamUnlimited or Audivo, and both of those use the same BridgeCo network media processor on a chip and software stack. So these are all pretty much the same feature-wise, differing mainly by what generation/revision of the BridgeCo chip & software they're using.

I believe that is why you don't see more high end companies offering network streaming players with digital outputs only. Without the DAC section, there wouldn't be enough to differentiate one product from another and it would become a race to the lowest price point.

 

RE: New streamer from Accustic Arts, posted on October 4, 2014 at 18:54:22
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 18251
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
May 16, 2021
"The design of the STREAMER ES is compatible with future possibilities for streaming services (e.g. Spotify®, Deezer® etc.)."

Does that mean it cannot stream Spotify Now? If not , what are they waiting for?

Can this do more than my Squeezebox Touch?



 

Can you play from USB hard drive?, posted on October 6, 2014 at 19:13:23
JeffH
Audiophile

Posts: 4574
Location: Orange County, So Cal
Joined: April 5, 2000
It mentions flash drives a couple times, but never a mention of hard drives. What am I missin'?

 

But there's pitifully things worth streaming, posted on October 8, 2014 at 02:19:18
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 15703
Location: Copenhagen
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I spent $500 to find that out.

 

But there's pitifully little worth streaming, posted on October 8, 2014 at 02:19:55
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 15703
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
I spent $500 to find that out.

 

RE: New streamer from Accustic Arts, posted on October 8, 2014 at 16:09:12
J.Mac
Audiophile

Posts: 3553
Location: Colorado
Joined: November 6, 2002
> Is the place to talk about new streamers?
>
> Not a multi-purpose commercial computer: seems like digital file playback
> should be here??
>
> This streamer has a DAC in it, (that I personally would rather not have),
> that can be circumvented.

I find it bizarre that the odd little definitions that exist in your mind have you thinking that this topic should not have been posted in computer audio.

 

How can you tell?, posted on October 2, 2014 at 21:55:36
jusbe
Audiophile

Posts: 5950
Location: North Island
Joined: April 4, 2000
What DAC is it?


Big J

"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."


 

RE: How can you tell?, posted on October 3, 2014 at 04:11:11
Blackdog
Manufacturer

Posts: 1505
Location: Ontario
Joined: March 20, 2006
I had one here for a couple of weeks. The unit has SPDIF input. Used that way it sounded fantastic compared to a couple of other DAC's.
Who cares what DAC is in it as long as it sounds good.


Dan Santoni

 

Agree that......, posted on October 3, 2014 at 10:18:48
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
there's a lot more to a great DAC than the type & implementation of the specific converter.

From my perspective, (like Monty Python sez), "We've already got one"

I am most frustrated that digital file playback manufacturers are not isolating out TRANSPORTS along the effective, philosophy of component isolation.

Besides, we have too many multipurpose boxes. Those people who have spent some time involved with digital file playback don't need "all-in-one" dumbed down, catch-all, turnkey solutions.

For many of us, adding a DAC into that box just makes a (likely) already too expensive box, - prohibitive. Besides, this (newish) area of non-commercial-computer digital file playback has the stigma of computer file playback. Wherein, - designers are trying to change & violate a multi-use device for high-end audio, and are failing. That's why the Sim Audio Mind, - theoretically, - is better; because it eschews a DAC and just does ONE thing.



"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

No idea on the price, posted on October 3, 2014 at 10:11:36
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
Based on past experiences with companies such as Burmeister, Lindemen, etc., - your speculation is likely good.....

Cheers,



"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: New streamer from Accustic Arts, posted on October 3, 2014 at 11:05:53
Roseval
Audiophile

Posts: 1843
Joined: March 31, 2008
$5,500


The Well Tempered Computer

 

RE: New streamer from Accustic Arts, posted on October 3, 2014 at 12:32:31
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
Cheers,

You're the guy who's rockin it!!!

Really appreciate you buying all of this stuff, and then reporting, classifying, and relating your experiences.

I wish that I had a bigger budget to buy some of this, and then return the favor.

I would love to buy the Rendu and then do a swap with you with the Bryston. Bummer that we're on opposite ends of the US, (you're in NY)?




"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: New streamer from Accustic Arts, posted on October 3, 2014 at 11:19:13
Old SteveA
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: March 27, 2011
Yup, I was guessing about $5-7k, as I seem to remember the CD player review
on "Enjoy the Music"

(I knew this was'nt "Electrophonic" level equipment)

 

Too bad......, posted on October 3, 2014 at 11:57:13
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
I wonder if it would be "in-line" price-wise with the Bryston & the Sonore if it didn't have a DAC?


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: New streamer from Accustic Arts, posted on October 3, 2014 at 19:21:11
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
Correct. New Yawk.

I strongly believe that in today's digital front end paradigm, it is best to buy cheap and buy often. I don't mind investing $1000 to $1500 for various solutions. But buying a $5000-$10,000 solution today I think is foolish. I don't think the dust is anywhere near settling..and the shameful marketing being done by purveyors of digital components is hurting the consumer as well.

 

Thank you for that informative post, posted on October 3, 2014 at 16:27:12
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
The folks at Sonore claim that they're using their own proprietary and custom mainboard built in Sweden: (or was it Swiss-y-land)?

The SA Mind has a way different case footprint: is the TFT board that you're referring to really small?

IME, power supplies, connector types, internal damping, defeat-able LCD, playback software etc, CAN be very, very, important. Almost ALL of the products have differences in those areas.

These players also have differences in features like some have USB outs and some don't. Some have the capability of playing files from USB thumb drives.

I am curious about that board, & want to see it. Going to hunt around the internets ......

Thanks again.


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

In addition to the Sonore, the Bryston also does not, posted on October 3, 2014 at 16:58:58
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
which uses a custom Intel Atom...

http://bryston.com/products/digital_audio/BDP-2.html

And, the Auralic Aries also does not use the board you mentioned.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/598-auralic-aries-so-far/

That's at least 3.




"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: Yet another manufacturer going with the OEM StreamUnlimited solution, posted on October 4, 2014 at 10:07:09
audioengr
Manufacturer

Posts: 6017
Location: Oregon
Joined: April 12, 2001
I've never based anything on an OEM board and will not do it with an Ethernet interface either. I'm designing the board.

Steve N.

 

RE: Thank you for that informative post, posted on October 3, 2014 at 19:23:20
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
Spot on.

 

More info & discussion, posted on October 4, 2014 at 13:04:58
The Simaudio MiND is based on the Audivo OEM board and software. Here is a link:

http://www.audivo.com/AV/hifi-streaming-emas.html

You can see the Audivo board in the middle of the MiND in this picture:

http://www.moremusic.nl/moon/180_mind_inside.jpg

An intro to the StreamUnlimited alternative is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCL4c61AmBg
http://www.streamunlimited.com/support/downloads/product-leaflets/stream700-v25.pdf

It's pretty easy to recognize who is using StreamUnlimited or Audivo by looking at an interior picture, or by looking at the app, or both.

The BridgeCo chips that are used by StreamUnlimited, Audivo, and the mainstream Japanese companies are an embedded computer on a chip specialized for network audio. These have an ARM processor, system controller, video, audio, USB, Ethernet, and any other interfaces you need on one chip. It runs Linux. Their current products are the DM860 and DM870, with the former having Ethernet only and the latter including a Wi-Fi radio on the chip. A PDF describing the DM870 is here:

http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/dm870db.pdf

The audio equipment manufacturers can decide which of these features and interfaces they want to offer to the end user based on whatever marketing rationale they come up with. Simaudio took the minimalist route and offered only Ethernet and Wi-Fi with digital out in a small package, which is why the Audivo board in the MiND has several connectors which aren't connected to anything. Whereas Accustic Arts included the optional 3.5" display from StreamUnlimited and digital input and USB.

I think this is one of the main reasons why BridgeCo's products have become ubiquitous:

Apple working together with BridgeCo to launch AirPlay

Anyway...

The real reason why I posted was that I think I have a hypothesis why you don't see more transport-only options like the MiND. Most audio equipment manufacturers don't have the resources and expertise to design embedded computers nor to develop the software stack or apps. What they bring to the table is expertise in audio circuit design, power supply design, DACs, etc. These are the things that have the greatest influence on audio quality and it's where the audio equipment manufacturers add value and differentiate themselves.

If you take away the analog outputs, then what value do high end audio manufacturers really add? BridgeCo provides an embedded computer, reference/evaluation boards, operating system, software stack, application SDK, and example applications. Then companies like Audivo and StreamUnlimited produce turn-key solutions based on the BridgeCo platform and offer hardware design services and customization/branding of the apps. If all you want is an Ethernet/Wi-Fi to S/PDIF converter, it's basically done. If you take a look at the Simaudio MiND for example, there is hardly any Simaudio engineering expertise to apply in that product. They even use an off-the-shelf wall wart power supply.

As a further example, consider the set of products shown below, ranging in price from the $20k Ayon S-5 at the top to the $900 Pro-Ject Stream Box DS at the bottom. These are all based on the same BridgeCo based streaming hardware and software platform, they all have the same 3.5" displays, and more or less have the same Android and iOS apps with different branding and what looks like minimal customization. Where they differ is in the DAC and analog circuit design, with the Ayon including a high end tube rectified power supply in a separate box and a tube output stage, while the Pro-Ject makes due with a wall-wart supply and a pretty generic looking op-amp output. Ayon can make a high margin on their product because there is a lot of high end audio engineering in it; the OEM SteamUnlimited stuff is a relatively small part of what's offered. Pro-Ject can't because all they've added to the StreamUnlimited modules is a very bare bones DAC stage that they probably didn't even design.

The same companies could offer transport-only streamers, but they would basically just be the same OEM solution in different casework, and then it would become a race to the bottom on price. That's my hypothesis on why you don't see more products like the Simaudio MiND

Ayon S-5 ($20000)


Chord DSX1000 ($13000)


Accustic Arts Streamer ES ($5500)


Krell Connect ($4000)


Atoll ST200 ($2500)


Musical Fidelity M1CLiC ($2000)


Pro-Ject Stream Box DS ($900)

 

RE: In addition to the Sonore, the Bryston also does not, posted on October 3, 2014 at 19:25:44
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
The Bryston still ranks as #1 for me based on sonics.

 

RE: In addition to the Sonore, the Bryston also does not, posted on October 4, 2014 at 10:08:28
audioengr
Manufacturer

Posts: 6017
Location: Oregon
Joined: April 12, 2001
I believe these use different boards.

 

RE: In addition to the Sonore, the Bryston also does not, posted on October 4, 2014 at 13:33:32
You're right. I knew about the Bryston but just forgot about it. However, I don't see anything custom about the Bryston. It looks to me like an off the shelf mini-ITX computer with the usual commodity computer parts in it. That's not to say it sucks; it could work great for all I know, but it appears to be something that anyone with computer skills could DIY.

Based only on the pictures of the Auralic Aries at Computer Audiophile, it certainly looks like a unique and in-house hardware design, which is something I had only seen before from Linn and Lumin. BTW, I'm not claiming to have seen every network streamer on the market. But I did survey the field and do some research when I was looking to buy.

 

RE: Yet another manufacturer going with the OEM StreamUnlimited solution, posted on October 4, 2014 at 11:41:32
jbrrp1
Audiophile

Posts: 483
Location: Minnesota
Joined: April 24, 2007
So, you clearly don't like the idea of using an OEM board, but I am unclear on what you mean about the ethernet input: you don't like them at all, so wouldn't implement one, or if you did implement one you would design your own board? I'm curious, because I am gravitating toward a NAS for serving and ethernet for sending to renderers for controlling DAC's at multiple locations in the house.

 

RE: Yet another manufacturer going with the OEM StreamUnlimited solution, posted on October 5, 2014 at 11:15:24
audioengr
Manufacturer

Posts: 6017
Location: Oregon
Joined: April 12, 2001
If you are talking about an OEM CPU motherboard, this should not make much difference. The important thing is the PCI to S/PDIF or PCI to USB interfaces and the clock/power for these.

I guess I consider Sonos, Squeezebox and AppleTV as streamers. What you are talking about is what I call a music server.

Steve N.

 

Interesting. -t, posted on October 4, 2014 at 22:01:06
jusbe
Audiophile

Posts: 5950
Location: North Island
Joined: April 4, 2000

Big J

"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."


 

Of course the Auralic, Mind, and Brystson all sound, posted on October 6, 2014 at 10:44:43
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
dramatically different.......




"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: In addition to the Sonore, the Bryston also does not, posted on October 4, 2014 at 15:51:19
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46196
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since:
February 2, 2002
re: Bryston: It looks to me like an off the shelf mini-ITX computer with the usual commodity computer parts in it.

It is, but you pay mostly for the casework, imagined differentiation in the market, and a brand name.



 

RE: In addition to the Sonore, the Bryston also does not, posted on October 4, 2014 at 18:41:15
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
Concerning the Bryston, you are totally misinformed, and like Abe, I can say with certainty you have never seen or heard one. Bryston has a dedicated team of 3 people working on the firmware, and design on a full time basis, and they have achieved sound quality the other jokers can only dream of.

I would LOVE to see some one attempt to DIY a BDP. If it was so easy it would have been done already.

There is so much misinformation spread on the digital boards.

And this nonsense about OEM parts..so what...90% of all amplifiers and especially speakers use off the shelf parts..and no one uses that to demean the end product.

 

RE: In addition to the Sonore, the Bryston also does not, posted on October 4, 2014 at 18:38:31
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
Totally uninformed, silly post. You have no idea what you are talking about.
And I am going to guess with great certainty you have never heard one.

 

Totally uninformed? Were you misinforming us?, posted on October 5, 2014 at 08:01:58
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46196
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since:
February 2, 2002
"Totally uninformed, silly post. You have no idea what you are talking about."

You yourself said in an earlier post regarding Bryston and Auraliti, " I've posted about them at length. They have it right. Bryston thought so and uses their architecture for the BDP series."

And we've already proven in previous posts that Auraliti is based on a common mini-itx motherboard with PCI riser for horizontal mounting of an analog sound card (as shown below) or USB card.

Auraliti rear panel

Common mini-ITX motherboard. Note rear panel connector layout similarities



 

What misinformation, posted on October 6, 2014 at 05:25:09
I heard the BDP-1 in a full Bryston system with Dynaudio C4 speakers at a show in 2012. Obviously there's no way I can attribute anything specific to the BDP-1 in that context. I've never heard the BDP-2. More importantly, I never made any claims about its sound quality as a transport. You're the one doing that.

And I don't know what misinformation you're talking about. That is an off the shelf Mini-ITX computer in there. In the BDP-1, it's a PC Engines ALIX.1D. In the BDP-2, it's an iBase MI890-N4. There is a similarly off the shelf ESI Juli@ PCI sound card providing the digital audio output. Bryston has added two line drivers to buffer the output from the ESI Juia@ card for long cable runs, with one of them converting to balanced for the XLR output. There are two power supplies: an off the shelf Mean Well 5V SMPS, and a Bryston 12V linear supply. Bryston has also added a front panel display and controls. The operating system is Linux, installed on a Compact Flash card. Linux supports the ESI Juli@ out of the box using the ICE 1724 ALSA driver.

The only thing that's difficult for a hobbyist to DIY about this is the front panel display & controls and the IR remote controls; they would take a modicum of engineering to integrate. Bryston's 12V linear supply can be replaced with an off the shelf item of equal of better quality. The line drivers that Bryston has added for the XLR and BNC outputs can similarly replaced with off the shelf items, if you even need them. For short cable runs, you can take the output from the ESI Juli@ as is.

If you don't need the front panel and IR remote, there's no hardware or software engineering that needs to be done. You just need computer assembly skills and you need to know your way around Linux well enough to configure and troubleshoot a stripped-down headless install. There are plenty of resources on the web to help, such as LinuxMusicians. Lots of people have done this.

BTW, I'm not trying to demean the Bryston. Time is valuable and spending $3k for a purpose built optimized audio computer is not a bad deal if you either don't have the skills and inclination to build one or don't have the time. If I were building one, I would end up spending at least $1k on parts alone.

An open question is whether a Mini-ITX computer + sound card works better than an Audivo or StreamUnlimited. Personally, I'm not thrilled about either approach because they both result in sending synchronous SPDIF/AES3 to a DAC which is a fundamentally flawed approach, but that's a whole other argument.

 

RE: In addition to the Sonore, the Bryston also does not, posted on October 6, 2014 at 08:40:36
rick_m
Audiophile

Posts: 6230
Location: Oregon
Joined: August 11, 2005
"There is so much misinformation spread on the digital boards."

Towards clarity and light, just what is your relationship with Bryston? You seem pretty defensive for a mere customer...

Rick

 

RE: New streamer from Accustic Arts, posted on October 6, 2014 at 06:55:18
I have been streaming Spotify and similar services to most network audio players that support DLNA and/or Airplay using the following methods:
- Run the Spotify app on your iPhone or iPad and stream via AirPlay
- Stream from Mac OS X via Airplay
- Stream from Windows via DLNA using a virtual soundcard like Jamcast or Linn Songcast (for Linn devices)

On Android, I know there are multiple DLNA, Airplay, Chromecast streaming apps available and DLNA support is usually built-in with most devices. I have not looked into all the options for streaming Spotify and other services from an Android devices.

Most network audio players cannot connect to Spotify directly by itself. I think one of the obstacles is that Spotify's Linux client is unsupported. Spotify made an unofficial Linux version available 4 years ago and has continued to release updates for it, but even after all that time it's still just a "preview" and is unsupported. Another obstacle is that Spotify is trying to push their own Spotify Connect protocol.

But with good DLNA and AirPlay support you don't really need the network player itself to support every service internally.

 

I don't own one. , posted on October 6, 2014 at 10:13:05
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
But, speculating, - yes and no.

It will have less features, and do less, - but it will sound better: given the right context.




"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: Totally uninformed? Were you misinforming us?, posted on October 5, 2014 at 08:07:10
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
Abe you just like to be argumentative, and you have a history of doing so strictly based on conjecture.

So your lack of response to my question undoubtedly means you have not heard the Bryston BDP series.

EVERYTHING matters, and Bryston has carefully chosen every aspect of their implementation, from yes, the case work, to circuit layout, to signal path, to parts choice.

Your argument is just nonsense. Does every amp that uses a KT120 tube sound the same? Does every speaker that uses a SEAS tweeter sound the same? Does every solid state amp that is Class A/B sound the same? Does every cable that uses WBT connectors sound the same?

Come of it. It really bugs you that a perfectly formed solution exists out there, doesn't it?

 

RE: Totally uninformed? Were you misinforming us?, posted on October 5, 2014 at 13:54:26
AbeCollins
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Posts: 46196
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Contributor
  Since:
February 2, 2002
I replied to your post.

And no, I have not heard the Bryston.

Just setting the record straight with what you said about Auraliti and Bryston. Could sound nice, I don't know....

But based on your own comments they are indeed designed around common commodity PC components. Enjoy.

 

RE: What misinformation, posted on October 6, 2014 at 09:02:35
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
Just to address a few of your points, I appreciate the fact that are trying to forensically examine the Bryston BDP series to educate people about the internals. No problem there.

The fact there are three units, the BDP-1, the BDP-2, and the new BDP USB. All three output USB. (Prices are $1800, $2200, and $3000). So you can eliminate SPDIF completely. Secondly, these can be used as file players with directly connected storage, up to 6 drives in the case of the BDP-2, so one can bypass network streaming if one desires, and simply use the network for a control point via Android or iOS.

Bryston's has 8 formal reviews of the BDP series, and 6 of the reviewers purchased the samples. Including both at TAS and Stereophile.

There are other solutions, no doubt. This is not the only game in town.

But I just see this ongoing theme that purpose built audiophile grade streamers/file players/renders or what ever you want to call them are overpriced foxconn assembly line grade computers in nice cases.

 

Have you compared the two pictures?, posted on October 6, 2014 at 10:37:11
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
If you want to go ahead and post them, - the differences are dramatic.




"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: New streamer from Accustic Arts, posted on October 6, 2014 at 09:47:30
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 18251
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
May 16, 2021
Well, my Squeezebox Touch is over 5 years old and has no trouble streaming Spotify or others. I am also sure that the Touch is a fraction of the price of this 'new' streamer.

Also, if your phone can stream Spotify, why do streamers seem to have such a difficult time with Spotify?




 

RE: In addition to the Sonore, the Bryston also does not, posted on October 6, 2014 at 08:53:04
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
Zero relationship outside of being a retail paying customer.

When I "defend" the BDP series I have in mind ALL purpose built, audio grade, file players.

Why don't you ask the same of the numerous Apple fan boys who "defend" apple on a daily basis and whose ongoing theme is that anything else is overpriced and inflexible.

 

RE: In addition to the Sonore, the Bryston also does not, posted on October 6, 2014 at 09:59:54
rick_m
Audiophile

Posts: 6230
Location: Oregon
Joined: August 11, 2005
"Why don't you ask the same of the numerous Apple fan boys who "defend" apple on a daily basis"

They just seem more obvious I suppose...

Nothing wrong with being a happy customer, I was just curious. Your remarks made me wonder if you were involved with their marketing or something, thanks for the clarification.

Rick

 

I would bet that even Internet radio, & associated apps, posted on October 6, 2014 at 14:13:43
Sordidman
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Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
are largely not part of the scope of this.

I really would like it, - but then the main rig is mostly reserved for listening to higher quality formats.

I am speculating, - but I think that Bryston, Sim Audio, Senore, - etc. are just throwing a bone out there on this one, - with the focus on playing back WAV, AIFF, lossless FLAC, from a NAS. Since the quality of IR is so low, - they're focused elsewhere.

They are trying to go beyond the Squeezebox in quality. If there was quality to be had streaming from the Internet, - it might be a different story.


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

Spotify, posted on October 8, 2014 at 16:04:12
The reasons are not technical. Spotify is a proprietary system and they control which apps and hardware devices can access their services. They do provide a software development kit for 3rd parties, but it's restricted to non-commercial use:


Terms of Use
The Libspotify SDK and CocoaLibSpotify are not intended for use in commercial applications or in conjunction with commercial hardware products. By using Spotify developer tools, you accept our Developer Terms of Use.

If you wish to integrate Spotify functionality into a hardware device or software associated with a hardware device, please contact the partner hardware team here before proceeding further.


When Spotify was an up-and-coming new service, they seemed eager to add new client platforms (Squeezebox, Sonos, Boxee, Roku). But then it just seemed to stop. The number of supported devices/platforms is shockingly small and hasn't grown much latety, which is surprising when you consider the number of vendors who would like to add Spotify support. There isn't even a native Windows 8 client or Apple TV client! I don't know the reason, but I suspect they put everyone on hold while they developed Spotify Connect, which is just launching now. If it's not a roaring success and they don't get Spotify on more devices soon, they are going to be left in the dust.

 

RE: In addition to the Sonore, the Bryston also does not, posted on October 6, 2014 at 10:23:35
Sprezza Tura
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Posts: 4585
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It was a legitimate question. No worries.

I just have not heard a digital front end, regardless of price, sound as good.

BTW, I take pride in being an anti-fan boy..there is no other piece of Bryston gear I am interested in owning. This is their only product that I think is truly outstanding sonically along with their DAC.

 

Which two pictures do you mean? (nt), posted on October 6, 2014 at 10:45:46
nt

 

The Mi890 and the Bryston, posted on October 6, 2014 at 10:56:20
Sordidman
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Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
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They are dramatically different.

If you didn't mean the Mi890, - then please let us know which.

The fact remains that the Bryston, The Aries, and the Sonore, are CUSTOM, and have at least 4 major (MAINBOARD) differences.






"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: The Mi890 and the Bryston, posted on October 6, 2014 at 11:46:31
That is the board in the BDP-2. The reference photo from the Mouser catalog I posted doesn't have the heat sink installed because it's not sold with the board (it's up to the customer to choose a heat sink based on the thermal environment). I suspect that is what you're getting hung up on. Also, the reference photo is for the D4 board revision which had two DIMM sockets while Bryston appears to using just one DIMM socket which is the D5 revision. But the board layouts are identical down to the detail. I can even see in the Bryston pictures where they have removed the back panel connector block for the onboard audio by pulling it off the pin block and desoldered the VGA connector.

Another thing that made it pretty easy to figure out that they had upgraded to the iBASE MI890 is that it's pretty much the only single board computer available whose form factor and connector layout matches that of the PC Machines ALIX.1. Choosing pretty much anything else would have required more redesign.

 

My bad. I didn't think about the extra RAM slot, posted on October 6, 2014 at 12:04:45
Sordidman
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Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
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I also failed to notice that the Bryston DOES have a PCI slot, - the Bryston has a card in it....

pulling the VGA/video connector will likely improve the sound.




"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

Then why would you think they would mention internet streaming......., posted on October 6, 2014 at 16:06:53
Cut-Throat
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From the link you posted.

"The design of the STREAMER ES is compatible with future possibilities for streaming services (e.g. Spotify®, Deezer® etc.). When a software update is available for the STREAMER ES, the user can implement the update easily by merely pressing a button. The download and installation then takes place automatically."



 

"future ---future possibilities for streaming services", posted on October 7, 2014 at 09:54:36
Sordidman
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The model right now is still buying a physical product, dumping it to digital file, - (and possessing those as another collection on an internal hard drive, or NAS drive/server).

As $50K music servers are only starting to be discovered to be inconvenient by the traditional/old school audiophile, folks like you and I are starting to see how ridiculous they are compared to the humble Squeezebox and it's myriad of wonderful swiss-army-knife features.

The Bryston, Mind, and Sonore were the first of these boxes to realize that there should be something in between the squeezebox and a $50K music server. They are working it all out.

The Sonore people are taking the position of more purity, and they're philosophy is to eschew Internet Radio (and I mean IR and Internet Apps) as it is low quality.

From my perspective, - I don't think that it really belongs in my high end rig and I agree. However, - I enjoy it so much, and it would be super convenient to use a comparative illustration to friends: and also for those friends who don't care bugger-all about high=end gear and want me to go out on the Internets and find a song that they're talking about.

Again, - I am likely 95% on your same page as far as the Squeezebox is concerned. (In my opinion), my main rig is mostly for playing SACDs and CD level quality: it's a big step up from the bedroom & kitchen. So, - I have SQ expectations, and want a different experience from it, that the Squeezebox is just inadequate for. If the Sonore ends up being a significant step up from the Bryston or others, - in playing files from the NAS, - I'm going to go with it, regardless of whether or not it can play lo rez streaming from Pandora/Spotify/Soundcloud....


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

I always take it to mean both, posted on October 7, 2014 at 12:56:29
Sordidman
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Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
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Man, - wouldn't that suck if for some crazy reason it would accept USB flash drives and not USB HDs?

I cannot think of a reason what difference there would be.





"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

"CD Quality"...................., posted on October 7, 2014 at 14:30:36
Cut-Throat
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You seemed to imply that the Squeezebox Touch cannot play "CD quality". Correct?

I stream my CDs in lossless FLAC format into a quality DAC and it plays beautifully. I have tweaked the SBT with another Power Supply and would not use its internal DAC. But the Squeezebox Touch is definitely Part of my Main Rig. I also stream a lot of Spotify at 320kbps and would not want to bet my money on whether I could tell a difference between this and Lossless Recordings. And a bad lossless recording definitely sounds worse than a great re-mastered Spotify Recording.

The 20 Million Tracks that Spotify has is the Best Source that I have ever used. The Squeezebox Touch is still king for streaming in this regard for me.

Still looking for a "Better Squeezebox Touch" Though !!




 

RE: "2 USB ports to connect USB flash drives"..., posted on October 7, 2014 at 16:57:51
Ivan303
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I suspect that's about it.

Certainly would be the case on my Marantz NA7004, as well as the newer Marantz Network Audio Players, where the front USB 'B' port on the front is usable for iPhone/iPod as well as USB sticks.

Sorry, no USB hard drives need apply. :-(


First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

Just thought it odd, posted on October 7, 2014 at 20:57:25
JeffH
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Posts: 4574
Location: Orange County, So Cal
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that they would mention flash drive twice and no mention of USB HD. I would certainly be a deal killer for me.

 

Why?, posted on October 9, 2014 at 08:33:38
E-Stat
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I cannot think of a reason what difference there would be.

Power requirements! Similarly, my Touch players are not designed to deliver the current needs of USB connected hard drives.

 

Nope........, posted on October 7, 2014 at 16:34:31
Sordidman
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Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
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Squeezebox Touch is a great device that plays all manner of files excellently. In my case I have AIFF.

I have one NAS drive with nearly 2500 CDs of AIFF files: that it plays without a hiccup....

My MacMini in my main rig sounds better, and I've plugged the Squeezebox with the TeraDak PSU, and compared directly.

And the Mini doesn't sound quite as good as redbook CDs.

So, - in the winter, I'm going to pick up the winner of the Mind/Bryston/Sonore shoot out to replace the Mini. I'm not dumping any more $$$ into commercial computing products, or USB, which is not capable of state of the art performance.

Finally, - it's a bit unreasonable of me, - but I don't want to drop $2000 + re-doing a product that is designed for Email and Internet browsing, and then chuck down another $2000 on an USB cable and interface device in order to use the SPDIF digital input on (what I feel) is one of the best DACs ever made.

With the NAS, & Squeezebox server, I can get all my AIFF files, plus internet radio/pandora/etc in the two most important rooms where Internet radio counts. It's not the highest priority to me to get IR on the main rig. I am not going to choose the Mind (for example) because it does Internet Radio, where the Sonore (might) sound better with my NAS/AIFF and not do IR. For the main system, - I'll choose whichever device plays the AIFF files best, - (and doesn't have USB outs or have a DAC in it).

I agree with you that the Squeezebox is without equal for quality, price, and features. And all 4 of theses transports likely beat the Squeezebox for playing back AIFF/FLAC/WAV files, but they don't do Internet radio, or Internet Apps as well. I want something better than the Squeezebox for AIFF, and don't care about IR, because IR is by nature, - lower quality.




"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: Nope........, posted on October 8, 2014 at 15:29:45
Cut-Throat
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"My MacMini in my main rig sounds better, and I've plugged the Squeezebox with the TeraDak PSU, and compared directly. "

Are you using an external DAC? --- Which DAC do you have? ...... I have had numerous Audiophiles to my place and they cannot tell the diff between my SBT with power supply and External DACs and CDs. And they do not want to 'place money' differentiating between Spotify 320kbs vs. FLAC Files.



 

Interesting....., posted on October 7, 2014 at 17:26:58
Sordidman
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What's the difference? Will it only play the file, (USB stick), if it's in the root directory? Or is it because the device only is able to load a few files at a time into memory?




"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

Have not idea..., posted on October 7, 2014 at 18:16:20
Ivan303
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Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
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Not saying there is no way to make a USB hard drive look like a USB Flash drive, but seem to recall a USB flash drive is FAT32 and has it's own clock?

Someone here should know.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: Have not idea..., posted on October 8, 2014 at 10:19:06
I know that FAT16 and FAT32 are the only filesystems supported on USB devices. No NTFS, HFS+, ext3/4, etc. I suspect that a USB hard drive would work if formatted with FAT32, but I wouldn't put money on that without checking with the manufacturer first.

 

Easily remedied by getting a router that has an USB port, posted on October 8, 2014 at 10:13:37
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
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on it.

You can plug your USB drive into the router.




"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

I don't understand your post., posted on October 8, 2014 at 10:11:42
Sordidman
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Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
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You mean that you don't have any digital music files?

These devices stream digital music files that you create.




"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

"Streaming" in this case does NOT mean streaming from Internet - that's just a bonus., posted on October 8, 2014 at 12:58:55
carcass93
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Posts: 7181
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It's basically playing your digital files (ripped fom CDs, LPs etc.) over your home network. Even the "network" part is optional, in case of units that can play from attached USB devices - defeating the meaning of the word "streaming" completely.

 

Yep! /n, posted on October 8, 2014 at 15:16:21
Ivan303
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Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
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n


First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

which is what i said below......, posted on October 8, 2014 at 13:13:05
Sordidman
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Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
just far less clearly & directly....... :-)

Thanks!!




"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: Nope........, posted on October 8, 2014 at 16:06:54
Sordidman
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Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
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Thanks for relating your experiences and info....

I have an APL Universal player with 10 asynchronous DACs per channel and no master clock. So, - I guess I have 20 DACs.

I have a digital, SPDIF coax input on the above. This leaves me in (perhaps) a somewhat unique position of having the exact same DAC to compare CDs with (whatever) comes in through the SPDIF input. (I guess it's possible that the SPDIF input USB IF, & SPDIF cable could be somehow less than for the Mac Mini, and for the Squeezebox, - just the cable.

Differences are heard between redbook CDs, & the MacMini playing AIFF files. (There of course is debate on whether or not differences can be heard between compressed FLAC and AppleLossless vs WAV and AIFF).

In any case, yes, - we consistently hear (negative) differences (again slight) ranked from CDs, MacMini, Squeezebox. Most notably, the bass is a bit deeper, less smooth sounding, and lingers longer with the Mini & more-so with the Squeezebox. The differences are not dramatic, - but are noticeable.

I don't play with Spotify because of their connection to Facebook. I am not sure if I've streamed 320kps live streaming before.

Reviewers have claimed that the Sim Audio Mind sounds better than the Squeezebox, but (from what I've read), it was unclear if they were using an upgraded PSU for the SBT. Also, - Sprezza has the Mind, SBT, and Bryston transports.




"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

Thanks..........nt, posted on October 8, 2014 at 16:06:46
Cut-Throat
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nt



 

Your refrigerator is more of a computer, posted on October 9, 2014 at 13:04:59
Sordidman
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Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
And it's not my mind; it's yours..

I would be grateful if you would please stop trolling this subject with these unshared viewpoints of yours.




"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: Why?, posted on October 9, 2014 at 09:21:48
J.Mac
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Location: Colorado
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True that a USB port won't power a 3.5" drive, but all of the external 3.5" drives provide their own power supply. For 2.5" drives, I think most drives made today can be powered by a motherboard's USB port. The Touch doesn't provide enough power for all external 2.5" drives, but it will power many of them.

 

FAT32. , posted on October 9, 2014 at 13:11:53
Sordidman
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Location: San Francisco
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I don't define an ext USB drive by how it is powered: but by its data transfer IF. Both at work, & especially at home, I would want an ext PSU unit.


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

The other challenge with the Touch , posted on October 9, 2014 at 09:31:22
E-Stat
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April 5, 2002
is that lookup and search performance suffers if you use local storage for the (tens of) thousands of entries possible with terabyte drives. I use my quad core i7-860 server for decompression and library functions.

As for me, I really prefer the concept of having a single library of all my digital content that is accessible across multiple systems.

 

RE: The other challenge with the Touch , posted on October 9, 2014 at 09:43:04
J.Mac
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Posts: 3553
Location: Colorado
Joined: November 6, 2002
> is that lookup and search performance suffers if you use local storage for the
> (tens of) thousands of entries possible with terabyte drives. I use my quad core
> i7-860 server for decompression and library functions.

Yes. The Touch was badly underpowered for what the designers had hoped to accomplish with it. It's pretty close to unusable with a locally attached library.

> As for me, I really prefer the concept of having a single library of all my digital
> content that is accessible across multiple systems.

Same here. Thankfully, we're not stuck with the godawful UPnP protocol for Squeezebox and its software.

 

Hardly, posted on October 9, 2014 at 16:49:12
J.Mac
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I'm not talking about computing power, in any case. How do you figure your so-called "streamer" is not a device in the realm of "computer audio"? That's the part I really can't understand. You have a computer playing audio _files_, whether they come from locally attached storage or over a network. There's very, very little difference.

"Unwanted viewpoints"? I love that. Yes, you don't like having it pointed out that your understanding of computer audio is a little odd, do you?

 

Nor do I define one as you worded it..., posted on October 9, 2014 at 13:37:54
E-Stat
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I don't define an ext USB drive by how it is powered...

but definitely do in terms of the ability for a device to supply enough current to adequately drive the device.

I have five 2.5" USB hard drives used for backup purposes. They work just fine driven from by desktop computer with ample current needs. They really do require, however, the use of a powered hub between one of those and the Touch in order to use it optimally. And I use 3A linears with both my Touch players!

 

It's NOT a computer, posted on October 9, 2014 at 17:58:36
Sordidman
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Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
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You're far to knowledgable to assert such unsupportable statements

It has more in common with Hue lighbulbs.

The main board has no video port, there's no input device bus, there's no math chip. There's a very limited and one dimensional, 1 slot PCI bus. Very limited and inflexible RAM. No, hard drive, cD drive, or ability to run an USB drive. It has no GUI, you can't load any "real" OS, and you definitly can't install and run third party apps.

Part of a definiton of somethng has to be that thing's goal or intention. There is nothing in it's intention other than playing music. It can't do Email, word processing, or cook you lunch.

It is no more a computer than any modern CD player, that it so closely matches.

no one, including me, is going to define, or refer to these devices as computers. Smartphones are far more like computers than these streamers, and they are far more "computer-like" than any streamer/cd player and people still call smartphones, PHONES.

You trying to assert something else is just ridiculous. An avocado is not a grape.

Grow up.


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: It's NOT a computer, posted on October 9, 2014 at 19:40:12
AbeCollins
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There's a very limited and one dimensional, 1 slot PCI bus.

If it's very limited it is because the designer deliberately limited the software to what he will allow in his system.

PCI Express (Peripheral Component Interconnect Express), officially abbreviated as PCIe, is a high-speed serial computer expansion bus standard designed to replace the older PCI, PCI-X, and AGP bus standards.

 

Thanks for the elucidation, posted on October 10, 2014 at 09:19:16
Sordidman
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Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
Of course, one small clarification, about 1 small portion of the argument matters not....


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: It IS a COMPUTER......., posted on October 10, 2014 at 10:47:27
AbeCollins
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February 2, 2002

That small clarification based on the information you provided about 1 small portion of the argument matters significantly because.....

- It invalidates your statement the device is NOT a computer.

- You pointed out the fact that is has a PCI slot which means there's a greater than 99% chance the device is a COMPUTER.

Other devices that have PCI slots are PCI expansion chassis to expand the number of PCI slots of a computer. And it's not one of those.

I don't know of other devices other than the two mentioned above that have PCI slots. Maybe someone elso in this forum does.

As best I can tell, it IS a computer.



 

So is my CD player, refergerator, phone, and Hue lightbulb, posted on October 10, 2014 at 13:18:59
Sordidman
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Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
Just because it happens to have a PCI slot does not change the intention or goal of a multi-faceted, computing machine.

Before it's a computer, it would have to have a GUI, video port, have the capability of loading an OS that is capable of adding & running at least several apps, : including typical internet browsers, Email, word processing etc. it needs HIDs like mice & keyboards, add-on peripheral capability- and on and on....

Is a Squeezebox a computer? No one thinks of that in the same sense that we think of a MAC Mini, or a Dell Optiplex.

That goal, intention, and expectation of what a streamer does is to ONLY play back music, - just like a Squeezebox. The hardware is different on the Sim Audio Mind, but its purpose is the same as a Squeezebox.

JMAC is wrongly trying to assert that when you buy a Sim Audio Mind, - you're buying a mainboard/motherboard that is a computer mainboard. It is not, and it is not the only criteria for DEFINING it to the exclusion of all others. There are elements that ARE similar, but they are mostly different, - both with the mainboard and other components. These devices can only be used for 1 purpose, and only share 1 of the many purposes that we think of when we talk about a computer.

And what about the Sonore? Do we have to call it a computer? It has a custom designed mainboard, that has no PCI slot, (and even fewer of components on the mainboard).

I didn't even mention the other important elements of good SQ, like power supply, SPDIF outs, quality alloy connectors, (in some cases, point-to-point wiring), that are decidedly not a part of the commercial computer paradigm, that are essential to good SQ.

The definition of computer is NOT a PCI slot.






"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: So is my CD player, refergerator, phone, and Hue lightbulb, posted on October 10, 2014 at 13:45:07
Sprezza Tura
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Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
There are still folks who engage in the false equivalency of mass produced computers (with a commercial O/S pre loaded, display, and multi-purpose architecture) and a purpose built-for audio product.

A 2014 car is a computer too. But it is a purpose built transportation device.

 

Zackly!, posted on October 10, 2014 at 13:58:33
Sordidman
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Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
My assumption: and it may be erroneous..

They're naysayers who are trying to say things like an off the shelf PC sounds as good as a streamer and that streamers are no different. And extrapolating, - that doing things like replacing power supplies in off the shelf computers won't make a difference in SQ.

Thanks,

Cheers,



"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

or not, posted on October 10, 2014 at 18:35:02
J.Mac
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Posts: 3553
Location: Colorado
Joined: November 6, 2002
Oh, please. Enough with the "naysayer" bullshit.

Just because you refuse to admit that these devices contain computers that are no different than the one you use to browse the Internet, does not mean that anyone has some other motivation for trying to set you straight.

I don't know why that upsets your world-view so much. You really seem to have been take aback by the very knowledgeable responses posted by Dave_K below. Like someone just revealed to you that there is no Santa Claus or something.

 

Your rant..., posted on October 10, 2014 at 21:51:09
AbeCollins
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February 2, 2002
I'm not even going to spend the time to read your entire rant. I simply corrected you with FACTUAL information which you seem to have a hard time understanding or maybe you just have a hard time admitting when you are flat out WRONG.

No harm, no foul. Believe what you want.




 

RE: So is my CD player, refergerator, phone, and Hue lightbulb, posted on October 10, 2014 at 21:58:42
AbeCollins
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Posts: 46196
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since:
February 2, 2002

Sure, a purpose built audio product based on mass produced commodity computing..... The same stuff most folks here have been DIYing and tweeking.

Sordidman said, "Its' NOT a computer".

It IS a computer so he is flat out wrong. What's the beef? This is a black and white Yes/No issue. I wasn't arguing the intent of the device, just setting the record straight with factual information.

I'm amazed at how many people here go ballistic when presented with indisputable FACT. ;-)


 

RE: Hardly - No it is, posted on October 11, 2014 at 07:42:52
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
Mine can be set to auto diagnose and send information to the maker for support.

Never used it and don't see the point. They are not goinf to offer a replacement to cure it from gurgling very odd noises - rather unfridge like.

 

RE: Your rant...What about your, posted on October 11, 2014 at 07:44:35
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
pointless, silly ones.

 

RE: Your rant...What about your, posted on October 11, 2014 at 09:29:45
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46196
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since:
February 2, 2002

Pointless silly what's? The FACTS? Can you elaborate?

 

RE: Of course the Auralic, Mind, and Brystson all sound, posted on October 11, 2014 at 11:46:39
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
What DAC was used to show these dramatic differences in sound quality? Were there any reclockers or conversion boxes between the computer and the DAC?


Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

It wasn't a rant: just a right definition, posted on October 11, 2014 at 17:41:07
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
It is the truth, no matter what either of us believe.

You don't have any grounds to address my points, so you attach a label to what I said & run away.
Fine, but you're wrong




"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

You presented no facts. -t, posted on October 11, 2014 at 17:42:11
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
Z



"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: So is my CD player, refergerator, phone, and Hue lightbulb, posted on October 11, 2014 at 17:50:05
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
No, a PCI slot does not make it a commercial computer:in the same sense that people call a multi-purpose device.

A chair is a device made for sitting. That is a great definition of a chair because it excludes all other items & defines ITS PURPOSE!! It could be a good chair, a bad chair, a comfortable chair, etc.

The purpose of the squeezebox is a streamer: it doesn't have a PCI slot. NO ONE calls the Squeezebox a computer.

The Sonore also does not have a PCI Slot: it also is not a computer

The Bryston has the same PURPOSE as the Squeezebox: but it does have a PCI slot

You are simply wrong!



"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

Your post is not true, posted on October 11, 2014 at 17:52:23
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
"No different than the one you use to browse the Internet"

That statement is not true

I would like to extend to you an invitation to read.



"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: It wasn't a rant: just a right definition, posted on October 11, 2014 at 18:45:55
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46196
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since:
February 2, 2002
What ARE you talking about?

You said It's NOT a computer.

I said, It IS a computer. Simple FACT.

Done.



 

FACT:, posted on October 11, 2014 at 23:27:00
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46196
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since:
February 2, 2002

- You said, It's NOT a computer.

- I said, It IS a computer.

- I provided sufficient FACTUAL evidence to back my claim.

FACT: You are wrong.

FACT: I am correct.

Simple. Done.

 

Definitions are arbitrary. Also, a case of function vs mechanism, posted on October 12, 2014 at 10:42:48
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
The finger pointing here comes from different definitions, particularly a definition based on function vs. a definition based on mechanism. Definitions are social conventions and are arbitrary. It is not a question of "right" or "wrong".

By the way, Internet connected TVs have already been hacked to spy in people. I believe that hackers are working on smart refrigerators. It is only a matter of time before smart light bulbs get hacked. (Smart lights are already in heavy industrial use for theater's and home use is starting.) Any device that can be hacked may expose the internal computing mechanism and thereby provide a computing function for the benefit of a (possibly malevolent) hacker.

Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

thanks, know my reasoning is sound, posted on October 12, 2014 at 18:32:39
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
when you refuse to address my points


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

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