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New streamer from Accustic Arts
108.169.2.66 |
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Posted on October 2, 2014 at 09:53:59 | ||
Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco Joined: May 14, 2001 |
Is the place to talk about new streamers? Not a multi-purpose commercial computer: seems like digital file playback should be here?? This streamer has a DAC in it, (that I personally would rather not have), that can be circumvented. "Asylums with doors open wide, Where people had paid to see inside, For entertainment they watch his body twist Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'" |
RE: New streamer from Accustic Arts, posted on October 2, 2014 at 15:59:38 | |
Posts: 1505
Location: Ontario Joined: March 20, 2006 |
The dac is the best part.
Dan Santoni |
But there's pitifully things worth streaming, posted on October 8, 2014 at 02:19:18 | |
Posts: 15703
Location: Copenhagen Joined: March 21, 2005 |
I spent $500 to find that out. |
But there's pitifully little worth streaming, posted on October 8, 2014 at 02:19:55 | |
Posts: 15703
Location: Copenhagen Joined: March 21, 2005 |
I spent $500 to find that out. |
RE: New streamer from Accustic Arts, posted on October 3, 2014 at 11:05:53 | |
Posts: 1843
Joined: March 31, 2008 |
$5,500 The Well Tempered Computer |
RE: Thank you for that informative post, posted on October 3, 2014 at 19:23:20 | |
Posts: 4585
Location: New York City Joined: August 24, 2012 |
Spot on. |
More info & discussion, posted on October 4, 2014 at 13:04:58 | |
The Simaudio MiND is based on the Audivo OEM board and software. Here is a link: http://www.audivo.com/AV/hifi-streaming-emas.html You can see the Audivo board in the middle of the MiND in this picture: http://www.moremusic.nl/moon/180_mind_inside.jpg An intro to the StreamUnlimited alternative is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCL4c61AmBg http://www.streamunlimited.com/support/downloads/product-leaflets/stream700-v25.pdf It's pretty easy to recognize who is using StreamUnlimited or Audivo by looking at an interior picture, or by looking at the app, or both. The BridgeCo chips that are used by StreamUnlimited, Audivo, and the mainstream Japanese companies are an embedded computer on a chip specialized for network audio. These have an ARM processor, system controller, video, audio, USB, Ethernet, and any other interfaces you need on one chip. It runs Linux. Their current products are the DM860 and DM870, with the former having Ethernet only and the latter including a Wi-Fi radio on the chip. A PDF describing the DM870 is here: http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/dm870db.pdf The audio equipment manufacturers can decide which of these features and interfaces they want to offer to the end user based on whatever marketing rationale they come up with. Simaudio took the minimalist route and offered only Ethernet and Wi-Fi with digital out in a small package, which is why the Audivo board in the MiND has several connectors which aren't connected to anything. Whereas Accustic Arts included the optional 3.5" display from StreamUnlimited and digital input and USB. I think this is one of the main reasons why BridgeCo's products have become ubiquitous: Apple working together with BridgeCo to launch AirPlay Anyway... The real reason why I posted was that I think I have a hypothesis why you don't see more transport-only options like the MiND. Most audio equipment manufacturers don't have the resources and expertise to design embedded computers nor to develop the software stack or apps. What they bring to the table is expertise in audio circuit design, power supply design, DACs, etc. These are the things that have the greatest influence on audio quality and it's where the audio equipment manufacturers add value and differentiate themselves. If you take away the analog outputs, then what value do high end audio manufacturers really add? BridgeCo provides an embedded computer, reference/evaluation boards, operating system, software stack, application SDK, and example applications. Then companies like Audivo and StreamUnlimited produce turn-key solutions based on the BridgeCo platform and offer hardware design services and customization/branding of the apps. If all you want is an Ethernet/Wi-Fi to S/PDIF converter, it's basically done. If you take a look at the Simaudio MiND for example, there is hardly any Simaudio engineering expertise to apply in that product. They even use an off-the-shelf wall wart power supply. As a further example, consider the set of products shown below, ranging in price from the $20k Ayon S-5 at the top to the $900 Pro-Ject Stream Box DS at the bottom. These are all based on the same BridgeCo based streaming hardware and software platform, they all have the same 3.5" displays, and more or less have the same Android and iOS apps with different branding and what looks like minimal customization. Where they differ is in the DAC and analog circuit design, with the Ayon including a high end tube rectified power supply in a separate box and a tube output stage, while the Pro-Ject makes due with a wall-wart supply and a pretty generic looking op-amp output. Ayon can make a high margin on their product because there is a lot of high end audio engineering in it; the OEM SteamUnlimited stuff is a relatively small part of what's offered. Pro-Ject can't because all they've added to the StreamUnlimited modules is a very bare bones DAC stage that they probably didn't even design. The same companies could offer transport-only streamers, but they would basically just be the same OEM solution in different casework, and then it would become a race to the bottom on price. That's my hypothesis on why you don't see more products like the Simaudio MiND Ayon S-5 ($20000) Chord DSX1000 ($13000) Accustic Arts Streamer ES ($5500) Krell Connect ($4000) Atoll ST200 ($2500) Musical Fidelity M1CLiC ($2000) Pro-Ject Stream Box DS ($900) |
RE: In addition to the Sonore, the Bryston also does not, posted on October 4, 2014 at 10:08:28 | |
Posts: 6017
Location: Oregon Joined: April 12, 2001 |
I believe these use different boards. |
What misinformation, posted on October 6, 2014 at 05:25:09 | |
I heard the BDP-1 in a full Bryston system with Dynaudio C4 speakers at a show in 2012. Obviously there's no way I can attribute anything specific to the BDP-1 in that context. I've never heard the BDP-2. More importantly, I never made any claims about its sound quality as a transport. You're the one doing that. And I don't know what misinformation you're talking about. That is an off the shelf Mini-ITX computer in there. In the BDP-1, it's a PC Engines ALIX.1D. In the BDP-2, it's an iBase MI890-N4. There is a similarly off the shelf ESI Juli@ PCI sound card providing the digital audio output. Bryston has added two line drivers to buffer the output from the ESI Juia@ card for long cable runs, with one of them converting to balanced for the XLR output. There are two power supplies: an off the shelf Mean Well 5V SMPS, and a Bryston 12V linear supply. Bryston has also added a front panel display and controls. The operating system is Linux, installed on a Compact Flash card. Linux supports the ESI Juli@ out of the box using the ICE 1724 ALSA driver. The only thing that's difficult for a hobbyist to DIY about this is the front panel display & controls and the IR remote controls; they would take a modicum of engineering to integrate. Bryston's 12V linear supply can be replaced with an off the shelf item of equal of better quality. The line drivers that Bryston has added for the XLR and BNC outputs can similarly replaced with off the shelf items, if you even need them. For short cable runs, you can take the output from the ESI Juli@ as is. If you don't need the front panel and IR remote, there's no hardware or software engineering that needs to be done. You just need computer assembly skills and you need to know your way around Linux well enough to configure and troubleshoot a stripped-down headless install. There are plenty of resources on the web to help, such as LinuxMusicians. Lots of people have done this. BTW, I'm not trying to demean the Bryston. Time is valuable and spending $3k for a purpose built optimized audio computer is not a bad deal if you either don't have the skills and inclination to build one or don't have the time. If I were building one, I would end up spending at least $1k on parts alone. An open question is whether a Mini-ITX computer + sound card works better than an Audivo or StreamUnlimited. Personally, I'm not thrilled about either approach because they both result in sending synchronous SPDIF/AES3 to a DAC which is a fundamentally flawed approach, but that's a whole other argument. |
Which two pictures do you mean? (nt), posted on October 6, 2014 at 10:45:46 | |
nt |
Thanks..........nt, posted on October 8, 2014 at 16:06:46 | |
Posts: 18251
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area Joined: September 2, 2000 Contributor Since: May 16, 2021 |
nt
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RE: Your rant...What about your, posted on October 11, 2014 at 07:44:35 | |
Posts: 13158
Location: Kent Joined: June 1, 2002 |
pointless, silly ones. |
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