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Feetz

75.71.37.161

Posted on May 14, 2015 at 16:09:30
throwback
Audiophile

Posts: 762
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 8, 2003
"It's quiet out there, Slim. Yeah, too quiet, Dusty. Time to stir things up a bit."

My system is still sounding glorious with Ralph's Atmas and Danny Ritchie's LS-9s. In fact, I was just thinking it couldn't get any better: But then it did!

Doug Hurlburt (Dynamic Sounds Associates) sent me some Critical Mass RIZE footers to put under his Phono II and Pre I to replace the Vibrapods that they came with. I was unprepared for the positive change they made, first with the Phono II and additionally with the Pre I.

So, just curious: have you guys played with different feet on your Atmas?


 

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RE: Feetz, posted on May 14, 2015 at 17:29:36
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
Under my modified MA240 monoblocks, I use the large size brass cones from Mapleshade. Under my MP1 audio section, I use expensive commercial feet the name of which eludes me. Under its PS, I think I use Herbie's ball/cup feet. I always use 3 feet, never 4. I can only say that the amplifiers do benefit from the Mapleshade cones, compared to just sitting them on their respective shelves (butcher block sitting on Sound Anchors amplifier stands which use Audio Physics cone feet).

 

RE: Feetz, posted on May 15, 2015 at 11:20:37
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
I don't have an amp by Ralph......yet. But I do want to chime in on the importance of vibration isolation. Vibrapods are better than nothing but there is a lot out there that is much better as you found out. Sources always benefited most for me compared to amps. I do use 60 pound CJ SS amps so that may be part of the reason. I have Herbies Tenderfeet under them I think.


E
T

ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

RE: Feetz, posted on May 15, 2015 at 11:23:14
throwback
Audiophile

Posts: 762
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 8, 2003
Interesting, Lew. I have the same setup -- partially, at least. I have the Sound Anchor stands with butcher blocks under my Atmas. Hadn't thought about brass Mapleshades though. I'm still astounded by how much difference the Critical Mass footers made under my phono and pre. Even had a salutary effect on my digital setup.

 

RE: Feetz, posted on May 15, 2015 at 12:11:30
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
Feet do make a difference, but I am not willing to use the superlatives found in a Mapleshade catalog. I am also a big believer in DIY feet and tweaks in general. For my turntables in slate plinths (which I also made or had made for me), I use small cans of Mandarin Orange slices in water. At the bottom of each can I glued Black Diamond Racing tiptoes, because they were given to me for free. There is a method to this madness; I hypothesize that energy is dissipated as heat in the watery content of the cans. The orange slices (or whatever) serve to keep the water in disorder for better capacity to dissipate energy. The tiptoes assure that downforce is transferred up into the contents of the can (and down from the can into the shelf), via the thinner metal of the top and bottom of any "tin can", rather than along its stiff sidewalls. Best of all, I can believe whatever I want.

I did determine that Mandarin Orange slices sound a bit better than Sauer Kraut, probably because the former cans have a much higher water content. You can't go wrong at $2 per foot, plus the value of the tiptoes.

 

RE: Feetz, posted on May 16, 2015 at 05:26:35
throwback
Audiophile

Posts: 762
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 8, 2003
Hmmm. I DO have some Black Diamond Racing cones and pucks . . . .

 

RE: Feetz, posted on May 16, 2015 at 08:53:14
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10911
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
Any tiptoes would have been ok with me. I used the BDR cones because they were there, in a drawer in my listening room. The only tiptoe/cone that I ever perceived as slightly superior to others are the Goldmund cones. I have a stash of those, but they are too dear to have used them on the turntable "feet".

 

Another alternative, posted on May 19, 2015 at 07:15:05
CometCKO
Audiophile

Posts: 873
Joined: August 9, 2002
I think you're right, the biggest benefit is for small signal devices and mechanical transducers.

My turntable is sitting on a wall-mounted shelf. Recently I hung my phono stage (Aesthetix Rhea) underneath the shelf using rubber tarp straps (ghetto solution). No other changes -- prior to that the Rhea was on a short solid cherry table underneath. I was unprepared for how much better my LP's sound! Mostly in the form of better transient response such as starting/stopping of notes, especially cymbals and snare drums. Everything sounds a bit more relaxed.

I've also had cases where applying flexible silicone putty beneath large coupling caps has improved preamps or amps I've been building. Tricky stuff, this vibration business! Herbie's (or other) silicone tube rings have also made perceptible improvements in some of my small-signal devices. Most of the time I use these things as a rule of thumb and never test to see whether they really make a difference.

My kit-based Atma-Sphere M60's have myrtle blocks to a maple platform and Herbie's dots? blobs? to the floor. I did no critical listening when adding these, but my impression was an improvement in overall presentation, sound-stage if you like. Sonic holography is lost on me, since I only have good hearing in one ear, the other stops at 5,000 Hz.

So this stuff seems to matter, but it also seems very idiosyncratic. I have a rich friend with vibraplanes and he swears by them, and at them -- he had to add weight to the platform to get it to work properly. His system sounds great, but hard to say how much incremental benefit he gets from his tweaks.

Very much a black art and hit-or-miss results. Not sure how much generalizeable learning we can find here.


"Knowing what you don't know is, in a sense, omniscience"

 

FWIW...and I'm no quick-to-hear-the-differences GEA..., posted on March 20, 2016 at 16:28:17
jeffreybehr
Audiophile

Posts: 5699
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Joined: December 10, 2004
Contributor
  Since:
December 13, 2004
...I believe that eliminating as much vibration within the device--such as the large, RINGING-LIKE-BELLs top-and-bottom panels too many manufacturers use--should be damped to death--the death of the ringing, of course.

I recall that the transformer and bottom covers of a pair of $21K RR WAVAC 805-based SETs truly rang like bells when thumped until I damped them with SoundCoat*.
 photo 2014 Jan 12_bottomcover w SoundCoat_1200w_zpsx5o2nzi6.jpg

Here's a bottom plate of the below A-S M-60.
 photo 11Jun2011_bottom damped_1280w_zps3lmb6yzb.jpg

I also use Herbies' tube-damping rings.
 photo Amppad with amp_1280w_zpskiy5odz3.jpg

For my new, on-the-way pair of M-60 Mk.3.3s, probably I'll buy a set of large rings for the top of every output tube.

Then the electronics should be isolated from the vibrations of the equipment cabinet or floor; I've been using Herbies' TenderFoots** for that, but see also http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/20/200517.html for VERY inexpensive antivibration pads.

These are my opinions, of course, but every time I add damping to my equipment, the sound is smoother--more relaxing and more like real music--AND more resolved.

* I use SoundCoat the Thicker...
http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/soundcoat-gp-p-4620
...for that, and it works better than, say, one or two layers of Dynamat Extreme...and of course one wouldn't want to get the latter's butyl-based layer and aluminum-foil backing...anywhere near any panel that gets too hot to touch with the backs of one's fingers. :-(

** 'Tenderfoot' is a trademark of Herbies' for his equipment feet. I've never seen him use the plural form 'Tenderfeet', so 'Tenderfoots' it is!

 

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