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Batiashvili's new Tchaikovsky VC, really looking forward to it, but....

98.208.117.121
Posted on January 15, 2017 at 08:23:38
jdaniel@jps.net
 The first mov't was a real slog, IMOH.

Another example of a young artist "re-thinking" every note, and--unlike the testimony of most reviewers--her interpretation didn't sound authoritative or even remotely inevitable to me. Right at the beginning, it seems to take forever for Ms. Batiashvili to alight upon the main theme. The mov't goes for 19 minutes. I don't know if that's average, but...

Heifetz is my current favorite, and he and Reiner never fail to get the blood rushing and toe tapping. At around 15 mins, the 1st mov't goes by quick, but no there's no stinting on the poetry, IMHO. (To be fair, there's a small cut but I can't remember which mov't.)

Although the Heifetz is from RCA's golden age, the sound has some very occasional rough edges, but I don't care. OTOH, DGG provide Barenboim and Batiashvili with a very warm and comfy sound. One of my first "digital" DGGs in a long, long time, and I'm very pleaseed with the progress.

 

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I knew it! Plus, she's got Barenboim hanging like a millstone around her neck! [nt] ;-), posted on January 15, 2017 at 12:03:04
Chris from Lafayette
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RE: I knew it! Plus, she's got Barenboim hanging like a millstone around her neck! [nt] ;-), posted on January 15, 2017 at 12:09:43
ahendler
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 Or she's the milstone around Barenboim.
Alan

 

LOL! Well, one of the two possibilities anyway! [nt] ;-), posted on January 15, 2017 at 13:06:02
Chris from Lafayette
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Ugh, just what I don't need, posted on January 15, 2017 at 13:38:04
rbolaw
 Another less than ideal Tchaikovsky VC. Funny you mention the Heifetz RCA version. He was da man, he could really play that piece (no offence intended, John Marks, YMMV), but gosh durn does he ever take off at a fast tempo. Did he need to get out of Chicago tout suite?

Check out Repin and Gergiev.

 

Don't get me wrong, if people like a wallow,they'll love it, posted on January 15, 2017 at 13:59:57
jdaniel@jps.net
 and full disclosure: I didn't download the 2nd and 3rd mov'ts. Maybe it's better presented all of a piece.

The 1st mov't is just so sprawling that I personally couldn't wrap my mind around it.

 

If it's wallowing you want..., posted on January 15, 2017 at 14:43:44
Ivan303
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Wallowing you get!

Wife heard it while driving and demanded I find it to stream as she had never heard anything like it.

Neither had I.

"Florence Foster Jenkins takes up the violin."


First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

I like the Heifetz,but, posted on January 15, 2017 at 15:11:16
vinyl phanatic
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 the cut that Reiner makes in the orchestral tutti in the middle of the first movement, makes me nuts.

 

For starters, I absolutely love the pic. That's one serious grandma. nt , posted on January 15, 2017 at 16:45:46
jdaniel@jps.net
 .

 

Not to mention the Auer cuts in the last movement! [nt], posted on January 15, 2017 at 17:04:12
Chris from Lafayette
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RE: If it's wallowing you want..., posted on January 15, 2017 at 19:39:28
Diogenes
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 I think it's terrrrific!!

 

RE: Not to mention the Auer cuts in the last movement! [nt], posted on January 15, 2017 at 19:51:27
ahendler
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 My favorite is Vadim Repin with Kirov orch and Valery Gergiev
Saw him do it live Very introspective but still with plenty of power
Alan

 

I thought it was worth a listen..., posted on January 15, 2017 at 20:23:09
Ivan303
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 Cadenza from HELL, but it worked for me.

the wife?

Not so much.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

I'm sure Repin is excellent - so are J-Fi and Nicola, posted on January 16, 2017 at 00:40:32
Chris from Lafayette
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 And I won't pass up the opportunity to post pics of the album covers:



Reminds me of the time I saw Nicola perform the Tchaikovsky live. Ah! The memories!

 

RE: Batiashvili's new Tchaikovsky VC, really looking forward to it, but...., posted on January 16, 2017 at 07:29:44
srl1
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 My reaction to this recording (both Tchaikovsky and Sibelius) is much closer to Gramophone's (January Recording of the Month) than yours. I find her fresh take exciting and valid, and Barenboim is in complete sympathy backing her up with a wonderful orchestral accompaniment.

I agree that the Heifetz/Reiner Tchaikovsky is the gold standard. It is a light, fleet, self-propelled performance that is always a delight to hear. But there are many ways to play these concertos, and this new album shows how excellent other ways can be. You might want to listen to the rest of the album. It's available on Tidal, Apple Music, and maybe Spotify.

 

I guess they didn't rent enough time at the Medinah Temple, posted on January 16, 2017 at 11:03:22
rbolaw
 those RCA cheapskates. Little did they know we'd still be talking about that recording session 60+ years later. Today's hot babes and boy toys better be careful, some day they'll be old and wrinkled but their recorded legacy will still be crystal clear.

 

RE: Not to mention the Auer cuts in the last movement! [nt], posted on January 16, 2017 at 13:08:15
DrChaos
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 I think the cuts are justified.

Tchaikovsky ain't as tight as Beethoven, and beyond his 6th symphony, he could use some editing here and there. Ballet composers need to churn out a certain number of measures in blocks.

 

RE: I guess they didn't rent enough time at the Medinah Temple, posted on January 16, 2017 at 16:03:57
ahendler
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 Was that recording done at Medinah or orchestra hall. I think the latter
Alan

 

That's Germanic academic thinking! ;-), posted on January 16, 2017 at 16:18:57
Chris from Lafayette
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 The same thing used to be said of the Rachmaninoff Second Symphony and Third Piano Concerto (with regard to cuts). I feel sorry that my "imprint" version of the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto was one with the Auer cuts, but I also think that more and more violinists these days play the work with the cuts restored.

 

Yes, at Orchestra Hall on April 19, 1957., posted on January 16, 2017 at 17:42:36
rbolaw
 According to jaschaheifetz.org. Good catch. Actually, I don't think the CSO began to record regularly at the Medinah Temple until circa 1968, so I wasn't thinking too clearly when I wrote that. Martinon and Solti recorded there.

 

RE: Yes, at Orchestra Hall on April 19, 1957., posted on January 16, 2017 at 18:12:51
ahendler
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 Now that I remember it was Decca that did not like Orchestra hall and started using Medinah. Went to a couple of concerts at Medinah with Solti. Sound was terrible
Alan

 

RE: Batiashvili's new Tchaikovsky VC, really looking forward to it, but...., posted on January 16, 2017 at 18:14:41
ahendler
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 Almost fell asleep listening to that slow boring first movement. Also she has a very small tone. Did not like this at all. Repin much better
Alan

 

RE: Batiashvili's new Tchaikovsky VC, really looking forward to it, but...., posted on January 16, 2017 at 18:48:46
jdaniel@jps.net
 Glad you felt the same.

My favorite "mellow" performance is Campoli's from way back when.

 

RE: Yes, at Orchestra Hall on April 19, 1957., posted on January 16, 2017 at 19:22:43
rbolaw
 Interesting. Orchestra Hall wasn't terrible imo, but it wasn't all that great either. I read that when Artur Rodzinski took the music director post with the CSO, he demanded that the CSO move out and was promptly fired as a result.
The Medinah Temple was just too big to work for a classical symphony orchestra concert, in my opinion. But that doesn't mean it couldn't work as a recording venue, right? Isn't that your area of expertise, Alan? I think RCA had better results using Symphony Hall in Boston, although I read they would put the orchestra in the audience area rather than on stage for recording.

 

Obviously, I haven't heard this new recording, but. . . , posted on January 16, 2017 at 19:48:52
Chris from Lafayette
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 . . . I'd say that Lisa's earlier recordings are realistically balanced (i.e., without the violin overbalanced in the texture) - these recordings are much more realistic than the balance which, for instance, Heifetz demanded (and usually received from RCA). As I've said before, Heifetz's Beethoven Sonata set sounds like his pianist is in the next room! Sometimes, when we hear a more realistic balance, it may seem for a while as if the violinist in question is not playing with a BIG TONE.

 

RE: Yes, at Orchestra Hall on April 19, 1957., posted on January 16, 2017 at 19:54:51
ahendler
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 The original orchestra hall where they did all the original great Living Stereo recordings was a great hall for recording and listening. But because the stage was so wide and shallow the musicians had a hard time hearing each other, so they did a major renovation pretty much ruining the acoustics. They have done a couple more renovations and have improved it some but it has never returned to its earlier glory. Boston is a great hall. When they used to record there they extended the stage out into the audience. I don't believe they do that any more. Also most recording today is of live concerts
Alan

 

RE: Obviously, I haven't heard this new recording, but. . . , posted on January 16, 2017 at 19:57:03
ahendler
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 Agree. Heifetz used to yell at Louis Layton "be sure I am well out front of the orchestra"
Alan

 

Yes, but *edited* live concerts. nt, posted on January 17, 2017 at 08:18:07
rbolaw

 

RE: That's Germanic academic thinking! ;-), posted on January 17, 2017 at 08:32:57
rbolaw
 The Rach 2nd cuts, at least those used by Kurt Sanderling in his 1956 DG recording, go too far and hurt the overall result, imo. As you doutbless already know, the Rach 4th piano concerto was significantly revised and shortened by the composer. In some ways I like the original better.

Those elaborate lengthy development sections are very much part of the Rach aesthetic. Brevity and elegant classical restraint ain't his thing. I say, celebrate an artist for what he did best, don't complain that he didn't do something else.

 

Yup - I also much prefer the original (longer) version of the Second Sonata, posted on January 17, 2017 at 09:36:51
Chris from Lafayette
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 Regarding the Fourth Concerto, I have the Rudy/Jansons EMI/Warner recording of the original last movement - I haven't heard the other two movements in their original form. In this case, it's a hard call for me to choose between the original and revised versions of the work. I like them both.

I think that Amphissa mentioned that he's heard the original version of the First Piano Sonata (said to be about 45 minutes long - sounds like a Second Symphony for piano solo!). I've never been able to find a performance or, for that matter, the sheet music to the original version of this work, but that's something I'd relish if I got the opportunity.

 

RE: Yes, but *edited* live concerts. nt, posted on January 17, 2017 at 12:12:15
ahendler
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Location: San Antonio, Texas
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 Almost all classical music recordings whether done in the studio or live are edited. I used to love cutting tape
Alan

 

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