Something Different

I completely resent his statements about Dead Musicians-, posted on December 6, 2016 at 09:54:20
oldmkvi Audiophile Posts: 10581 Joined: April 12, 2002	They are the innovators that paved the way for others. "More disciplined than Coltrane?" I doubt it.

+1 /n, posted on December 6, 2016 at 11:21:47
Ivan303 Audiophile Posts: 48887 Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM Joined: February 26, 2001	n First they came for the dumb-asses And I did not speak out Because I was not a dumb-ass

RE: Something Different, posted on December 6, 2016 at 11:22:23
GEO Audiophile Posts: 4749 Joined: April 7, 2000 Contributor Since: September 9, 2000	Language is kind of harsh but I read it as, "support living musicians". Everyone know the contributions those Giants have made. I should have read through it before I linked it but the essence of the article is what I picked up.....nobody is more dedicated than John Coltrane was....that is probably a certainty...in probably any field actually.

RE: I completely resent his statements about Dead Musicians-, posted on December 6, 2016 at 11:24:08
GEO Audiophile Posts: 4749 Joined: April 7, 2000 Contributor Since: September 9, 2000	+10

No reason why ya can't listen to both old and new, dead and alive., posted on December 6, 2016 at 13:14:01

Rick W

I listen to a very wide variety of jazz as well as a wide variety of other idioms, according to my mood at the time. No need to limit listening at all.

Blow off listening to Coleman Hawkins/Prez/Ben Webster/Gene Ammons etc. and just listen to guys around after the previous generation died? Blow off Duke to listen to Darcy - blow off Gil to listen to Maria Schneider? Blow off Miles and just listen to Pelt. Idiotic.

Jazz is a continuum. No Armstrong, no Dizzy. No Coleman Hawkins, no Rollins. No Bill Evans, no Bill Charlap. The author, while no doubt well meaning, has gone off the edge.

RE: Something Different, posted on December 6, 2016 at 13:15:24

rrsands
Audiophile

Posts: 2568
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: July 11, 2001

There's plenty of room to enjoy all eras of jazz and the talented folk that entertain and inspire.

I'd add Roy Hargrove as a trumpet suggestion. Love Ear Food.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI12NlsKfDg

Ambrose Akinmusire is very creative.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39OSgZ3bQBw

For sax, James Carter is very good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLpdNgw-7bE

Charlie Hunter on guitar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HJQJzUwRMk

RE: No reason why ya can't listen to both old and new, dead and alive., posted on December 6, 2016 at 16:50:00
GEO Audiophile Posts: 4749 Joined: April 7, 2000 Contributor Since: September 9, 2000	I agree but there is a large contingent of jazz enthusiast that believes jazz ended in 1964.

Well said, Rick., posted on December 6, 2016 at 17:00:01

rbolaw

Funny, I see the same thing in classical music. When a composer dies, he/she is suddenly viewed differently. I think part of that is because it then becomes easier to sum up the significance of that composer's total impact and influence on our culture. Also, some try to encourage living composers to keep up the good work, because there's no point trying to encourage dead composers.
Other than that, I see no reason to draw any distinction.

I know, but that guys's rap/methodology to get new artists heard and appreciated sucks., posted on December 6, 2016 at 19:24:49
Rick W	You don't encourage listening to new music/players to the exclusion of classic and/or innovative dead musicians. IMO it makes a helluva more sense to come from something like " Hey, I know you love Ornette. Ever heard William Parker's group with this alto player named Rob Brown"?"

Instead of?!?!!?!?!?..., posted on December 6, 2016 at 21:29:22
musetap Audiophile Posts: 31874 Location: San Francisco Joined: July 8, 2003 Contributor Since: January 28, 2004	Nice he's celebrating living jazz players; shame he can't do it without being an obnoxious prick. "Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure

RE: Something Different, posted on December 6, 2016 at 23:32:22

belyin
Audiophile

Posts: 1285
Location: New Orleans
Joined: November 1, 2003

I am surprised this article is generating such hostility; clearly it is written in a silly consumerist style trying to sell hipness, but I think the larger point-that there are many great artists in the jazz world today building on the past but finding their own voice and direction-needs to be heard more often in the mainstream press. And what impresses me about this article is that isn't promoting the usual suspects (i.e., what ever the Blue Note is pushing this month,) but rather some very serious artists who operate far outside the commercial music world. Another point the author doesn't make but could is that most of these musicians are very approachable as human beings, very generous with their time and talent, and not at all hung up on star trips. They travel the world, looking for like minded people to perform with and for audiences who will give them a listen and offer support, but they refuse to become products to be consumed.

RE: I know, but that guys's rap/methodology to get new artists heard and appreciated sucks., posted on December 7, 2016 at 09:23:29

GEO
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Posts: 4749
Joined: April 7, 2000
Contributor
Since: September 9, 2000

You have to start with a foundation. I believe you have to get through the old to get to the new. I just know too many people that "love" jazz but only listen to a certain period of jazz and then say, well he ain't no Coltrane or he ain't no JJ or he ain't no Monk.....as a matter of fact, I am constantly arguing with the guy the gave me my first few jazz records to listen too. He is still stuck at where he was 30 years ago. I think it is sad for the current artists.

I agree, it is good to connect the young guys with the old...like if you like Don Byas, then you might like some James Carter (I am not a big James Carter fan but he is heavy into Don Byas, which is not always apparent) or if you like Hannibal you might like Ambrose Akinmusire or if you like Woody Shaw you may like Alex Sipiagin. I try to do that for friends.

RE: Something Different, posted on December 7, 2016 at 09:25:10
GEO Audiophile Posts: 4749 Joined: April 7, 2000 Contributor Since: September 9, 2000	Yep. The writer's comments on Coltrane were kind of harsh but I was focused on the essence of the article. A good documentary is called Giants Among Us. It is worth watching.

RE: Instead of?!?!!?!?!?..., posted on December 7, 2016 at 19:48:19

Awe-d-o-file
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Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004

I missed that part. I thought the idea of comparing new to old with video links to each was interesting. I wasn't gaga over his writing style but I didn't see obnoxious. He made salient points. I did think it was brave to pose the option of classic greats to new artists as he did.

ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

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Something Different

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