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Who woulda thunk it? New A. Davis Messiah recording in his own Beechamesque re-orchestration!

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Posted on October 11, 2016 at 10:18:59
Chris from Lafayette
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 I was prepared to live the rest of my life secure in the dreadful knowledge that any new recording of Handel's "Messiah" would surely partake of the HIP sacraments, with sins such as vibrato and other niceties banished to the nether regions. Apparently, not so!

A new recording on the Chandos label offers us a fresh look at the work through conductor Andrew Davis' Beechamesque (or is it Goosensesque? LOL!) reorchestration, even though Davis seems to have approached his task on bended knee, as he notes: "Everything I have done instrumentally stems from the enormous respect, even awe, which I feel towards this supreme masterpiece". Yeah, well that figures! Davis is one of those conductors who has always struck me as so respectful, so unwilling to rock the boat, and so middle-of-the-road that almost every one of his recorded performances is afflicted with terminal blandness. (Yes, I DID rave about his album of Berlioz Overtures a couple of years ago, but, despite the spectacular SQ that Chandos obtained in Bergen, I find that his safe interpretations haven't worn as well as I thought they might.)

In any case, listeners can hear the mini-excerpts on Chandos' Classical Shop site (link below) and decide for themselves. I listened to about four excerpts myself, and wasn't that impressed with Erin Wall's "Rejoice" (compared to some other sopranos I've heard in this work). Still, the whole concept is so intriguing (and surprising!) that I'm tempted to spring for the downlaod (at 24/192 no less!). And as the British pound continues to sink lower and lower (post Brexit), it's less of a drain on my resources than it would have been earlier in the year - LOL!

 

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Yeah, who needs clarity of line? : ), posted on October 11, 2016 at 10:35:48
jdaniel@jps.net
 I love the Beecham; (I knew Beecham and Davis is no Beecham). I also love Parrot's with Kirkby. Why can't both be enjoyed without the Jihadesque absolutism? : )

Seriously, I hope Davis' is at least half as charming and endearing as Beecham's and if we're lucky, the Beecham will be out in 24 bit soon. (Britten's Peter Grimes Universal download was beyond my wildest expectations. More please!)


OT but eclassical has Gurrelieder available to sample in complete scenes. I swear Tove is a closet chain smoker-- gasps between almost every note!

 

Sometimes, those re-orchestrations make the lines even clearer! [nt] ;-), posted on October 11, 2016 at 10:41:48
Chris from Lafayette
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BTW, I'm downloading it right now, posted on October 11, 2016 at 12:09:06
Chris from Lafayette
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 Typical glacial pace with the Chandos Classical Shop Download Manager however: one hour into it, and 10 of 46 tracks have been downloaded. (Of course, I do appreciate that 5.1 channels of a 24/192 bit depth and sample rate in a work of this length is a LOT of data!)

I'll check more of the Gurrelieder sample tracks later.

 

RE: BTW, I'm downloading it right now, posted on October 11, 2016 at 13:11:53
srl1
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 Please report that the Hallelujah Chorus includes trombones and cymbals... Fingers crossed :)

 

Beecham has gong too, doesn't it? Hope it's as charming and spirited! Nt, posted on October 11, 2016 at 13:20:41
jdaniel@jps.net
 M

 

That sounds like an unusually long time. Nt, posted on October 11, 2016 at 13:24:30
jdaniel@jps.net
 M

 

Three and a half hours - it's halfway done, posted on October 11, 2016 at 14:49:58
Chris from Lafayette
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 I don't know what it is with the Classical Shop Download Manager and my computer. I checked my download speed a couple of days ago (on one of those third-party sites) and it showed up as 173mbps. So. . . there shouldn't be a problem, even with the large file sizes. But of course all sorts of other factors enter into the discussion - I've long wondered whether the download manager's use of Adobe Air has something to do with it. None of the other download sites that I know of use this product. I haven't downloaded anything from The Classical Shop in a long time (probably over a year), so of course I needed a download manager update, and then an Adobe Air update, and then the download finally started. OTOH, it's not that big a deal - I can be doing other stuff in the meantime.

It's actually faster for me NOT to use their download manager, but, OTOH, using the download manager helps keep the tracks organized and, for some reason, keeps the meta information more consistent.

And of course, my most famous story with the Classical Shop download experience was when I downloaded Jarvi's Swan Lake: it took almost two full days (i.e., almost 48 hours) to complete the download. All the other sites I've dealt with are super fast compared to the trickle of data I usually get with Chandos and The Classical Shop. Still, it doesn't bother me that much since the resulting audio files are usually outstanding.

 

I probably won't be able to listen until tonight - I'll let you know [nt], posted on October 11, 2016 at 14:51:19
Chris from Lafayette
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RE: Who woulda thunk it? New A. Davis Messiah recording in his own Beechamesque re-orchestration!, posted on October 11, 2016 at 16:09:23
pbarach
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 Is this the same reorchestration he used in his last recording of the Messiah?
http://www.amazon.com/Handel-Complete-Oratorio-George-Frideric/dp/B000002RPL

 

Wow, a day?? , posted on October 11, 2016 at 17:18:18
jdaniel@jps.net
 I haven't downloaded anything from them yet because I've found their products elsewhere. Maybe anti viral software is interfering.

Only problem I've had -- using wifi to network-- is laptop "losing" Sony mid download, and sometime a segment of music is missing. I used wired connection now.

Still, enjoying listening immensely, and Sony's app turns my tablet into a cool, interactive album cover.

 

Sorry to hear that they apparently haven't improved their servers, despite, posted on October 11, 2016 at 20:57:50
Russell
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 the new, more modern appearance and functionality of their website. Oh well... I'm happy at least that several of the newer Chandos releases are making their way to ProStudioMasters, which is much, much faster.

BTW, did you notice that the new Messiah was actually engineered by the Soundmirror folks? (Like the Toronto Sheherazade.)

Russell

 

Forty Freaking Pounds Sterling for a DOWNLOAD????, posted on October 11, 2016 at 21:53:43
Ivan303
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 That SHOULD take a day to download!





First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

Soundmirror = Pentatone folks, right? Very, very good recordings, posted on October 11, 2016 at 21:54:44
jdaniel@jps.net
 The Chandos I've downloaded so far have been OK; "warm," but not much of a soundstage.

 

RE: Soundmirror = Pentatone folks, right? Very, very good recordings, posted on October 12, 2016 at 00:51:17
Russell
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 For me, Soundmirror will always be the people responsible for the wonderful DSD remasterings of the RCA Living Stereo SACDs.

I think Soundmirror only engineered PentaTone's Pittsburgh Symphony releases. Most other PentaTones are done by their own engineers, many of whom are former Philips people. (Soundmirror also does the Pittsburgh Symphony recordings on Reference Recordings.)

Have you downloaded any of the recent Neeme Jarvi recordings on Chandos (e.g., Chabrier, Saint-Saens, Suppe, Sleeping Beauty, Swan Lake)? Just gorgeous sound, with plenty of soundstage (to me).

Russell

 

RE: Forty Freaking Pounds Sterling for a DOWNLOAD????, posted on October 12, 2016 at 02:28:32
PAR
 Well that is for the surround version which, for reasons beyond me, carries a premium price. The stereo 24/192 version costs 27 pounds. And that is pretty average for download prices in the UK for that format given what in silver disc form is a double album.

Thinks: If you download from the UK to the USA can you buy without the VAT as those prices are inclusive?

Wait a bit as the pound heads towards parity with the dollar. It'll be cheaper for you soon :-)

 

RE: Sorry to hear that they apparently haven't improved their servers, despite, posted on October 12, 2016 at 02:34:02
PAR
 Er, that IS with improved servers ! At least according to an email that they sent me a couple of months ago.

 

Thanks will try some of the Jarvi's. nt, posted on October 12, 2016 at 07:17:05
jdaniel@jps.net
 ,

 

I don't know the earlier A. Davis recording, posted on October 12, 2016 at 07:44:55
Chris from Lafayette
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 I checked the Amazon comments, and a couple of posters mentioned that they did hear brass reinforcements in the earlier recording, so it's possible the two recordings use the same orchestration. OTOH, it's also possible that this new one incorporates some newer tinkering too. ;-)

 

I'm having REAL problems with this download - I'm back to only 5 tracks downloaded now, posted on October 12, 2016 at 07:48:52
Chris from Lafayette
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 Worst download experience ever! I'll report on it once I'm done (which may not be until tomorrow!).

 

So, on a lark...., posted on October 12, 2016 at 12:39:57
srl1
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 I decided to give the FLAC 24/192 stereo download a try. After having to update both the downloader and the Adobe software I successfully downloaded the entire album in 2 hours 20 minutes (with no errors). The resulting downloaded folder is 3.66 G. This is on my "slowski" line from the phone company (10 mbps)! I know the surround files are bigger, but your experience is something else. Maybe its the extra time zones (I'm in Florida) that mess things up... ;)

I hope to give it a listen tonight.

 

Yeah - I suspect there's something on my computer. . . , posted on October 12, 2016 at 15:24:11
Chris from Lafayette
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 . . . that the Chandos Download Manager doesn't like. I'm downloading the files separately now (without the download manager), and, just for comparison, the size of my folder so far is 2.22 GB - and that's just for the first ten tracks.

So maybe you'll be able to let us know what you think of the album before I even get half the tracks re-downloaded? ;-)

 

That's "Goossensesque". Imagine the Scrabble points. nt, posted on October 12, 2016 at 16:49:45
rbolaw

 

Could be Putin. Did Tchaikovsky download faster? Nt, posted on October 12, 2016 at 17:31:01
jdaniel@jps.net
 N

 

Initial thoughts, posted on October 12, 2016 at 18:58:18
srl1
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 I downloaded and listened to the FLAC 24/192 stereo version using USB into my Oppo BDP-105. Overall nice sound quality--not cavernous like some Chandos. It is a live performance from late 2015. Lots of bass, including a lot of organ, but not too much bass, like BIS ;) . Chorus sounds good. I like the soloists except for the tenor. Recording not clear enough to make out all of the words in the chorus (but could be my system). At first the orchestra sounds small, but that might just be an intentional part of the interpretation--build up from the overture. There is much dynamic contrast. As far as the "extras", it's not Beecham/Goossens, but there is a lot of "extras" evident. Kind of a classy, polite version of Beecham/Goossens. Cymbals, snare drum, xylophone, tamborine, bass drum, tam-tam, triangle, etc. I think I heard trombones, too. Sounds like the Reese's of music: my HIP fell into a batch of Beecham.

It moves right along. My attention didn't wander. Good stereo image and depth.

What I'd love is for someone who's a little showy (The Dude?) to come out with a modern recording of the above-mentioned Goossens arrangement. That would be awesome.

 

Hey - what happened to those Chinese hackers?, posted on October 12, 2016 at 23:53:13
Chris from Lafayette
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 It was all Chinese hackers until about a year and a half ago - now you never hear about the Chinese, and it's been all Russians ever since! ;-)

 

Oops! Touché! [nt] ;-), posted on October 12, 2016 at 23:54:20
Chris from Lafayette
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Thanks for your write-up, posted on October 13, 2016 at 00:00:19
Chris from Lafayette
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 I was away most of the day, and, as predicted, I've downloaded (manually) only 24 of the 46 tracks so far. (The size so far is 4.81 GB.)

If Davis' performance sounds like "polite" Beecham, that doesn't sound too promising - maybe I should have put my 40 pounds sterling to a better cause! ;-)

 

All's well that ends well, posted on October 13, 2016 at 21:35:57
Chris from Lafayette
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 I finally got the download finished. I'll post separately about all my tribulations using the Chandos Download Manager.

So the multi-channel FLAC files took 9.13 GB of disk space - but per my usual procedure, I converted these files to AIFF, which took another 19.93 GB of disk space. Storage is cheap these days, but that's still a lot of storage!

In answer to an earlier post asking whether the orchestration heard in this new recording is the same as the one heard in Davis' earlier recording on CBS/Sony, I can now tell you that they are not the same at all. As Davis says in his booklet notes
For my performances and recording with the Toronto Symphony Orchestra (TSO) and Toronto Mendelssohn Choir in 1986 I made selective use of the version by the English music scholar Ebenezer Prout (1835 - 1909); and Sir Thomas Beecham's famous recording, which. . . uses the imaginative but overblown (and occasionally even verging on vulgar) orchestration made especially for the project by Sir Eugene Goossens. . .
Oh dear! We wouldn't want anything to verge on the vulgar, would we? Hence, in 2001, Davis made his own new orchestration (which he says dominated his life for five months). I guess that can happen when you're guarding against vulgarity - LOL!

I've listened to only 4 tracks so far, but it's certainly been ear opening, and I thought I'd post a little tease of what I've heard so far, mainly in the Hallelujah chorus. Yes, Davis, like Goossens, uses cymbals, but rather than going all out with them (as on the Beecham recording), he restricts their use to strategic points - not nearly as much fun! OTOH, Davis brings in a part for glockenspiel - thumbs way up for this idea! In the booklet notes for the recording, Davis mentions that he includes a part for jingle bells at one point - I'm afraid that passed me by and I'll be listening again closely tomorrow in order to spot their use. Near the end, he employs strong organ pedal tones in the balance as well as what sounds like a immense bass drum roll - jdaniel, run for the hills! ;-)

Following this, "I know that my Redeemer liveth" uses a solo clarinet rather than strings for the opening statement of the theme - I have to say that this choice sounds kind of wishy-washy and weak to me. But as you can no doubt surmise, detailing all the different instrumental choices that Davis made in his new orchestration will no doubt prove entertaining and amusing. My schedule is still really terrible, and I may not get in a full listen until Sunday - when I can report further! ;-)

The last thing I'll say in this post is that, in one of the pieces, Davis uses another instrument (besides glockenspiel) which is not heard on the Beecham/Goossens album: the marimba! So even though Andy-boy sought to avoid vulgarity, there still might be some fun in the other pieces too! ;-)

 

Now I've heard the whole performance, and Madeline has heard some tracks too, posted on October 16, 2016 at 16:39:47
Chris from Lafayette
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 Her reaction to Davis' assignment of the main theme in "I know my Redeember liveth" to the clarinet was as follows: "OMG! That is SO LAME!"

And I guess that, overall, I'd have to say that my own reactions vary between amusement and shoulder shrugging over how lame (yes!) some of the re-orchestrations are. Part of the problem is that Davis' orchestration seems to be on the leash of what he considers "good taste", despite the potential for zest and piquancy in some of the instruments he uses. I re-listened to the "Hallelujah" Chorus, and, sure enough, I did hear the jingle bells that I'd missed the first time through - and the reason I missed them is because they're kind of buried in the overall texture. (We wouldn't want to get things sounding too vulgar and amped up here!) In contrast to the Goossens re-orchestration, which glories in the shock value of its Wagnerian-sized (or is it Strauss-sized? LOL!) orchestra, Davis seems almost embarrassed by many of his orchestration's departures from Handel's original. (OTOH, Davis does write a spirited defense of his instrumental choices in the booklet notes to this album, so if you do buy this album, you'll have some arguments to back yourself up!)

My hopes for the use of the marimba referenced in my previous post were dashed by its predominant use merely as a doubler of the lines of other instruments. I hate to say this, because it sounds like a cliche of how folks in the US think of Canadians, but the whole thing sounds so CANADIAN! (As the "National Lampoon" advised back in the 60's, if your favorite color is gray, then stop denying your Canadian heritage!)

Even so, I do want to note that the orchestral playing and the choral singing are both top notch IMHO. The soloists, not so much - I've already mentioned that Erin Wall lacks the vocal purity and focus I look for in the solo soprano part, and my wife was aghast at the overly vibrato-laden sound of the bass. Needless to say, he couldn't quite articulate his more fioratura-like passages in his arias nearly as cleanly as other singers I've heard. Of the four soloists, I'd say the alto (sorry, I mean mezzo!) exhibits the fewest problems.

I guess I'll conclude with some random comments on a few other individual numbers:
"Comfort Ye": The use of the harp here reminds me of the Beecham/Goossens version - if you have to steal, steal from the best!

"Thus saith the Lord": Davis throws in the snare drum here - a bit lame, but not as much as the clarinet in "I know my Redeemer liveth".

"The Lord gave the word"/"How beautiful are the feet": Here, Davis uses a tambourine in the more rhythmically active portions - full marks and thumbs up for this idea! Why couldn't he do stuff like this throughout? Also, here is an instance of use of the marimba (doubling the strings of course - c'mon, leave the strings out so we can hear the marimba! And what's with all this doubling anyway? Did Davis learn his orchestration from the works of Robert Schumann? OK - my comment is over the top - I apologize!). ;-)
Of course, there are a lot of other coloristic touches in the other numbers, but I hope I've given folks an idea as to what to expect in this recording. Although much of it IS lame, I still enjoyed it overall, so perhaps that's the ultimate recommendation. And, credit where credit is due, Davis did go out and actually put his neck on the line and create this new orchestration, based on principles he presumably believes in - which is way more than most of us can say for ourselves! ;-)

 

Well, I'm glad you didn't spend a lot or go out of your way to have a listen. nt, posted on October 16, 2016 at 19:58:09
jdaniel@jps.net
 /

 

;-) [nt], posted on October 16, 2016 at 23:21:49
Chris from Lafayette
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