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Ernest Ansermet - French Music

96.83.74.33
Posted on May 1, 2016 at 15:56:33
svisner
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Posts: 1165
Joined: March 30, 2002



I received a few days back a collection (32 CDs) of Ernest Answermet and the Orchestre de la Suisse Romande. )http://www.amazon.com/Ernest-Ansermet-French-Music/dp/B00DT2322E ) There are a number of gems in this set, and I've scratched hardly the surface. Let me note that there any number of recordings of Camille Saint Saens 3rd Symphony (the "Organ Symphony") that are regarded as "all that." Well, I think this recording is "all that" and perhaps a bit more. Recorded in 1964 in Geneva's beaux arts-style Victoria Hall (http://www.ville-ge.ch/culture/victoria_hall/en/ ), this recording is lush; Ansermet's baton is precise; the organ impresses! I hope this Spring and Summer to enjoy each of these disks.

 

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RE: Ernest Ansermet - French Music, posted on May 1, 2016 at 15:57:32
svisner
Audiophile

Posts: 1165
Joined: March 30, 2002
 Victoria Hall, Geneva.

 

I have that Saint Saens 3rd on LP. Agree - very good performance/sound. nt, posted on May 1, 2016 at 16:25:16
Rick W
 nt

 

Ansermet one of my favorite discoveries after going back vinyl. Mt, posted on May 1, 2016 at 17:23:25
jdaniel@jps.net
 N

 

It wouldn't have been a discovery if you were a bit older., posted on May 1, 2016 at 18:06:46
rbolaw
 As a young child listening to classical radio, I quickly noticed how it seemed nearly every orchestral piece was played by Ernest Ansermet and L'Orchestre de la Suisse Romande.
Of course, Ansermet was very enthusiastic and energetic about recording, and especially enthusiastic and energetic about recording in stereo, even though stereo recording began near the end of his long life and career. So he got there firstest with the mostest, as they say. And fortunately, he didn't seem to tail off in old age, so you don't have to go scrambling for early mono 78s.

 

Used to love tuning into classical station which was 120 miles away in San Francisco , posted on May 1, 2016 at 18:21:25
jdaniel@jps.net
 Came in best at night, thru my bedroom stereo. Great discoveries, great times.

 

You can still listen to an SF based classical station, posted on May 2, 2016 at 09:18:14
TGR
Audiophile

Posts: 3002
Location: No. California
Joined: March 22, 2004
 But easier to pick it up now on kdfc.com

They still do the SF Symphony broadcasts, the Met broadcasts, and once a month the SF Opera broadcasts.

 

You have good listening ahead, posted on May 2, 2016 at 09:26:30
andy evans
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Posts: 4382
Joined: October 20, 2000
 Ansermet was as good as or better than most in French music.

I'd be interested if I didn't have a lot of his recordings already.

You might want to go on to his Falla and Stravinsky

 

OMG - Look At That Drop Dead Gorgeous Non-HIP Orchestra, posted on May 2, 2016 at 19:43:40
Newey
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Posts: 537
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Joined: December 26, 2012
 Intolerable!

Look at all of those modern instruments! I could 8 basses. EIGHT!!!

Not 3 or 2 or 1. EIGHT.

I'll bet they use string vibrato all the time.

And, it's a full sized ensemble. Gag.

Such decadent, preposterously outsized corpulence must be stamped out forever.

Long Live Roger Norrington!!!

Rock on.

Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

RE: It wouldn't have been a discovery if you were a bit older., posted on May 2, 2016 at 19:47:57
svisner
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Posts: 1165
Joined: March 30, 2002
 In fact, my father bought a few of these as early stereo records and I thought they sounded great.

 

RE: I have that Saint Saens 3rd on LP. Agree - very good performance/sound. nt, posted on May 2, 2016 at 19:49:29
svisner
Audiophile

Posts: 1165
Joined: March 30, 2002
 I wonder if that LP is available as a reissue,

 

RE: You have good listening ahead, posted on May 2, 2016 at 19:52:40
svisner
Audiophile

Posts: 1165
Joined: March 30, 2002
 I think I may be due a visit to the Victoria Hall. Last year, I visited the Walthanstow Assembly Hall, site of some of the great Everest recordings. No longer a venue for major ensembles, it's still a lovely art deco-style building.

 

And That Hall - Concert Hall of my Dreams - Gorgeous [nt], posted on May 2, 2016 at 20:21:15
Newey
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Posts: 537
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Joined: December 26, 2012
 g
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

Lol is there any pile you don't go out of your way to step in? The Suisse Romande pictured, with its locally , posted on May 2, 2016 at 22:26:06
jdaniel@jps.net
 constructed and quite astringent winds, diaphanous strings and colorful brass was as close to HIP as one could get back then when it comes to producing a wonderfully heterogeneous sound, now lost forever. (I've heard the current Suisse Romande live under Dutoit and they don't sound the same.) Because you've never played in an ensemble, you don't realize that when it comes to projection, numbers don't count as much as the construction of instruments and size of hall. Although 8 basses vs 6 may look visually exciting to you, the actual increase in volume may very well be negligible.
.

I've said over and over again to you newey: put sound before liner notes, your narrative, (or Wikipedia ) and you'll stop making such a fool of yourself.



Norrington's ensemble for Beethoven's 9th. I'm counting at least 6 basses. (Top right.)

 

I cherish those lps. The only Amsermet I'm not sold on is his Debussy with the exception of , posted on May 2, 2016 at 22:36:04
jdaniel@jps.net
 Pelleas and the Images. Ansermet's party scene (during Iberia's finale) is the most vivid and tipsy I know. Otherwise his Debussy is just a bit too cool for my tastes.

 

The Only Pile I've Stepped On Is You - Tone Deaf , posted on May 2, 2016 at 23:02:36
Newey
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 Jeez. EVERYONE knows that the Suisse Romande sounded that way. It comes through on all of those [well made] London/Decca recordings.

However, if you think that, despite their peculiar sound, and their often out of tune winds, that that made them " as close to HIP as one could get back then", you're not just full of s**t, you are s**t, and tone deaf to boot.

ANYONE - even you, Jiminy - may test that out for themselves. Plently of old Ansermet/OSR recordings around. Lots and lots. Such as the ones the author of this thread's just gotten.

All anyone [even tone deaf mofo's] has to do is PLAY one of them - and compare it to some HIP group. ONE on ONE COMPARISON.

Result? THERE IS NO COMPARISON.

Even with all of their perculiarities and problems, the OSR doesn't - REPEAT - DOES NOT - sound like sound vibrato-free HIP-squeek group.

UNLESS------------- YOU'RE TONE DEAF.

Where does that leave YOU??? Ha Ha Ha - waving your arms, screaming -----
"I'M TONE DEAF AND I CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE OSR AND HIPS"

Nice going, Jiminy.

Oh, and there were PLENTY of scrawny sounding orchestras back then. Just one example of many is the Viennese orchestra that Scherchen used. But, I'd guess that to a DEAF BOY, they were "as close to HIP as one could get back then" too. Ha Ha Ha. Everyone was HIP back then. Weeeeeeeeeee.
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

And, What A Slap In The Face of HIPs - Your Freudian Slip, posted on May 2, 2016 at 23:13:36
Newey
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Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 I'm not a particular follower of Freud, but his theories sometime seem to prove to be true.

Look at your little slip here, Yiminy:

"...quite astringent sounding winds, strings and brass was as close to HIP as one could get...".

So, you, crusading defender of HIPs secretly think that HIPS are 'quite astringent', and therefore deficient, and therefore purposely inferior.

INFERIOR. JDaniels SECRETLY THINKS HIPs ARE INFERIOR

Talk about 'stepping in a pile'.

Boy, you've been covering yourself with glory lately. From revealing ignorance of literature, to revealing ignorance of contemporary trends, to revealing A HATRED FOR CLASSICAL MUSIC as the product of "DEAD WHITE GUYS" [your VERY words], to shameless public BUTT KISSING -----

wooof, Jiminy. I can't keep up. Is it the spring weather that's got you actin' up a fool, homie?

QUICK - hurry and give me another sight reading test so that you can try to quickly recoup some self respect. HURRY!!!!
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

And - What HIP Orchestra Uses EIGHT Basses?, posted on May 2, 2016 at 23:27:19
Newey
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Posts: 537
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Joined: December 26, 2012
 I'm there must be some. So, which ones?

I'm betting probably ----- none. But, who knows. Enlighten me. Enlighten us all.

Even if there are one or two, most of them use 3 to 4 max. They hate basses, and strings. Probably that, together with non-vibrato, has a partially TONE DEAF, mostly dim and imperceptive and inexperienced listener such as you confused and confusing the OSR [or the Vienna Opera Symphony Orchestra or the Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra or --- well, the list goes on and on] with some squeaky HIPS.

BUT - those EIGHT [8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 EIGHT] basses make a difference - if you;re not tone deaf. The foundation of their sound is all different from some 3-bass HIPs. I hear it. Lot's of folks HEAR IT.

Except ---------> YOU

YOU DON'T HEAR IT. You can't tell the difference. Poor Yiminy.

Yet ANOTHER EMBARRASSING public moment for JDaniels. One in a long series, stretching back too ---------
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

Some cover arts of Ansermet's recordings, posted on May 2, 2016 at 23:38:40
alc777
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Posts: 289
Location: Taipei.tw
Joined: June 20, 2009
 nt

 

All things being equal, the difference in volume between 6 basses vs 8 is IMO negligible, though no doubt , posted on May 3, 2016 at 00:31:19
jdaniel@jps.net
 visually more exciting to concert goers such as yourself....

 

The OSR Winds Used Vibrato - The OPPOSITE of HIPs , posted on May 3, 2016 at 00:37:04
Newey
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Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 But - you didn't hear that, nor detect it. TONE DEAF.

The OSR winds, horns, used vibrato. That's the opposite of HIPs, unless you're simple. One dimensional - simple.

The sonority of the OSR was quite complex - as is the case with any orchestra - and the product of a confluence of playing styles - also UNHIP - the instruments used - the use and non-use of vibrato by the winds and horns, etc. etc. etc.

None of it made them sound like an HIP ensemble.

Unless, of course, you're a simpleton. Somebody tells you that the OSR are "astringent", and hey - according to you, "the strings, the winds, and the brass" are all astringent. Which, simplemindedly, equals HIPs.

Hell, even HIP bands don't sound alike. But, again, if your not musically talented, and your running a simple brain [I'm guessing double digit IQ somewhere in the 70s], then, hyup:

OSR = astringent = HIP

Yuppers.

The OSR brass did NOT sound astringent. The use of french model instruments and playing techniques gave them a bright sound that had a sonorous ring to it.

But again - if you're simple - it's all the same to you. It's alllllll good, right homey? Maybe you should stay away from this DEAD WHITE GUY stuff for which you have contempt, and stay with your dead black guy and his 3 "sophisticated" 3 chords.

Rock on, Champ. Rock on.

Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

Psst: was talking about the pungent, heterogeneous sound they produced. I've never met someone so ill , posted on May 3, 2016 at 00:55:19
jdaniel@jps.net
 at ease and defensive as you.

Instead of frantically tearing through wiki pages at 4 in the morning, why not just listen to one of their old performances?

 

I DO NOT "tear" Through Wiki - Nor ANYTHING For My Information, posted on May 3, 2016 at 09:46:44
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 I have it all in my head - the result of a lifetime of experience.

Jiminy Daniels's accusing me of doing so is because that's what HE DOES.

HE doesn't know anything about music - HE looks everything up [on the internet - not even in actual books on music] - so HE accuses me of doing what HE must always do.

LISTEN CLOSELY, JIMINY: all of that stuff I post - THAT ALL COMES STRAIGHT FROM ME

ME - THE BRAIN IN MY SKULL -- NO INTERNET SEARCHING REQUIRED


------------GOT IT? Now go waddle away dazed by my brilliance, you poor little sap
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

The Liar Caught In Action: 3-4 Bass Become 6, 'Negligible' to 8, posted on May 3, 2016 at 10:00:28
Newey
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Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 If anyone's even paying attention, you can see a natural born liar, swindler, fast-talking used car salesman in action --- right here.

I've pointed out that most HIP orchestras use 3 to 4 basses. Heck, some use just 2.

LOOK AT HOW HE MAGICALLY TRANSFORMS THAT TO SIX!!!!!

And, that lets him claim that, heck, SIX isn't a negligible difference to OSR's 8.

Amazing. This guys should be selling real estate deeds to land on the moon.

What a liar. What a loser.

BTW - Karajan use 10 - T E N - basses. That probably negligible, too. Lord, why does this board attract so many mentally challenged?
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

sigh. Just expand the pic of Norrington's HIP band. Count to six., posted on May 3, 2016 at 10:19:59
jdaniel@jps.net



Moreover Gardiner's HIP orchestra list five personnel in the string bass section. Where do you get the " three to four" generalization unless it's more self serving spaciousness? The OAE might use two basses for a Mozart concerto and five to six for a Dvorak symphony. Choosing the number of players is a practical issue, not an Old Testament prescription.

 

Newey: the instruments themselves don't create vibrato. The players do. My point about the OSR's sound is , posted on May 3, 2016 at 10:27:51
jdaniel@jps.net
 that it's blessedly free of the Applebee's BBQ chicken pizza homogenized sound which you seem to prefer and which is unfortunately so popular these days.

And YouTube doesn't do them justice.

 

RE: The Liar Caught In Action: 3-4 Bass Become 6, 'Negligible' to 8, posted on May 3, 2016 at 15:51:20
mes
Audiophile

Posts: 834
Joined: August 7, 2001



''

 

I get your point., posted on May 3, 2016 at 19:17:55
rbolaw
 In fact, everyone who has ever heard Ansermet and the OSR does. Let's face it, you are using the acronym HIP just to get a rise out of Mr. Newey. Another way of making the point is that Ansermet was perhaps the last survivor of a breed of conductors who founded their own orchestras, had absolute control over a devoted band of players, and were able to create a unique sound. (Thomas Beecham was born rich and had something like that with the LPO and RPO. Back in the old days, Eduoard Colonne and Leopold Damrosch had that, and Walther Straram had it in the early 20th century thanks to his wealthy wife. Unfortunately, Straram had a great orchestra but was a bad conductor. Toscanini didn't quite have that with the NBC Symphony, in my opinion, since that was a radio orchestra made up of NY freelancers, not really a full-time concertizing orchestra.)

The economics of today makes it unlikely that a single conductor will create, own and control a top full time professional orchestra.

 

Hugs and kisses but no: I've said in the past that the OSR sounds delightfully HIP, posted on May 3, 2016 at 20:08:13
jdaniel@jps.net
 A year ago I mentioned how refreshing I found Amsermet's Brahms, because of its HIP-like clarity and liveliness, and that was long before the darkness had fallen.

But back then, one was allowed to venture beyond the Binary without upsetting the fanatics.

But seriously, the parallels should be obvious to anyone.

When I talk shop with fellow musicians and music lovers, I expect the context and caveats to be understood: Yes, Newey's heard that HIPsters don't use vibrato. That they play fast. That they're bass light. That they flub, etc.

**Of course** the OSR players use vibrato, of course they employ the modern standard number of string bases, (or at least newey's minimum standard, unless it's since been revised up to 10, now that he's looked at a pic of the Berliner bass section : ) and, well, Amsermet was usually pretty expedient.

It was just amusing to me that newey was singing the praises of one of the few ensembles that was unwittinglying HIP ( for reasons that you know and dont need to be told), even before the movement began.

 

An Informative and Engaging Exchange, posted on May 3, 2016 at 20:22:31
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 Your post gives us thoughtful, enlightening, and absorbing information. Why can't we have more of that, rather than the predatory pugnacity of your unfortunate colleague? Perhaps you should have a word with 'him'.

Fascinating information. Which orchestra did Walther Straram lead? I'm unfamiliar with him.

How would you regard Ormandy? Everyone said that he inherited the lush string sound of the PO from Stokowsky - do you think so?

Even if true, Ormandy managed to sustain it for 50 years or more - a couple of generations. So, that'd indicate that Ormandy certainly played a part in generating that famous PO sound. He didn't retire either, did he?
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

Uh - I Was Replying To Mr. Rbolaw - Not You, posted on May 3, 2016 at 20:36:25
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 For you, I've got some very special treats in store.
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

And Yet Another Straw Man Shot - Will The Liar Ever Stop?, posted on May 3, 2016 at 20:44:20
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 >>>now that he's looked at a pic of the Berliner bass section<<<

Look at him spin. Look at him fabricate. Look at him falsely attribute and accuse. I should sue this punk for libel.

In fact, I know about Karajan's 10 basses from an old interview he did.

What I don't know is whether they even still have 10 basses. For all I know, they may only use 4 or 5 or 6 these days.

But, that doesn't stop JDaniels from accusing me and lying out his alternative ass.
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

Yes I was too, about a 1/2 hour before your post. Nt, posted on May 3, 2016 at 20:56:44
jdaniel@jps.net
 .

 

Jiminy's Butt-Kissing Continues, posted on May 3, 2016 at 21:00:33
Newey
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Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 >>>When I talk shop with fellow musicians and music lovers<<<

Hawr Hawr

Weren't you spewing sarcastic contempt for everyone here not too long ago?
I'm going to actually look up those posts and link and repost them.

Last week you were kissing up to the rock and rollers with your classical composers are "DEAD WHITE GUYS".

Now, you're shamelessly - SHAMELESSLY - making a bid for group sentiment [or, at least the few - if any - who're still reading this predatory thread of yours - with that "fellow musicians and music lovers". Hawr Hawr.

At least I'm honest and straightforward. I don't conceal any contempt I may have.

Signing off with a 'rock on' wouldn't be correct here. In your case it's SPIN ON, you natural born liar, you.
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

More Lying In Action - Fabricating, Spinning, & Backpedaling - Look As I Reveal & Demolish, posted on May 3, 2016 at 21:16:26
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 >>>My point about the OSR's sound is that it's blessedly free of the Applebee's BBQ chicken pizza homogenized sound<<<

Nope. That's not what you said. What you said is very clear, and it's posted down below, right in this thread for all to see. Just in case you try to weasel out of you statements, I'll paste them right here:

>>>The Suisse Romande pictured, with its locally constructed and quite astringent winds, diaphanous strings and colorful brass was as close to HIP as one could get back then<<<

And, just moments ago, again:

>>>I've said in the past that the OSR sounds delightfully HIP<<<

So, you're saying that the OSR were "the closest thing to HIP", except when you're shown to be wrong. Then, you try to spin out of that.

The fact that orchestras all used to sound different back then [and the homogenization process was first noticed in the mid 70s, afaik] is something YOU'RE COMPLETELY UNAWARE OF.

The OSR wasn't an exception. All orchestras sounded different. The Paris Conservatory Orchestra sounded even MORE like what you think the OSR sounds like. They were even MORE "piquent", and often really out of tune. Peculiar section balances, as if each section was independent and maybe hostile to the others.

So, even if we accept for second your silly contention that the OSR sounded "HIP", that'd make the PCO even MORE HIP.

EVEN MORE MORE MORE HIP

OMG - the mind boggles. And, why stop there. The Minneapolis SO had a highly individual, string-light sound. HIP - right there. Yuppers.

Oh - and the Russians. The Russians claimed for decades upon decades that they were the final carriers of authentic tradition. Just listen to those Soviet era recording. The horn and brass vibrato is out of this world. That's anti-HIP, EXCEPT acccording to you. YOU think it more HIP.

As I'd said below - anyone - ANYONE - may verify for themselves whether the OSR, the PCO [and other French orchestras], or any other ensemble, sounds HIP or doesn't. NOBODY NEEDS TO TAKE YOUR SPIN-JOB WORD FOR IT. Nor mine, for that matter.

You clearly think that any kind of peculiar, individualist sound is automatically HIP.

Creates a true straw man:

>>>Newey: the instruments themselves don't create vibrato<<<
As if I ever said anything of the sort. Nothing like making something up and then accusing someone of saying that.

I'm betting that in the little bit of real life that you have outside of here, the few people who know [knew] you regard you as a swindler and a con man.
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

HIP Number of Basses, posted on May 3, 2016 at 21:30:33
Newey
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Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 3 to 4 is the number I always see listed for HIP orchestras. Herreweghe's Orchestre des Champs Elysées uses 4 for Bruckner, I believe.

Hooray. Gardner uses as massive 5. And, Norrington muscles in there with 6.

Let's do a little simple math, shall we?

A modern orchestra usually has 8 to 9. So,

9 minus 5 = 4
9 minus 6 = 3
8 minus 5 = 3
8 minus 6 = 2

I'm doing this simpleton stuff, cause you will either:

* not understand my point due to your IQ problems [which I've established in the past; see my prior posts]

* do a really slimey spin job on my point[s]

Taking the bigger numbers, the difference between 5 and 9 is 4, which is equal to the entire bass section of a HIP so-called orchestra. THAT'S a SUBSTANTIAL difference. Anyone should hear that in a hall.

Yes, audibility will be affected by the nature of a hall, and even more, by your seat in it. But, assuming a good hall, say such as Orchestra Hall in Chicago, that'd make a BIG difference.

And, I can attest to that from personal experience - in Orchestra Hall Chicago. Conductors, especially visiting ones, now routinely use 4 to 5 basses when performing Mozart and even some Beethoven. Then, for the latter part of a given concert, they bring out the full bass complement, the difference is awesomely clear.

EXCEPT TO THE TONE DEAF.

If you're tone deaf - no difference. Yes, Jiminy. I think you're tone deaf - and not a little.

Taking the smallest number 6 vs 8, the addition of 2 basses may or may not be immediately apparent to the average listener, and certainly not to a tone deaf inferior defective, but, especially in certain parts of a hall, it's audible, especially in certain key seats in the hall.

As for the bass complement for HIPs, I'd love to read a true and accurate compilation of the number of basses the major HIP orchestras use, if anyone has such information.
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

The 10 Basses of the Karajan BPO - And A Little Test for Jiminy, posted on May 3, 2016 at 21:37:23
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 I've known about that for decades.

Accusing me of stupidity ["now that he's looked at a pic of the Berliner bass section"], it's not clear if you know that Herbert von Karajan's dead. In fact, he died years ago.

So, what picture, butt-kissing boy? Today's BPO picture? How many basses do they use now? How about 10 years ago? How many then? Do you know?

If I looked at a picture, or cribbed from Wikipedia, which I never do cause I don't have to, but which you ALWAYS DO, because you DON'T KNOW ANYTHING, then tell me - and anyone else reading this -

WHY DID KARAJAN USE 10 BASSES?

HUH? WHY? WHY?

Why did he use 10 basses? Come on. It's in that picture of yours, isn't it?

What a sorry, lonely sap you really are.

Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

Your point was flawed from get go. Number of basses isn't for purposes of eye candy. , posted on May 3, 2016 at 21:44:01
jdaniel@jps.net
 Number is chosen based upon the piece being played, the venue, or more broadly speaking, the musical niche in which the ensemble specializes.

Again your lack of practice experience is tripping you up.

Let it go.

 

Sigh. Was a condescending exaggeration. You're going off the deep end lately. Nt, posted on May 3, 2016 at 21:46:46
jdaniel@jps.net
 .

 

Lol I disagreed with him. Let it go. Nt, posted on May 3, 2016 at 21:47:46
jdaniel@jps.net
 .

 

HOLY CRAP - DID YOU EVEN READ MY POST? , posted on May 3, 2016 at 21:49:28
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 I took pains to point out the AUDIBLE differences is halls for mathematically specific numbers of basses. A-U-D-I-B-L-E

WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT "EYE CANDY"????????????


Oh. YOU DID. YOU JUST MADE IT UP RIGHT NOW, and then you put those words in my mouth.

MY POST IS RIGHT THERE - ANYONE CAN READ IT

I put in specific numbers, and related those numbers to hall listening experiences.

WOW

You're really outdoing yourself. Your lying and spinning are out of control. Holy shit.
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

No butt kissing here of course. : ) nt, posted on May 3, 2016 at 21:49:38
jdaniel@jps.net
 .

 

But it was based upon your flawed premise, just like your rant based upon misreading "A" for "G". It's waste of time., posted on May 3, 2016 at 21:54:07
jdaniel@jps.net
 .

 

Jiminy - You Said That Ansermet Was A Nazi , posted on May 3, 2016 at 21:56:27
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 You just keep lying, spinning, putting words in my mouth ----

You're doing do much that I'm beggining to think you may be on drugs or a nervous breakdown yourself.

Let me add to your mental state. Hmm, I think I'll put words into your mouth - Jiminy style. Should be fun. Let's see:

You Said That Ansermet Was A Nazi Homosexual, and that he got the OSR to sound that way because he was promoting communist mind control.

Nah. No good. I just don't have the gift for BS the way you do.
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

WHAT FLAWED PREMISE??????, posted on May 3, 2016 at 21:58:01
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 The only flaw I see here is your OSR = HIP.

What about the PCO? Or any French orchestra??????????????


WHAT FLAWED PREMISE, diggle bells?
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

The Test Remains- Why Did Karajan Use 10 Basses???, posted on May 3, 2016 at 22:01:05
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 Quick. Look it up on Wikipedia. Search on line. DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT.

Yeah. You don't know.

You don't know ANYTHING about music. I may know only a tiny, teenie bit. But, you don't know squat. Back to the *** bars for you.
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

when I'm engaging in shop talk with fellow musicians, context and caveats needn't be tediously spelled out. , posted on May 3, 2016 at 22:04:55
jdaniel@jps.net
 You have your fun revealing and demolishing. I've never met anyone who's minimized and perverted the wonderful gift of music more than you.

 

Here Are Jiminy's Truely Flawed Premises, posted on May 3, 2016 at 22:06:47
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 1. The OSR had an individual sonority and playing style.

2. ERGO - the automatically = HIP. Weeeeeeeeeeee

3. The number of basses use doesn't matter and can't be heard, cause he can't hear the difference

4. The PCO? Jiminy never heard of them.

5. French orchestras? No such thing. Just the OSR [technically Swiss].

6. Modern instruments, string vibrato, wind and horn section vibrato, metal strings, modern conducting, modern orchestral size = HIP

7. Instruments don't create vibrato - players do [HA HA HA - I love that one - talk about putting words in my mouth - a gem]
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

Nope. Just Interested Questions, posted on May 3, 2016 at 22:08:23
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 To bad you can't answer a SINGLE ONE of them.

In fact, I doubt you're even aware of any of these points, except dimly.
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

Really? Context and Caveats or just Backpeddling and Spinning , posted on May 3, 2016 at 22:10:59
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 Desperately trying to spin your way out of the pool of really embarrassing statements you've made.

Psssst - they're all still here, for all to see.

Maybe you can get a moderator to delete them for you. Whew. Save face.
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

That 8+ string bases (not "1, 2 or 3" as you marveled) = musical Truth. It's a silly naive generaliztion, and all the , posted on May 3, 2016 at 22:16:44
jdaniel@jps.net
 Jiminy ad hominems in the world wont make your feelings of inadequacy go away.

 

Tedious remediation so you could better understand. Nt, posted on May 3, 2016 at 22:20:22
jdaniel@jps.net
 .

 

I did? Nt, posted on May 3, 2016 at 22:21:13
jdaniel@jps.net
 .

 

EXACTLY When and Where Did I Say THAT????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????, posted on May 3, 2016 at 22:25:24
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 Come on. Where?????????

The posts are all here.

Link it, you lying sack of

Go ahead. LINK IT.
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

For which piece? I've told you a million times it's not a fixed number, chosen by a newey- approved conductor , posted on May 3, 2016 at 22:32:15
jdaniel@jps.net
 solely to prove he's not HIP. Musicians don't think like that.

 

If the OSR = HIP, Then What Does That Make the PCO?, posted on May 3, 2016 at 22:32:35
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 All of the qualities associated with the OSR are minute compared to the Paris Conservatory Orchestra.

So, if the OSR was "as close to HIP as one could get back then" - that's an exact cut/paste of Jiminy's statement ----

--- then what does that make the PCO? The PCO would've been super, ultra ultra ultra HIP

But wait. He's saying ONLY the OSR was "as close to HIP as one could get back then".

Either they were or they weren't. Does that make the PCO ANTI-HIP?????

Oh - what about Scherchen's rough Vienna State Opera Orchestra. They had rough, scrawny strings, intonation-plagued winds, etc. HIP HIP HIP HIP

Oh man. Just how many HIPs were there back in the 1950s???

Just the OSR. That's what JDaniels has said. Until he says he didn't say it.
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

RE: EXACTLY When and Where Did I Say THAT??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????, posted on May 3, 2016 at 22:33:47
jdaniel@jps.net
 Sigh. You implied it in lines two and three. Otherwise what did you mean?

 

The Test Still Remains- Why Did Karajan Use 10 Basses?? WHY??, posted on May 3, 2016 at 22:36:26
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 Yeah. You told me.

Cause, like, I didn't KNOW that. Ooooo. Thanks, Jiminy. You've just so informed me. Do we breath air here on earth? Tell me that too, cause I just don't know.

Give me a break, spin-liar boy. I know ALL of that shit, way more than you ever will.

So, tell me. TELL EVERYONE. WHY DID KARAJAN USE 10 BASES IN THE BPO???????

In any piece. WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

What???? Implied Where??? Never Said or Implied - Just Another Lying Spin of Yours, posted on May 3, 2016 at 22:38:48
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 Jeez. Putting words in my mouth and making shit up, right in front of my eyes.

If you're going to attack me, at least be straight and honest about it. Don't make shit up.
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

I Was Merely Making Fun of Tiny, Squeaky HIP ensenbles, posted on May 3, 2016 at 22:42:08
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 Taking a shot at them. You're well aware of the strategy.

But, now that you bring it up, yeah - the more basses the better.

Strong, powerful music and sound. Yeah. I want to FEEL IT. POWER.

POWER = TRUTH

My power crushes your skull.
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

Yes. [nt], posted on May 3, 2016 at 22:42:47
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 f
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

Nope. Just Spinning and Backpeddiling, posted on May 3, 2016 at 22:46:33
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 The posts are all still here.

Can't hide from them.

All of your words --- still here. DAMNING EVIDENCE.

Best run to that bar of yours, and seek solace in your own kind there.
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

You're being tedious again. Why would anyone *not* assume that the PCO of the time wouldn't sound similar? Nt, posted on May 3, 2016 at 22:51:49
jdaniel@jps.net
 Silly questions on your part to sound authoritative information I guess.

 

Announcement: I'll Be Taking A Break From Here, posted on May 3, 2016 at 22:52:05
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 As soon as I'm done with Jiminy.

This place, and Jiminy's predatory posts are just sucking up way too much of my time. Unlike Jiminy, I've got familial responsibilities, job responsibilities, and an overwhelming amount of stuff that needs to be done [got to go have a look a a leaking window after work tomorrow]. Real world stuff.

Normally, I'd just stop posting, but with Jiminy's recent behavior here, putting words in my mouth, spinning, and flat-out lying, he'd probably spin my absence into some kind of accusation or victory for himself.

So, I just want to be clear that I'm taking a break of my own volition. Besides, looking at the mess in this whole thread, of which I'm sure some will blame me, I think everyone'll be happy to get away from this kind of pointless sparring.

Bye for now.
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

You're Spinning & Lying Again - You're Stepping In A Pile --Again, posted on May 3, 2016 at 22:59:54
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 You SPECIFICALLY said:

"The Suisse Romande pictured, with its locally constructed and quite astringent winds, diaphanous strings and colorful brass was as close to HIP as one could get back then".

Then, you repeated it, just an hour ago:

"I've said in the past that the OSR sounds delightfully HIP".

Very specific. You said NOTHING about the general French orchestra sound. You NEVER ONCE mentioned the PCO.

Have you even ever heard the PCO?

Jiminy, lying spinning Jiminy. Just say "I was wrong" and let it go. All of your posts are right here. Anyone can see what you've said for themselves.

YOU CAN'T LIE YOUR WAY OUT OF THIS ONE

Maybe I should start collecting all of the dumb errors you've posted on this site since I've come back, and then start a new thread of Jiminy's Greatest Hits.
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

Before I Go - Note That My Posts Are Full of Music Info, posted on May 3, 2016 at 23:05:38
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 While Jiminy's are remarkably free of any information.

Mostly, they're just attacks on me.

Think about that.
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

It's not a worthy question as is. It's like asking why Martha Stewart used 10 eggs., posted on May 3, 2016 at 23:06:41
jdaniel@jps.net
 What was she making?

Conductors size their orchestras based upon the music at hand, or the exigencies of the venue,and without that info, I can't tell you what karajan was aiming for.

 

Newey, everyone's in bed. They could give a shit about our wheel spinning. Nt, posted on May 3, 2016 at 23:08:32
jdaniel@jps.net
 .

 

In Other Words - YOU HAVE NO IDEA, posted on May 3, 2016 at 23:12:22
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 You don't know.

And, you've just said that orchestral sonority is " not a worthy question as is. It's like asking why Martha Stewart used 10 eggs".

Nice shot, genius.

As I've stated in my post above, 8 or 9 basses are AUDIBLY different than 4 or 5. EXCEPT TO YOU.

"Conductors size their orchestras based upon the music at hand"

Such as who???

The question was SPECIFICALLY ABOUT KARAJAN. He used 10 basses. It wasn't for a joke. It wasn't for Martha Stewart". Why did he do that?

"or the exigencies of the venue,and without that info, I can't tell you what karajan was aiming for"

The BPO played in it's home concert hall. They recorded there, too, and afaik, stayed with 10 basses for recordings, too.

You can't tell - cause you HAVE NO FRIGGIN IDEA
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

At Last You Posted One True Statement, posted on May 3, 2016 at 23:14:18
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 It must really hurt you to utter a truth [about anything]. Now go sell some real estate on the moon.

And, with that, I'm signing off.
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

Yeah, the PCO could have bought their woodwinds from Japan and their trumpets from Moscow...., posted on May 3, 2016 at 23:15:09
jdaniel@jps.net
 Totally could have happened and definitely worth entertaining the possibility that they'd sound different from the OSR.

Really Newey, people on here, at least those bored enough to follow, already know that orchestras shared the same characteristic sound.

 

Do *you* know why Martha used 10 eggs? Really newey, really. Nt, posted on May 3, 2016 at 23:19:07
jdaniel@jps.net
 .

 

"people on here already know that orchestras shared the same characteristic sound", posted on May 3, 2016 at 23:20:22
Newey
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: Chicago
Joined: December 26, 2012
 You didn't. Not once.

"The Suisse Romande pictured, with its locally constructed and quite astringent winds, diaphanous strings and colorful brass was as close to HIP as one could get back then".

A statement for the ages.
Severius! Supremus Invictus

 

Oh Tosca, just jump off the rampart already! Nt, posted on May 3, 2016 at 23:20:23
jdaniel@jps.net
 ,

 

So I momentarily forgot about the PCO. You want that one, you can have it. , posted on May 3, 2016 at 23:34:33
jdaniel@jps.net
 But not recognizing a simple G on staff? A Bruckner specialist not recognizing the simple trumpet tune opening the 3rd symphony? One for the ages indeed. Even Prince could have plunked that one out.

From 2007:

"6), 7) and 8: 3 lp's featuring the early Paris Conservatory Orchestra. So make fun of them if you want, with their bleating horns, squacky woodwinds and relatively thin string basses.... Old wine in old bottles can be quite interesting as well! The resulting astringency yields very refreshing performances of Prokofiev's 5th, (with Martinon), Prokofiev's Piano Concerto #2 (with the young Frager and Leibowitz), and a very early recording of Scheherezahde with Ansermet. All I believe were Decca recordings with that uncanny, tangible sound."

 

RE: Some cover arts of Ansermet's recordings - thank you (NT), posted on May 4, 2016 at 04:58:25
svisner
Audiophile

Posts: 1165
Joined: March 30, 2002
 Thank you.

 

Good luck to you., posted on May 4, 2016 at 05:17:42
D Harvey
Manufacturer

Posts: 5563
Location: SE Michigan
Joined: May 30, 2001
 Seriously. Try to enjoy yourself.
dh

 

Link? Nt, posted on May 4, 2016 at 06:48:05
jdaniel@jps.net
 .

 

You can't, what will we do?, posted on May 4, 2016 at 07:15:39
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10583
Joined: April 12, 2002
 Oh, wait...
Bye.

 

Your first post I saw called someone a Liar. That's all you do, I'm sick of it and you. Go. Now. nt, posted on May 4, 2016 at 08:14:23
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10583
Joined: April 12, 2002
 /

 

Thanks! Hope you enjoy your break as much as we will..., posted on May 4, 2016 at 10:27:03
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31879
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 but one doubts it.

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

Are you kidding??!! I'm already drunk., posted on May 4, 2016 at 10:31:50
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10583
Joined: April 12, 2002
 with power.

 

Yes... the air smells better, the sun is out, flowers blooming..., posted on May 4, 2016 at 10:40:52
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31879
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 The B's (Bach, Beethoven, Bruckner) smiling... even the pop music now blasting sounds better!

It's a new day!





"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

It did not appear that you had a day job.nt, posted on May 4, 2016 at 16:32:48
briggs
Audiophile

Posts: 1674
Location: Connecticut
Joined: April 16, 2002
 nt

 

Not to extend the thread in the direction it's been going or anything. . . , posted on May 4, 2016 at 17:33:21
Chris from Lafayette
Audiophile

Posts: 26487
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 6, 2012
 . . . but I do find jdaniel's contention that the OSR had a kind of "HIP orchestral sonority" to be rather far fetched. Currently, I have Ansermet's Beethoven Symphonies 1-8, Haydn's Paris Symphonies, and such classics as the Berlioz/Ravel disc with Crespin. In my LP days, I used to have Ansermet's Brahms German Requiem and a disc of Bach cantatas. I also have a 24/96 download of his Debussy La Mer, Jeux and Khamma, etc. album.

Believe me, I would never consider owning such discs (especially the Bach, Haydn, and Beethoven) if there were even the slightest hint of HIP in the performances! ;-)

OK! OK! I WILL admit that on some older discs, the wind playing of the OSR was SO out of tune that, in this ONE respect, it DID remind me of a HIP orchestra! ;-)

 

RE: Not to extend the thread in the direction it's been going or anything. . . , posted on May 4, 2016 at 17:46:23
John N
Audiophile

Posts: 1325
Joined: May 10, 2000
 I do want to note, (and hopefully take this thread to a healthier place) that I have terrific fondness for Ansermet's German Requiem. It lacks the power of say Klemperer, but from my first listen I found it a salve the human condition in a way no other recording quite matched.

 

My own feeling about that Ansermet German Requiem recording. . . , posted on May 4, 2016 at 18:09:51
Chris from Lafayette
Audiophile

Posts: 26487
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 6, 2012
 . . . was that it presented the work without a lot of the heaviness (which might be equated with sanctimoniousness - at least for some listeners!) that it gets in many other performances. It's as if Ansermet raised the "center of gravity" of Brahms's orchestration in this performance. It's certainly a valid view, although, as you say, one turns to other performances to get more of the latent power in the score. In addition, the Ansermet recording was our (my wife's and my) first recorded performance of "Nanie", another truly genius choral work which, unaccountably, barely seems to register with the general public.

 

RE: My own feeling about that Ansermet German Requiem recording. . . , posted on May 4, 2016 at 18:56:02
svisner
Audiophile

Posts: 1165
Joined: March 30, 2002
 Thank you for this level of discourse.

 

Well CDs don't do the delicate string sound justice, that said..., posted on May 4, 2016 at 19:04:26
jdaniel@jps.net
 IMHO the unique, sweet, glassy astringency of strings and winds is unmistakeable. The timbres remind me of the C Aureum at the very least.

Stylistiically of course, the OSR players use vibrato, just as HIPsers do on occasion. (See Adam Fischer rehearsing the OAE in Dvorak's 9th, IIRC.) But we certainly don't need to refer to a five point checklist before daring to acknowledge a casual similarity.

I love their corporate sound as applied to Ravel, not so much for certain Debussy works, (which needs a little more burnished glow for my tastes) and don't care for their Tchaikovsky, which isn't weighty enough. Big fan of Ansermet's PCO early Sheherazahde though. Ansermet could light a fire in his belly if he wanted.

I'd recommend the OSR's Brahms to anyone learning to orchestrate because every strand is so clear and the colors so vivid.

But alas, that OSR sound is long gone.

 

But can you tell me why Martha Stuart used 10 eggs...., posted on May 4, 2016 at 19:17:47
jdaniel@jps.net
 And...

Is it safe?

 

From today's perspective, yes, it was a unique sound, posted on May 4, 2016 at 19:52:34
Chris from Lafayette
Audiophile

Posts: 26487
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 6, 2012
 I've heard it (the OSR sound) on LP, CD, and hi-rez download, and, needless to say, I think CD actually does better than the older medium in conveying the delicate string sonorities. YMMV and all that.

Yes, the OSR players use vibrato. In fact, they use a hell of a lot more vibrato than any of your average HIP ensembles. (I mean, really, no one is going to mistake the OAE, even playing Dvorak, with a non-HIP orchestra - even if Fischer does allow them a soupcon of vibrato!) But I do agree that the OSR's corporate sound today (as heard on their newer recordings on the Chandos and Pentatone labels) is nothing like it was in the Ansermet era. Today, the OSR playing Bruckner actually sounds pretty good - something I can't imagine anyone saying during Ansermet's time! ;-)

 

RE: From today's perspective, yes, it was a unique sound, posted on May 4, 2016 at 20:14:05
jdaniel@jps.net
--Yes, the OSR players use vibrato. In fact, they use a hell of a lot more vibrato than any of your average HIP ensembles. --

It goes without saying....

 

RE: Some cover arts of Ansermet's recordings - thank you (NT), posted on May 4, 2016 at 20:20:53
alc777
Audiophile

Posts: 289
Location: Taipei.tw
Joined: June 20, 2009
 You're welcome. And thank you in return, from the above posts, I have put his German Requiem in my watch list.

 

RE: Not to extend the thread in the direction it's been going or anything. . . , posted on May 4, 2016 at 21:30:08
Mali
Audiophile

Posts: 2226
Location: Wyoming
Joined: June 12, 2003
Contributor
  Since: November 11, 2009
 Critics used to often say that the OSR had a thin sounding string section, compared as to say, the Vienna Philharmonic or the Berlin Philharmonic, but they were some tough competition in that regard. Anyway, that thin sound might remind some of "historically influenced/informed performance" practices.

 

Actually, I can see that too, although HIP sound is of course way thinner [nt], posted on May 4, 2016 at 23:40:45
Chris from Lafayette
Audiophile

Posts: 26487
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 6, 2012

 

I prefer gossamer. Fantastic in the opening of Ravel's Rhapsody Espagnol nt, posted on May 5, 2016 at 07:06:32
jdaniel@jps.net
 .

 

That's one of Ansermet's best imo. nt, posted on May 5, 2016 at 08:50:32
rbolaw

 

Haven't heard Ansermet/OSR in that piece, posted on May 5, 2016 at 09:32:33
Chris from Lafayette
Audiophile

Posts: 26487
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 6, 2012
 Just thinking off the top of my head which recordings of Rapsodie espagnole I have: Skrowaczewski, Paray, Reiner, Cluytens (perhaps the most similar to Ansermet?), Rosenthal (another potentially similar one), Boulez (DG), Celibidache, and Slatkin. Aside from the last (Slatkin), they're all very good in one way or another, although I still find myself clicking on the (Classic Records 24/96) Skrowaczewski recording when I want to hear the piece most of the time. (OK, I have the MoFi SACD incarnation of this performance too, so sometimes, I actually have to get up, take the disc off the shelf, take it out of the case, place it on the tray, press the insert button, walk back to my chair and sit down, and then press the play button on the remote - whew! That's a lot of work!)

Of the ones I listed, I have Skrowaczewski (Classic Records incarnation), Paray, Cluytens, and Rosenthal on the hard drive so far.

 

Thinking about this a little more. . . , posted on May 5, 2016 at 09:46:48
Chris from Lafayette
Audiophile

Posts: 26487
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 6, 2012
 . . . sure, the OSR did have a thin-sounding string section compared to the BPO or the VPO, but, actually, you could say that about most orchestras from that time in comparison to the BPO or the VPO. Just because the OSR string sound was thin (relatively speaking) and the winds were sometimes sour, that doesn't make Ansermet and his merry band the precursors of HIP, except in a VERY, VERY broad sense. ;-)

 

RE: Thinking about this a little more. . . , posted on May 5, 2016 at 10:24:07
Mali
Audiophile

Posts: 2226
Location: Wyoming
Joined: June 12, 2003
Contributor
  Since: November 11, 2009
 "Just because the OSR string sound was thin (relatively speaking) and the winds were sometimes sour, that doesn't make Ansermet and his merry band the precursors of HIP, except in a VERY, VERY broad sense. ;-)"

Of course not. Ansermet would have been puzzled if anyone had asked him if he wanted the orchestra to sound like a 19th century one, and probably insulted as well.

 

RE: Announcement: I'll Be Taking A Break From Here, posted on May 5, 2016 at 16:20:12
dgaapc7
Audiophile

Posts: 364
Joined: August 16, 2013
 I normally do not make snide comments (they require so little thought), but I don't hear anybody crying.
LowIQ

 

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