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Any recommendations for a Berg Lulu

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Posted on November 29, 2015 at 19:03:53
Utley1
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 Went to the Met Opera Sat. and heard a remarkable/mind bending performance, as passionate experience as opera offers. I own only the 1966 live performance with Stratas and Boulez. Probably sold out but anyone in NYC should see it on DEC 3 as the lead is retiring the role. It will be performed again in the spring with a different cast.

 

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Not really - I have the Dorati/LSO Mercury recording of the Suite with Pilarczyk , posted on November 30, 2015 at 00:42:06
Chris from Lafayette
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 Stunningly recorded, but it's not the complete opera by any means.


(The vinyl incarnation - I have the CD)

I also have the Gatti/Concertgebouw RCO Live recording on SACD, but again, it sounds as if you want the complete opera rather than just the suite.



I don't have a score of "Lulu" and, frankly, I couldn't even tell you if these are good performances. However, I do like both of these recordings (especially the Dorati) mainly because of the engineering.

 

It was also broadcast as a Live at the MET HD production...., posted on November 30, 2015 at 06:51:47
Ivan303
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 in many local theaters.

May even be re-run in some theaters this week?

Wife saw it and thought it was great.

Aren't many "Live at the Met" performances later released on DVD/Blu-Ray?




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

The Met Orch also on Sony, w/ Last 3 Scenes from Wozzeck. , posted on November 30, 2015 at 07:34:25
oldmkvi
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 Ormandy/Philly on LP for Lulu Suite.
Lulu, Wozzeck and Violin Concerto, all beautiful.

 

RE: It was also broadcast as a Live at the MET HD production...., posted on November 30, 2015 at 08:01:50
Utley1
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 Just overwhelmed me. Ensemble singing in moments as great as the second act of Figaro. And in the last act as affecting of Tristan. The orcherstra playing was magnificent.

 

I love listeners who want to be "with it" as far as the Second Vienna School is concerned, posted on November 30, 2015 at 10:32:04
Chris from Lafayette
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 They make a big show of their love for the Berg Violin Concerto, and, with tears in their eyes and their voices choking with self-generated emotion, give us such insights as, "Oh!. . . He uses a Bach chorale in the last movement!", as if no one else could possibly make this profound observation! When I was reviewing for one of the local papers, I ran into these types when I heard Perlman play the concerto in two successive appearances with the SF Symphony within the span of two years. Not fun for me.

BTW, I'm not referring to you in this little satirical comment. ;-)

 

Nathan Milstein wanted to be "with it"., posted on November 30, 2015 at 11:53:52
rbolaw
 He liked the Berg concerto so much he convinced Louis Krasner, who commissioned it, to let him perform it in a version for violin and piano, unfortunately never recorded.
This is interesting when you consider Milstein was a friend and devoted follower of Rachmaninoff. Milstein also strongly disliked the Sibelius and Elgar concertos (he called the Elgar an inferior version of the Brahms concerto, which in turn he called an inferior version of the Beethoven concerto), was only moderately happy with the Bartok 2nd, and would have nothing to do with Shostakovich (he was profoundly anti-Soviet and anti-communist, of course). He resented Stravinsky for choosing Samuel Dushkin, whom he considered an inferior violinist, to help compose his concerto. He even wasn't entirely enthusiastic about the Glazunov concerto, which he famously performed with the composer (whom he said was a bad conductor) as a child prodigy. The only other major 20th century violin concerto he seemed to like was the Prokofiev 1st, written while Prokofiev was still in the west.
So -- for him, that's high praise for the Berg concerto.

 

Yup - some very fine violinists have this concerto in their repertoires, posted on November 30, 2015 at 13:38:17
Chris from Lafayette
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 . . . including J-Fi. She and Milstein aren't going to convince me however! ;-)

Nevertheless, I do have a recording of the darn thing:



. . . as well as an in-concert performance from J-Fi.


(J-Fi realizing she's made a big mistake by including the Berg Concerto in her repertoire)

 

Not Everyone knows what I know about that Bach Chorale..., posted on November 30, 2015 at 14:20:36
oldmkvi
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 He took out phrase repetitions, changed 2 notes, and one rhythm.
Put it in Bb Concert, not A Concert.
I wrote an arrangement for my Clarinet Quartet, using the Chorale right from the Berg Score, with more music from me.
I played the Concerto Alto Sax/Clarinet Part with SFS/Gil Shaham, at Davies and on Tour.
I also played with the A Team Clarinet Section, with David Breeden,
just before he died, and I'm fortunate to have recordings of the Davies Performances.
I love that piece, I don't care what anybody thinks...!

 

"I love that piece, I don't care what anybody thinks...!", posted on November 30, 2015 at 14:43:16
Chris from Lafayette
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 As you should! And I hope you don't mind my having a bit of fun with it. ;-)

BTW, I got to know David Breeden towards the end of his life, through my ties to Teddy Abrams (now assistant conductor of the Detroit Symphony) when he was studying clarinet with David - just a great guy!

 

RE: "I love that piece, I don't care what anybody thinks...!", posted on November 30, 2015 at 16:11:43
oldmkvi
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 Yes, David was a good guy, tho a bit reclusive in later years.
His dad, Leon Breeden, started the Jazz program at North Texas State College.
Many fine players went there.

 

Eight posts!, posted on November 30, 2015 at 16:31:56
rbolaw
 Tsk, tsk, Chris. It took eight posts for you to make a thread about recommended versions of Berg's Lulu about J-Fi, Lisa, Yuja or JJ. And that took some help from me. You need to cut that down to three at most!

As kids, we used to play a game of how quickly we could relate anything, no matter how remote, to the French resistance movement of World War II. Sort of like John Guare's Six Degrees of Separation, except invented a full 17 years earlier. Did you know that the French resistance fighters often killed prostitutes for selling their services to the occupying German military? And speaking of killing prostitutes ...

 

I'll try to do better in the future, but you have to admit. . . , posted on November 30, 2015 at 18:06:52
Chris from Lafayette
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 . . . that I have many of you so sensitized that I don't even have to mention the terms "babe" or "hottie" or even "snowflake" for you guys to take the bait. Thanks to my ceaseless work over the past few years, the great babe musicians of the present day are known to one and all on this board. All I have to do is mention the name of someone like J-Fi and you all know what's what. I can rest content! ;-)

 

BTW, I guess I missed my chance by not responding directly to the OP, posted on November 30, 2015 at 18:35:56
Chris from Lafayette
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 Hmm. . . searching Google Images for the terms, "Berg" and "Lulu", and what does one find! Oh yes! Here's a good one:



Much more provocative than any babe violinist!

 

RE: I'll try to do better in the future, but you have to admit. . . , posted on November 30, 2015 at 20:00:16
rbolaw
 I was talking with a wncmwsrn (well-known classical musician who shall remain nameless) who knows several of your babes about this forum and how some refer to "Lisa" or "J-Fi", thinking he would be amused, but he was not, and I quickly changed the subject. (I hadn't yet been exposed to the terms 'baber' and 'anti-baber', so I don't know what reaction they would provoke. Not a positive one, I'm guessing.)

However, it was mild compared to the downright angry reaction I got when I mentioned the anti-modernists, for some of whom even Stravinsky is too "far out", much less Berg's Lulu (kudos to Virgil Thomson for coining the term "the far-outs", though he was referring to Stockhausen, Cage, Subotnik, et al., not Stravinsky or Bartok). But here, I think the onus is on the performer to convince and engage the audience. Or at least, an audience. Of course, Lulu has had an audience for a long time.

 

Sounds as if that guy takes himself WAY too seriously [nt], posted on November 30, 2015 at 23:51:47
Chris from Lafayette
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RE: Sounds as if that guy takes himself WAY too seriously [nt], posted on December 1, 2015 at 04:45:11
rbolaw
 He's a modest, good-humored person who takes his music very seriously, not himself. That's ok, but a forum like this is for music clowns like us. ;-)

 

Nevertheless, if he gets mad at other listeners' musical tastes. . . , posted on December 1, 2015 at 09:50:23
Chris from Lafayette
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 . . . that does seem a bit. . . uh. . . jejune! ;-)

 

Probably just frustrated rather than mad. nt, posted on December 1, 2015 at 12:01:50
rbolaw

 

My recommendation for Lulu is skip it :), posted on December 2, 2015 at 16:00:29
Jay Buridan
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 Yust Yoking, but I dislike much of the Second Vienna School.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

Yeah - but it's so. . . lurid! [nt] ;-), posted on December 3, 2015 at 00:24:51
Chris from Lafayette
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"JEJUNE" IS..., posted on December 3, 2015 at 08:04:08
John Marks
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 P-porky P-pig's F-favorite M-month.

jm

 

Hey! Stop it! [nt] ;-), posted on December 3, 2015 at 09:31:45
Chris from Lafayette
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If I knew for certain that it's better than it sounds..., posted on December 3, 2015 at 16:47:22
Jay Buridan
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 I'd give a listen. Same goes for the Lou Reed/Metallica rendition :)

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

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