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Listening to some Classical Music

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Posted on September 25, 2014 at 05:09:33
jedrider
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 It amuses me that the audience knows EXACTLY when to clap! I usually have to wait a split second to realize that it IS appropriate time to clap. Just listening to some Horowitz where EVERYONE appears to know to clap at the same time. I presume that they already know the music very well.

 

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Poor counting skills., posted on September 25, 2014 at 05:31:59
Larry I
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 I went to a concert where the pianist played the Op. 28 preludes. After the 23rd, someone started clapping ("missed it by THAT much"). My sister commented that even with a miscount, the listener must have surely known that the set would not end on a major key number.

 

RE: Poor counting skills., posted on September 25, 2014 at 06:38:52
rbolaw
 Apparently all these classical music clapping etiquette rules didn't apply in the 19th century, and some have suggested they be abandoned.

 

RE: Listening to some Classical Music, posted on September 25, 2014 at 06:50:42
Tadlo
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 There should a moment of silence after the piece ends before the applause starts. Pianists and conductors wait to drop their arms before they are ready for the applause to start. I hate it when applaud as soon as the final note ends. A loud "bravo" is an abomination. When my kids were in Suzuki they were taught when their performance ends to be still for the "magic moment" before indicating that the audience may applaud. The magic moment needs to be there. The music needs to settle into the brain before you start hearing a lot of noise. It is not an honor to show the audience that you know when the piece is over by being the first one to show off your enthusiasm. What is really bad is when the audience applauds after a big cadence before the piece is really over, like in the Trout Quintet.

 

RE: Listening to some Classical Music, posted on September 25, 2014 at 08:17:25
Bill Way
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 You don't have to know the music well. Look at the program - many pieces have several movements, so if you are hearing the Suite Bergamasque, you know there will be four parts. For the Op. 28 preludes, don't count; the performer will show when (s)he is done. If you are wondering when to applaud, your mind is in the wrong place. Get it back into the music and tune everything else out.

And yes, it generally helps to wait that second or two at the end so you don't barge in on your fellow audience members who may be holding on to magic of the performance. Sometimes, rarely, everyone will sit in silence at the end because they are so overcome by the performance. That happened some years back in New York with Vanska conducting Minnesota in the Mahler 1st. It was a shattering performance, and when the ovation began it swelled to a roar. Afterwards, out on the plaza, about half the audience just stood around, saying very little, still taking it all in.

That's what it's all about.

WW
"Put on your high heeled sneakers. Baby, we''re goin'' out tonight.

 

Well, not everyone, posted on September 25, 2014 at 10:36:53
Chris from Lafayette
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 You're right about the Horowitz concerts - he's usually playing works that are well known and many in the audience probably even knew his interpretations already from recordings. One critic (I forget who it was) used to call the audiences that attended Horowitz' concerts (and for that matter Cliburn's and a few others' too) "bullfighter audiences" - they were there to see the soloist triumph over the musical dangers and to yell "Ole!" in approval! (Well, just about!) ;-) OTOH, some of this results from a need for genuine emotional release: I remember one guy telling me about attending Gilels' debut tour of the US. At the concert he attended, some people were so delirious that they were pounding the walls at the end!

I can't remember if I posted this before, but I attended a performance of Stravinsky's "Petrouchka" with the LA Phil and Mehta many years ago. Near the very end where the music dies down into nothingness, just before the ghostly reiterations of Petrouchka's motive are sounded softly, some dolt in the audience started applauding and would not stop. Of course, this moronic behavior ruined the whole conclusion for the rest of the audience, and the real applause (after the real end of the piece) seemed more embarrassed than anything else.

However, I must say that I've been a perpetrator of a couple applause offenses myself. I remember attending a performance by Weissenberg of the Rachmaninoff Third and getting so excited by it that I had to scream "BRAVO!" at the top of my lungs immediately when the last note had sounded. On another occasion (and this was not too many years ago), I attended a performance of the Prokofiev Fourth Piano Concerto (the one for the left hand), and for some reason forgot how many movements it had. (I was thinking three, but it actually has four, the fourth being a short little postlude.) So there I was clapping by myself between the third and fourth movements, and thinking to myself, "Why am I the only one applauding?". As Governor Perry is fond of saying, "Oops!". ;-)

 

RE: Poor counting skills., posted on September 25, 2014 at 10:54:02
ahendler
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 I have been attending classical concerts for 60 years and it is my observation that clapping between movements is on the increase. It really bothered me for a while but now I just take the view point that the audience was never taught that it isn't done and they just want to show there appreciation. I am slowly getting used to it although I still won't join in
Alan

 

Yes, but you can make arguments both ways., posted on September 25, 2014 at 11:44:58
rbolaw
 I suppose a prime rationale of clapping etiquette is allowing the audience to hear the music clearly and without distraction. A large modern concert hall in particular can get very noisy very easily. I find candy wrappers and cell phones especially irritating.

The argument on the other side is that you need to bring in an audience, especially a new, young audience, to classical music. If clapping and cheering in the middle of a performance (as is still the accepted practice in opera) helps make it more fun for them, then let it be so, or so the argument goes.

Interesting question, but I don't have the answer for this one.

 

The beauty of listening to it at home..., posted on September 25, 2014 at 14:21:26
Jim Treanor
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 is that no one frowns or gives me a fish-eye when I clap or cheer at mid-movement in response to a well-performed passage. I restrict my good behavior to live performances.


Jim

 

The Tchaikovsky 6th is a perennial problem, when it comes to this, posted on September 25, 2014 at 16:25:50
vinyl phanatic
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 Clapping at the end of the third movement has almost become a tradition. I heard it years ago in Philly at the Academy of Music with Ormandy and they went nuts after the third movement. Ormandy waited patiently until the uproar was over, then proceeded.

Recently I heard it with the National SO, with Eschenbach conducting. He was determined not to let it happen, keeping his arms in the air at the end of the third movement and using every bit of body language he could muster, but there was still a considerable amount of applause. Undeterred, he dove into the last movement while there was still applause going on, which ruined that particular moment for me (overall, it was quite a good performance). Sure, I get it, in a perfect world the audience doesn't applaud there, but to charge ahead like that, as if he was teaching us a lesson, annoyed the hell out of me. "Two wrongs don't make a right"

 

Applause between movements hasn't always been frowned upon, posted on September 25, 2014 at 18:10:21
hesson11
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 If what I've read is correct, it was perfectly appropriate to applaud between movements of a composition until Gustav Mahler became a conductor and, through the power of his personality, decreed that it should be abolished. Actually, I really like to hear it because it's an indication that new blood is finding its way into the concert hall. That's good news for classical music.
-Bob

 

RE: The Tchaikovsky 6th is a perennial problem, when it comes to this, posted on September 26, 2014 at 03:36:52
pbarach
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 In the 70s, I saw Rudolf Kempe conduct the Royal Philharmonic in Tchaikovsky 6. He left NO break between the last two movements--just instantly went from the triumphant march into those agonized strings. It was really quite an emotional leap from a cliff. I thought about the music quite differently after that--and also there was no chance for intervening applause.

 

RE: Applause between movements hasn't always been frowned upon, posted on September 26, 2014 at 09:02:30
rbolaw
 Those are exactly the points I tried to make in my posts. However, it is also true that today's enormous concert halls can get very noisy very quickly, and clapping and cheering can drown out the music if there are no rules of decorum, never mind candy wrappers, cell phones and general random noise. Outside of classical music, the answer seems to be ear-splittingly loud amplification.

 

RE: Listening to some Classical Music, posted on September 26, 2014 at 20:09:34
Todd Krieger
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 "It amuses me that the audience knows EXACTLY when to clap! I usually have to wait a split second to realize that it IS appropriate time to clap. Just listening to some Horowitz where EVERYONE appears to know to clap at the same time. I presume that they already know the music very well."

The program usually provides the clue.... In my young years, before I knew better, I just waited for the rest of the audience to applaud........

 

How About Tchaikovsky's 5th..........., posted on September 26, 2014 at 20:11:31
Todd Krieger
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 There is a pause late in the final movement, and the audience often applauds there........

 

The Worst I've Seen Was......... [yt], posted on September 26, 2014 at 20:23:14
Todd Krieger
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 The Beethoven Nine in Los Angeles, when Gustavo Dudamel conducted the Los Angeles Philharmonic..... Not only did the audience applaud between the movements, it also applauded after the "Vor Gott" choral climax in the final movement.... (This is the only occasion I recall this happening.) Embarrassing.

The applause takes place at 10:40 of the linked clip.... (It was otherwise a mediocre performance. So you won't get bored waiting for it.) Dudamel looked a little miffed when that happened.....

 

RE: The Tchaikovsky 6th is a perennial problem, when it comes to this, posted on September 26, 2014 at 20:24:56
Todd Krieger
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Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
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 "In the 70s, I saw Rudolf Kempe conduct the Royal Philharmonic in Tchaikovsky 6. He left NO break between the last two movements--just instantly went from the triumphant march into those agonized strings. It was really quite an emotional leap from a cliff. I thought about the music quite differently after that--and also there was no chance for intervening applause."

I recall several conductors doing this, but don't remember who in particular......

 

Not sure if it's a problem for the 6th..., posted on September 26, 2014 at 21:45:24
kuma
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 Earlier this year I've attended a Dohnanyi/CSO's 6th and the 3rd movement was so driving full of energy, the audience, including myself, could not help but to cheer the 85 year old conductor!

I saw him smiling so he didn't mind.

 

RE: The Worst I've Seen Was......... [yt], posted on September 26, 2014 at 22:05:01
Chris from Lafayette
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 That's great - thanks for the link!

Of course, this is not so different from the first (original!) performance of Haydn's "The Creation", where the audience applauded when the sun came out (musically, that is)! I've sometimes wondered whether such audience behavior ought to be incorporated into the authentic performance practice for this Oratorio - HIP for audiences, if you will. Who knows, maybe Haydn expected it! ;-)

 

These days audiences are unpreditable, posted on September 27, 2014 at 16:02:00
Botanico92007
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 I guess I've seen it all. I've seen a conductor turn and glare at the audience with applause between movements. I've seen a conductor turn and smile to acknowledge the applause. I've see the same with small chamber music groups of duos, trios, and quartets when the players either stoically bear it or smile. I can usually predict when the "inappropriate" applause will come. If the music is loud and/or fast, the applause is likely to come.

I'm not dogmatic about all of this. I've seen the audience sit quietly at the end, if the performance seems to demand it. I've seen the audience come in too early. My rule is to never start the applause unless I know the music has ended and the audience doesn't realize it and the performers don't give any clues. This is usually short pieces that aren't part of a complete suite or set. What to do if a pianist plays 2 or 3 Chopin Waltzes or 2 or 3 Debussy Preludes? The performer needs to give a signal -- a very long pause with a look to the audience or a quick launch into the next selection. Still, no guarantees.

 

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