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Speaking of Brahms........ [yt]

70.190.203.46
Posted on September 16, 2014 at 23:42:00
Todd Krieger
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Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000
 Charles Munch wasn't known as a Brahms interpreter like his BSO predecessor Serge Koussevitzky..... But he was phenomenal with the Brahms Two conducting the Boston Symphony..... The "Koussevizky Sound" in full glory here. (The wind playing is as good as it gets.) This is also a superlative recording for its time.

Link is audio-only. Studio recording.

 

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Exactly - I've always liked that recording even more for its engineering , posted on September 17, 2014 at 00:51:26
Chris from Lafayette
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  Since: February 6, 2012
 Ah! The days of minimal microphoning!

 

RE: Speaking of Brahms........ [yt], posted on September 17, 2014 at 03:50:02
pbarach
Audiophile

Posts: 3306
Location: Ohio
Joined: June 22, 2008
 Another good recording of Munch in Brahms is the first piano concerto with Graffman:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oKlJc3bFQo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crBEZUsr7B8

 

Great recording! Odd that RCA didn't issue it in stereo until much later, except for:, posted on September 17, 2014 at 06:03:36
vinyl phanatic
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Posts: 1596
Location: Washington DC
Joined: May 22, 2006
 this two track tape, which sounds terrific. First stereo issue on disc was in the 70's on Gold Seal AGL1 2702. I like this much better than either the first or the fourth which were issued as Living Stereos. Who knows?



 

RE: Exactly - I've always liked that recording even more for its engineering , posted on September 17, 2014 at 22:01:05
learsfool
Audiophile

Posts: 1001
Joined: August 4, 2008
 Yup - one of the many things to bemoan about digital technology taking over... :) Don't want to start an argument, just couldn't resist the aside....

 

But. . . but. . . you can have minimalist microphoning with digital too, posted on September 17, 2014 at 22:32:35
Chris from Lafayette
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 I admit that more recent attempts at minimalist microphoning (on the WaterLily and Nishimura labels - both labels not generally available, I think) have attained varying levels of success (although, the general average is still pretty high).

I'm going through a lot of my Mercury CD's now (transferring them to iTunes in lossless 16/44.1 AIFF), and, in checking random tracks here and there, I'm still astounded at how wonderful so many of these old 3-omni Mercury Living Presence recordings still sound. I hope I have time to post about some of them tomorrow.

 

RE: But. . . but. . . you can have minimalist microphoning with digital too, posted on September 18, 2014 at 08:03:53
Old SteveA
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: March 27, 2011
 The thing that I've found out is that an enormous amount of "Remastered"
early recording biggest flaws are not related to the Original recordings
but the "heavy handed Remastering process" that may have been used.

The thing that just "blows me away" is how relatively simple it is to
"erase" this misguided processing "veil" that is sitting on top of these recordings. To be honest it is unfair to attach too much blame to how these recordings were Remastered as they were trying to produce a product that had to fit a "Universal" playback standard. (which sat in place & was'nt revised to keep pace with technology advances as they became available; reminds you of outdated laws does'nt it ?).

Jump ahead to the present time where most of us have access to PCs & it's now a totally different "ballgame". It's no longer a matter of what "can't" done but learning how to use this personal tool to do things in a home setting that professionals back in the '60s could'nt fathom we'd be
able to do. The technology you have sitting in front of you is more "powerful" then the tech that was used to create the Digital Remasters of the Analog Recordings. I find that most of the time Digital that came from Analog responds fantastically beyond where I thought it could.

Basically you have to be willing play around with different means of changing the "Digital" properties of the music files, some of these may
be the only reason you can't see the "Forrest for the Trees". It goes without saying you should archive the source file losslessly ,should your efforts not be to your liking... You can try it again,until you find a result that works

(This sounds like "Crazy Audiophile" talk not "Music Lover" talk; Really this stuff is not that hard & worth every second of the effort when the characteristics of what you remembered of many recordings gain back a similar sense of Musicality to them)

 

Very nice! Competition for Bruno Walter..., posted on September 18, 2014 at 12:03:54
andy evans
Audiophile

Posts: 4378
Joined: October 20, 2000
 Bruno Walter is my go-to version of this, the later stereo.

But damn, this is good!

 

RE: But. . . but. . . you can have minimalist microphoning with digital too, posted on September 18, 2014 at 18:17:35
learsfool
Audiophile

Posts: 1001
Joined: August 4, 2008
 Yes, Chris, it could be done, however most engineers would be fired if they tried - for not "taking advantage of the capabilities of the technology." MANY of them have told me this. It is a crying shame.

 

Yup, I agree - we need audiophile fighters in charge of the recording companies! [nt] ;-), posted on September 18, 2014 at 21:55:42
Chris from Lafayette
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  Since: February 6, 2012

 

RE: Very nice! Competition for Bruno Walter..., posted on September 18, 2014 at 23:59:49
Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000
 I've always viewed Bruno Walter as the standard for Brahms.... In the case of the Two, there is an added delicacy to the lighter passages.... One of my favorite passages is the wind calls echoing the heavy orchestration in the final movement.... Walter captures the magic here..... Munch, as well as Szell, very close, but not quite. Szell's Brahms Two is IMO very similar to Munch's read, but the recording isn't nearly as good. (Szell did the best Brahms Three to make recording. The Brahms Four goes back to Walter, but Serge Koussevitzky was great too.)

 

Hmm. . . that didn't come out the way I wanted it to, posted on September 19, 2014 at 01:01:15
Chris from Lafayette
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Posts: 26423
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 6, 2012
 What I MEANT was that we need folks in charge of record companies who would fight for audiophile interests. What I posted sounds like I wanted folks who were going to fight audiophiles - we've already got enough of those! ;-)

 

There's a rehearsal of Brahms 2 here.., posted on September 19, 2014 at 02:43:31
andy evans
Audiophile

Posts: 4378
Joined: October 20, 2000
 He managed to get the same sound out of different orchestras - at the start of the rehearsal in Vancouver (38 min) he asks "where are the horns?", "who is the first trumpet" etc. And almost immediately his sound was apparent. "Sing, SIng, Sing!" he continually says to the strings and at the start it is continually "expressivo - diminuendo.."

Very interesting comments on Walter by Isaac Stern - "He cajoled the orchestra - it was gentle but insistent and it would not stop until he had his way. There was an apparent gentleness, because he was one of the most stubborn and iron willed of persons"

Walter himself talks of "warm heart, sincerity, human qualities" as the way to connect with the orchestra.

Orchestras liked him (and Solti) for talking as they conducted so the music didn't stop so often.

 

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