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CAS5 - Day 1 - Classical Music View - Three Rooms

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Posted on August 15, 2014 at 20:39:08
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I spent only a couple of hours at CAS5 today. The parking at the Westin was full and I had to find another lot which turned out to be considerably more expensive per hour. Grr!

I visited only three rooms.

Starting the day by visiting the Music Lovers Audio room (featuring Audio Research electronics, Transparent Cable, and the Wilson Sasha W/P Series 2’s), I had a bit of a shock in the sense that this was the best Wilson exhibit at CAS I’ve seen. (And AFAIR, I’ve been to all of the CAS’s so far.) The previous Wilson exhibit that sticks in my mind is a year or two ago when they demo-ing in a much larger room and with a much higher-end model pair than the Sashas. What made that older exhibit distinctly unimpressive in my view was the use of source material that was IMHO far from state of the art: early London/Decca LP’s. (I remember that one of the tracks featured pianist Peter Katin, and there was some very early, pre-Chicago Solti too – not the VPO Ring Cycle however!) I’m sorry, as holistic and well recorded for their time as those recordings invariably are, they just do not challenge SOTA systems like the best modern recordings do, so I just saw the whole demo as wasteful and unimpressive.

Today’s demo was in a smaller room – I walked in during the playback of some organ music I didn’t recognize (to demonstrate the reproduction of the instrument’s 32-foot stop). The music continued with a new cut from 72-year-old Tom Jones (he of the animal magnetism!). Peter McGrath then asked the listeners (about 6 of us), “What music would you like to hear?”. I couldn’t resist answering, “We’re audiophiles – we listen to sound – not music!”. For whatever reason, Peter then put on the first movement of Mahler’s Fifth – very well played and recorded. After a few minutes, I asked him whose recording this was. It turned out to be Michael Tilson Thomas – NOT with the San Francisco Symphony however, but with (Florida) New World Symphony. This was a recording that Peter had made himself at 24/88.2. He had actually recorded in 4-channel, but the demo was set up only for regular stereo. After awhile, just to prove he had really recorded in surround, he fed the rear channels into the two front stereo speakers that we were hearing. It was as if you had moved far back into the hall and then turned around with your back to the orchestra. “Some listeners prefer it this way!”, he joked! In any case, the sound was amazing, especially considering that there was no mix-down of the rear channels into the original front channel sound that we heard. Very impressive!

Next he played an excerpt (again his own recording at 24/88.2) from a recent Florida recital by pianist Benjamin Grosvenor: the Waltz from Gounod’s “Faust”, transcribed for piano by Liszt. As we’ve mentioned on this board just recently, Grosvenor has the chops to play anything, and overall, this was an excellent performance (even though I felt that the melodic eighth-notes in the introduction were consistently under-accented – they hardly registered as they should have, and they were played the same way when they returned later in the piece). The rep from Music Lovers Audio (sorry, I forgot his name) made a comment about the piano being used, and Peter revealed that the piano had had some significant work done on it recently. To give us a taste of what the piano sounded like prior to this work, he then played another of his own recordings of an earlier recital by Grosvenor: the slow movement of Beethoven’s Piano Sonata in E-flat, Op. 7 (not repertoire I would have associated with Grosvenor thus far in his career). There was a very noticeable difference in the piano tone, caused not only by the different states of the piano itself, but also by the different microphone placement in the two recitals.

At this point I began to feel that I was hogging the “sweet spot seat” (first row, dead center), so I got up and moved to the back, and left shortly thereafter. It was hard to believe I had been there almost an hour. Overall, I was more impressed than I’ve ever been before by the sound quality of the Wilson speakers, even though these Sashas seem to be from the more “affordable” end of the Wilson line. I was also impressed with the willingness of Peter and the Music Lovers Audio rep to go into unhurried detail regarding the speakers themselves and the source material. This was one of the most pleasant experiences I’ve had at an audio show.

My next visit was to the Ultimate Audio Sound Lab Room, with electronics by Ayre. What a surprise – I had seen photos of the Sound Lab Majestic speakers, but I somehow hadn’t extrapolated what I’d read into a realistic mental conception of their actual size. These babies are nine-feet tall! We would have to have our 8-and-a-half-foot ceiling taken out for them to fit in our living room. (Good thing we’re not in the market right now for a $40,000+ pair of speakers anyway!) They sounded wonderful, but they were just too big for the room (which was about half the size of the room with the Wilson/AR set-up – although both rooms had sufficiently high ceilings – LOL!). Also, I felt that the volume level was a bit too high for the size of the room. The source material here was a Delos recording of singer Sandra Radvanovsky in the aria from Verdi’s “Il trovatore”, “Tacea la notte placida”, with the Philharmonia of Russia, Constantine Orbelian conducting. I had not heard Radvanovsky before, but this excerpt makes me want to investigate her work further – this is a pretty imposing voice! I’m sure that in the right environment, these Majestics would sound great, but, just in summary, I felt they overwhelmed that small room.

I next moved on to an even smaller room, which contained a pair of smaller speakers, the Magico S5’s, with Spectral electronics and MIT cabling. The source material was an audiophile favorite: the Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dance No. 1 with Eiji Oue and the Minnesota Orchestra (in their more halcyon days!) on a Reference recording. I have a 24/96 hi-rez download of this performance, so I’m pretty familiar with it. Here, it seemed to me that there was the opposite problem from the Sound Lab room in that the level was a bit too low, with not enough sound pumped out. This low-level was especially noticeable because of the open door and the sound of the louder music from a couple of adjoining rooms spilling into this room. From what I could hear, these speakers sounded airy and detailed, but perhaps a little bass shy (could be a function of level however).

As is my usual habit, I did not sample rooms which were not playing classical music when I passed by (too hard for me to judge with music I don’t know), so I hope to get to other demo rooms over the next couple of days as the musical selections get swapped and updated. I don’t have any photos from today, but I did convince my wife (against her better judgment!) to attend on Sunday. She’s the photographer in the family, so perhaps I can post some of her shots after the end of the show on Sunday.

 

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Yikes! Do I need to come early?, posted on August 15, 2014 at 20:46:31
Ivan303
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Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
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Should be parking by 8:30 -9:00?

I hope so.


First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: Yikes! Do I need to come early?, posted on August 15, 2014 at 22:22:42
Posts: 26476
Location: SF Bay Area
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I've never run into this problem before, so I can't tell you. As you know, it doesn't start until 10:00. I probably won't be there until 11:00.

 

Thanks, Chris, and a favor (if you don't mind)...., posted on August 16, 2014 at 10:03:34
Russell
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Great info as always, Chris. I'm not able to make it to CAS5 this year, but I'm wondering if you could do me a favor when you're there today or tomorrow: I see that Reference Recordings is exhibiting, and if you could ask them when they expect to make their latest releases, specifically the Hindemith/Prokofiev/Bartok with Stern/Kansas City and the Dvorak/Janacek with Honeck/Pittsburgh, available as high-res downloads, that would be great. They've been out for a little while now, and I've yet to see hi-res versions available via the usual sources (HDtracks, Acoustic Sounds, ProStudioMasters).

Thanks,
Russell

 

Peter McGrath, posted on August 16, 2014 at 16:45:16
hesson11
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Location: Florida
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Peter McGrath is one of the world's finest recording engineers, in my estimation (at least he was, prior to joining Wilson, though perhaps he still does some recording). I have several of his recordings, including the Mahler First with James Judd and the Florida Philharmonic Orchestra, and it is absolutely magnificent.

-Bob

 

RE: Thanks, Chris, and a favor (if you don't mind)...., posted on August 16, 2014 at 18:57:35
Posts: 26476
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Hi, Russell - I just got back from today's show, where I met up with Ivan303 and spent most of the day attending seminars and demos with him. One of the places we went was to the Reference Recordings booth, but unfortunately, I hadn't seen your note and did not ask about the download availability of the latest releases

Unfortunately, I seem to have sprung a radiator leak in my car on the way back, so it's now uncertain as to whether I'll be able to get back to the show tomorrow. I'll see what the WAF is regarding my chances of being driven there in her car! (If I make it there, I'll definitely drop by and ask about the new releases at the Reference booth.)

 

RE: Peter McGrath, posted on August 16, 2014 at 18:59:39
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Yes - the selections of his own (not commercially released) recordings that Peter demo'd were excellent!

 

RE: Thanks, Chris, and a favor (if you don't mind)...., posted on August 16, 2014 at 22:51:51
Russell
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Let's hope she'll be sympathetic and understanding!!! (And if you don't make it, I'll just write to RR.)

Thanks again,
Russell

 

As of right now, it's looking good! [nt] ;-), posted on August 17, 2014 at 00:25:07
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RE: CAS5 - Day 1 - Classical Music View - Three Rooms, posted on August 17, 2014 at 05:16:35
fantja
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Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
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Excellent oversight Chris!
any of you guys have pics oof the show?

 

If I get there today, my wife will take pics [nt], posted on August 17, 2014 at 09:25:06
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RE: CAS5 - Day 1 - "Unimpressive source material", posted on August 17, 2014 at 11:10:51
Thanks, Chris, very interesting. I was especially interested in your comment that early 1960s London/Decca LPs are not worthy source material for a system that likely retails for well above $100k if it included large monoblock AR amplifiers or at least $50k even if it didn't.

As we all know, back in the heyday of the LP, most serious, no expense or trouble spared audiophiles considered reel-to-reel tape the true high end format. Nowadays, that format is nearly forgotten and even the most well-heeled analog fanatics belong to the cult of the vinyl LP. Nobody has ever satisfactorily explained that to me. The sonic superiority of the tape format over LPs has been sufficiently demonstrated to me, both with tapes from the late 50s-early 60s "golden age" and 21st century ones (check out The Tape Project -- reels for the 15 ips half-track decks that were typically used in recording studios).

If there are enough buyers out there to justify these $100k plus analog systems, why hasn't tape made a bigger comeback?

 

RE:RTR, posted on August 17, 2014 at 12:28:43
unclestu
Dealer

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is making a small comeback In th Pacific Northwest. IIRC there is a company actually making RTR copies and refurbishing decks, as well as coming out with a "new" deck.

Also in Japan during the 60's no respectable high end store was without a RTR deck. TTs were only used when evaluating TT' arms and cartridges and their phono sections.

 

Answer: The downloads should be available "soon", posted on August 17, 2014 at 16:49:37
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They said that some problem with their distributor delayed the roll-out of the downloads of the particular releases that you asked about. Now, as to how soon "soon" is, I'm afraid I did not press them on that question. ;-)

 

Thanks again, Chris! (And thank your wife, too!) ;-) (nt), posted on August 17, 2014 at 23:14:15
Russell
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nt

 

RE: CAS5 - Day 1 - "Unimpressive source material", posted on August 18, 2014 at 05:52:34
Dave Pogue
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I bow to no one in my open reel tape fanaticism, but even I know why tape will never be a particularly big deal. It's the ultimate "hair shirt" medium in terms of playback ergonomics -- you can't find a given track or snippet on a 7" reel, and heaven help you if searching for one on a 10 1/2" reel. Raw tape prices are through the roof and less than a handful of tape manufacturers are still in business. The machines are ultra-complex electromechanical beasts. I know of no brand new machines; the few being sold are mods -- good ones, but mods -- of decades-old decks. Finding a good tape tech -- and the decks need regular servicing and adjustment if they're to be at their best-- is tough.

And yet, and yet. Multi-generation dupes of classic master tapes go routinely for $400-600 on eBay. There are some 9,000 offerings of old commercial tapes every day on eBay, a field day for Jim Nabors fans. The better open reel tapes sound great and the REALLY good ones sound just fantastic. But most of them don't. And any that have been played with magnetized tapeheads will have no highs. Buying them is a pure crapshoot. Or you can spend $300-500 for new or reissue tapes, but you have to have a 15 inch per second, 2-track tape deck to play them on. And most consumer decks won't do this. If yours does, though, and you have the money, you're in heaven.

Oh, and the spinning reels are hypnotic. Let's not overlook that :-)

 

RE: CAS5 - Day 1 - "Unimpressive source material", posted on August 18, 2014 at 07:14:56
I get ya. But when you do find a tape in top condition, you can make a high rez digital file from it that will still be superior to the original LP. Let's face it, even an ordinary 16/44 digital file will be superior in most cases, because the tape sounds at least a generation closer to the original master tape, as has been convincingly demonstrated to me with some superb sounding LPs.

A $150k system will squeeze more from the LP, but I don't see how you could ever make up for the difference in software.

A friend found one of those 15 ips decks in an antique shop in decent shape, and had it completely restored for a total investment of under $500. Yes, the tapes cost $300 each, so he only bought three of them. But if they came down in price, say to a mere $100 ...

 

Good thinking. But a few things to consider., posted on August 18, 2014 at 07:52:26
Dave Pogue
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The tapes will never come down to $100. Hell, the raw tape alone costs almost that much. And that 15 ips deck your friend found will still be playing the tapes back via its internal, decades-old solid state preamps (I had my own Otari rewired to enable tape head output to a current-model deHavilland tape head preamp). Interconnects and power cords have to be considered here too; they make a big sonic difference in my setup.

As to making a digital file, I wouldn't do that for a variety of reasons if I was interested in sonics uber alles, but for convenience' sake it would definitely be worthwhile.

Once your friend transfers the tapes to digital, ask if he'll sell them to me at a discount :-)

 

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