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3.6R crossover mods

172.218.100.233
Posted on December 27, 2022 at 14:11:48
watts
Audiophile

Posts: 536
Location: B.C.
Joined: June 30, 2004



Well it has taken me 15 years but I finally got around to swapping out the internal crossover bits with some upgrades. I already have an XM44 active crossover for the bass to mid/tweets, and no, I didn't want to go active 3-way. I have enough money in speaker cables :)

Sonic craft Sonicaps, including the platinum bypass ($$$), Solen inductors, and Neotech teflon coated OCC 20 gauge for the tweeter re-wire and 16ga for the binding post terminals. I direct soldered to the tweeter steel tabs and to the Cardas binding posts using Cardas silver solder. Nice to have the 5 cent clips gone.

For the wires at the panels I clamped the wires and one inductor under the existing rectangular tabs making sure they made contact with the ends of the wires, and then decided to melt some solder on top, so yes it looks pretty globby.(waiting for Davey to critique me ;) Not sure what else I could have done here (?) Also wondered if connecting the inductor end in the clamp is "normal".

I planned to do one side and listen to the differences, then do the other, but one of my Nord Hypex amps had other ideas. It worked fine when I turned it off, but one channel decided to stop working upon powering it back on. Looks like it's the C38 cap in one of the SMPS1200A700, which is bulging. I love the sound coming from the these Hypex NC500 units but they sure aren't reliable.

So I did listen for a while, just using one of the amps powering the mids/tweets, and I do hear differences but it sounds like #$@$ without the bass panels, so decided to just do the other speaker. Break in and serious listening will have to wait to get the amp fixed, or wait for a different VTV I just ordered; whichever comes first.

Looking for constructive feedback on my first crossover work ;)


 

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You've already done the best thing you could do, IMO, by actively biamping. :), posted on December 27, 2022 at 17:37:21
MWE
Audiophile

Posts: 2202
Location: Burlington, NC
Joined: June 8, 2000
 But you've done a nice job with the M/T crossovers. I've biamped my 3.6Rs to beneficial effect, but probably won't take the plunge you have with the internals. I've already had the socks off once, and don't want to go through that again!


Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon

 

RE: You've already done the best thing you could do, IMO, by actively biamping. :), posted on December 28, 2022 at 00:17:43
Roger Gustavsson
Audiophile

Posts: 2054
Location: Huskvarna
Joined: February 12, 2010
 It looks great. Are the values of the components similar to the original ones? Maybe, different slopes could have been tested.

A second look made me wonder. The coils in series with the midrange look tiny to me. What DCR do they have? Of the original coils, I think only the one with the iron core is kind of "cheap". The other coils are probably okey.

 

RE: You've already done the best thing you could do, IMO, by actively biamping. :), posted on December 28, 2022 at 11:25:15
watts
Audiophile

Posts: 536
Location: B.C.
Joined: June 30, 2004
 My fingers are still hurting from pulling out the infinite number of staples. I got smarter with the second panel though: I was actually able to pull out the tweeter wire from its slot underneath the sock and put in the replacement with all the staples under the tweeter array in place, and only needing to pull up the sock on the bottom portion, which is much easier.

 

RE: You've already done the best thing you could do, IMO, by actively biamping. :), posted on December 28, 2022 at 11:39:17
watts
Audiophile

Posts: 536
Location: B.C.
Joined: June 30, 2004



Identical, yes. Here is the stock network to compare. Actually, I didn't notice this until now but the 0.1 uf bypass filter is not on my oem network. I had just a 15 and 2 uf cap in parallel.

The coils are .27, .47 and .82 mH, same as factory (not sure if .47 vs .45 makes any difference). I assume the OEM ones I removed are the same values as the picture, but no way to know as they don't have the values labeled on them. I hear ya, the .27 and .45 OEM ones are air core, but for $26 CDN why not change them out. And I agree, the .45 in the top left looks rather small, but the wire is a thinner gauge, so it has more coils.

 

RE: You've already done the best thing you could do, IMO, by actively biamping. :), posted on December 29, 2022 at 00:57:15
Roger Gustavsson
Audiophile

Posts: 2054
Location: Huskvarna
Joined: February 12, 2010
 The 0.82 and 0.27 mH need to have a low reistance (DCR) in order to not modify the frequency response. The 0.47 mH is less critical.

Magnepan seems to have chosen the third order low pass on the mid in order to reduce a peak higher up in the mid. The high pass on the ribbon tweeter is set rather low and streeses the ribbon a bit more than in some other models with the ribbon.

 

RE: You've already done the best thing you could do, IMO, by actively biamping. :), posted on December 29, 2022 at 05:12:08
watts
Audiophile

Posts: 536
Location: B.C.
Joined: June 30, 2004
 youre knowledge of crossovers is better than mine. I don't know anything about checking the resistance of inductors; I assumed just getting the correct Henry value was sufficient?

So here is the specs of the inductors I put in:

0.43 ohms for .82 mH
0.22 ohms for .27mH

This is what Jeff at Sonic Craft suggested I get, I assume he knows what he is doing. Let me know if the values are fine, I do see they have lower resistance inductors available, but the prices get crazy for really low resistance .82 inductors.

I have no issues redoing some things if I don't like what I hear, gives me something to do before golf season starts :)

 

RE: You've already done the best thing you could do, IMO, by actively biamping. :), posted on December 29, 2022 at 06:12:13
Roger Gustavsson
Audiophile

Posts: 2054
Location: Huskvarna
Joined: February 12, 2010
 I was just a bit surprised that your aircore coils looked so small compared to the ones Magnepan installed. That could mean yours are having a higher resistance. The series resistance reduce the output of the midrange. If you liked the tonal balance of the original crossover and now use coils with higher resistances, it may sound a bit different.

As Magnepan used an ironcored coil for the 0.82 mH-coil, I guess it has a low resistance, probably lower than your Solen coil. It is true tht aircored coils get expensive if you go for low resistance. That is also the reason to why Magnepan uses them frequently.

If you like the sound of your 3.6 the way they are now - do nothing.

 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods, posted on December 29, 2022 at 07:58:58
Davey
 You kinda went 'audiophile' with your mods. ie, $$$$$
I would have recommended Madisound for parts vice somebody like Jeff Glowhacki.

The soldering doesn't look great, but that's because you're using silver solder. Just a normal rosin-core SN63 is much preferable.

Dave.

 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods, posted on December 29, 2022 at 13:50:37
watts
Audiophile

Posts: 536
Location: B.C.
Joined: June 30, 2004
 Thanks Davey, I'll take that as a compliment :)

Of course with the exception of the tweeter and binding post terminals the silver solder is kind of redundant. After twisting the wires together I could not budge those connections with my fingers, so the contact was made between wire ends, cap ends and inductor ends, and the solder is just there to hold it tight together over time of course. No current should flow through it anyway, but I already had that Cardas silver solder from 10 years ago when I put the proper binding posts on them and got rid of the fuses and resistor circuit.

Do you have any idea what the stock inductors LCR was by chance? I was going to buy a low ohmmeter out of curiosity but refrained. I might grab the .82 mH one and take it to an electronics repair shop and ask if they would measure it for me.

 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods, posted on December 29, 2022 at 14:36:28
Davey
 "Do you have any idea what the stock inductors LCR was by chance?"

I don't, but it's too late for that now, right? :)
Generally, inductors of these low values are fairly low DCR anyways. So, I don't think you've skewed the response significantly.

Silver-bearing solder can be troublesome to work with and has no advantage in this sort of application.
I wouldn't have any problem using the spade connectors. As long as they have a decent squeeze on the tab they'll be just fine.....and removable for convenience.

Dave.

 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods, posted on December 29, 2022 at 22:21:10
emailtim
Audiophile

Posts: 5373
Joined: July 2, 2017
 You should have went all in with some Duelund pure copper caps !!! =)



Nice upgrade. Let us know what you think after you get your amp situation straightened out.
.

2022/03/30 Historical Records CENSORED

 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods, posted on December 30, 2022 at 04:56:07
watts
Audiophile

Posts: 536
Location: B.C.
Joined: June 30, 2004
 Ha ha, that is one small coffee cup.

The Sonicap platinum's are not that far behind in price. It is pretty easy to be totally stupid and have your network cost twice what the whole speaker is worth.







Maybe on my next crossover build I'll put some of these in. They're on sale!!! : )



Linked here is a cool capacitor test resource I found in my browsing from guy with way too much time on his hands :)

 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods, posted on December 30, 2022 at 09:47:06
emailtim
Audiophile

Posts: 5373
Joined: July 2, 2017
 I bought a couple of pairs of hand matched Jantzen Superior Z's from HHHF for a pair of my Maggies. He was very professional and prompt with the cross-pond shipment. All measured spot on.

Also have a hand matched set of Mundorf MCap Supreme Silver Oils for the ribbons that I got with a store credit (customs had totally trashed an order shipment) from PartsConnexxion. Customs must have never seen electronic components before.

I wanted to try the Jupiter Copper Paper & Wax but PartsConnexion was out of the size I wanted (as well as many other suppliers).

Since then, Miflex coppers have become a popular cap, but they are huge.

This DIY amp build with Duelunds looks spendy as well as the shiny Torody:


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2022/03/30 Historical Records CENSORED

 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods, posted on December 30, 2022 at 09:55:49
watts
Audiophile

Posts: 536
Location: B.C.
Joined: June 30, 2004
 Which maggies? Did you do any tweaking, or just stock values? Or point me to a post if there was one I missed; which is quite likely as I go many months without checking any audio forums.

If my amps looked like that I would not put a cover on it :)

 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods, posted on December 30, 2022 at 10:31:04
emailtim
Audiophile

Posts: 5373
Joined: July 2, 2017
 I replaced the stock internal caps of my 20.1's with same values, then went full active with custom digital XO's (much faster to experiment/test than with physical caps and coils) and then applied the Saitie/Josh/... Tympani NEO8 midrange mods to the 20.1's.

I am now only using the Mundorfs as ribbon protection caps.

I am using RePhase to make the XO's and CamillaDSP as the realtime convolution engine. I modified one of the CamillaDSP accessories written by another gentlemen so I can very quickly switch between different XO's, house curves, filters, etc.

All processing is done in 64-bit float (XO, filters, playback chain, convolution engine) before outputting to the DAC.

Also spent time updating the DRC-FIR package to work at the driver level versus the speaker level. DRC-FIR was written in the 90's when digital XO's wasn't very prevalent. Since it works at the speaker level, it can't really fix individual driver issues in the XO region between the adjacent drivers. It can only average the sum.

Example, if driver A is spot on and driver B is off in one manner, it tries to correct both over the XO region thus making A worse and B somewhat better.

Correcting at the driver level, it doesn't touch A and only corrects B.

In general, the upgrades only corrects A as is needed by A and only corrects B as is needed by B.

Also adding other functions over time such as being able to specify target curves with FIRs versus some hand enter points, combining FIRs, changing the number of taps in a FIR, etc. That has been a learning curve for me.


.

2022/03/30 Historical Records CENSORED

 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods, posted on December 30, 2022 at 17:48:18
ketchup
Audiophile

Posts: 621
Location: Pennsylvania
Joined: February 29, 2004
 For the panel connections, is it possible to put the crossover wires directly on top of or under the voicecoil wires and use the clamps to squeeze them together?

Is that clamp steel? I wonder if you could use a sheet of copper above or below the wires to increase conductivity if it's not possible to make the crossover and voicecoil wires touch.

 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods, posted on December 30, 2022 at 23:58:26
Roger Gustavsson
Audiophile

Posts: 2054
Location: Huskvarna
Joined: February 12, 2010
 If think both can be done. The question is: Will it make a large difference?

 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods, posted on December 31, 2022 at 11:53:04
ketchup
Audiophile

Posts: 621
Location: Pennsylvania
Joined: February 29, 2004
 It wouldn't be a large difference, but any difference for the better seems worth the minimal effort.

 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods - Best I could do, posted on December 31, 2022 at 12:15:17
Barry
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Posts: 1001
Location: PA
Joined: November 24, 1999
Contributor
  Since: January 18, 2009
 This was a lot of work. Tri-amped system of 3.6s with subs and outboard, passive tweeter/midrange XO.









 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods, posted on December 31, 2022 at 13:40:05
watts
Audiophile

Posts: 536
Location: B.C.
Joined: June 30, 2004
 That is what I did. And as you say, if the small midrange and bass wires touch the crossover wires then the clamping material doesn't matter. It might be even better to have something non-conductive for the pressure.

But if one is concerned about having as little dissimilar materials in the signal path as possible (which is me) it should be better than the oem setup: tin coated copper stranded wires going through the tin clips, then through the steel plate, and then the panel wires.

 

Yowsers, posted on December 31, 2022 at 14:19:50
watts
Audiophile

Posts: 536
Location: B.C.
Joined: June 30, 2004
 Those are some Texas sized caps :)

What active crossover box is that?

 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods - Best I could do, posted on December 31, 2022 at 15:31:47
ketchup
Audiophile

Posts: 621
Location: Pennsylvania
Joined: February 29, 2004
 That looks great. How do they sound?

 

I'm guessing , posted on December 31, 2022 at 22:09:08
emailtim
Audiophile

Posts: 5373
Joined: July 2, 2017
 modified Pass Labs XVR1


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RE: 3.6R crossover mods - Best I could do, posted on December 31, 2022 at 22:15:31
emailtim
Audiophile

Posts: 5373
Joined: July 2, 2017
 Wow.

Can you comment on the (Jupiter, Duelund and VCap) cap upgrades ?

Did you try any other combinations before you settled on this configuration ?
.

2022/03/30 Historical Records CENSORED

 

RE: I'm guessing , posted on January 1, 2023 at 10:47:51
watts
Audiophile

Posts: 536
Location: B.C.
Joined: June 30, 2004
 Yup, that's it for sure. That 1/2" thick aluminum face must make the production cost of just the case $500.

Here is one for sale:

 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods - Best I could do, posted on January 1, 2023 at 17:14:13
Barry
Audiophile

Posts: 1001
Location: PA
Joined: November 24, 1999
Contributor
  Since: January 18, 2009
 SPEAKER MODS

The passive tweeter/midrange changes focused $$$ primarily on the parts in series, but everything was changed. Duelunds 3 big issues are price, size, and break-in. I put the 17uF caps on a cable cooker for a week as they still hadn't broken in after over 250 hours of use. The Cast Copper & Inductors are both exceptional offering immediacy, natural tone, space, and excellent dynamics. I added a silver foil Duelund tweeter cap bypass as the very top end as the sound was still missing a little presence and air.

The stock XO is ok for the price. All of my changes cost as much as the speaker - not remotely cost effective, or sensible, but, WOW, what a difference.

ACTIVE XO

Active is the only way to go on the T/M to bass panels on the 3.6s. However, every active crossover I've used has a sonic signature. The Pass Labs XVR-1-3 way XO has over 200 parts changes and was done in over 25 iterations from 2016-2020. The stock units were the best sounding actives I've heard, but a touch too warm, liquid, and opaque in my set up. If I knew what I was getting into, I would never have touched this - it's too complicated and took over 1,200 hours of listening and break-in. Some changes were just dreadful.

General comments on electronics in these mods:
1)You can't use all of 1 type of "best" part. Try it. Try again.

2) Jupiter and V-Caps are complementary in sound. Jupiter's are a touch too warm sounding. V-Cap (Copper) are a little too cool and lean. Multicap RTX polystyrene in the signal path - no. I like some polypropylenes.

3) Panasonic electrolytic caps are bettered by Elna Silmic IIs, but Black Gate FKs are still the best electrolytic (RIP). Not fond of newer AN Kaisei types.

4) Resistors matter and TX2575s (naked Vishays) are very transparent and noticeably lower in noise, but a little cool sounding if you use too many.

It's apples to oranges, but I'd say the modded passive XO closely rivals the modded active crossover in terms of sonics. I wouldn't gain anything if I went all active.







 

Yes, posted on January 1, 2023 at 17:23:21
Barry
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Contributor
  Since: January 18, 2009
 the 2 are used in bandpass mode with 2 separate, modified power supplies, 2 custom DC umbilical cords, and sitting on 2 sets of Center Stage footers.

 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods - Best I could do, posted on January 1, 2023 at 20:34:51
watts
Audiophile

Posts: 536
Location: B.C.
Joined: June 30, 2004
 I compliment you on your perseverance and patience.

Are they finished? :) Or is there something else on your to do list?

 

Done,, posted on January 2, 2023 at 09:28:43
Barry
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Posts: 1001
Location: PA
Joined: November 24, 1999
Contributor
  Since: January 18, 2009
 I haven't commented here on the wiring changes, upgraded Mye stands and frame mods, Center Stage speaker footers, subwoofers, electrical balancing of the active XO channels, or use of REW for setting crossover points, slopes, Qs, and room placement or trials with DSP. There's not much left of consequence to experiment with on these 3.6s that I haven't already tried.

Time to stop fiddling and listen to music.


 

Digital vs Analogue active crossovers? (Bryston, Krell, Pass..), posted on January 2, 2023 at 11:10:07
Jon L
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Posts: 6061
Joined: April 6, 2000
 "However, every active crossover I've used has a sonic signature."

I agree wholeheartedly with this statement, and it's especially difficult to maintain utmost transparency while retaining dynamic slam.

You say stock Pass XVR-1 is "a touch too warm, liquid, and opaque," but was it more transparent than say the Krell or Bryston active crossovers?

I had always felt digital crossovers could never sound "good enough" compared to best analogue active crossovers, but have you tried some of the better digital crossovers?

My Bryston 10B STD active crossover has recently died. It was "good enough" for my use if I did not use its volume/level control. I'm messing around with dbx DriveRack PA2 digital crossover, and I must say it sounds surprisingly much better than I had expected, when asked to do the very minimum DSP processing (just crossover point and slope. No volume or any other dsp processing).

p.s. If anyone is looking to unload a Bryston 10B STD active crossover, please do let me know :)

 

RE: Digital vs Analogue active crossovers? (Bryston, Krell, Pass..), posted on January 2, 2023 at 13:09:56
Davey
 Repair your Bryston????

Dave.

 

RE: Digital vs Analogue active crossovers? (Bryston, Krell, Pass..), posted on January 2, 2023 at 15:06:40
watts
Audiophile

Posts: 536
Location: B.C.
Joined: June 30, 2004
 Exactly. I have had to bring my XM44 to a shop twice over the years.

 

RE: Digital vs Analogue active crossovers? (Bryston, Krell, Pass..), posted on January 3, 2023 at 12:40:40
Davey
 Twice your XM-44 has failed????

Dave.

 

RE: Digital vs Analogue active crossovers? (Bryston, Krell, Pass..), posted on January 3, 2023 at 16:59:21
watts
Audiophile

Posts: 536
Location: B.C.
Joined: June 30, 2004
 In 2014 it was crackling upon powering up, and they replaced 4 relays. $40 in parts and $80 in labour.
In 2017 it wouldn't power up, and he found a break in the 15 VDC supply. $50. I wish he didn't retire.

Been good since.

 

Is it still under warranty ???, posted on January 3, 2023 at 19:45:51
emailtim
Audiophile

Posts: 5373
Joined: July 2, 2017
 I thought Brystons had a 20 year warranty.

"... but have you tried some of the better digital crossovers? ..."

What digital crossovers would those be ???
.

2022/03/30 Historical Records CENSORED

 

RE: Digital vs Analogue active crossovers? (Bryston, Krell, Pass..), posted on January 3, 2023 at 20:17:34
Davey
 I wasn't aware Phil had retired.

Regardless, there's nothing fancy in any of the Marchand electronic crossovers. Any of them can be fixed easily by a decent technician.

Dave.

 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods - Best I could do, posted on January 3, 2023 at 21:04:08
hahax@verizon.net
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Posts: 4305
Location: New Jersey
Joined: March 22, 2006
 Properly done an active crossover is superior to a passive one. It eliminates most of the reactance an amp sees in a passive crossover. But a generic crossover, no matter how good, is not really properly done. A good crossover, passive or active, must take into account the anomalies of the drivers and all drivers have them. A good crossover is an equalizer for those anomalies which means it must be designed for each speaker design. Look at many passive crossovers such as the classic 4th order linkwitz/Reilly designs. They often are just 3rd or even 2nd order electrically. So in a generic electronic crossover if you want say 4th order you select that(or have it designed that way) and you easily may not end up with a 4th order acoustically. And that doesn't even take into account the shape of the roll off which is critical and may easily not be nice ending up with crossover ringing.

 

not Phil , posted on January 4, 2023 at 05:31:24
watts
Audiophile

Posts: 536
Location: B.C.
Joined: June 30, 2004
 Sorry, I should have said more: I didn't mean Phil, I never sent it to Marchand for repair, just local electronics shops. The second fellow I found working out of a music supply store retired.

 

RE: Is it still under warranty ???, posted on January 4, 2023 at 17:38:52
Jon L
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Posts: 6061
Joined: April 6, 2000
 It actually is out of warranty, and repair costs quoted by Bryston are very high due to "very expensive switches" and the need to rebuild the whole unit. Repair/rebuild cost would be close to what a good used one goes for (well..when there is one on sale).

 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods, posted on January 7, 2023 at 06:28:16
watts
Audiophile

Posts: 536
Location: B.C.
Joined: June 30, 2004
 Everything is put together and is up and running, but my original amp (Nord NC500) still has a power supply out of commission, and simple C38 resistor didn't fix it, and the substitute VTV NC500 replacement I just bought (until I figure out whether to fix it again, or just buy a new SMPS1200) sounds different, so any comparison on the sound now vs. before is inconclusive as there is more than one variable that has been altered.

The output of the mid/treble region is definitely lower than the bass now, but I would surmise that is due to a different amp. With different output buffers, and different op amps (Sonic Imagery 994 vs. 990). The op amps shouldn't affect the volume, but some detail characteristics only. And I believe I read that one can customize output on this NC500 module? Perhaps this one was ordered with less gain. But in the back of my mind I am questioning whether these new components might have something to do with it? Really bad timing on my amps part.

So at the same volume level as before I have more bass, which I find a little overwhelming at times, yet nice on other tracks. Of course I can tame it with output levels on the Marchand XM44, or even in Roon's DSP, or with more effort by customizing with different slope modules on the XM44 but haven't done anything yet. Easiest to play around with my seating position.

First though I will plunk in my bass Nord NC500 on the high's, after putting in the Sonic Imagery op amps I had in the high's Nord, and put the VTV on the bass channels to have any chance to properly gauge the internal crossover changes.

This is a hobby, isn't it? :)

 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods, posted on January 7, 2023 at 13:31:11
Davey
 The differing NC500 input modules could easily be giving you different gain.

One of the reasons Hypex implemented these OEM modules in this way was so different end manufacturers could use differing circuitry to create audible differences with other manufacturers using the same Hypex base modules. :)

You could have other variables at work also.

Dave.

 

RE: You've already done the best thing you could do, IMO, by actively biamping. :), posted on January 13, 2023 at 19:41:01
ketchup
Audiophile

Posts: 621
Location: Pennsylvania
Joined: February 29, 2004
 If you wanted to closely match DCR values, is it as easy as measuring the factory coil resistance with a multimeter and buying new coils close to the measured resistance?

 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods, posted on February 18, 2023 at 04:10:34
watts
Audiophile

Posts: 536
Location: B.C.
Joined: June 30, 2004
 It is a simple jumper on the VTV buffer board that raises the output by 7db. The jumper was already contained inside the amplifier, so it was easy to plug it on and now all the gain knobs on the marchand are at zero again. :)

The next thing I may try is get those expensive Weiss op amps in the VTV.

https://vtvamplifier.com/product/weiss-op2-ba-discrete-opamp-module/

It will take 2 per channel, so $676. The Sonic Imagery 994 are what I have used for the whole time I have had NC500 amps, and only compared these to Sparkos 3602, and I prefer the more detailed SI's.

 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods, posted on February 18, 2023 at 05:11:47
watts
Audiophile

Posts: 536
Location: B.C.
Joined: June 30, 2004
 Just to close off this post, the crossover upgrades were well worth the cost. Exactly what I was searching for: more detail, more insight, more clarity, more resolution. But this comes at a cost, the speakers are less forgiving to less than perfect recordings, and it more readily reveals the weaker links in the system.

Steely Dan Aja sounds better, (and it never really sounds bad, on any system, even in the car, just less good) but some of those 80's recordings reveal the less than stellar cymbal sounds.

And with more music details also comes more grain. With what I had I it just sounded less smooth, at times. I wouldn't say fatiguing, I could still listen for hours and hours, but there must be something else I could do to remove a little grain/glare which I didn't really notice before. Okay, maybe I just wanted to talk myself into some new power cables ;), but I did upgrade just one of the 5 power cords and absolutely it was a positive change in the right direction, so I got a few more. Not doing a review here of the power cords I got, not going to give adjectives, but just like the crossover upgrades another piece of the puzzle now seems to have been fit. Now I can deal with that increased resolution, now have even more, and with less of the extra hash/grain/glare, whatever you want to call it. The other cabling I feel is of a high enough quality at the moment.

I would totally understand if others thought the system sounded too bright, too dry, or not warm enough. I don't have tubes, never have, and don't think that I like that sort of colour. I loved the sound of the Linn CD player I used to have, others preferred the Rega. I prefer the NC500 to the Mcintosh amps I had. To each their own. Having said that I won't rule out demoing some tube buffers that VTV offers, once I confirm how long they last.

But just to warn others who might take this path, be prepared to spend more on the system along with the crossover parts if your other pieces are not to task, or you may be disappointed. Like the guy who uses his maggies with a home theater receiver, and then replaces his lamp cord speaker wires with Nordost Blue Heaven's (for example) and hates it, says his lamp cords are better than Nordost, because now his resolving cables and speakers now reveal the limitations and poor 2 channel topology of the home theater receiver. (No, I have never owned any Nordost.)

Again, other capacitors should/might have changed the sound slightly, but I am sure not going to ever "cap" roll, much others things to try first. Like different op amps in the buffers in the VTV NC500, or a different set of XLR's between the Marchand and the VTV (which powers the bass panels). Oh, and I guess the modules in the XM44 are fine, because I have not even thought about changing them lately (280 Hz low pass 24db/octave LR, 200 Hz high pass 6db/octave first order, I think)

Maybe in another 10 years I will be done? :) Enjoying the journey though, that is what it is all about.

 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods, posted on February 19, 2023 at 18:24:15
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 I would rotate the inductors so the are NOT parallel and co-planar.

Turn 'em so they are as much at right angles to one another as feasible....
Too much is never enough

 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods, posted on February 19, 2023 at 18:25:24
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 higher bass output MIGHT be caused by Lower DCR in the inductor in the bass section......
That's gonna change the balance a little.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: 3.6R crossover mods, posted on February 20, 2023 at 05:41:19
watts
Audiophile

Posts: 536
Location: B.C.
Joined: June 30, 2004
 I'm aware, and I feel they are far apart enough to not have enough sonic detriment.

 

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