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what a difference a cable or two makes

68.8.28.120
Posted on December 5, 2020 at 21:03:15
Green Lantern
Audiophile

Posts: 16952
Location: San Diego, Ca
Joined: November 12, 2002
Contributor
  Since: June 17, 2003
 I decided to update some of my interconnects, speaker wires (mostly on USaudiomart)

adapters (RCA to XLR and spade to banana (both about $50 pair/Cardas on Amazon)these replaced some el'cheapos I had

I will get another set for the bass panels soon-



The results are superb -to say the least.

First noticeable improvement is a deep, black background (but just 'Earth black', not deep, 'outter-space black-hole' black, -well at least not yet!) and increased sound field (more spread out, center area now more presentable, more defined).

from Usaudiomart:

$300 (list >$1,000) Morrow Audio - SP-6 SE Loudspeaker cables with Neotech upgrades)
Cardas Hexlink Rca Interconnect 4 feet"

Cardas Cross 20" interconnects, RCA connectors

total cost: about $600 beans; faaaar less than a new preamp.











 

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RE: what a difference a cable or two makes, posted on December 6, 2020 at 10:15:27
Utley1
Audiophile

Posts: 1609
Location: NYC
Joined: July 30, 2010
 Hi Greenie: Can you tell me where did you place the XLR OUTPUTS OR IMPUTS?
AMP OR PREAMP OR BOTH? OR DID YOU MODIFY THE MAG SPEAKER CONNECTIONS?
THANKS!
UT

 

RE: what a difference a cable or two makes, posted on December 6, 2020 at 16:20:48
Green Lantern
Audiophile

Posts: 16952
Location: San Diego, Ca
Joined: November 12, 2002
Contributor
  Since: June 17, 2003
 ran them into the amp, did not alter the Maggies.









 

Curious - Why the lugs and plugs?, posted on December 7, 2020 at 11:30:07
G Squared
Audiophile

Posts: 8478
Location: Washington, DC Metro Area
Joined: November 16, 2004
Contributor
  Since: May 23, 2023
 Is it to change amps easily?
Gsquared

 

RE: what a difference a cable or two makes, posted on December 7, 2020 at 16:50:26
timm
Audiophile

Posts: 780
Location: Ann Arbor Mi
Joined: January 15, 2008
 Green L.

Do you like the spades on the Maggie vs just straight in bananas ?

 

RE: what a difference a cable or two makes, posted on December 7, 2020 at 17:04:53
FX35
Audiophile

Posts: 151
Joined: March 6, 2020
 Most underrated and over looked section of a high-end set......... cables. People spend thousands on pre's + sources and think that a couple hundred of buck's for a cable is sufficient, keep swapping components in search of the "holy grail" while the cable loom remains under par. Cables must be treated the same as a major component.

Adapters are a BIG no no, so much extra resistance. Gains made by upgraded cables go down the drain with the use of adapters, change the plugs to avoid adapters, better still, upgrade the stock connectors and loose the fuses as well.

 

RE: Curious - Why the lugs and plugs?, posted on December 7, 2020 at 17:39:50
Green Lantern
Audiophile

Posts: 16952
Location: San Diego, Ca
Joined: November 12, 2002
Contributor
  Since: June 17, 2003
 The maggies are set up for banana post only, my speaker wires are spades.









 

RE: what a difference a cable or two makes, posted on December 7, 2020 at 17:42:00
Green Lantern
Audiophile

Posts: 16952
Location: San Diego, Ca
Joined: November 12, 2002
Contributor
  Since: June 17, 2003
 the cables I'm using are spaded, if they were banana'd I wouldn't need the adapter.









 

RE: what a difference a cable or two makes, posted on December 8, 2020 at 14:50:48
Davey
 Total nonsense.

Cables are not a major component. In fact, they are the least important (relatively speaking) aspect of your system. Waaaaaaaaay behind speakers, amplifiers, etc, etc.

Dave.

 

RE: what a difference a cable or two makes, posted on December 8, 2020 at 16:25:35
FX35
Audiophile

Posts: 151
Joined: March 6, 2020
"Cables are not a major component. In fact, they are the least important (relatively speaking) aspect of your system"

Actually, the majority of the High-End community would agree with you............ back in the 70's and 80's.
Things have moved on since then, except for you, obviously.

 

RE: what a difference a cable or two makes, posted on December 8, 2020 at 23:03:57
InfinityApogee
Audiophile

Posts: 237
Location: Sk
Joined: February 14, 2014
 I sometimes wonder about the cable aspect of things, open up you amp and preamps and other sorces and look whats in them for wire. most cables are altered if some fashion or another just to make them sound different, but the price of the raw material costs are not much more. Just my thoughts :)

 

RE: what a difference a cable or two makes, posted on December 9, 2020 at 02:00:07
SteveJewels
Audiophile

Posts: 244
Location: OH
Joined: August 11, 2018
 "Adapters are a BIG no no, so much extra resistance."


How much resistance?

 

RE: what a difference a cable or two makes, posted on December 9, 2020 at 07:17:34
FX35
Audiophile

Posts: 151
Joined: March 6, 2020
 Just curious,

"open up you amp and preamps and other sorces and look whats in them for wire."

And then? what's your point?


"most cables are altered if some fashion or another just to make them sound different",

Really? and you base this "fact" on.....?


" but the price of the raw material costs are not much more."

Not much more than what?

 

RE: what a difference a cable or two makes, posted on December 9, 2020 at 08:01:42
FX35
Audiophile

Posts: 151
Joined: March 6, 2020
 "How much resistance?"

Do you mean exact measurements? that will depend on the situation, each time a signals path is altered there is a form of resistance(deterioration). think of fuses, fuse holders, resistors, adapters, connectors e.t.c...... is it audible? yes..... no.....sometimes, is it measurable? always.

One of the biggest challenges for high-end cable manufacturers lately is not how they can improve signal transmission through cable development but how to reduce signal deterioration when assembling plugs, resulting in manufacturers designing plugs from scratch combined with unique crimping methods. This includes power cords as well.

From a purist view, I would always remove as much resistance as possible, audible or not. My personal experience is that the use of adapters creates serious signal deterioration, more so on IC's than SPC's.

 

or look at the cables, wires and connectors used to get mains power to your house. nt, posted on December 9, 2020 at 08:20:30
G Squared
Audiophile

Posts: 8478
Location: Washington, DC Metro Area
Joined: November 16, 2004
Contributor
  Since: May 23, 2023
 .
Gsquared

 

Thin is In, posted on January 4, 2021 at 18:04:14
Desafinado
Audiophile

Posts: 183
Location: Alberta
Joined: March 10, 2013



After auditioning several brands of speaker wire, my current favourite looks positively anorexic
compared to the garden hoses previously demo'd.

It is also interesting to watch the reactions of visitors as they see the door-sized 20.7s connected
to a speaker cable with a 1.7mm diameter.

 

RE: Thin is In, posted on January 5, 2021 at 08:21:53
skypop
Audiophile

Posts: 297
Location: Long Island
Joined: January 7, 2008
 Which cables are those?

 

RE: Thin is In, posted on January 5, 2021 at 09:21:25
Desafinado
Audiophile

Posts: 183
Location: Alberta
Joined: March 10, 2013
 They are Crystal Cable Piccolo Diamond. What they lack in bulk is compensated for by using
silver annealed with gold wire wrapped in Kapton.

They beat out competitors from Cardas, StraightWire, Audioquest, and WireWorld in my system.
Sweet, pure, and extended highs could not be matched. Honourable mention goes to Cardas Clear
Reflection which had an incredibly pure and smooth midrange but seemed a bit rolled-off for
HF extension.

 

RE: Thin is In, posted on January 6, 2021 at 04:30:50
FX35
Audiophile

Posts: 151
Joined: March 6, 2020
 Nice to see someone trying to obtain full potential from their system by investigating what improvements a half decent cable can bring, instead of just constantly swapping components.

Ironically though, you are just dipping your toes, the Picollo Diamond is their entry- level cable in the gold/silver fusions, with 6 more levels to climb. It's actually a Siltech cable(gold/silver fusions), Edwin van der Kley saw a hole in the market for thin cables, as opposed to the thick Siltech's, and started a sister company, named it Crystal cable(renamed Crystal Connect) and let his wife run it.

You are selling yourself short the way you have it connected, you should have the Crystals in a bi-wire configuration, lose the jumpers and just use the 4 connectors below, too much resistance and a loss of signal quality the way it is now. Better still, dump those chunky metal connectors, fuses + fuse holders as well (but thats a different story).

 

RE: Thin is In, posted on January 6, 2021 at 08:03:12
Desafinado
Audiophile

Posts: 183
Location: Alberta
Joined: March 10, 2013
 Yes, Edwin and Gaby do offer many upgrade possibilities within their respective companies.
My dealer has a demo pair of the Reference Diamond - 3 steps up if you include the discontinued
Standard Diamond- but even a smoking deal on a $ 7500 wire was over my budget.

My T-IVa are set up for bi-wiring but I'm not sure how the MG 20.7s could be bi-wired and still kept stock for resale purposes.
I have to keep my dream of owning 30.7s alive. LOL

 

RE: Thin is In, posted on January 7, 2021 at 03:26:29
FX35
Audiophile

Posts: 151
Joined: March 6, 2020
 Oops, my mistake, I thought the terminals were like the 1.6's, but those are attenuator connectors and not bi-wire jumper connectors, I should have seen that the way the jumpers are connected, old age is creeping up on me............


 

RE: Thin is In, posted on May 25, 2021 at 21:37:26
Desafinado
Audiophile

Posts: 183
Location: Alberta
Joined: March 10, 2013




As per Jan 5, 2021 thread:
They are Crystal Cable Piccolo Diamond. What they lack in bulk is compensated for by using
silver annealed with gold wire wrapped in Kapton.
They beat out competitors from Cardas, StraightWire, Audioquest, and WireWorld in my system.
Sweet, pure, and extended highs could not be matched. Honourable mention goes to Cardas Clear
Reflection which had an incredibly pure and smooth midrange but seemed a bit rolled-off for
HF extension.

 

come on man, posted on May 26, 2021 at 13:22:55
farfetched
Audiophile

Posts: 957
Location: Cleveland!
Joined: October 13, 2010
 At the very least we get some solid data points on the very real degrees of flat out noise that persists in otherwise excellent conductors of information. There simply is no such thing as a perfect conductor of information, period. So these discussions are going to happen, is what I'm saying.


Hmmm.



/ optimally proportioned triangles are our friends


 

RE: what a difference a cable or two makes, posted on May 30, 2021 at 08:52:35
Mark Man
Audiophile

Posts: 1079
Location: MN
Joined: January 31, 2010



I was looking on Craig's List, found an estate sale that had some Audio components and cables. Went and checked it out, most of gear was gone.

But they had a bunch of cables; XLO, Audio Arts, Wireworld, and a Wywires.

The Wywires Diamond XLR, 32 inch length. Did a quick search and saw this cable MSRP was around $4K. It was by far the best "looking" out of the bunch. They had a price if $200 on it and talked them down to $150.

This cable was the equivalent of a new upgraded component. The cable runs from DAC, (Schiit Yggy), to my Simaudio integrated.

I did not know, my system was capable of such detail, 3D images and the blackness surrounding each image locating them in the soundstage.

They replaced top of the line Zu Events.

Wywires has a 10 year anniversary special, they are selling with a 40% off MSRP. I bought their Diamond SPDif digital cable, that they increased the price by $400, shortly after I bought mine. Also bought their 2 of their power cords. Platinum Juice II High Current and Digital.

All have been upgrades to the SQ. Not to the extent that the Diamond XLR, but real synergy upgrading my loom.

 

RE: To confirm what FX35 said ..., posted on June 1, 2021 at 04:28:37
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12548
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 MG 20.7s can not be bi-wired and still kept stock for resale purposes.

Andy

 

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