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Least amount of power in to Magnepans

65.154.181.90
Posted on August 5, 2020 at 10:58:03
LineSource
Audiophile

Posts: 145
Location: Iowa
Joined: July 29, 2014
 Just a curiosity exercise here. What's the smallest amount of power, solid state or tubes anyone is using in to their Magnepans? I know they all like power but is anyone getting good results with less than say...100 watts per channel?
LineSource

 

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RE: Least amount of power in to Magnepans, posted on August 5, 2020 at 11:55:15
mgv
Audiophile

Posts: 15
Location: South Carolina
Joined: May 4, 2004
 I have used a NAD 3130 since 2003 on my MMGs and recently switched to a Denon PMA-600NE. Both of these amplifiers are rated at at 70W per channel on 4 Ohm. The NAD 3130 is rated at 30W per channel on 8 Ohm, the Denon at 40W per channel on 8 Ohm. (The way the power rating is computed for the two amplifiers at the different impedances is likely different.) I have never felt the need for more power with either amplifier. It is clear that power ratings do not tell the whole story. I have used a PIoneer Elite A35 while my NAD was being cleaned up several years ago, and despite the similar power ratings, the Pioneer could not drive the MMG well. The Magneplanar website has some discussion of power needs in the FAQs and mentions NAD by name. See https://www.magnepan.com/faq. It is not surprising, therefore, that the NAD 3130 works well with the MMG. I am happy to report that so does the Denon PMA-600NE.

 

You're dead on the money!, posted on August 5, 2020 at 13:55:15
David S.
Audiophile

Posts: 3552
Location: Mountains of WNC
Joined: August 31, 2000
 When I had Maggies, they were some form of SMGs (still don't know exactly what they were, because they weren't rectangular, but rather slightly trapezoidal (a bit wider at the base than at the top).

They were quite happy with 50wpc, when I had them hooked to a Proton D950 for a bit. They were wonderful, when I had an NAD 2200 as amp driving them. They came a bit more alive when I had an Adcom GFA-555II powering them.

At one point? The tweeter wires gave up the ghost, and the woofer wires were getting floppy & pealing off. Got the refurb wire & glue kit from Magnepan, and put them right. Sold them off not long after, and the buyer was VERY happy with the sound.

 

RE: You're dead on the money!, posted on August 5, 2020 at 14:07:12
LineSource
Audiophile

Posts: 145
Location: Iowa
Joined: July 29, 2014
 I don't remember Magnepan ever making anything other than equal sided rectangle speakers. I had sMGb's that I used for probably twenty years driven by an Adcom GFA 535 rated at 60 watts. The dealer I bought it from tested all the gear going out the door though and never had one test below 90 watts before clipping. I was able to light up the distortion LEDs without much effort though.
LineSource

 

audiolab 8000a, posted on August 5, 2020 at 16:23:39
farfetched
Audiophile

Posts: 957
Location: Cleveland!
Joined: October 13, 2010
 that's I think 55 watts. I have to point a fan at it to dissipate heat if I want to crank it. Let's just say, I am waiting to satisfy my urge to listen to Van Halen at EVH levels for when I get my vk-500 repaired.

Most listening is much more modest in level, which my neighbors are exceedingly grateful for. And, my ears I am sure. But at modest levels? The audiolab is fine and dandy to my ears. It's a nice little amp, and it can make your feet tap for sure!

(That's into mg12's, soon to be replaced with .... lsr's...)


/ optimally proportioned triangles are our friends


 

room size, posted on August 5, 2020 at 17:23:15
Green Lantern
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Contributor
  Since: June 17, 2003
 If I were limited to a small room 12x12 or less, I could totally see using a 60watt'er along with a modest sub on a non-true ribbon Maggie.









 

It's not the watts, it's current...., posted on August 5, 2020 at 18:29:02
Rod M
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  Since: March 1, 1999
 And it takes a great amp to deliver it into tough loads. My old DR-9 is rated at 400 watts into 2 ohms, but it's build like an arc welder. I totally agree with mgv on amps. A typical 100 watt amp might only produce 150 or so at 4 ohms and isn't happy at all below that.

Of course, specs lie. My DR-9 was rated at 100 watts, but was said to measure more like 150 watts. No one said differently on their 2 ohm spec.



-Rod

 

3.7s driven by a 100wpc SS amp, posted on August 5, 2020 at 18:53:37
wazoo
Audiophile

Posts: 4062
Location: Middle GA
Joined: December 6, 2006
 Some years ago, I moved my 3.7s into a ~220sq' bedroom and drove them with my Marantz PM-11S1 integrated that's rated at 100wpc into 8 ohms, but it does double into 4 ohms. I was shocked at the terrific bass the 3.7s produced in that room - no need for a sub.

When I emptied my equipment rack for a good cleaning last week, I decided to install a stripped down, 2-channel system centered around that integrated amp in my ~600sq' room. The 3.7s sound wonderful and I can play the system as loudly as I care to these days with absolutely no sign of strain from the amp.

 

RE: It's not the watts, it's current...., posted on August 5, 2020 at 19:01:51
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17294
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 'It's not the watts, it's current...."

Pardon me but you can not separate the two. Watts is current times voltage.

Current is voltage divided resistance (impedance, in this case).

If an amplifier can not deliver the voltage into a lower impedance that will be evident by lower watts available at that lower impedance.


Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: 3.7s driven by a 100wpc SS amp, posted on August 5, 2020 at 19:03:53
LineSource
Audiophile

Posts: 145
Location: Iowa
Joined: July 29, 2014
 This might sound crazy but I wonder if your head could have been acting as a bass traps in your bedroom. A large, heavy, absorbent material suspended 8 to 12 inches off the floor. Hmmm
LineSource

 

Well..., posted on August 5, 2020 at 19:21:58
wazoo
Audiophile

Posts: 4062
Location: Middle GA
Joined: December 6, 2006
 The big room has 14 ASC bass traps. The stripped down system has 3 subs - a pair of 14" with 3 radiators each and a 10" sealed. That's what it takes to get fantastic bass in the larger room, even though it was a scratch build and I selected dimensions that modeled good bass behavior.

The beefiest amp I've used with the 3.7s in this room was a Pass X350. I've also had a 150wpc valve amp and a couple other SS amps. The old Marantz integrated may buck conventional wisdom for Maggies, but I'm really digging the current configuration.

 

head or bed?, posted on August 6, 2020 at 07:55:31
M3 lover
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 If the head was an effective bass trap then most of us could benefit. ;^)

But I've read a few posts on AA that made me wonder if the person was empty-headed.

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

 

RE: It's not the watts, it's current...., posted on August 6, 2020 at 09:08:36
Rod M
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 I understand the math and in a perfect world, yes, an amp should double the power or watts in going from an 8 ohm to a 4 ohm load and double again into 2 ohms.

For example, the specs for a Yamaha A-S801 reads like this:

Watts RMS per Channel (8-ohms) 100
Watts RMS per Channel (6-ohms) 120
Watts RMS per Channel (4-ohms) Not given

So, how do you explain the fact that many amps can not handle lower impedance loads?


-Rod

 

RE: Least amount of power in to Magnepans, posted on August 6, 2020 at 09:10:30
Joe Schmo
Audiophile

Posts: 518
Location: Palm Beach
Joined: April 21, 2008
 After many years of taking a break from audiophile grade equipment and just using mass market gear, I purchased my Magnepan 1.6s in 2002. I used a mass market 35 wpc Kenwood receiver to drive them at first and it was awful. I did this knowing it was temporary. The receiver didn't sound all that bad driving a set of Infinity bookshelf speakers, but the Maggies strangled it. A friend had an Arcam A85 integrated amp he was selling (85wpc) so I bought it. It was a huge improvement and I figured that was going to do it for awhile ...., that is until that same friend brought by his Krell FBP-200 (200wpc and doubling in power down to 2 ohms) for the afternoon. Wow! That amp never left and it's still here! I know none of these are apples to apples comparisons, but the obvious difference in the growling foundation of the bottom end and forceful, dynamic slam that became more apparent from each larger successive amp tested in my system I would attribute mostly to the ability of each of the respective larger amps to deliver sheer undistorted power.
-Joe

They're not that big!

 

RE: It's not the watts, it's current...., posted on August 6, 2020 at 09:36:28
Davey
 You're not addressing Tre's point.

You said "it's not the watts......"
Yet, in your real-world example, you're clearly showing it IS the watts (de-rating.)

If power amplifier current capability de-rates at lower impedance loads then, by definition, so does the wattage capability.

Dave.

 

No bi-amping or bi-wiring on the Magnepan 1.7i., posted on August 6, 2020 at 11:36:53
LineSource
Audiophile

Posts: 145
Location: Iowa
Joined: July 29, 2014
 BED, I meant BED!
LineSource

 

RE: No bi-amping or bi-wiring on the Magnepan 1.7i., posted on August 6, 2020 at 12:37:38
wazoo
Audiophile

Posts: 4062
Location: Middle GA
Joined: December 6, 2006
 I wondered about that comment - no bed in that room when the 3.7s were in it. It was my daughter's girlcave. I think the bass was so solid simply because the smaller space was easier to load. When I auditioned the 30.7s, they were in a massive space and the bass was anything but impressive.

 

Classe DR-3, posted on August 6, 2020 at 16:56:35
DustyC
Audiophile

Posts: 963
Joined: November 4, 2000
 25 watts into 8 ohms 50 into 4. More than enough 90% of the time.
The other 10%? Monoblocked a pair of 'em.

 

RE: It's not the watts, it's current...., posted on August 6, 2020 at 17:39:37
Rod M
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 Yes, and that was my point entirely. All 100 watt amps are not equal. Having to de-rate their amp points toward a lesser power supply that can't handle difficult loads.

-Rod

 

RE: Classe DR-3, posted on August 6, 2020 at 18:32:59
LineSource
Audiophile

Posts: 145
Location: Iowa
Joined: July 29, 2014
 What I'm getting here is that people are happiest using amps that double in power from 8 to 4 ohms. That indicates amps with lots of currant, low power or high. I pretty much already knew that but it's interesting to hear people's personal experiences.
LineSource

 

RE: "I was shocked at the terrific bass the 3.7s produced in that room - no need for a sub" ..., posted on August 7, 2020 at 04:00:22
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12548
Location: Melbourne
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 You obviously listen to different music to me! :-))

I introduced a pair of subs into my music system about 4 years ago - and was shocked by the amount of bass I had been missing out on for 20 years, with my Maggies.

Andy

 

RE: When I heard some 30.7s ..., posted on August 7, 2020 at 04:01:46
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12548
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 driven by a MacIntosh amp - they were sensational.

Andy

 

RE: It's not the watts, it's current...., posted on August 7, 2020 at 04:45:15
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 10426
Location: NJ
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 many amps were not designed to double the power at a load as low as 4 (or again at 2) in reference to a stated distortion level.

The doubling of power is a cost consideration as the power supply etc for doubling adds extra $$$.







 

RE: It's not the watts, it's current...., posted on August 7, 2020 at 09:18:34
Roger Gustavsson
Audiophile

Posts: 2054
Location: Huskvarna
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 I have used my 3.6 with a 2x45 W (4 Ohm) receiver. Room is 21 m2. It is a surprise how little power that goes inte them with todays loudnessraced music. Very good recordings with good dynamics is a different story. So far, I have never clipped the 4x180 W (4 Ohm) power amps I use today. Active drive increases the effiency by about 1.5 dB for the basses.

 

sensational, they are, posted on August 7, 2020 at 09:40:47
wazoo
Audiophile

Posts: 4062
Location: Middle GA
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 The midrange I heard at that demo was outstanding and we already know what those wonderful ribbons produce. Standing right next to the 30.7s, I could hear really good bass, but not by the time I was 10-15' away. In fairness to the 30.7s, the room was several times the size of a typical listening room in which they would be used.

 

okay, I should clarify, posted on August 7, 2020 at 09:50:45
wazoo
Audiophile

Posts: 4062
Location: Middle GA
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 I don't imagine many of the members here to listen to the music to which I listen the most - my favorite album from this year (so far) has to be Myrkur's 'Folkesange'. Below is a link to the first track off that album - been waiting years for Amalie to release a complete album like this (rather than the metal stuff with the occasional track like this).

That was in the house where the kind of bass I get in the room over the garage would cause complaints. The bass was, however, quite surprising for Magnepans - substantial by comparison to what they produce in the big room. I have run as many as seven subs in the big room, but I currently only have three, although since I added the Bryston 10B crossover to the stripped down (now expanding ;-) system so that I could get the tactile device in my chair operating again (used judiciously, it's as useful for music as it is for HT), I may add a couple subs to the back of the room.

Maggies are terrific speakers, but they're not that productive at the grunt work. In that small bedroom, however, the 3.7s did flesh out frequencies I hadn't heard from them in the big room, but I still wouldn't call it palpable - shocking in comparison to what I thought they could produce and satisfactory for the environment.

 

Apogee?, posted on August 7, 2020 at 10:07:26
grantv
Manufacturer

Posts: 7724
Location: B.C.
Joined: January 15, 2002
 I don't recall a Magnepan that wasn't rectangular. Are you sure it wasn't perhaps Apogee speakers?

 

You mean least amout at 4 ohms? All Magnapans nominal impedence is 4 ohms. (nt), posted on August 7, 2020 at 11:58:40
Jonesy
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  Since: March 1, 2018
 nt


"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."




 

If this is the crux of your question, then it should be in multiple parts., posted on August 9, 2020 at 12:57:55
Audiophilander
Audiophile

Posts: 30200
Location: Fort Worth (D/FW Metroplex)
Joined: March 31, 2000
 You should be asking more follow-up questions. For instance, your asking about least amount of power, but for which size Magnepan? What size room are we discussing? Also, the types of music you favor may influence the choice of amplification.

Then there are design considerations for whatever amplifier you pair with your Maggies. What is the topology of the amp(s)? Stereo or monoblock configuration? Is/are your amp(s) stable with 4 Ohm loads and lower?

The one fact we know is that Maggies love lots of power in reserve to draw on. There's such a thing as too much at least in theory, perhaps a better description would be overkill, but common sense logic should determine which power amplification topology to acquire.

Personally, I'd never look for the least amount of amplification advisable for any Magneplanar as that does a disservice to the concept of a performance speaker system, not to mention your own listening pleasure.

Is there such a thing as too much? Maggies can drink heavily, but everything is relative. For instance, I have a Sanders Magtech for my 3.7i Maggies which are set up in a very large vaulted listening room. This amp is spec'd at 900 WPC into 4 Ohms, which is ample power for my Maggies in my listening room. But it would probably be overkill for smaller Maggies especially in instances where speakers are set-up in a smaller listening area.

Arbitrarily, I'd think 150 to 200 WPC into a 4 Ohm load would be ideally suited for the smallest Maggie designs in a cozy listening room. My inclination would be to double that for the 1.7 series and so on (I'd probably look at Sanders Magtech monoblocks for the 20 or 30 series speakers). This amplification is Class A/B topology.

Class D and tube amplification can also find harmony with Maggies and, dependent upon music preferences and the execution of the design topology, may provide more options with less power consumption.

Finally, everything stated above comes with the caveat that mileage will vary. Whatever works best for me might not work at all for you. All I'm saying is that there are more consideration than just how much amplification is suitable for driving Maggies. That said, they're by no means minimalist speakers; that goes for the power that drives them as well.

Cheers,
AuPh

 

It ain't the power it's the current. , posted on August 9, 2020 at 14:55:41
ph5y
Audiophile

Posts: 178
Location: DC
Joined: October 30, 2010
 You need power as measured at 4 ohms and BELOW.
As to how much, about 4 times what you would want for a bookshelf speaker.
Mags are in the low 80s in dbw.
It's never too late to turn back the clock.

 

RE: If this is the crux of your question, then it should be in multiple parts., posted on August 9, 2020 at 14:58:00
LineSource
Audiophile

Posts: 145
Location: Iowa
Joined: July 29, 2014
 Well as I said in my original post, this is just a curiosity exercise. I know Magnepans in general like power, actually I believe it's currant they crave, but I'm simply curious as to how little power, or currant people have had success with in there given circumstances.
LineSource

 

Here is a SPL calculator to give you a rough idea., posted on August 9, 2020 at 23:00:20
emailtim
Audiophile

Posts: 5395
Joined: July 2, 2017
 Here is a SPL calculator to give you a rough idea. It doesn't take into account OB/Dipole line arrays.

84dB Sensitivity
Away from walls and corners
10 foot to listener
2 speakers

Doubling watt progression yields 3dB gains.

1.25 watts -> 78.3dB
2.5 watts -> 81.3dB
5 watts -> 84.3dB
10 watts -> 87.3dB
20 watts -> 90.3dB
40 watts -> 93.3dB
80 watts -> 96.4dB
160 watts -> 99.4dB
320 watts -> 102.4dB
640 watts -> 105.4dB
1280 watts -> 108.4dB


.

2022/03/30 Historical Records CENSORED

 

RE: If this is the crux of your question, then it should be in multiple parts., posted on August 9, 2020 at 23:37:15
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 At one point? Magnepan had a 35x2 system in the buildings entry......

I've run 80x2 from a Kenwood Integrated amp into MG-1

More recently, with MG1.6qr, i lowered my power from 500 per speaker of ICE amp (ASP250) to a pair of A/B parasound of 200x2 with one stereo amp behind each panel. And the lower power is more satisfying and I think would play as loud or louder.....I'd judge there too be more 'slam', too....
Too much is never enough

 

The Adcom Amps Were/Are Great..., posted on August 10, 2020 at 09:06:16
Jonesy
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Contributor
  Since: March 1, 2018
 Built to drive low impedence loads. The 535 would do 60 watts into 8 ohms and 100 watts into 4 ohms. They would even go as low as 2 ohms.

I don't know how much current the 535 put out, but it's larger brother, the 555 could crank out 20 amps.

Cheers!

Jonesy


"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."




 

RE: The Adcom Amps Were/Are Great..., posted on August 10, 2020 at 10:38:25
Roger Gustavsson
Audiophile

Posts: 2054
Location: Huskvarna
Joined: February 12, 2010
 As Magnepan speakers are close to resistive loads, current will not be much of an issue. !00 W in 4 Ohm will be 5 Amperes.

 

I don't understand why current is not the issue?, posted on August 10, 2020 at 11:09:03
Jonesy
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Posts: 3156
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Joined: September 1, 2005
Contributor
  Since: March 1, 2018
 Did you mean not the "main" issue?

Cheers!

Jonesy

From Magneplanars Site...

"What is the best amplifier for Magneplanars?

We have a very small staff and none of us have the time to test amplifiers. But, we have decades of experience with a class of amplifiers that work well with Magneplanars.

The short answer is direct-coupled, Class A/B designs with high current capability. But to learn more, you'll need to read further..."

(see link at very bottom)


"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."




 

RE: I don't understand why current is not the issue?, posted on August 10, 2020 at 11:50:29
Roger Gustavsson
Audiophile

Posts: 2054
Location: Huskvarna
Joined: February 12, 2010
 Ohm's Law. If the load is almost resistive, your speakers will not draw a lot of current if they are 4-5 Ohm (like most Magnepans). 400 W in 4 Ohm is 10 Ampere, still not very much.

 

RE: I don't understand why current is not the issue?, posted on August 10, 2020 at 12:37:44
Jonesy
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  Since: March 1, 2018
 Ah. OK. I thought drawing 5-10 amps would be considered a high amount. And not typical of regular consumer components.

Cheers!

Jonesy


"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."




 

Good points even if the goal is unclear., posted on August 10, 2020 at 13:53:41
Audiophilander
Audiophile

Posts: 30200
Location: Fort Worth (D/FW Metroplex)
Joined: March 31, 2000
 I get it, you're approaching this strictly from a theoretical standpoint, without focusing on any particular model of Magneplanar. It's an interesting exercise, but complicated by the fact that each series of Maggie places different power demands. In your first post you only sought lowest amp power used with Maggies without requesting other crucial data that would need to be weighed.

For instance, over the years, I've experimented with both tube and solid state pre-amps and amps, each having a different sound signature in use. Power ...or rather how much current is available... is only one factor in assessing the performance of a Maggie based system.

The problem trying to isolate the criteria you seek and provide useful info is that everything still hinges on which speaker system is owned, the general set-up (supporting gear) and configuration of the listening room. Bigger Maggies usually need more power to provide the best listening experience. My 3.7i Maggies sounded best with substantial current available.

Prior to the Sanders Magtech I'd used a much lower wattage amp ...the Quad 909... that produced 250 WPC with a 4 Ohm load, but became very warm at the listening levels I preferred.. The Quad is a superb amp, but is now in my upstairs Gallo Reference system which is much less sensitive and doesn't heat up nearly as much. Note: For awhile I toyed with using my back-up Transcendent 150 tube amps, but felt their 100 WPC rating might not be enough to drive Maggies lower efficiency.

While awaiting thermal transistor replacements on my Magtech I also experimented with a pair of Class D monoblocks from Wyred4Sound, but they were actually powerhouse amps with slightly more WPC than the Magtech, so this wouldn't apply to a discussion of low powered amps and Maggies.

For the purposes of discussion I'm persuaded that nearly everything boils down to listening preferences, speaker size and room size. In theory, almost any amp could be used with Maggies as long as the current delivered is stable at 4 Ohms. The sound pressure levels, inner detail resolution and refinement is where the added current makes the most appreciable difference.

To reiterate, I totally get where you're coming from on low powered amps mated with Maggies, but I'm persuaded that meaningful data will require all of the other parameters mentioned as well.

Cheers,
AuPh

 

RE: It's not the watts, it's current...., posted on August 10, 2020 at 17:27:34
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17294
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 "All 100 watt amps are not equal."

You can say that again, and in many different ways.

A lot of SS amplifiers have lower distortion at 2 watts vs. .2 watts. The problem with that is, with most speakers, we listen to .2 watts a lot more of the time vs. 2 watts.

To your point, an amplifier that can not double it's output watts each time the load impedance is halved is showing a lack of current delivery ability.

I would have said it like this, 'It's not the rated watts into 8 ohms that matters so much when we are talking about driving speakers that have an impedance curve that dips well below 8 ohms, it's the wattage rating of the amplifier when driving those lower impedances vs. the wattage rating into 8 ohms'

That says what you were trying to say without making it sound like 'watts and current' can be separated.

Tre'


Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

Thanks Tre...., posted on August 10, 2020 at 17:50:43
Rod M
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Contributor
  Since: March 1, 1999
 I tend to over simplify.

What would you call an amp that can double down to 2 ohms, a high current amp?

-Rod

 

RE: Thanks Tre...., posted on August 11, 2020 at 08:36:55
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17294
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 An amplifier with a really good power supply and plenty of heat sink.

Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: Good points even if the goal is unclear., posted on August 11, 2020 at 10:18:17
LineSource
Audiophile

Posts: 145
Location: Iowa
Joined: July 29, 2014
 Okay, I guess I do have a goal here, it's just that I won't be acting on it until I feel confident my job will still be here after this virus has run it's course. I have Magnepan 1.7is that are in a room that a lot of people would say is way to small. It's 10x13 but I've treated it with absorption and bass traps. Before the bass traps this wouldn't support bass lower than 80 Hz, maybe higher. It was a very satisfying experience, building the traps with Rockwool and 1x4s, installing them and hearing the results. The 1.7s actually have a bump up at 40hz instead of rolling off above that. I'm driving them with an Emotiva XPA-2 Gen2 which is plenty of power, especially in this room. I would like to get amplification that's more refined and I have my eye on a couple of Vincent Audio products which are tube hybrids. Their SP332 which is a stereo amp that's 150W into 8ohms and 250 in to 4. So it produces less power but has 80,000uf of capacitance. The other option I'm looking at is their SP T700 mono blocks that are 150 into 8 and 300 into 4. I can't find any info on how much capacitance those have. I saw a review on Amazon by a guy who has 3.7s who went from the same Emotiva I have, to the Vincent SP332 and claims it drives them with no problems and he likes the sound he's getting from it more than the Emotiva. So there you have it.
LineSource

 

Thanks! This provides a lot of brainstorming info., posted on August 11, 2020 at 12:21:11
Audiophilander
Audiophile

Posts: 30200
Location: Fort Worth (D/FW Metroplex)
Joined: March 31, 2000
 Tubes tend to provide a different sound signature than solid state amps, but the differences are nuanced. It should be easier to drive Maggies with lower powered tubes or tube hybrid than low power solid state as tubes tend to clip (distort) softer than solid state amps.

Although not personally familiar with the Vincent gear you've mentioned, I've read a lot of positive testimonials. Look forward to reading more on how your system develops and will post further thoughts based on my experiences with 3.7i Maggies if useful. I'm sure others here will have constructive ideas on your set-up and goals.

Cheers,
AuPh

 

No bi-amping or bi-wiring on the Magnepan 1.7i., posted on August 11, 2020 at 15:26:38
LineSource
Audiophile

Posts: 145
Location: Iowa
Joined: July 29, 2014
 I've been at this hobby for thirty some years and recently discovered that I've been bull headedly wrong about speaker cables. I was of the opinion that the most important consideration was using the largest gauge cables and you're done. No hocus pocus needed just good solid physics! Well I had been using Media Bridge 12 AWG from Amazon thinking all the boxes checked. I had switched over to them from Mogami cables that were constructed as a biwire cable because the 1.7s can't be biwired. Then I read an old review by someone who wires all his speakers with a biwire stet spliced together into single tap speakers. Since I already had the Mogamis I decided to give this a try just to see if I could hear anything. Well I did hear something and liked it so I thought maybe there's something to this and ordered a set of Audioquest Type 8 cables from Audio Advisor. I was shocked! Clearer more extended highs and I can now turn my subwoofers off for most of the music I listen to. You'd have to be very hard of hearing to not hear the difference. Anyway, I'm glad I did this experiment and humble enough to admit I've been wrong for years. It could have something to do with how revealing Magnepans are to anything in front of them. Now I guess I'll have to start auditioning interconnects! FYI, I'm 62 years old and can hear the difference. This combined with the Mye Stands I recently purchased has been quite a revelation that.
LineSource

 

RE: No bi-amping or bi-wiring on the Magnepan 1.7i., posted on August 12, 2020 at 16:59:53
FX35
Audiophile

Posts: 151
Joined: March 6, 2020
 Wow!, thirty years in audio and you just found out cables DO make a difference? well, better late than never. And for what it's worth, AudioQuest Type 8 cables still do no justice to your set, people have no idea what a carefully balanced cable loom can do for a system.

Iv'e heard Vincent's driving 20's(more than once), not bad, but not great. You say you want more refinement? in a room that size you can do way better than Vincent's, always choose mono's over a stereo amp and look for full class A's, something around 60W. Like I used to ask my client's....... do you want quality of music, or quantity of sound?

 

RE: No bi-amping or bi-wiring on the Magnepan 1.7i., posted on August 12, 2020 at 18:53:12
LineSource
Audiophile

Posts: 145
Location: Iowa
Joined: July 29, 2014
 Well I never used lamp cord, so I did realize thicker gauges were important but I thought it ended there. And my previous assumptions are far from rare, even from people who've been in this hobby as long as I've been. There are plenty of heated discussions here and in other forums between believers and people who think they know better. People tend to believe want they want to believe to justify what they are willing to spend. I'm guilty of that myself.
LineSource

 

RE: "I was shocked at the terrific bass the 3.7s produced in that room - no need for a sub" ..., posted on August 12, 2020 at 19:11:51
LineSource
Audiophile

Posts: 145
Location: Iowa
Joined: July 29, 2014
 Oh I know that's absolutely true and the first time I listen to a recording I have the subs on to see if those frequencies are present. I listened to Chvrch's latest album the other day with the subs on and it has a tremendous amount of low frequencies that 1.7s will never reproduce. But if a recording doesn't contain it I like the quality and speed of the bass that all Maggie's produce on their own. When I played Copeland's Fanfare For the Common Man, Reference Recordings the first time with the subs on my wife came in to see if everything was okay. I don't think the cats have ever been the same.
LineSource

 

RE: The Adcom Amps Were/Are Great..., posted on August 12, 2020 at 19:31:22
LineSource
Audiophile

Posts: 145
Location: Iowa
Joined: July 29, 2014
 The shop I bought the Adcom 535 from tested every piece of gear with you there before taking it home. My 535 put out 95 watts per channel into eight ohms. The staff would place bets on how much 535s would test at.
LineSource

 

RE: The Adcom Amps Were/Are Great..., posted on August 12, 2020 at 20:24:29
Jonesy
Audiophile

Posts: 3156
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Joined: September 1, 2005
Contributor
  Since: March 1, 2018
 Don't you love it when a company errs on the conservative side rather then skew specifications! Those amps were built well.

Cheers!

Jonesy


"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."




 

RE: No bi-amping or bi-wiring on the Magnepan 1.7i., posted on August 13, 2020 at 16:18:39
FX35
Audiophile

Posts: 151
Joined: March 6, 2020
 How thick a speaker cable is has absolutely nothing to do with performance, and thick gauged wire is totally unnecessary, no matter which amp - speaker combi. There are so many factors that affect cable performance, the gauge of a wire is negligible.

 

RE: Least amount of power in to Magnepans, posted on August 22, 2020 at 13:22:10
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12589
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Blast from the past:

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: No bi-amping or bi-wiring on the Magnepan 1.7i., posted on August 23, 2020 at 16:37:59
farfetched
Audiophile

Posts: 957
Location: Cleveland!
Joined: October 13, 2010
 I used to have some thin speaker cables and a cat that loved to chew on them. Cat chewed through one eventually. I bought runs of HT pro-11's to replace what I think were DH labs. The harmonic tech's are beefy, and beefily built. They were too large in diameter for the cat to enjoy chewing. She moved on. All was well.

People come over and say, hmm, those must be expensive cables, and I say, sorta, but it was mainly about this stupid cat I used to have.
/ optimally proportioned triangles are our friends


 

You must be a bass freak!, posted on August 30, 2020 at 18:18:15
GreatSound
 Are you looking for bass that ruffles your pants legs, and stuns small animals and children!

The bass from planar speakers is natural and tuneful, not like rock bass through a box speaker.

Try listening to a standup double bass or cello in a real concert hall for comparison.

Adding subwoofers to the big magnepans give a noticeable shrinking of image, from 6 feet tall (image with a full range maggie) too a short bass image of a box speaker.

I hate that!



 

RE: Not really - but I love (pipe) organ music ..., posted on August 30, 2020 at 19:35:21
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12548
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 And the subs make this music much more like hearing it live, in a church. :-))

I have an LP of organ music which, just as a filler, has a track with 16Hz, 12Hz & 8Hz tones recorded (the latter from a 64' pipe!).

I can clearly hear the 16Hz tone but - although the cantilever wiggles from side to side with increasing amplitude - cannot hear the 12Hz or 8Hz tones.

Andy

 

RE: Not really - but I love (pipe) organ music ..., posted on August 31, 2020 at 16:09:51
FX35
Audiophile

Posts: 151
Joined: March 6, 2020
 You must have super natural hearing abilities to actually "hear" 16Hz......... "feel" it, yeah, for sure. It would be exceptional for a healthy 20 year old to actually hear anything under 20Hz, let alone someone of a higher age group.

 

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