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? New Amps R Best 4 MG's

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Posted on July 22, 2017 at 07:35:52
steve.sukiennik
Audiophile

Posts: 206
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Joined: May 23, 2017
 Hi,
Who has experience with matching newer (power amps or monoblox) to MG's.
Looking 4 the clearest sound 4 the least $.
I simply don't have time or $ to bring all of home 2 find out.
Thanks,
Steve

 

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which MG? MG20.7, MMG, MG1.6, etc..nt, posted on July 22, 2017 at 10:08:50
Green Lantern
Audiophile

Posts: 16952
Location: San Diego, Ca
Joined: November 12, 2002
Contributor
  Since: June 17, 2003









 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on July 22, 2017 at 10:29:59
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12332
Joined: February 9, 2010
 The A21 is an excellent choice if you're on a budget, sort of the least expensive amp currently made that can properly be called high end. If you're adventurous, you can improve its performance by upping the bias, there are instructions online.

If you spend a bit more, e.g., on a Pass, you can buy more finesse.

People inevitably speak highly of the Sanders Magtech, which was designed with Maggies in mind and with its regulated power supply can deliver all the current you'll ever want and then some.

At the opposite extreme, you can even get away with an Emotiva XPA-2 if you're really strapped for cash, I compared one to the A21 and while the A21 was the better amp the XPA was quite serviceable.

Another possibility would be to bi-amp, now or in the future -- I assume you're talking about your 1-D's? They're ideal for bi-amping, with a simple first order crossover -- you could throw together a passive line level XO in an afternoon. And of course then you can use smaller amps.

 

RE: which MG? MG20.7, MMG, MG1.6, etc..nt, posted on July 22, 2017 at 13:35:16
steve.sukiennik
Audiophile

Posts: 206
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Joined: May 23, 2017
 Hay Green Lantern,
I own T-1D's. I refurbish MG2's only. All the others R great but not 4 the $$$. MG1's R OK in a van or SUV.
Thx,
Steve

 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on July 22, 2017 at 13:41:35
steve.sukiennik
Audiophile

Posts: 206
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Joined: May 23, 2017
 Hay josh358,
Sorry 2 mess up this note w/another person's
Thank U, Thank U, Thank U,
U saved me tons of time shopping. I'm a little confused though. I thought biamping means adding another dirty electric X-over. I had it long ago & a super ultra refined balls out single amp thru the dirty choke & dirty cap was way clearer. Shoodn't I go that rte w/U'r amp suggestions along w/an upgraded new foil choke & an audio quality cap?
Thx,
Steve

 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on July 22, 2017 at 14:02:24
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12332
Joined: February 9, 2010
 That's the beauty of a single pole crossover -- you don't need an active electronic crossover at all! You can just use passive components between the preamp and the power amps, then wire directly to the woofer and tweeter.

The trick is that the values will depend on equipment impedances, but if you aren't going to be swapping out amps regularly, that isn't an issue. If you are going to be swapping out amps, then you do need an electronic crossover.

 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on July 22, 2017 at 14:10:52
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 By far the best approach to the T 1D is to biamp. Since high end HT multichannel power amps depreciate rapidly in the used market you can obtain real bargains.

The Theta Dreadnaught linear amp is among my favorites - get a 5 channel version.

BAT has a modular multichannel amp so you can use it in any config from 4 to 6 channels

Lexicon also has a great multichannel amp either in 5 or 7 channels LX5 or 7

Also look out for Proceed and Krell multichannel amps.

Other options on the cheap are the Adcom 7805 or 7807

 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on July 22, 2017 at 14:13:09
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 And you can just biamp the T 1D with the original passive parts just by rewiring the jumpers - the connector plate is even marked up for biamping.

 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on July 22, 2017 at 14:47:18
steve.sukiennik
Audiophile

Posts: 206
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Joined: May 23, 2017
 Hay Satie,
Thanks, just what I need 2 no but I'll still have 2 introduce a dirty electric X-over? Rite??? They're all dirty? Rite???
Maybe ML makes a clean one? Who else & $$$$$?
Thx,
Steve

 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on July 22, 2017 at 14:53:12
steve.sukiennik
Audiophile

Posts: 206
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Joined: May 23, 2017
 Hay josh358,
Thank U, Thank U, Thank U, Thank U, Thank U, Thank U,
But do I still need 2 amps or 4 monoblox w/this new 2 me X-over method?
Thx,
Steve

 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on July 22, 2017 at 17:23:10
BDP24
Audiophile

Posts: 1070
Location: Vancouver, Washington
Joined: September 12, 2013
 Steve, WTF?! Why do you keep insisting all electronic x-overs are "dirty"? Because you had a pos (which you never identify) years ago? So what? You don't even need an electronic x-o to bi-amp Tympanis, as everyone here keeps telling you. Do you have a problem with reading comprehension, or do you not even read the replies to your ridiculous statements?

 

+1, posted on July 22, 2017 at 17:26:22
emailtim
Audiophile

Posts: 5498
Joined: July 2, 2017
 +1
.

2022/03/30 Historical Records CENSORED

 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on July 22, 2017 at 18:50:57
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 You can biamp just using the existing T 1D crossover - no electronic crossover - each amp channel sees one filter and its driver. All it requires is the jumpers to be rewired according to the diagram on the speaker's plate.

 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on July 22, 2017 at 22:09:59
steve.sukiennik
Audiophile

Posts: 206
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Joined: May 23, 2017
 Hay Satie,
Thanksss,
Finally what I really need 2 know!
I'm much pickier then U mite think.
I'm way past using T-1D's back plate connections.
They've been stripped years ago along w/all those nasty connections & the dirty 6 strand steel wire? NUTS, what were they thinking back then.
WHAT A DIFFERENCE. Everything especially the highs just blossomed.
Sort of like wen U get a new TT, TA & cart.
I use new GOOD cleaner wire all the way up to the drivers.
UNREAL!!!
Steve

 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on July 23, 2017 at 04:48:27
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12332
Joined: February 9, 2010
 Yep, same number of amps. The only difference is that the XO is passive rather than active. Or you could try Satie's idea and bi amp using the high level XO in the speaker, but it won't sound as good.

 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on July 23, 2017 at 10:22:22
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 Then you just need to rewire a bit to biamp.

What are you using for power amp now?

 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on July 24, 2017 at 03:24:26
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12332
Joined: February 9, 2010
 I'd forgotten about that.

 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on July 28, 2017 at 09:21:43
steve.sukiennik
Audiophile

Posts: 206
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Joined: May 23, 2017
 Hay Satie,
Is hearsay true that Proceed & Odyssey, as great as they R, have tons of later probs along w/service probs: that's Y they're always 4 sale? Wen U mentioned Classe' YaHHH baby, love their prods. Like ML, Classe' doesn't seem THAT much better at lower volumes but Boy, turn 'em up LOUD & they 2 don't fall apart & have that 'DARK' sound U no I luv.
U saved me thousands. I mite use my Quad 606 on the tymp's bass panels cause it pumps & NEVER GETS HOT, then look 4 an ultimate, inexpensive, clean & clear smaller wattage power amp 4 the tweeters. Maybe a low wattage Belles amp. Way less $$ than paying 4 a balls out better single amp. Yahhhh
AAAAND, does monoblocking really blow single amp away, as they ALL say. I'm sure it does w/their increased circuit isolation.
What's w/people having their TT on goofy shelfing rite atop their electronics. What R they thinking or not thinking. Come on.
Lastly, my ML-10A doesn't have any type of caps, altho their older pres do so I can't do U'r suggested cap upgrade, I guess.
Thx,
Steve

 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on July 28, 2017 at 12:37:10
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 The main advantage in monos, so far as I am concerned, is that you have more power supply. Second you have less speaker wire, then you have less separation issues from one channel modulating the other either by coupling (magnetic or capacitive) or via a shared power supply.

I do think a high bias class A/AB amp with no feedback like those I suggested would do well.

The ML10 has caps in the power supply and in the ground circuits even if they are not directly in the signal path (there is one in the phono section) - as you say the pre is direct coupled. Lower ESR caps will improve performance even in those less siginificant positions.

 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on July 28, 2017 at 13:51:30
steve.sukiennik
Audiophile

Posts: 206
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Joined: May 23, 2017
 Hay Satie,
Thx, I'm not yet ready 4 monos but I guess I gotta get a B4 amp Xover 2 add a tweeter amp. IT HAS 2 B the hot set 4 years 2 come, not a temp soln.
I'll open up my ML-10a pre tho it supposedly is nothing like the prior ML-10, not sure. I'll let U no. So what do U think? Quad 606 bass panels, new high end lo watt clean amp 4 tweets?
Steve

 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on July 31, 2017 at 15:06:54
steve.sukiennik
Audiophile

Posts: 206
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Joined: May 23, 2017
 Hay Satie,
Thanks again. Now I C what U mean. I should use 1 amp going 2 the tweeters w/cap in line. Then use another amp 2 the bass panels w/choke in line. Net effect: biamp w/conventional passive X-over elements after the amps. It wood B better overall since each amp will only have 1 passive element 2 go through. I always thought it all had 2 go through an X-over B4 the amps.
RITE????? No longer having 1 amp 2 go through both X-over elements.
Y didn't I C that?
What was the mention of passive X-over B4 amplifaction. I'm still twisted?
Thx,
Steve

 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on July 31, 2017 at 15:24:14
steve.sukiennik
Audiophile

Posts: 206
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Joined: May 23, 2017
 Hay josh358,
Sorry 2 B so stupid but I just didn't get it rite a way. I never heard of passive X-over B4 amping. Or do U mean a fixed freq 2way electronic X-over B4 amping? Also T-1D's do not need subs unless U'r equip is budget trash so I only need Xing-over at say 1100hz.
U'r take?
Steve

 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on July 31, 2017 at 15:33:34
steve.sukiennik
Audiophile

Posts: 206
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Joined: May 23, 2017
 Hay again josh358,
Do U mean Magnepan XO X-over thing. There's currently 1 on Ebay 4 $75. If so, what R the pots 4, volume I guess. Is it scratchy dirty & in need of tuner cleaner? Can't B 4 changing freqs.
Thx,
Steve

 

RE: XO, posted on July 31, 2017 at 19:36:21
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12332
Joined: February 9, 2010
 I was thinking you'd just throw one together, but if the Magnepan XO is available, why not snap it up? You can always change the components if you like.

 

RE: Here you go, posted on July 31, 2017 at 19:37:50
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12332
Joined: February 9, 2010
 Nope, I was talking about a passive XO. It couldn't be a simpler crossover. The only thing about passive XO's is that you have to take the impedances of the amplifiers into account when calculating the component values. So you can't just throw another amp in to try it.

 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on July 31, 2017 at 23:26:20
Roger Gustavsson
Audiophile

Posts: 2058
Location: Huskvarna
Joined: February 12, 2010
 Forget the Magnepan XO-1, it is just a plastic enclosure with two cheap potentiometers and a few RCA-connectors. You need to solder in two capacitors to create a first order high pass filter. You also need to keep the passive low pass section of your speaker level crossover. The potentiometers set the level of the basses.

http://www.forumbilder.se/DEV78/img-9403.jpg
http://www.forumbilder.se/DEV78/img-9404.jpg
http://www.forumbilder.se/DEV78/img-9405.jpg

 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on August 1, 2017 at 07:37:12
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 As Roger said, the point is to minimize low quality components in the signal path. And the XO-1 is not made with the highest quality parts. You can readily build a substitute volume control or get a passive for under $50 like the one from Schiit. You only need the one to use on the higher gain amp. If the amp has a level adjustment on it then you can just use that (e.g. the A21).

 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on August 1, 2017 at 08:05:18
steve.sukiennik
Audiophile

Posts: 206
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Joined: May 23, 2017
 Hay Satie,
Thank U, Thank U,
I'm startin 2 get it. A clean EZ passive X-over B4 amping, I'm I rite?
I'm totally aware that ALL has 2 B considered wen putting this SUPER system 2gether. Altho my Quad 606 is a much better match 2 my tymps w/conventional X-over, I miss the clean lo TIM character of my Leach LNF-1 100watt amp. It was clean but not enuff 4 tymps. I no longer have it. Last year or so I should've bought one on EBAY 4 only $149USD. They R few & far.
Wouldn't that or similar work out 4 the tweets & the Quad 606 4 the bass panels. I'll have 2 get something B4 I dive into the X-over deal/project 1st, Rite?

 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on August 1, 2017 at 08:43:02
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 Yes, you are right.

First, you could just start with passive speaker level biamping - the Leach or whatever you like in 100W high bias class AB low feedback amp or Tubes to drive the tweeter and keep the quad for the bass. You just need to wire the amp output directly to the tweeter with the capacitor in series, and the bass amp directly to the bass panel with the inductor in series. It will provide most of the benefit of biamping since the 1st order filters are easy on the amps since they are not very reactive.
You might need a volume control on one of the amps - depends on which one you choose.

Then you can take your time to choose parts and construct a line level passive crossover (PLLXO), you should be able to make it with a single cap on the tweeter amp and a resistor and cap for the bass amp.If you like you can splice it into the interconnects and skip RCA in and out connectors and their joints (you save 4 joints and 2 connector junctions).

 

RE: ? New Amps R Best 4 MG's, posted on August 1, 2017 at 13:46:22
steve.sukiennik
Audiophile

Posts: 206
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Joined: May 23, 2017
 Thank U again Satie,
Question I've always pondered: Since all my preamps have always had just 1 main out, what should I devise 2 expand 2 2 main outs? How can I B sure that both R not affecting each other. Like the basic Y connector in a garden hose divider. Water pressure & volume decrease accordingly. Does something like this &/or worse need 2 B addressed?
Thx,
Steve

 

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