Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 15, 2017 at 07:19:42
grantv Manufacturer Posts: 7728 Location: B.C. Joined: January 15, 2002	Not from experience (I wish, would love to have a pair one day), I think that room is simply too small for TYIVA's. I'd shoehorn 3 series with subs and call it a day. Just my opinion.

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 15, 2017 at 07:29:55

guitar slim
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I would say yes you can, but with some caveats. Mine are set up across a long, narrow room about 13.5 X 30. In my case I get a nice wide soundstage with the tweeters out near the side walls. One complication of this, though, is that I needed sound absorbers on the wide wall at the first reflection points to keep early reflections from messing up the soundstage. That was not a big problem for me.

Of course the other thing is that it's going to be tight if you want to put a giant projection screen for home theater in the middle :)

Josh will probably chime in because I think he has T-IVs in a relatively narrow space and has tried separating the mid-tweeter panels from the bass. That might work well for you too.

BTW, I think that bi-amping is a great idea for these speakers, though opinions on appropriate amps vary widely. Plenty of power for the bass panels and accuracy for the mid-tweets is what you want, I think.

Best of luck, and keep us informed of your results.

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 15, 2017 at 07:39:17

Satie
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You can just about do it in the split configuration with the MT panels separated from the bass panels and the bass panels placed smack at the sidewalls. The MT panels will likely be spaced with about 8ft between the tweeters and would be about 2 ft off the sidewalls. You can have the MT ahead of the bass sections or the other way around. The spacing needs to be roughly 2 ft between the plane of the bass panels and the plane of the MT panels. So it is going to take out a nice sized pair of 2X3 sections out of your room. About the size of a pair of Klipschorns.

The space between the bass panels would be 6 ft when opened, and about 8 ft when folded.

You can do it but you will definitely be living between the speakers.

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 15, 2017 at 09:41:59

Kythyn
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Thanks for the response. You may or may not remember the other thread where I posted pictures of my room. I think I have adequate room to place them separating the bass panels from the MT panel. Blocking off the kitchen side of the room is not an issue for me. How far in front of the back wall should the bass panels be?

What do you think about the biamp, using the Khartago and Adcom? Should I use something else in the $1000 or less range for the MT?

I'll need some kind of crossover, does anyone sell one suitable for this application?

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 15, 2017 at 11:06:04
Norman M	http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/pix/MikeBarney/manual.pdf Magnepans' user's manual suggests 3 ft. or more from the wall. Additionally when separating the panels, I think it also suggests as no one else has seem to have done, reversing the phase of one of them. (It also speaks about using them in narrow of narrow rooms.)

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 15, 2017 at 11:24:31

neolith
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You want them 5' or more from the front wall regardless if they are in "landscape" or "portrait" orientation. They may work ok on the short wall as dipoles do not radiate sideways like cones. You just need to try it and see.
I looked up the specs on your amps and did not find the gain or sensitivity of the Khartago but you Adcom had a sensitivity of 130 mv which means the gain is really high (about 50 db) and it is very unlikely you will find another amp that matches that gain. Typical is 24-30 db. It is imperative that the gains of the two amps match if you are going to biamp. There is some gain adjustment available with active crossovers but this is usually limited to about 6db.

"Our head is round in order to allow our thoughts to change direction." Francis Picabia

Crossover, posted on May 15, 2017 at 13:25:41

neolith
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As far as an active XO, on the surface their are several choices. However when you get down to the nuts and bolts, you will find limitations due to cost or lack of flexibility. For active crossovers, the choices are pro equipment such as Behringer or Rane, the Pass First Watt B4, Byrston 10B and Marchand XM-44. The pro equipment tends to be noisy and some models are limited to a 4th order L-R which is not what you want. The best bang for the buck is a Marchand. Another approach is a mini-DSP which is very flexible and relatively cheap. And finally, if you are up to a DIY, you can get the PCB's for the crossover and power supply from Rod Elliott and build your own for about $100. It will sound as good as any of the above and is the way I would go if I was starting out.
I do have a Marchand XM-44 that is in moth balls if you are interested.

"Our head is round in order to allow our thoughts to change direction." Francis Picabia

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 15, 2017 at 16:24:08
Kythyn Audiophile Posts: 57 Location: Florida Joined: February 2, 2015	Thank you for the informative response. It re-emphasizes how much more I have to learn. There is another Adcom GFA-555 available now. What are your thoughts of biamping with a pair of them?

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 15, 2017 at 16:28:40
Satie Audiophile Posts: 5426 Joined: July 6, 2002	The Khartago should do fine on the mid/tweet and the Adcom is good for the bass. The crossover suggestions from Neo are good. I should add that the Rane and Ashly crossovers are not noisy. A Rane 22 should do it for you for a cheap start but it is a very steep slope. It has delay adjustment to phase the bass output correctly. .

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 15, 2017 at 17:13:22
BDP24 Audiophile Posts: 1070 Location: Vancouver, Washington Joined: September 12, 2013	Be careful with the 555. I've had three, and they are notorious for their power supply capacitors leaking, and for blowing up, taking the speakers they are hooked to with them.

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 15, 2017 at 17:13:38

neolith
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I prefer to biamp with two identical amps. It solves the problem of matching gain and I think the integration across the audio spectrum is better.
BTW, there are two ways to actively biamp - vertically and horizontally. In vertical biamping, there is one stereo amp for each speaker, similar to monoblocks - stereoblocks if you will. With horizontal biamping one amp handles the two bass channels, and the other handles the two treble channels. In order to vertically biamp, the amplifiers need to be identical. The advantage of horizontal biamping is that you can use two different amps. As I said, I prefer using identical amps and vertically biamping. This allowed me to place the amps right behind the speakers and use eight 2' pieces of 16 AWG magnet wire for the speaker cables. The IC's were balanced and unaffected by the long runs. Balanced IC's are much less affected by materials and construction compared to unbalanced and consequently much cheaper.

"Our head is round in order to allow our thoughts to change direction." Francis Picabia

RE: Crossover, posted on May 15, 2017 at 17:25:27
Kythyn Audiophile Posts: 57 Location: Florida Joined: February 2, 2015	Please PM me regarding the Marchand

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 15, 2017 at 17:28:02
Kythyn Audiophile Posts: 57 Location: Florida Joined: February 2, 2015	Turns out the second Adcom is a GFA-555 II and the matching preamp

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 16, 2017 at 08:01:02

Norman M

FWIW, for several years I had no trouble and enjoyed listening to my T IV-As using 2 of the original bridged GFA 555s, (as if each were a monoblock). I could played the speakers loud with no blown fuses, nor any other difficulty. I also did use the Adcom 555s to bi-amp the speakers to no advantage but requires a lot of nasty extra cables and speaker wiring (in addition to Magnepan's X-O). I also used a restored Adcom GFP 565 pre-amp, which I still use today. There wasn't anything wrong with this 565, but having it recapped provided some peace of mind, even though I couldn't detect a difference, (as if I added a $350 Tice Clock to my system).

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 16, 2017 at 08:59:49
Kythyn Audiophile Posts: 57 Location: Florida Joined: February 2, 2015	Would you consider using the GFA-555 and GFA-555 II together as monoblocks? Or is there some sort of difference between the two that makes that undesirable?

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 16, 2017 at 16:45:41
Satie Audiophile Posts: 5426 Joined: July 6, 2002	They will not do well with the 4 ohm load in bridged mono operation. It is better to biamp with the two amps instead. One amp per mid/tweeters and one for the bass . If the slight differences between them are not something that bothers you then you can vertically biamp one amp per speaker and save on a load of speaker cable.

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 16, 2017 at 18:11:41

Kythyn
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Satie,

There is a Crown Macro Reference available on Audiogon now. Would that be sufficient to power all six panels? Or is the Odyssey Kahartago and Adcom GFA-555 bi-amp a better option?

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 16, 2017 at 19:09:37

Satie
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The Crown Macro Reference can power up the whole speaker. better than the Khartago+ Adcom 555. But the Macro is hard a bit bright and thin sounding on top though it is transparent and detailed. The Odyssey amps are richer and fuller sounding. Using the Crown on top would make it necessary to match it with a tube preamp and/or solid core copper wiring..

The Crown would make for a terrific bass amp though. I use a Crown 5002 for my bass panels.

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 17, 2017 at 06:59:09

Kythyn
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It seems then that the options are:

1) Bi-amp with Odyssey Khartago on MT and Adcom GFA-555 on bass

2) Power all six panels with the Crown Macro Reference.

3) Bi-amp with the Adcom on MT and the Crown on bass?

There is an Audio by Van Alstine PAS 4i all tube preamp on audiogon for $439. Would be a good match with the Crown Macro Reference?

Please share your thoughts.

RE: Here you go, posted on May 17, 2017 at 08:44:58

josh358
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You can use them in split configuration, as I have with my IVA's in a room of similar size. Put the woofer panels against the side walls, then position the mid-tweeter panels a bit in front at the standard 60 degree separation or whatever works best in your room. You may have to flip the phase of the MT panels to minimize issues at the crossover point. It works quite well.

Here's my setup:

And someone else's:

You can find instructions and a sketch in the Tympani IVA manual.

You can also just leave them in line as in the photo here, but you'll have to sit close enough to get a sufficient stereo spread (it's basically determined by the mid-tweet panels):

You may also find that you have to EQ the bass response some (which you may have to do with Tympanis in a small room under any circumstances).

RE: Here you go, posted on May 17, 2017 at 08:51:59
josh358 Industry Professional Posts: 12332 Joined: February 9, 2010	You have to try the phase both ways, flipping it will make things better or worse (or the same) depending on driver separation.

RE: Here you go, posted on May 17, 2017 at 08:55:38

josh358
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Yes, but that would require that we have sanity. :-)

Actually, paradoxically, the IV's and IVA's can be good for small rooms because you can use them in split configuration. But by the same token, I think you'll have plenty of bass from a III series speaker -- Tympanis are really overkill for a small space and typically need to have the bass equalized down (which is great though because it leaves you with more headroom).

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 17, 2017 at 10:23:27

BDP24
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The Van Alstine PAS tube pre-amp will be a real good match with any solid state amp, as long as it's output impedance isn't too high for the amp's input impedance (observing the old 10-to-1 ratio rule. A 1k output with a 10k input, for instance.). I had one years ago, and it's a nice pre, not too warm (without the Van Alstine mod, the PAS has the old classic tube sound).

Each Tympani panel is 16" wide, so a 3-panel array is actually 48"/4' wide, a pair taking up "only" 8' of room width. Still a lot, but less than 9'!

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 17, 2017 at 10:40:27

Norman M

Either you have had some bad luck or I, some good luck. I have two of the original Adcom GFA-555s, and neither has even been recapped but both are in service today. I've used them to drive top/bottoms when bi-amping, and as bridged 'mono blocks' to drive Tympani 1Cs, IV-As and MMGs.

Admittedly long ago I showed some poor judgement and set one afire while playing the canons on a Telarc 1812 LP too loud. (CD weren't even around at that time.) It happened while I was driving Tympani 1Cs and Adcom was kind enough to replace it at no charge with yet another original GFA-555.

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 17, 2017 at 10:57:45

Norman M

Being too ignorant to know what I could or could not do, I biamped Tympani 1Cs using ARC's EC-2A X-O. To my favor I might add that there was no Internet around back then for advice, perhaps neither was Al Gore, (but he might have been in diapers). I used GFA-555s along with ARC D76As as well as the original GAS Ampzilla. Using the Bass and Tweeter level controls on the rear of the EC-2A, I had zero difficulty in adjusting levels. (IIRC a D-76A also had useful level controls.)

RE: Here you go, posted on May 17, 2017 at 11:04:01
Norman M	"You may have to flip the phase of the MT panels to minimize issues at the crossover point." The Magnepan IV-A manual suggests trying that because of possible time delay considerations when the M/T panels are separated from the B panels. Additionally it indicates that it might or might not be helpful.

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 17, 2017 at 11:13:50
Norman M	IMO it's a try, (the 555 and 555II bridged consideration), as it couldn't do any harm, paying attention to learn if both speakers are performing similarly (both levels and sound quality) perhaps playing a 'mono' recording or if available engaging a 'mono' switch on a pre-amp even with a 'stereo' recording. I would swap the amps as well.

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 17, 2017 at 13:15:26

BDP24
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I don't know if your experience with 555's is more typical than mine, Norman, or visa versa. What I do know is that the 555 was a lot of amplifier for not a lot of money, a clear best buy. Anthony Cordesman's Stereophile review of it was, as usual for him, a bit over-enthusiastic (he was always trying to "scoop" all the other hi-end reviewers), as Stereophile owners/editors Gordon Holt and Larry Archibald stated in their follow-up comments.

The amp was designed by Nelson Pass, but built to a price point. I don't know what causes some power supply capacitors to dry out (as mine had, I being the at least second owner) and others not to, but before hooking up a 555 to a valued set of speakers and turning it on, have it checked out on a test bench.

I bought one 555 to use for the bass columns of my Infinity RS-1b's, and a PS Audio 200C for the m/t panels, a good combination. As a 200C can be had for around the same price as a 555, I would much prefer the 200C. I actually still have mine, the 555's long gone.

RE: Here you go, posted on May 17, 2017 at 13:55:38
josh358 Industry Professional Posts: 12332 Joined: February 9, 2010	Exactly.

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 17, 2017 at 16:02:31
Norman M	'If it ain't broke, don't fix it.' I myself have been on the "test bench" and most likely will continue to be there again in the near future (if I allow myself to be placed there), but my 2 Adcom 555s, NOT.

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 17, 2017 at 16:08:46
BDP24 Audiophile Posts: 1070 Location: Vancouver, Washington Joined: September 12, 2013	Ha! True, for one already having and using a 555 or two, no need to bench test. I was talking to anyone considering getting a 555.

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 17, 2017 at 18:32:53
Kythyn Audiophile Posts: 57 Location: Florida Joined: February 2, 2015	The speakers have been purchased. A pair of Wyred4Sound mAmp monoblocks are now available at the same price point as the Crown Macrotech Reference. These would allow for vertical bi-amping of the Tympani IVs (not IVas). Wyred4Sound is well reviewed with Magnepans, but I wonder if there is any issue with mixing older and newer technology. Please comment.

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 18, 2017 at 09:47:23
Satie Audiophile Posts: 5426 Joined: July 6, 2002	Yes, the Van Alstine PAS mods are very good with tighter bass and more extended treble than the original Dyna pre. It will do fine driving a 10K input impedance but noticeably better into 50K.

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 18, 2017 at 11:25:10

Satie
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In a word, no problem mixing a class D and AB amp. Especially not a problem on the tympani where slight time domain variations between the amps can be easily compensated with tiny changes to relative distances between the drivers..

I had no problem obtaining coherent performance and great imaging using a blend of class AB, tubes and class D amplification in triamping and biamping my Tympani IV and with its modified Neo8 mids..

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 18, 2017 at 11:45:20
Kythyn Audiophile Posts: 57 Location: Florida Joined: February 2, 2015	I am leaning towards the Wyred4Sound mAmps with the Tympani IVs, in a vertical bi-amp arrangement. I'll hang on to the Adcom and MMGs for a while until I get used to the Tympani Sound.

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 18, 2017 at 15:09:53
Satie Audiophile Posts: 5426 Joined: July 6, 2002	Very highly regarded little amps at their price point. Very convenient form factor.

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 18, 2017 at 15:27:48

neolith
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I was only going by the specs provided by Adcom. A amplifier that produces 200 wpc @ 8 ohms with a sensitivity of 130 mV has a gain of ~50 dB. This is extremely high and I would have expected the sensitivity to be more like 1.3 V (gain = 32 dB) but those are the numbers. Since you got the amp to work with the D76A (gain of 25.5 dB), it suggests the specs are in error.

"Our head is round in order to allow our thoughts to change direction." Francis Picabia

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 18, 2017 at 16:33:00

Kythyn
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Satie,

Two Wyred$Sound mAmps or one Crown Macrotech Reference for the same cost?

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 18, 2017 at 17:42:23
Norman M	I wish I could confirm that today, but I parted ways with the D76As about 25 years ago. While they had no difficulty driving 8 ohm Tympani 1Cs they were not up to the task with my 4/3(?) ohm Tympani IV-As. So I sold the D76As to a tube enthusiast and the 1Cs to another individual. (In fact, D76s and T-1Cs were supposed to be a marriage made in heaven.)

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 18, 2017 at 18:53:16
Satie Audiophile Posts: 5426 Joined: July 6, 2002	I would take the Crown Macro Ref. since it can do over 1KW into 4 ohms and has a deep bass that is very impressive. It is fairly easy to get around its thin high end signature with a tube preamp. And it drives anything while the mAmp is going to have problems below 3 ohms and has only 1/3rd the power. It will be useful to have the extra power.

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 19, 2017 at 05:25:40
Kythyn Audiophile Posts: 57 Location: Florida Joined: February 2, 2015	Thank you. I was leaning toward the Wyred4Sound as newer pieces, but the dealer was being difficult, so I will pursue the Crown.

RE: Here you go, posted on May 19, 2017 at 08:02:54
josh358 Industry Professional Posts: 12332 Joined: February 9, 2010	When I got my 1-D's, the SOA arrangement was to biamp them with D-76A's -- something that as a kid with his first job and apartment was out of my reach, so I had to settle for a single Hafler instead.

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on May 19, 2017 at 10:15:09
Satie Audiophile Posts: 5426 Joined: July 6, 2002	The other thing that you would care about in owning a vintage amp is that there is a pro audio repair shop that can rebuild/service a Crown amp in practically every town.

RE: Here you go, posted on May 19, 2017 at 14:27:56
neolith Audiophile Posts: 4842 Location: Virginia Joined: February 21, 2002 Contributor Since: December 2, 2004	The first pair of Maggies that I heard were T-1Ds biamped with the D76 and,IIRC, a D110 using the ARC active crossover (EC 2A ?) I have been listening to Maggies ever since. "Our head is round in order to allow our thoughts to change direction." Francis Picabia

RE: Here you go, posted on May 19, 2017 at 17:42:37
josh358 Industry Professional Posts: 12332 Joined: February 9, 2010	Classic. They were the first Maggies I'd ever heard as well and that was the pair I bought.

RE: Here you go, posted on May 22, 2017 at 06:31:29
Kythyn Audiophile Posts: 57 Location: Florida Joined: February 2, 2015	A Crown 5002 taken out of a closed down club is available near me. It is said to be in working order. What is a fair price for it? And what should I look out for?

RE: Here you go, posted on May 22, 2017 at 07:28:54
Satie Audiophile Posts: 5426 Joined: July 6, 2002	Should be around $1500 depending on condition. It is a matter of what it sounds like more than what it looks like. It could have been used in a badly ventilated rack and still look like it just came out of the box despite components being half way fried to death. In a club environment the amp has a better chance to survive intact than a touring life on the road..

RE: Here you go, posted on May 22, 2017 at 08:52:37
josh358 Industry Professional Posts: 12332 Joined: February 9, 2010	I was going to demur to Satie, but I see he's already answered . . .

RE: Here you go, posted on May 22, 2017 at 11:07:17

Norman M

IME the D76A couldn't handle a 4 ohm Maggie (and in fact was discontinued in ~1977) while the Tympani 1D was introduced in 1980.

Naturally that wouldn't prevent any listener having access to the D76/A from trying to use it on a T-1D. I know because I tried using D76As (bridged, or not) to drive any of the sections within a Tympani IIIB (4/5 ohms) and failed. OTHOH that amp was up to the task of driving the Tympani IIIA (8 ohms).

The Magnepan/Audio Research Corp. team expected listeners to use an amp providing more current than could a D76A, for use on their Tympani 1D.

RE: Here you go, posted on May 22, 2017 at 11:31:31
Kythyn Audiophile Posts: 57 Location: Florida Joined: February 2, 2015	There is also a Crown K2 available from this club closure. How does it compare to the 5002?

RE: Here you go, posted on May 22, 2017 at 18:48:10
Satie Audiophile Posts: 5426 Joined: July 6, 2002	Cheap and well regarded at its price point the K2 is OK. Definitely not a 5002. The 5002 is in a different class. The 5002 listed at $5k.

RE: Here you go, posted on May 23, 2017 at 05:42:09
Kythyn Audiophile Posts: 57 Location: Florida Joined: February 2, 2015	Everything I read indicates the Crown should be driving the bass panels. Can the Adcom be used on the MT panels? Depending on what the Crown costs, I will have $500 - $1000 left in my budget. In order to bi-amp, I need a crossover. I can have my Adcom GTP-500 preamp serviced and use it though I would prefer a tube preamp. As always, open to suggestions and solutions.

RE: Here you go, posted on May 23, 2017 at 11:53:31

Satie
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If you are going to have a Crown 5000 series or Macro Reference then start by using it for the entire speaker. and play that way for a while till you established how it sounds in your room once it is optimized as to positioning, Since those are 30-40 year old speakers they will need a shake down period to reveal delamination or any other problem they might have. That might eat the budget for biamping for a time - so don't prepare for it just yet. Once you are sure what you have has been repaired and will function for some time into the future then you start working towards tweaking the speaker and amplification.
Note what you find unsatisfying or lacking and then work with us to offer mods tweaks and to apply biamping and possibly DSP.

RE: Here you go, posted on May 23, 2017 at 16:48:21
Kythyn Audiophile Posts: 57 Location: Florida Joined: February 2, 2015	Thanks for the good advice Satie, as always. I see how easy it is to get sucked into the acquisition of one piece of equipment after another. Will the Schiit SYS passive preamp work for the Crown or should I dig the Adcom preamp out?

RE: Here you go, posted on May 23, 2017 at 17:24:59
Satie Audiophile Posts: 5426 Joined: July 6, 2002	The adcom preamp will do a better job so if you have one buried somewhere then do dig it up.

RE: Here you go, posted on May 24, 2017 at 05:39:38

Kythyn
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The 5002 will be delivered tonight for $750. It and the Adcom GTP-500 preamp will go in for service this weekend.

Will the 5002 find the typical household 15 amp circuit adequate? Preamp and CD player will be the only other things plugged into that outlet.

RE: Here you go, posted on May 24, 2017 at 08:53:01

Satie
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you can try with an extension chord to a 25 amp outlet that you get at home depot. The amp can take up a big portion of the 15 amps on startup so it needs to sit on a circuit (not just outlet) with no big power draw on it. Before I put in a separate panel for my basement listening room it was all off of one breaker and when the dehumidifier or sump operated switching on the amp could put you in the dark. Hopefully your living room outlets have nothing on their breaker circuit.

Very nice., posted on May 25, 2017 at 10:37:41
grantv Manufacturer Posts: 7728 Location: B.C. Joined: January 15, 2002	And I will now proceed to eat my hat (an old saying of a friend of mine, eat my shoe... along that line).

RE: Here you go, posted on May 30, 2017 at 05:09:47
Kythyn Audiophile Posts: 57 Location: Florida Joined: February 2, 2015	The Crown 5002 that I picked up is wired for 240v but apparently can be converted to 120v. Is there a preference for home use?

RE: Here you go, posted on May 30, 2017 at 05:31:38
Satie Audiophile Posts: 5426 Joined: July 6, 2002	The preference is for the power rating you have available to you. If you have a 240 outlet for your room then it would be better to use that, gives more power.

RE: Here you go, posted on June 2, 2017 at 18:34:53
josh358 Industry Professional Posts: 12332 Joined: February 9, 2010	:-)

RE: Here you go, posted on June 3, 2017 at 06:05:17
Norman M	A narrow listening room doesn't seem to deter George: at 1:35 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCFhBmy6XFQ&app=desktop

RE: Here you go, posted on June 7, 2017 at 16:51:16

Kythyn
Audiophile

Posts: 57
Location: Florida
Joined: February 2, 2015

The Adcom preamp (STP-500) is looking at $132 in repairs. Is there a preamp on Audiogon or USAudiomart (or elsewhere) around $500 or less that I should consider instead? No need for a phone stage.

The speakers (actually just the panels) have arrived. The crossovers and cables are expected tomorrow. Can I test them out with the Adcom amp (GFA-555) and passive preamp?

RE: Here you go, posted on June 7, 2017 at 20:09:27
Satie Audiophile Posts: 5426 Joined: July 6, 2002	Tube SS hybrid or either? You can't play the mid/tweeter panels without the crossover but you can play the bass panels full range.

RE: Here you go, posted on June 8, 2017 at 09:15:22
Kythyn Audiophile Posts: 57 Location: Florida Joined: February 2, 2015	I have never owned tubes, but we had discussed using them to round out the hardness in the Crown amp that will eventually drive these speakers. I am open to either solution.

RE: Here you go, posted on June 8, 2017 at 10:27:18
josh358 Industry Professional Posts: 12332 Joined: February 9, 2010	Really! Glad to know I'm not the only one.

RE: Here you go, posted on June 8, 2017 at 10:32:18

josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12332
Joined: February 9, 2010

Also in addition to what Satie said 240V is balanced, so less likely to cause hum. The power company is doing you a big favor for free.

Downside, it's more dangerous if something goes wrong. You should also order new 240V connectors and receptacles (if you've rewired it yourself) so nobody plugs a 120V device into the outlet. I did that once when I moved into a new apartment with a miswired outlet and the next morning, discovered that my new torchiere lamp had melted!

Make sure you have a full 240V, if the cheapskate power company have you 2 legs of 3-phase commercial power like me you'll only have 207V and are better off using a single 120V line.

RE: Here you go, posted on June 8, 2017 at 12:11:48

Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002

I would suggest you look into one of the tube Schiit preamp/headphone amps which are quite popular and are neutrally balanced without a high freq. edge common in SS preamps at this price range. You can get them new or used well within your budget. With some patience I am sure you can pick one up on the used market at a substantial discount from the new price. Look at HeadFi for for sale opportunities and an idea of pricing.

Another suggestion is the old Melos SHA and particularly the SHA Gold as a great option near your budget, but somewhat above.

Other options are the very old SS classics like the Classe DR-5 and the Accurus preamp

RE: Here you go, posted on June 13, 2017 at 16:14:52

Kythyn
Audiophile

Posts: 57
Location: Florida
Joined: February 2, 2015

The Tympani IVs have arrived and are in their initial position 5' from the back wall. Pictures attached show the room setup in both casual listening and dedicated listening arrangements.

I am awaiting repair of the Adcom GTP-500 preamp to do the initial testing with the Adcom GFA-555. Then the Crown 5002VZ amplifier will be substituted for the Adcom amplifier once the Crown is converted from 240v to 120v.

I ask for your input in setup, positioning, room treatments and other topics that will enhance the listening experience. The goal, as always, is to hear the music as it was recorded.

RE: Here you go, posted on June 13, 2017 at 18:08:49

Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002

You need to get feet for your T IV, There are stainless steel brackets at hardware stores that you can use as their predrilled holes happen to coincide with the spacing of the holes in the TIV. Get 3 sets of feet (2 brackets each) for the bass panels and a pair of feet for the mid tweet panel.

Keep the mid tweet panel separate from the bass panels, take the hinges off once the legs are on. That will prevent intermodulation distortion from the bass panels shaking the mid and tweeter.

Once you have the legs on you can arrange the panels in an equidistant arc. The deep bass panel would then be put at the sidewalls and roughly perpendicular to it. That should be a good starting point.

.

RE: Here you go, posted on June 13, 2017 at 20:04:28
Kythyn Audiophile Posts: 57 Location: Florida Joined: February 2, 2015	I have the feet but only enough for four panels. There are no holes drilled in the outboard bass panels. When separating the mid/tweeter panel, should I unscrew the hinges from the frame or try to pull the hinge pins?

RE: Here you go, posted on June 13, 2017 at 20:14:18

Kythyn
Audiophile

Posts: 57
Location: Florida
Joined: February 2, 2015

I looked at the panels again and there are only holes for the feet drilled in the center panels. No holes at all in the mid/tweeter panel, and the holes that are there on the outboard bass panels are in the center of the panel rather than on the outside edges like on the center panel.

If I am going to separate the mid/tweeter panel, it looks like I need 4 more feet and then figure out where the holes are intended to be. These aren't new socks, so I am not sure why they wouldn't show up.

RE: Here you go, posted on June 13, 2017 at 22:10:56

Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002

Yes on the hinges the screws would come off entirely.

On my panels there are holes on the bottom for feet near the edges but they were not drilled through the fabric. you need to feel for them with your fingers. It is possible that your panels didn't have them drilled, but so far I have not found anyone with Tympani panels without the holes for feet on their edges. If they were not used then the fabric would not be perforated over them.

RE: Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room, posted on July 20, 2017 at 19:03:46

steve.sukiennik
Audiophile

Posts: 206
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Joined: May 23, 2017

Hay, great Question,
Having fiddled w/tympanis 4 decades, it's real simple 2 get 'em set up quickly & properly: Both sides should B perfectly flat w/each flat side toed in a few degrees. Tweeters on the other sides. Also when they look balanced visually they sound balanced & produce phenomenal BASS. Bass panels should NEVER be folded which causes bass cancellations. Of course (2-3) feet from rear wall. Think about it. How could it sound better w/uneven panel arrangements. Whether U agree or disagree: TRY IT. U'll B amazed.

RE: Here you go, posted on July 21, 2017 at 14:28:22

steve.sukiennik
Audiophile

Posts: 206
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Joined: May 23, 2017

Hay Satie,
U R absolutely measurement correct. Rite on.
The issue is which sounds clearer & clearer at load volumes.
I totally agree that separating the drivers w/separate amps performs way way better.
But the issue is 2 get the clearest sound 4 the least amount of $$$$..
U'r way is definitely better than the straight single amp route,
But does all that $$ spent sound clearer than spending all that (exact same amount of $$) on ONE higher quality top shelf amp.
It doesn't. Try it & U'll hear what I'm saying.
Mags on a $50K single amp will dust Mags on $50k worth of multiple cheaper amps.
A better arrangement cannot create more CLARITY. I agree it'll sound better & more controlled than w/o but not clearer than one single amp at the same price!!
Start naming products. I'm familiar w/most.
Sorry, no offense please.
BTW did U get my stretcher reply. It wouldn't accept it so I put it by U'r T-4a discussion.
Qty (2) 50k bi-amped would sound even more outstanding if audio is worth say $150k 2 us. WOW

Planar Speaker Asylum

Tympani IVs in a 12x 22 x9 room

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