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MMGs as a midwoofer, tweeter assembly.

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Posted on February 7, 2017 at 16:01:39
aceinc
Audiophile

Posts: 62
Location: Florida
Joined: February 7, 2017
 The following is a duplicate of a message I posted on the Audio Circle Planar group;

I am looking at building some main speakers for my HT system, which I also listen to music on. I currently switch between KEF 105.4s and B&W 802 Matrix S3s, depending on my mood.

My room is 15'x25'x8.5' untreated it sounds great with my existing speakers either 2 channel or 7.2. I can just get the front baffle 3' off the front wall and I can get 2-3 feet off the side walls.

My thought is to use as a base (bass) the Open Baffle dual 12" subwoofers available from GR-Research. The claim for this subsystem is 20-200Hz with authority.

The question then comes to what to use for 200-20,000hz. I currently have it narrowed(?) down to three choices;

Magnepan
GR-Research NX-Otica OB kit
Roll my own OB mid/tweet.

For the mid/tweet assembly, I was putting my max budget at $1,000, the cost of option 2. For Maggies that only leaves the MMG.

My post in this group is to get an opinion of using the MMGs to cover the mid-bass frequencies, with a crossover in the 100-200hz range.

My intention would be to build a mounting frame that would allow me to attach the MMG to the "top" of the OB woofer cabinet. The quotes around top, is because I could lay the cabinet horizontal which would make the height of the bottom of the MMG ~ 15" or vertical which would make the bottom of the MMG ~ 25" off the floor.

So the questions are;
Is an MMG up to the task? The folks on the GR-Research say that the NX-Otica would be substantially better. If the answer to this is no, then ignore the rest.
Should the MMG be modified, crossover wise?
What frequency should I cutoff the MMG on the low side? The lower the better, but no lower than 100hz
Would mounting it at a height of 15" off the floor or 25" be better?

I was ready to move forward with this plan until yesterday when I talked to Magnepan, and they told me that the MMG isn't worth using in this environment. They said I should use a .7 at a minimum and really I should scrap my idea and buy a 1.7.

 

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RE: MMGs as a midwoofer, tweeter assembly., posted on February 7, 2017 at 18:19:30
russ69
Audiophile

Posts: 951
Joined: December 13, 2009
 I will take a stab at it. No the MMG does not have a great tweeter section that would take a 3.6 or up. Those are great tweeters. So right off the bat your system would be limited. You'll also have trouble handing off the woofers much more than approximately 120 Hz. You'll be able to locate the woofer and a 12 inch may sound a bit heavy at higher frequencies.

 

RE: MMGs as a midwoofer, tweeter assembly., posted on February 7, 2017 at 19:08:31
Green Lantern
Audiophile

Posts: 16952
Location: San Diego, Ca
Joined: November 12, 2002
Contributor
  Since: June 17, 2003
 for a $1K I would look at preowned MG1.6s; they would fit that room quite well.

Even though the MMGs have the in-home trial I'm sure the folks in MN already know a room that size would swallow them up. If I'm not mistaken MMGs are going for $600, that would still leave you $400 for a fairly decent sub to mate up with them.









 

RE: MMGs as a midwoofer, tweeter assembly., posted on February 7, 2017 at 19:34:10
aceinc
Audiophile

Posts: 62
Location: Florida
Joined: February 7, 2017
 Well, the concept is to use the Open Baffle Servo Controlled Subwoofer system as the "woofer" for each MMG. Here is a look at what I call the "woofer section" of dipole solution;

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54875.0

I won't have a problem on the low end. Will the MMG energize a room this size at frequencies above 100hz?

I am not looking for Magnepan only solution. I am looking for a hybrid solution.

 

RE: MMGs as a midwoofer, tweeter assembly., posted on February 7, 2017 at 19:39:39
aceinc
Audiophile

Posts: 62
Location: Florida
Joined: February 7, 2017
 Supposedly the Open Baffle design of "woofer section" will allow frequencies up to 200 hz.

Having said that, how bad are the tweeters in the MMGs?

 

RE: MMGs as a midwoofer, tweeter assembly., posted on February 7, 2017 at 19:58:16
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12332
Joined: February 9, 2010
 They're anything but bad -- they're very good. But they aren't as good as the tweeters in the 1.7, which has a supertweeter, and they definitely aren't as good as the true ribbon tweeters in the 3.7 and 20.7, which are among the best tweeters ever made.

 

RE: MMGs as a midwoofer, tweeter assembly., posted on February 7, 2017 at 20:14:29
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12332
Joined: February 9, 2010
 I'd have to agree with Magnepan on this one. I've used the MMG's for home theater, and while they're wonderful speakers and of the great bargain in audio, but they really aren't home theater speakers -- they just don't like to play that loud. I've also gone to the opposite extreme and used Tympani 1-D's for home theater and they're the best home theater speaker I've ever used -- hell, I was working in motion picture audio at the time and they sounded better than what I heard in the mix room, because they combined high SPL's and good bass with the planar detail that adds so much to realism, and were pretty much indestructible to boot.

Of course I used my MMG's without subs and you can get more output from them with subs. Perhaps Davey will chime in -- he's paired his MMG's with built-in subs and can give you an idea of how much output he gets.

But my sense of your proposed system is that it's somewhat unbalanced, in that the GR OB subs are by reputation remarkable while the MMG is Magnepan's entry-level model. I think I'd be inclined to go with the 1.7's and add some good sealed subs, crossing them over lower, e.g., at 80 Hz. (The OB GR's will sound better but the sealed subs will go deeper and louder for I think a bit less, freeing up more money for the 1.7's.)

Also, I wouldn't be inclined to build the subs (whatever you use) into the speaker, because the best imaging and the best bass performance seldom happen in the same place, so it's advantageous to be able to position the subs independently.

 

RE: MMGs as a midwoofer, tweeter assembly., posted on February 8, 2017 at 10:44:57
DrChaos
Audiophile

Posts: 2063
Location: San Diego
Joined: July 13, 2009
 I would:

Get used 3.6's (or 3.7i's if you can afford it), combine them with high quality room correction & crossover for the subwoofers, and use this as your main music system.

Then use the B&W's for theatre.

 

RE: MMGs as a midwoofer, tweeter assembly., posted on February 8, 2017 at 11:17:17
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 I think the MMG are too small for your room. Your starting point in maggies has to be larger.

The used 1.6 go for just a bit above the new MMG. The 3A is usually less than $1k depending on condition, $500 to $800 typically. They often need some work when you get them or not too long after. But fully renovated ones do not sell for that much more than an aged stock pair. So if you are not feeling up to dealing with a repair, there is some chance of finding an updated 3A for under $1k.

These coupled with a pair of OB subwoofers is likely what you want. The MMG project you have in mind is going to underperform any setup with a physically separate woofer section and will not come close to what the 3A or even the 1.6 can do.

 

There's one (big) guy here who might chime in :), posted on February 9, 2017 at 07:21:51
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37593
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 He bi-amps his MMGs with Crown amps and reaches pretty heroic levels!

Follow his link for an output chart. :)

 

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