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New high power amp. Let the stoning begin :)

173.153.6.1
Posted on September 11, 2016 at 07:26:15
RickeyM
Audiophile

Posts: 2208
Location: East Coast
Joined: March 15, 2003
 I bought a Vintage amp for my MG-2.5-R's a couple of weeks ago. Not only is it Vintage, it is a Pro-Audio amp (GASP) as well. The new-to-me amp is a BGW 750C. I'll not start making wild claims and such, but this amp is just a very clean, neutral sounding amp. I came across a deal, I went for it and I'm glad I did. Being transparent here, I did do a few mods :) . What I'm really jazzed about is hearing my Maggies with this much power driving them. I had tried a Crown XLS1500 but it just didn't have any slam. I had a McCormack DNA 0.5 Deluxe Edition once and it was a great sounding amp. I just felt that it didn't have enough power to make my Maggies give their best. The big BGW has enough headroom to keep everything nice and tight sounding. It has that effortless quality to it. Like it's just faithfully amplifying what ever you give it and not having to work hard while doing it. Owing to it's heritage, it's not as fancy looking as other amps out there so maybe I'll doll it up with a nice wood case.
Whaddaya think?

 

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RE: New high power amp. Let the stoning begin :), posted on September 11, 2016 at 10:14:21
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 Since you had a DNA 0.5 which is quite refined while playing within its capacity, how did the BGW compare on the fine points in the mids and treble? That is where pro audio amps are usually thin and lose harmonic content or sound rough and grainy. There are plenty of good sounding pro amps that you can use at home.

All for having good solid power on a maggie well beyond the calculated requirement.

 

RE: New high power amp. Let the stoning begin :), posted on September 11, 2016 at 16:37:48
RickeyM
Audiophile

Posts: 2208
Location: East Coast
Joined: March 15, 2003
 The McCormack had a bit more detail than the BGW. A bit more of that top end "airiness" if you will. The BGW gives you some of that air around instruments but the McCormack has the edge there. The amp that immediately preceded the BGW is a Yamaha MX-830 and the BGW bests that in SQ as well as having a couple hundred watts per channel more to boot.
Now I have to mention that the IC's in use now are different than I used with the DNA so that might account for the difference. I going to swap the previous IC's back in and do some more listening.
If I haven't said it before, I'll say it now. The BGW is very "neutral" sounding. Very balanced sounding from top to bottom. No unpleasantness in the mids or treble at all.

 

RE: New high power amp. Let the stoning begin :), posted on September 12, 2016 at 00:58:10
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 Though it is often an area where ICs can have an influence, amps differ there more substantially than audiophile ICs do.

Thanks for the description, I am just not particularly familiar with the BGW line but auditioned the McCormack line in its heyday. I thought the DNAs were far better on top than top linear Crowns and Brystons, not to speak of Peavey and a few other discount brands that sounded just plain awful. Those were thin and harmonically threadbare.

 

RE: New high power amp. Let the stoning begin :), posted on September 12, 2016 at 09:38:19
steven d
Audiophile

Posts: 453
Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: June 21, 2002
 I'm not surprised at all by your findings. High-power amps, IMO, bring out the best of Maggies when you want transients, dynamics, and control at higher listening levels.

I also had a McCormack DNA amplifier on hand for a month or so. This was the DNA-500. It drove my 2.5s effortlessly- no strain, no compression. It was like a Mercedes engine being asked to go faster and faster: it said OK, I can do that for you. The DNA-500 was harmonically quite rich and had a wonderful tone, and had all that "airiness" audiophiles approve of. The only reason I didn't go ahead and make it my own was, due it's quite low input impedance of 10 KOhms, the bass rolled off a bit too early in my system. It was much easier for me to look for another amp (for which a contender was waiting in the wings) then to borrow/trial other preamps.

Like Satie, I also tried a Crown XLS1500 and my impressions were similar. It just lacked slam; a bit too lean in the bass. It was clean and transparent enough though. They do an admirable job on subwoofer duty to me - quick, tactile bass from the two 8" isobaric drivers.

The amp that was in the wings eventually became a permanent component of the system is the MC2 Audio MC750, a pro amp from the UK. Well-balanced tonality, ample power and headroom; it simply presents all the music to you.

Keep on enjoying your BGW and don't let anyone rain on your parade!

 

No stoning..., posted on September 12, 2016 at 10:46:08
grantv
Manufacturer

Posts: 7728
Location: B.C.
Joined: January 15, 2002
 If your ears are happy, that's all that matters. I've never heard that exact amp in that system, so I can't judge. :)
Enjoy. I love loads of power into my 3.6's

 

RE: New high power amp. Let the stoning begin :), posted on September 12, 2016 at 10:55:44
dromney
Audiophile

Posts: 244
Location: Dallas
Joined: September 9, 2010
 Sounds like you are loving it, so that is what matters the most. Plus, I agree, more power makes a big difference.

 

RE: New high power amp. Let the stoning begin :), posted on September 12, 2016 at 13:32:01
russ69
Audiophile

Posts: 951
Joined: December 13, 2009
 My local dealer used BGW amps back in the day. Looking for more power for the big Infinity loudspeaker systems of the day.

 

RE: New high power amp. Let the stoning begin :), posted on September 12, 2016 at 16:38:58
Norman M
 It appears to me that the BGW 750C has a fan. How loud is it? Or can it be heard during quiet passages from your usual seating position?

 

An amp can make you loose sleep! , posted on September 13, 2016 at 06:23:25
RickeyM
Audiophile

Posts: 2208
Location: East Coast
Joined: March 15, 2003
 As in "I'll listen just a couple more songs and then I'll go to bed " =^)

 

RE: New high power amp. Let the stoning begin :), posted on September 13, 2016 at 07:15:06
RickeyM
Audiophile

Posts: 2208
Location: East Coast
Joined: March 15, 2003
 Wow, that's a beast of am amp. That is can also deliver the goods SQ wise is a big plus as well. BTW, I see we use the same TT as well ;)

 

RE: New high power amp. Let the stoning begin :), posted on September 13, 2016 at 17:40:30
steven d
Audiophile

Posts: 453
Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: June 21, 2002
 My understanding of the MC series is they were designed to for the studio to drive mains and mastering monitors so they kinda have to deliver on the sonic level. My very initial impressions came AFTER spending a couple weeks with the DNA-500. I like the bass from the MC750 but all else seemed a bit dry; however, after listening to it for a couple more days and then weeks I started to realize the virtue of this amp was it simply put the music in front of you - no artificially created stage through phase tricks, no airy top end (which I find cool but not real). That is seems, also, to sound better as it plays louder is a bonus ;)

I'll send you a pic of what I've done to my 1200.

 

RE: New high power amp. Let the stoning begin :), posted on September 13, 2016 at 18:56:55
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 I would be curious too, I run a 1600 II

 

Update, posted on September 14, 2016 at 06:18:46
RickeyM
Audiophile

Posts: 2208
Location: East Coast
Joined: March 15, 2003
 A couple of updates. First yes, the fan is loud. Loud enough for two amps loud. I tried to slow it down and hush it a bit by adding a resistor to it's wiring but that didn't do much. I'm ordering a quieter fan that looks like a drop in replacement.
I reinstalled some DIY interconnects I used before in place of the Monster M550i IC's and it was quite a nice improvement. Like having a pair of eyeglasses that had gradually become dusty and then you marvel at how clearly you see once they've been properly cleaned.
In the spirit of disclosure, this amp isn't completely stock anymore. I've replaced one of the recommended four caps to upgrade in the amp modules and added bypass caps. I've added bypass caps to the power supply caps, swapped in RCA jacks in place of the 1/4" input jacks and added a much beefier powercord with a Rhodium plated plug.

All in all, I'm happy with the amp. So instead of fretting over what could be better, I think it's time for some listening enjoyment. ;^)

 

RE: Update, posted on September 14, 2016 at 09:58:54
Norman M
 "All in all, I'm happy with the amp. So instead of fretting over what could be better, I think it's time for some listening enjoyment. ;^)"

Long ago at the time of their release, I had two 'audiophile' amps whose fan's noise bugged the hell out of me: GAS Ampzillas I and II, although II was less noisy than I, perhaps GAS received many complaints about their fan noise and also (the late) Mr. James Bongiorno was out of the picture by the time of # II. Listeners have resorted to putting amps with noisy fans inside a closet and then shutting the door or inside an adjacent room.

"Fire Bad", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nApazedQ7-E
In like manner I say Fan Bad.




 

RE: Update, posted on September 14, 2016 at 12:09:27
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 I need to get quieter fans for my Crown too. I asked the shop to get me quieter fans but what they gave me is noisier than ever. Turns out part of my repair was to the thermal control circuit which got cooked so would not raise the fan speed in proportion to the heat fast enough. Thus I was happily in a fool's paradise till the heat cooked the entire thermal board on one channel. The fans are now running properly and take their time after the loud passages to go back to silence. So more fan noise than I am comfortable with.
Building 25 ft cables so I can put the damn amp outside the room. Will have to think about the bal ICs too.

Well, you are fixing what is usually weak points in a pro audio amp with those bypass caps connectors etc. .

 

RE: Update, posted on September 14, 2016 at 12:32:26
russ69
Audiophile

Posts: 951
Joined: December 13, 2009
 Fans were not a problem when we all spun records. The surface noise covered the fan noise. The CD is the reason I only buy fan-less amps today.

 

RE: Update, posted on September 14, 2016 at 14:31:46
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 My LPs don't have anything like that level of noise. Never have save for a select super scratched up that were faves back when I had a BIC changer..

 

RE: I think you've drunk the digital cool-aid! :-)) ..., posted on September 14, 2016 at 15:49:11
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12551
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 Since I clean my LPs with a wet/vac machine, I have many which show no noise at all. You would swear you were listening to a CD ... 'xept of course, it sounds much better! :-))

Andy

 

You guys, posted on September 14, 2016 at 20:43:13
RickeyM
Audiophile

Posts: 2208
Location: East Coast
Joined: March 15, 2003
 :)

 

RE: Update, posted on September 14, 2016 at 20:54:31
RickeyM
Audiophile

Posts: 2208
Location: East Coast
Joined: March 15, 2003
 Back when I had a Behringer, I swapped out the fan for a quieter one. Wacky as it seems, the fan was even quieter when I mounted it on the outside of the rear panel, blowing in. It seems that there was some weird resonance the fan put out that the inside of the amp housing magnifying.

 

RE: Update, posted on September 15, 2016 at 05:03:10
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 That is an interesting situation. on the immediate action side I am trying out a lower Q XO and lowering the bass level so that I have less lower bass energy to drive into the bass panels. Thus hopefully less busy fans (and less bulbous bottom octave bass prominence).

 

Update: Quiet fan, posted on September 17, 2016 at 18:11:11
RickeyM
Audiophile

Posts: 2208
Location: East Coast
Joined: March 15, 2003
 I got the new fan today. It's marketed as a "low speed" quieter fan. It should be a drop-in plug-in replacement. I'll post back on the results.

 

RE: Update: Quiet fan, posted on September 18, 2016 at 06:49:44
atkin11j@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 97
Location: Nashville, TN
Joined: December 29, 2007
 My Ashly FTX had a factory AC fan that was noisy. I replaced it with a super quiet DC computer fan and just used an ac adapter to run it. This eliminated any motor activity from the amps power circuit.

 

RE: Update: Quiet fan, posted on September 18, 2016 at 07:13:38
RickeyM
Audiophile

Posts: 2208
Location: East Coast
Joined: March 15, 2003
 "eliminated any motor activity from the amps power circuit", interesting. I saw some fans that came with power cords but when I saw this one that the factory wiring would plug directly into, I went this way instead. On the BGW, the fan is wired to the AC input. If there's a fault that won't let the amp play and it doesn't trip the circuit breaker, the fan still spins. I wonder if externally powering the fan like you did would affect the SQ the way the BGW is set up?

 

RE: Update: Quiet fan, posted on September 18, 2016 at 07:23:34
Norman M
 A quiet fan is a dead fan.

 

RE: Update: Quiet fan, posted on September 18, 2016 at 17:07:14
atkin11j@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 97
Location: Nashville, TN
Joined: December 29, 2007
 On the contrary. There are a number of computer fans out there that move a surprising amount of air with little to no noise.

I also think about the cooling in a pro amp. The fan has to cool the amp when it is being driven very hard for long periods of time. In a home audio listening environment that isn't usually the case. So even using a fan with a little less cfm than a factory unit should still work out ok.

 

Update: Update, posted on September 24, 2016 at 10:20:04
RickeyM
Audiophile

Posts: 2208
Location: East Coast
Joined: March 15, 2003
 The new fan is installed and boy what a difference. The original fan was like a blow dryer on "high". The new one is like a table fan across the room. Noticeable but not really objectionable. Since I don't do any listening to quiet orchestral works, I can live with it :)

 

RE: Update: Quiet fan, posted on September 24, 2016 at 12:57:22
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 That did not turn out to be the case for me. The fan works hard when driving the bass panels. I would not take down the air displacement rating to get more quiet. I already had the amp burn out its own thermal control circuitry and go in for repair.

 

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