Tympani T-IV

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 27, 2016 at 11:07:33
jrdoe Audiophile Posts: 114 Joined: April 14, 2015	Apples/Oranges, huh...? Very helpful.

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 27, 2016 at 12:00:10
6bq5 Audiophile Posts: 4390 Location: SF Bay Joined: August 16, 2001	I think the point of the reply is - there is no equal to the Magnaplanar products- Yes, you can get __ speaker, but it is not what the T-IV can deliver... Happy Listening

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 27, 2016 at 12:19:35

jrdoe
Audiophile

Posts: 114
Joined: April 14, 2015

Thanks. But both the latest 3.7i and T-IV are Maggies. I'm just curious if 30+yr old Maggies are worth the investment, or is a set of 3.7i will outperform them from the advancements that Magnepan has made in the intervening decades.

Obviously the T-IV's are MUCH bigger, so would expect better base response. So mostly wondering about the mid/highs, and any big concerns/cost in maintaining these.

Thanks again.

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 27, 2016 at 12:44:08
6bq5 Audiophile Posts: 4390 Location: SF Bay Joined: August 16, 2001	My only answer is that after 40 + years of dynamic speakers, I now own 3 pair of quad '57s 2 are operating and the third for insurance.... Things change, but not that much... Happy Listening

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 27, 2016 at 12:48:58
jrdoe Audiophile Posts: 114 Joined: April 14, 2015	Sheesh... How about this analogy, then... Ever compared your ESL 57's to the latest Quad's?

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 27, 2016 at 14:31:23

Desafinado
Audiophile

Posts: 183
Location: Alberta
Joined: March 10, 2013

According to Sheila at Magnepan there were 452 sets of Tympani IVa built in their roughly 6 year history which ended in 1991. How many sets do you think still exist?

Unless you know of a specific set currently for sale, and close enough to pick up to avoid the inevitable shipping damage, your question may be moot.

In my case a 3100 mile round trip was required to obtain a set of T-IVA.
At the time I was breaking in a pair of MG 3.7 that were sounding great.
After only a few minutes of listening it was apparent that the 3.7s could not match the Tympani for sheer presence. They are simply majestic.
My 3.7s went up for sale with no regrets.

The 3.7i are improved no doubt- I have not heard them.
Given the chance to buy the Tympani IVa don't hesitate. If not to your liking you should easily find a buyer. This will ensure that you never suffer from the dreaded "what if" syndrome.

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 27, 2016 at 14:43:19

Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002

There is no new technology in the 3.7 so far as I know. It is just a more refined and more coherent speaker then its predecessors.

The TIV and IVa are in a different class. They make 3.x models seem a bit toy like. The appropriate comparison is the 20.1 or 20.7.

Structurally, the separate mid/tweeter panel makes for an advantage in clarity that is very significant compared to any single unit speaker.

The investment in maintenance is peanuts compared to what you get. The potential of the TIV IVa speaker with mods and bracing is for a top notch speaker comparable to a flagship model from one of the well regarded high end names and likely exceeding them in some aspects. The only real missing ingredient in a fully tweaked out TIV is the bottom octave extension and dynamics. In a larger room it needs subwoofers.

The midrange is not as good as that of the 20.1 and 20.7 but can be replaced with a line of BG Neo8 drivers as I have done. The crossover can be modified to make better use of the Neo drivers and relieve the tweeter from some burden. With a linear phase 1st order crossover and time alignment of the drivers performance and coherence is amazing In this way I have managed to obtain a speaker that competes well with some of the Stereophile Class A full range speakers like the Focal Nova Utopia, the Magico Q5 the Wilson WATT/Puppy based designs, the Revel Studio and Salon and the larger Vandersteens, .

.

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 27, 2016 at 14:44:52
jrdoe Audiophile Posts: 114 Joined: April 14, 2015	Now we're getting somewhere. Thank you for the direct comparison and your opinion. These are only 20mi away... If the seller doesn't have second thoughts or want a ridiculous price for them, I'll probably bite. Though I really don't have the room, and the wife may not be too happy about it... :) Oh, and these are IV's, not IVa's. Doesn't appear there's much difference, though. Thanks again.

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 27, 2016 at 14:47:32
jrdoe Audiophile Posts: 114 Joined: April 14, 2015	Ummmm....now I'm getting nervous the seller will back out. Wow! I can't wait to hear these. Thank you!

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 27, 2016 at 15:10:42

Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002

There are some differences.

The mylar on the TIV mids is the same as the 3.7. While the Mylar on the IVa is half as thick like what is in the 20.7 mids. Not material if you are going to replace the mids anyway.

The bass panels on the IVa are slightly more efficient so you might get away with a 1kw bass amp while you might tax it on a TIV.

The other remaining diffeerence is that the mids on the IVa are longer and the crossover tuned 1/2 an octave lower.

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 27, 2016 at 15:19:54
jrdoe Audiophile Posts: 114 Joined: April 14, 2015	OK, now you're just trying to make me nervous....1kW isn't enough! Holy Shi!

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 27, 2016 at 15:25:39
Satie Audiophile Posts: 5426 Joined: July 6, 2002	What can I say? I play loud. The figure is for 4 ohms I use 2.5kw at 4 ohms and have strained the amp a bit. If you have a smaller space you will not need the power on a continuous basis. An amp rated over 500W at 4 ohms and having a couple db dynamic headroom should do fine.

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 27, 2016 at 15:32:16
jrdoe Audiophile Posts: 114 Joined: April 14, 2015	Tell me about this Neo 8...did you build these? Are parts available? Quick search found eBay parts, but not much else. i'm getting ahead of myself, I know. Hopefully no jinx. Crossed fingers. And toes!

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 27, 2016 at 15:40:15
jrdoe Audiophile Posts: 114 Joined: April 14, 2015	Did you ever see the posts from the guy with the IV panels for mid-bass, some Martin Logan for the mid (I forget which one), and an Emminent Tech fan sub custom built below his room that goes flat to 1Hz? WTF? Is there any music that would even use that sub? Sounds unbelievable, though. I want it!

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 27, 2016 at 16:11:17

Norman M

"Thanks. But both the latest 3.7i and T-IV are Maggies

I had it in the back of mind that you/someone might write that and my intended reply is that apples and oranges are both fruits, but they can't be compared.

Perhaps one can compare the 6 panel Tympanis having true ribbons, and similarly 3.X speakers. Having both T IV-As and the 3.6, there's such a night and day difference between the two, that they can't stand comparison. (I don't even know where I would attempt to begin.)

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 27, 2016 at 16:18:04

Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002

He posted his setup on the forum - the bass setup is a major project and required excavation of an underground transmission line bass loading system. The ESLs were Sequels IIRC..

The Neo8 are back on the market after having been unobtainable for a couple of years. You would want 6 per side. Not a small investment but it is a world class midrange driver.

Whatever your plans are, the TIV is a really very good large scale speaker with mod potential to levels you would not believe possible. Just be sure the speakers you are buying are in good condition commensurate with the asking price. Having a local pickup is just an incredible opportunity. Mine were shipped across the country.

https://www.parts-express.com/bohlender-graebener-neo8-plana

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 27, 2016 at 16:24:23
jrdoe Audiophile Posts: 114 Joined: April 14, 2015	OK, well thanks anyway. Satie has me covered. Same tech, and lots of follow-on with specific differences, upgrade possibilities, etc.

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 27, 2016 at 16:28:51
jrdoe Audiophile Posts: 114 Joined: April 14, 2015	Awesome. Wish me luck. No reply from the potential seller, yet. I'd love these like a baby, if you're following, seller! :) Anyway, if I do get them, I'll have plenty of questions about a NEO8 setup, amps, etc. Thanks very much, Satie. Wonderful advice and information. Best regards.

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 27, 2016 at 16:51:32
Satie Audiophile Posts: 5426 Joined: July 6, 2002	I wish you luck!!! and will be available to help as you tread up the upgrade path.

RE: Tympani T-IV or any Tympani are very special, posted on May 28, 2016 at 01:14:54
contiguous1 Audiophile Posts: 7 Location: AU Southern Joined: March 20, 2016	I have a set of the TIV's and they compare favourably with any current model. In my opinion the separate panels makes for a better sound experience than either the 3s or 20s. I have heard the T1D, 3.7i and the 20.7 . Mine are just going in for a refurb and that's not surprising given their age. Satie is right the refurb is peanuts considering the performance that you get. Maggies Tympani IV's

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 28, 2016 at 08:01:14
Norman M	"The midrange is not as good as that of the 20.1 and 20.7 but can be replaced with a line of BG Neo8 drivers as I have done." So are you doing the equivalent of comparing two Ford models with each other, one of which has a Lexus engine?

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 28, 2016 at 10:43:55
Satie Audiophile Posts: 5426 Joined: July 6, 2002	Well, I guess I am. The Push pull driver in the 20.x models is definitely a better performer than the Tympani mids and 3.x mids particularly by not compressing at even rather loud levels. The BG Neo8 are no different so can be substituted easily in the TIV models and compared. I think it is a worthwhile effort to compare and the alternative is no info.

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 28, 2016 at 10:59:26
Roger Gustavsson Audiophile Posts: 2058 Location: Huskvarna Joined: February 12, 2010	jrdoe wrote: "Oh, and these are IV's, not IVa's. Doesn't appear there's much difference, though." There are differences. Only the ribbons are the same, almost. Early T-IVa had identical ribbons, later replaced with the 2 Ohm+resistor. Bass drivers have different placement of the buttons, tuning too. Mids are shorter in the IV. Crossovers are different. The IV had a short production run.

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 29, 2016 at 07:07:25
Green Lantern Audiophile Posts: 16952 Location: San Diego, Ca Joined: November 12, 2002 Contributor Since: June 17, 2003	A pair of 1Ds just popped up on my radar for sale.

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 29, 2016 at 07:47:16

Roger Gustavsson
Audiophile

Posts: 2058
Location: Huskvarna
Joined: February 12, 2010

Satie wrote: " He posted his setup on the forum - the bass setup is a major project and required excavation of an underground transmission line bass loading system. The ESLs were Sequels IIRC.."

Are you refering to mmlrot1?

http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?
forum=mug&n=199451&highlight=tympani+iv+mmlrot1&search_url=%2Fcgi%2Fsearch.mpl%3Fsearchtext%3DTurntable%2Bhum%26SelectForumvinyl%3Dvinyl

http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=mug&n=199454&highlight=tympani+iv+mmlrot1&search_url=%2Fcgi%2Fsearch.mpl%3Fsearchtext%3DTurntable%2Bhum%26SelectForumvinyl%3Dvinyl

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 29, 2016 at 08:04:46
mmlrot1 Audiophile Posts: 99 Joined: June 10, 2011	The Tympani T-IV and Eminent Technology sub create an unbeatable combination for stellar bass! As Satie has said many times the T-IV panels should be braced (I still maintain that the two panels should also be "bolted together" for even better defined bass. Rigidity of the panels makes a big improvement.

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 29, 2016 at 08:49:38
jrdoe Audiophile Posts: 114 Joined: April 14, 2015	Well, sadly (for me, anyway), the seller decided to hang onto the TIV's. That's OK. I'll enjoy what I have for now. Thanks for all of the help, everyone.

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 29, 2016 at 08:55:04
jrdoe Audiophile Posts: 114 Joined: April 14, 2015	FYI, the seller is a super nice guy. I think he feels bad about getting me excited to buy these. No worries. You probably saved me an argument with the wife! :)

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 29, 2016 at 14:05:54
Satie Audiophile Posts: 5426 Joined: July 6, 2002	Well, go listen to them if they are being demoe'd.

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 29, 2016 at 17:03:15
slapshot Audiophile Posts: 2248 Joined: January 9, 2006	I agree. Then you could have your GMMGs, your 20s, and Tympani's all side by side in your room! What more could you ask for? :)

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 29, 2016 at 19:52:15
Satie Audiophile Posts: 5426 Joined: July 6, 2002	MORE ROOM

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 29, 2016 at 19:54:17
Green Lantern Audiophile Posts: 16952 Location: San Diego, Ca Joined: November 12, 2002 Contributor Since: June 17, 2003	always room for one (or two) more

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 29, 2016 at 20:45:22
jrdoe Audiophile Posts: 114 Joined: April 14, 2015	It's possible you have a problem...

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 29, 2016 at 22:03:41
Satie Audiophile Posts: 5426 Joined: July 6, 2002	The pic is the maggie doc's room, he repairs maggies professionally in Germany. Though his personal collection of maggies is not that haphazard.

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 29, 2016 at 22:26:18

BDP24
Audiophile

Posts: 1070
Location: Vancouver, Washington
Joined: September 12, 2013

For me, a big difference is that the "new" Quads (starting with the 63) are point source speakers. I do not like a point source, much preferring the line source, or at a least large panel. To me, a point source makes music sound like it is being squeezed through the hole left by a brick missing from the middle of a big wall, to use a metaphor.

The 63 and later Quads are suppose to provide more output than the 57, but don't really to a significant enough degree. If one wants an ESL that plays at realistic SPL, Quad is not for you (maybe the Sanders, I don't know). That's why, though I have 57's, they could never be my only speaker; I like AC/DC too much! The other reason the 63 and later Quads have not made the 57 obsolete is that they lost something the 57 has in spades---that "in the room", "standing right in front of you" quality the 57 has. Utter transparency, still unsurpassed after all this time. I listen to a lot of singing, harmony being about my favorite thing in music (after a great chord progression, thank you J.S. Bach and Brian Wilson). Nothing is better at vocals than the 57, and few other speakers even come close.

I'm late arriving at the party, and luckily it looks like the NEO 8 will soon become again available, so I will hopefully be as pleased with Saties T-IV/NEO 8 creation as he is!

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 30, 2016 at 09:00:57
Green Lantern Audiophile Posts: 16952 Location: San Diego, Ca Joined: November 12, 2002 Contributor Since: June 17, 2003	I'd add he's a pleasant guy as well.

RE: Tympani T-IV, posted on May 30, 2016 at 13:42:33
Norman M	It could also be that of a maggie-patient. In asylum parlance it's known as MM (Maggie mania). I think both you and other inmates suffer from it, as do I (with three models in house). Feeding them could become costly.

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