Planar Speaker Asylum

Welcome! Need support, you got it. Or share your ideas and experiences.

Return to Planar Speaker Asylum

Message Sort: Post Order or Asylum Reverse Threaded

50w powering gunned 1.6s, am I crazy?

50.53.12.69
Posted on May 14, 2016 at 16:53:06
Enchantment1.6s
Audiophile

Posts: 902
Location: Portland Oregon
Joined: August 10, 2002
 I've been off the forum for a few years now. I had to sell most of my gear (all my Ayre stuff) for financial reasons, but kept the 1.6s, well... .because!

Well the past week was my birthday and my dear husband surprised me with a PS Audio Sprout integrated amp/DAC. It's not the most powerful thing ever... 50w at 4ohm... but some googling showed a few people had tried them with Maggies.. including a reviewer who ran his 1.7s with it.

I know the gunned maggies have no fuse which freaks me out a bit!! But the sprout is supposed to be a bit over-protective of itself, If I read write it shuts itself down at the first sign of clipping or over running.

The sound is stunningly wonderous! It may be because I haven't had a system for so long, but it sounds more involved and alive than the Ayre did. Sure it's not as clean in the highs... but the bass is better and the soundstage is better, and playing high resolution files.... I'm in musical heaven.

So far I've been able to play things at pretty dang loud levels and not a peep from the sprout... it doesn't even get warm to touch.

So am I crazy for using it? Or is it just fine? Anyone else used one?




My Photos

 

Hide full thread outline!
    ...
RE: 50w powering gunned 1.6s, am I crazy?, posted on May 15, 2016 at 07:35:39
Green Lantern
Audiophile

Posts: 16952
Location: San Diego, Ca
Joined: November 12, 2002
Contributor
  Since: June 17, 2003
 Great to hear you're getting good results! Class D's have come a long way it seems. Not sure how much bass you'll get but a decent sub should fill in the gap. S'phile gave it a great review.

Makes me seriously regret selling my Bel Cantos; since I never really gave them a chance on the top end of my Maggies.









 

RE: 50w powering gunned 1.6s, am I crazy?, posted on May 15, 2016 at 09:36:00
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 You are not nuts.

The sprout is a well regarded little integrated with enough power if you don't play loud. You are not required to play any louder than you want to.

 

It's actually quite a lot of bass, posted on May 15, 2016 at 12:07:55
Enchantment1.6s
Audiophile

Posts: 902
Location: Portland Oregon
Joined: August 10, 2002
 at least in the range that 1.6s can produce. I've a few songs that have really low register bass that 1.6s just aren't going to produce no matter what they're hooked up to. It's not typically music I listen to on them... more of a downstairs on the HT rig, super loud while cleaning house thing lol.

I mostly cant believe I railed against digital music streaming in high end for so long. I loaded up a playlist of 96/24 and 192/24 albums last night and sat for some 4 hours in some weird happy music trance, something I never did with the prior setup.




My Photos

 

RE: It's actually quite a lot of bass, posted on May 15, 2016 at 14:25:45
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 You are not exactly streaming lossy MP3s. I don't see what would be wrong with 24/96 and up.

What sites do you stream from?

 

RE: 50w powering gunned 1.6s, am I crazy?, posted on May 16, 2016 at 09:04:29
Davey
 That's a "great" review? John found numerous less-than-good measurements relative to decent amplifiers.
You need only look at Figure 1 of his testing to rule it out as a serious amplifier for a serious music system.

Dave.

 

RE: 50w powering gunned 1.6s, am I crazy?, posted on May 16, 2016 at 10:25:57
russ69
Audiophile

Posts: 951
Joined: December 13, 2009
 While it's not a set-up I would consider, the one thing audiophiles often overlook is system enjoyment. If you are getting listenable results that is the most important thing. Measurements are fine but the system has to be enjoyable first and foremost.

 

RE: 50w powering gunned 1.6s, am I crazy?, posted on May 16, 2016 at 12:43:34
Norman M
 Alternatively, and if possible I might just try to hear what it is that some listeners are raving about. (Not implying that I ever bought a Tice Clock.)

 

The Sprout has some bass EQ in it, posted on May 16, 2016 at 16:37:57
DrChaos
Audiophile

Posts: 2063
Location: San Diego
Joined: July 13, 2009
I believe the Sprout has some bass frequency boost intentionally in it.

http://www.psaudio.com/forum/sprout-forum/sprout-bass-bloat/

 

RE: The Sprout has some bass EQ in it, posted on May 16, 2016 at 17:23:51
Davey
 Yep, I noted that in my reference above to Figure 1 of the Stereophile measurements.
In my opinion it's nonsensical to use an amp like this on a terrific set of speakers like the 1.6's.
What is the point.

Dave.

 

RE: 50w powering gunned 1.6s, am I crazy?, posted on May 17, 2016 at 06:48:32
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 I think the big 50hz bump is the key to understanding why it is so popular. It gets you to run the system at a lower volume. Most mini monitors and low priced speakers have falling output below 60-80hz so listeners tend to lift overall volume to get above the threshold bass levels for sufficient bass content, by getting the small speaker response combined with the sprout you get enough bass without having to play that loud overall.

Not legit but effective. The HD dirt in the amp is also not a positive but the levels are low enough for the most part and IMD is actually better than it used to be for cheap class D amps.

That said I do not at all understand from these measurements why the amp would sound good.

 

RE: 50w powering gunned 1.6s, am I crazy?, posted on May 17, 2016 at 07:49:27
Davey
 I don't think the bass bump (it's actually not at 50Hz) is really the primary issue. Actually it's the extreme high-pass filter characteristic below that.
A legitimate full-range system like the 1.6's mated with an amplifier with this characteristic is nonsensical.

That type of bass-boost nonsense is what they used to do thirty years ago to fake people into thinking their speakers had more bass than they really do.

I'm not a fan of PSAudio and this is a perfect example why. :)

Dave.

 

RE: The Sprout has some bass EQ in it, posted on May 17, 2016 at 19:35:30
Green Lantern
Audiophile

Posts: 16952
Location: San Diego, Ca
Joined: November 12, 2002
Contributor
  Since: June 17, 2003
 In my opinion it's nonsensical to use an amp like this on a terrific set of speakers like the 1.6's


As the OP noted it was a gift from her husband- I'm sure he meant well.









 

RE: The Sprout has some bass EQ in it, posted on May 17, 2016 at 19:44:46
Davey
 I'm sure he did too, but that's beside the point.

Dave.

 

but...., posted on May 17, 2016 at 20:53:26
Green Lantern
Audiophile

Posts: 16952
Location: San Diego, Ca
Joined: November 12, 2002
Contributor
  Since: June 17, 2003
 she seems to think otherwise:

"The sound is stunningly wonderous! It may be because I haven't had a system for so long, but it sounds more involved and alive than the Ayre did. Sure it's not as clean in the highs... but the bass is better and the soundstage is better, and playing high resolution files.... I'm in musical heaven"









 

understood. NT, posted on May 17, 2016 at 22:01:43
Davey
 .

 

RE: understood. NT, posted on May 18, 2016 at 01:26:06
tedtag
Audiophile

Posts: 43
Location: Southeast US
Joined: May 1, 2015
 I'm assuming by "gunned" you mean Peter Gunn alias John Kruczek in Pennsylvania. He states that after his mods, the efficiency of gunned Maggies goes up to over 90 db so they should be much easier to drive. I recently got a pair of Gunned MMG's and based on the way they perform, I believe him. I was driving them with ease using a 60 watt Conrad Johnson stereo amp and it sounded great. Then I switched to my CJ Premier 8's mono blocks with 300 Watts each and that really woke them up! Hope you have fun and enjoy the system.

 

RE: understood. NT, posted on May 18, 2016 at 05:48:24
Davey
 Ask John to provide you with a proper free-field measurement that shows nominal 90db sensitivity over the full range of the speaker.

Dave.

 

RE: but...., posted on May 18, 2016 at 10:12:48
DrChaos
Audiophile

Posts: 2063
Location: San Diego
Joined: July 13, 2009
 The underlying amp is an Abletec class D, one of the most modern class D to be developed and is supposedly very good sounding.

The high pass (eliminating frequencies the maggies wouldn't do well at) and bass boost may not be so bad for a 1.6 in some rooms.

Not as good as a real measurement & EQ system, but not necessarily terrible.

I think it may emphasize the 1st overtone of some very low instruments which would sound as 'texture' perhaps.

 

RE: but...., posted on May 19, 2016 at 20:28:44
Green Lantern
Audiophile

Posts: 16952
Location: San Diego, Ca
Joined: November 12, 2002
Contributor
  Since: June 17, 2003
 As fate would have it I'm expecting a Class D amp via UPS tomorrow. It's a ICEpowered pair of 500w mono blocks I found on Agon recently. Gonna burn em' in this weekend. The plan is to run em' off the top end while my Emotivas continue on the bottom.

I'm looking at having another Maggie day in the next few weeks; hope you can make it over this time.









 

RE: but...., posted on May 19, 2016 at 20:38:48
DrChaos
Audiophile

Posts: 2063
Location: San Diego
Joined: July 13, 2009
 Cool. wonder if it might be better the other way around?

 

RE: As Russ stated ... , posted on May 23, 2016 at 04:59:24
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12550
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 Enjoying the result is key. :-))

However, while the Sprout may be a beautiful-sounding amplifier, I suggest its 50w may not be allowing your Gunned 1.6s to deliver the best sound they are capable of.

How much power you need depends on what style of music you listen to - 'simple' music like Diana Krall (or many other chanteuses) ... or more complex music like opera, harpsichord or, for example, 'Dead Can Dance' or Jean-Michel Jarre (which have multiple 'layers' of music).

If the latter then an amp which sounded identical to your Sprout but was able to put out 300wpc, say, would enable your 1.6s to deliver more (leading edge of transients, in particular).


Regards,

Andy


 

RE: 50w powering gunned 1.6s, am I crazy?, posted on May 24, 2016 at 18:47:15
farfetched
Audiophile

Posts: 963
Location: Cleveland!
Joined: October 13, 2010
 I'm on board with you. I recently had to ditch my $$$ 250 wpc separates, and get an old audiolab 8000 out of the attic -- 50 wpc, little brit integrated from the early 90's.

Unless I am really trying to crank some power music, that little integrated is actually more clear and detailed, a trait I value highly.

(btw, I have a good powered sub to go w/ my 1.2's. The maggies don't go below 40 hz or so)

Audio is a strange hobby lol. Sometimes unusual combinations click. I personally think, it comes down to simplicity. The Audiolab just has 2 pairs of amp transistors compared to 10 per channel in the old set up. I'm more than happy, unless I am really pushing the system which, let's face it, is maybe 5% of my listening time.
/ optimally proportioned triangles are our friends


 

Yup. I'm really really loving this setup now, posted on May 24, 2016 at 22:48:02
Enchantment1.6s
Audiophile

Posts: 902
Location: Portland Oregon
Joined: August 10, 2002
 It does all the audiophile things quite well and it's extremely engaging to listen to.




My Photos

 

The point is it allows me to actually USE and ENJOY my 1.6s again, posted on May 24, 2016 at 22:55:46
Enchantment1.6s
Audiophile

Posts: 902
Location: Portland Oregon
Joined: August 10, 2002
 Otherwise they'd still be sitting and collecting dust.

I don't have the financial freedom to buy gear of any kind cheap or no. My dear husband apparently agonized over this decision for years before taking the plunge. It was truly a wonderful gift he gave to me and I love it not just for that, but because I find the music sounds quite enjoyable, more so than I remember all my Ayre gear sounding.




My Photos

 

I ran 1.6 with great success using a Manley Stingray so no you are not crazy ;^), posted on May 26, 2016 at 16:39:15
PhilJ
Audiophile

Posts: 2826
Joined: January 20, 2002
 ...

 

RE: understood. NT, posted on May 27, 2016 at 06:31:41
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 I don't know that he gets the full 90 db sensitivity but his XO is not spaced by an octave like the original so can produce more midrange energy, and the bracing bumps up the bass output - particularly reduces bass compression.

I measured 2-3 db difference going from the passive TIV XO to passive line level 1st order symmetrical measured at 100hz or so.

 

RE: understood. NT, posted on May 27, 2016 at 07:10:48
Davey
 I explained the technical aspects of his claim years back on this forum.

Switching from a passive speaker-level crossover to a line-level crossover is a completely different topic.

Dave.

 

RE: 50w powering gunned 1.6s, am I crazy?, posted on May 28, 2016 at 11:06:42
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 The Audiolab is a really nice piece and an amazing performer in its price range in the day. A favorite.Loved it on KEF 104.2.

I don't think it is enough to get the higher volume even when coupled with a subwoofer. You probably could do more output by raising the XO to 80hz. That might cover your needs more fully, as both speaker distortion and power demand are still high in the 40-80 hz range. IIRC there is a published THD measurement of the 1.7 playing 40hz at 95db with 30 odd % THD, which goes down to single digits at 80hz 95 db.

 

RE: understood. NT, posted on May 28, 2016 at 11:30:22
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 IIRC I think the PG XO lets the bass panel operate significantly higher up - by an octave or so and at 1st order Which is why I think he gets higher output at the same power in the midrange.

 

RE: understood. NT, posted on May 28, 2016 at 20:01:46
Davey
 It doesn't help that Magnepan specifies the baseline sensitivity of their speakers with a 2 watt input at a single frequency. (Much confusion and incorrect relative comparisons result.)

I explained all of this and the Magnestand crossover "re-alignment" configuration years ago.

You do remember, yes? :)

Dave.

 

RE: The Sprout has some bass EQ in it, posted on July 1, 2021 at 22:52:43
elizabethjohanson92@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 1
Location: NY
Joined: July 1, 2021
 Some gifts are meant forever, like this gift from her husband was worth remembering for her. Just like this I have gifted my younger brother his favorite headphones as a gift from Gifts For You Now Coupons and I think I will also get a gift worth remembering.

 

Page processed in 0.032 seconds.

[ Top Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]